AMA Natoinal Hare n Hound Superstition

[Brain171]

I raced this race last year and overalled the novice class, is any one else racing this weekend, I am.

[Kritter]

pretty much a joke last year so you probably wont get too many people other then people chasing national points down there.

[Brain171]

yeah I know what you mean, last year was just a speed run, and I lost the course three times, should that be happening on a National??

[Kritter]

no...it does happen but its not supposed to happen. The riding down there sucks and thats why they cant put on a good national there.

[desertratt]

well freeeway or not i am doing it. last year was there frist one so cut them a little slack. lol! i figure do the national on saturday and the hbmc race on sunday.

[Tony_Barraza]

Eric-

Sounds like you're going to be a busy guy this weekend! Wish I didn't already have plans for the weekend. I'd be out there to check it out and cheer you on.

Best of luck, have a great time and haul a$$!!

[Racbaja]

Since it is 10 miles from my home I will be there. I will be in a white bronco with RDC sticker in back. I know the course is supposed to be closed, but can spectators go on the course during this event? I would like to go on the back side of Superstition and watch the bikes come through the technical section.
www.bajacoalition.net

[Vtr_Racing]

well freeeway or not i am doing it. last year was there frist one so cut them a little slack. lol! i figure do the national on saturday and the hbmc race on sunday.

Decided not to do the Worcs race in Havasu?

[stuckthrottle]

no...it does happen but its not supposed to happen. The riding down there sucks and thats why they cant put on a good national there.

are you guys talking about the superstition hills area by plaster city?

The endless whoops there rule.

[Harpo]

This Weekend or next?

[Racbaja]

It would be nice to post the winners name but there has been a protest. From what I heard Destry was the first bike through start finish and stopped at the flag, Factory team rider (I wont even attempt to butcher his name) did the same thing. The guy with the flag told both riders that the official finish was when they rolled through the tent with the transponder reciever, Honda bike started his bike first and rolled through giving him the win. Destry and team Kawasaki was furious and protested. This is all second hand info, so take it for what it is. There was a rider that had to be life flighted out right at start/finish possibly paralized, Plunkett racing sends our prayers. The course was poorly marked and the quads I was pitting for reported being lost many times.

[stuckthrottle]

From http://www.dirtrider.com/news/141_0405_superstition_hareandhound/
By Mark Kariya

Former AMA National Hare & Hound champion Destry Abbott has suffered through some bad luck in this year's AMA/FMF Racing National Hare & Hound Series, chalking up two DNFs and a disappointing - for him - fourth.
Destry Abbott posted a clear victory at round six of the AMA/FMF Racing National Hare & Hound Series, the first time for a National in AMA District 38 since 1986. It marked his third win in the series, which takes a break now for the summer.

On the other hand, he's also won his share of races, and he picked up victory number three of the season at round six of the series, held in AMA District 38 (Imperial and San Diego Counties), the first time for a National in the area since 1986, according to local moto-historians. That moved him up to third in series points (after throwing out his two worst results) as they break for summer, though he's still more than a race's worth of points behind series leader and fellow Team Green star David Pearson, runner-up on the day.

Russell Pearson crossed the finish line third on his Montclair Yamaha YZ450F, but he was later disqualified for allegedly risking the safety of officials at the finish with reckless riding. He planned to appeal that decision, meaning the race's results will remain unofficial until that's decided.

Pending the outcome of the appeal, third would go to local fast guy Aaron Tuck on his Precision Concepts XR650R in his first race back since breaking a collarbone at the SCORE San Felipe 250 just over two months before. Team Green's Brian Brown will be listed as fourth overall for the time being with KTM's Joey Lanza rounding out the top five.






Pearson's DQ was dropped because they waited too long to tell him.

[Brain171]

Has any one heard about the results, if so could you post them please. I think I did pretty well in the amateur class. Thats too bad for that guy off the start on the expert line. Does any one now what happened to him?

[choppekx]

Either Abbott or Russ Pearson got first, Hengeveld got third, David Pearson fourth, Kendal Normann and Mike Metzger were battling for what I think was for fifth and sixth places, after that I am not sure.

The previous post was from last years race!

[stuckthrottle]

oh sorry bout that. I knew that Aaron had crashed at last years san felipe and when I was reading and posting the last post, i thought he did it again this year.

again, sorry. :|

[desertratt]

well it was not as good as i had hoped for. frist off the bike stalled on the start which put me in the dust right the bat. then just as i moved out of the dust i found the only mud puddle out there. which was a small pond that i barily made it across. then ended up getting lost 3 times on the frist loop. then on the second loop i almost went head on with a long travel buggey going the opposit direction on the corse. i gave up and just rode the corse for the finish. figured i would just save my self and bike for the hbmc race in lucerne. that race wasnt good to me either. got about 5 miles in and broke a tie rod.

[Blue Man]

Super-flat-tition is NOT a place for a national, the only reason it is down there is so one person can spend time in San Diego. I will not elaberate on that, but the clubs that put this race on should have their stuff together. What if 400 plus riders showed up to race, they would freak. California Hare and Hound racing belongs in Lucerne Valley. Why cant D38 follow the same set of rules as D37 and the districts in Idaho and Utah? Last year it took the leaders just over an hour to finish 80 miles, that is a waste of time. I hope D38 makes a successfull come back and I will for sure race their events to get ready for BITD and BAJA.

[Hammerhead]

Yes. If they had 400 they would freak out. I think we all would.

[Kritter]

I guess nobody listened to me about what the national was going to be like.

The only people i ever hear from that say that riding area has good riding is people who dont race desert... Anybody who races desert would cover that place and conquer everything in half a day...yes you could cover lucerne in half a day but I bet all the money in the world that it couldnt be conquered in a day...I bet it couldnt be conquered in a month! There is some of the rowdiest stuff in Lucerne that most clubs are too weak to even think about putting in a race becuase nobody will show up the next year.

I agree that Lucerne is THE place for national H&H in California...bottom line.

[DezGuy]

I guess nobody listened to me about what the national was going to be like.

The only people i ever hear from that say that riding area has good riding is people who dont race desert... Anybody who races desert would cover that place and conquer everything in half a day...yes you could cover lucerne in half a day but I bet all the money in the world that it couldnt be conquered in a day...I bet it couldnt be conquered in a month! There is some of the rowdiest stuff in Lucerne that most clubs are too weak to even think about putting in a race becuase nobody will show up the next year.

I agree that Lucerne is THE place for national H&H in California...bottom line.

I do all my testing and training at or near Superstition. This is the best area there is other than barstow to train for Score or BITD. Your right about D37 being the best place for a H&H but for a true Desert race you cant beat the D38 area. Desert racing is Fast look at the finish times and speeds of the top racers in BITD and Score.

[Kritter]

SCORE and D37 are two different beasts. BITD has a couple good bike races(Laughlin being one) but most of them are like score races...fire roads.

Any course that can fit a 96 inch wide TT is not a good course or even challenging for a dirtbike. Baja, vegas to reno, etc.. is challenging due to logisitics and the speed they carry, but anybody could go out there and putt around the course on a quad or bike granted it would be a long putt but its easy terrain...not just anybody could ride a D37 race it takes some skill to navigate the terrain most clubs lay out.

A true desert race on a bike is Lucerne...and thats why all the big dogs in score are out racing D37 every weekend...and like Jamie said of his brother Johnny (Cambell)..."hes getting too old to race D37" but hes not too old to race SCORE/BITD

How many trophy trucks are going to fit through this?...a REAL desert race.

http://www.animalhousedesigns.net/DMC05/dmccanyon05/expertdmc/images/IMG_6349.jpg

or this?

http://www.animalhousedesigns.net/DMC05/dmcfinishline/images/IMG_6692.jpg

Im not going to argue about down south riding area for training for score/bitd but it has no business being on the National H&H roster...

Fire roads(anythign that can fit a TT is a fire road in my opinion even if it has 4 foot whoops) test how big of balls one has and also people get seriously injured and thats why the trend of tight and technical has become more of the norm for D37...nobody likes to see people get hurt and hi speeds/easy terrain hurts people worse then low speeds and nasty terrain.

[BSchlimme]

...a REAL desert race.

Looks more like a "mountain" race than a "desert" race to me. :)

The deserts I grew up riding in never had those types of rocks.

Some like to put over rocks and some like to fly wide-open over whoops. To each is own but hard to say one is better than the other.

Depends who you ask.

[Kritter]

Depends who you ask.

I agree....but we are talking bikes, and National H&H's...where wide open desert is garbage.

Those pics are from the Desert MC national which is prob the hardest HH on the roster but has been pussified(although still tough) for the last 2 or so years because of whiners.

[DezGuy]

I agree....but we are talking bikes, and National H&H's...where wide open desert is garbage.

Those pics are from the Desert MC national which is prob the hardest HH on the roster but has been pussified(although still tough) for the last 2 or so years because of whiners.

I agree with everything you say except those pics are not a Desert race. D37 is more enduro racing than anything. Nothing at all wrong with it but its not Desert racing.

[stuckthrottle]

I understand my opinion doesn't mean a thing, but, to me, this is dezert racing.

http://stuck-throttle.com/peektures/z23.jpg

This isn't:
http://stuck-throttle.com/peektures/z24.jpg


Just because it takes place in a certain location (desert) doesn't mean it's that type of race. Does it?

[Kritter]

That is the bomb of a desert race...it narrows into single track and 2 track...how else are you going to start 500 people?

Location does matter and that is why down south does not have the ability to put on a good desert race...the best off road racers in the US race the nationals...it is supposed to be tough for them. You throw in some super gnarly terrain that takes all your energy and then you give them a valley to get a break...and then do it again.

[Kritter]

Do you happen to have that picture in hi res that I could have rights to?

[Kritter]

Enduros are back east and north...with trees, bushes, mud and forest. Our enduros do not even compare to back east.

An enduro is a time keeping even as well.

[stuckthrottle]

Nah, that awesome bomb start image is by Walter Meayers Edwards for National Geographic. I stumbled onto it (the image) a couple years ago while working on a video graphics project.
You can purchase a dupe or poster or even rights to it through gettyimages.
http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/classes/FrameSet.aspx?&UQR=zfgzcp&pk=4&source=front&lightboxView=1&txtSearch=motorcycle%20racing&chkLicensed=on&chkRoyaltyFree=on&selImageType=7

[Blue Man]

Don't get anything wrong here, the rock sections you see are only in about 3 spots and only last for a short time. I took a digger on the first loop of DMC, gave up a radiator in the pits to a club member that needed points and can not comment on how bad the 60 mile second loop of DMC national was. I know if you finish you have truely concured something. SCORE and BITD is a series where you can sit on the seat if needed and finish. D38 is this type of racing, you can race a 200 mile race on a bike and not be tired. I have talked to both Abbott and Pearson in the past and they both say the tougher the better, you simply can not make anything in D38 tough. I have said I will go down to ride D38 to train for BITD, that is what it is for. I would love to all the D38 guys to make the trek and see a real H&H race first hand by entering it and riding. There is a reason a D37 race gets 300 to 400 entrys and D38 gets 100. There is a totally BS reason there is a National down there, it sucks, will it be chcnged? no. See you some time this year.

[DezGuy]

Don't get anything wrong here, the rock sections you see are only in about 3 spots and only last for a short time. I took a digger on the first loop of DMC, gave up a radiator in the pits to a club member that needed points and can not comment on how bad the 60 mile second loop of DMC national was. I know if you finish you have truely concured something. SCORE and BITD is a series where you can sit on the seat if needed and finish. D38 is this type of racing, you can race a 200 mile race on a bike and not be tired. I have talked to both Abbott and Pearson in the past and they both say the tougher the better, you simply can not make anything in D38 tough. I have said I will go down to ride D38 to train for BITD, that is what it is for. I would love to all the D38 guys to make the trek and see a real H&H race first hand by entering it and riding. There is a reason a D37 race gets 300 to 400 entrys and D38 gets 100. There is a totally BS reason there is a National down there, it sucks, will it be chcnged? no. See you some time this year.

If you can race 200 miles in D38 and not be tired your going way to slow. I watched Steve Henge. Fall off his bike at the Honda van after the National and two guys had to help him get his bike up on the stand. I am not saying its tougher than D37 its not. D37 is much more technical. D38 is fast but its also full of whoops and just flat out wears you out.

[Blue Man]

You are correct, that was not a good example of the two places. All I am saying is that place is not a place for a National, and I think most agree. Can you tell me what the race time was for Pearson and Abbott? I would have been there but my club had their race weekend at the same time.

[Blue Man]

Here is the entries for Desert MC- 536, the Sidewinders National had 142. There were almost as many DNF and DQs at DMC as there were total entries at the Sidwinders race. It cost the club money to have this event, doesn't seem smart to me?

[Kritter]

" There is a reason a D37 race gets 300 to 400 entrys and D38 gets 100"
Exactly.

That place will never hold any good races other then car races...

Big racers dont like whoops...they like nasty technical gnarly **** that nobody can ride through and hence...nobody can make whoops. If you look at all the pros training loops...it is all gnarly...there isnt much if any wide open full throttle stuff. There was an article with all the big dogs in off roads favorite training spots and they showed pictures of the gnarly ****...the cover of the magazine was Ty Davis' down hill right by his house and it was def gnarly...editor of the mag who is an avid rider was bull dogging it down the hill!

yes we understand you like the riding down there...lots of people do. It is just not a place for Nationals...or even hare and hounds for that matter. Fast open whoops are score racing...BItd racing. Not nationals racing.

It would be like hosting a mx national at a backyard track made for 50s instead of glen helen...yeah the 50 track is cool and may offer a good work out but its no place for a national.

[choppekx]

You guys keep talking about why H&H race should be held in D37 and not D38, if I am not mistaken D37 already has three national H&H's why do they need a fourth. I thought the reason they called it a national was because it was supposed to be on different types of terain through out the Nation or at least the western U.S. Otherwise it would be a regional championship right like D37 and D38. We already have those and if you run all of the H&H races in Lucerne then it is just that a D37 regional champ and not a national champ at all. I am not trying to say that one is better than the other, they are just different, and that is the point behind a national series.

On another note it may be possibale that a D-37 event draws more people is that is closer to where more people live. I would rather drive an hour or two to go to a race than 4 or 5 wouldn't you.

And finally there are trails out at D-38 that are rougher and nastier than the ones that were apperantly used during the H&H, but they were not used and I don't have the slightest idea why not, but that is the way it is. I personally spoke with some that raced it, most thought that it was fun, but the marking sucked, although some said last years was better, but again poor marking.

Most of those clubs you are comparing sidewinders to are a lot older clubs with a lot more experience. Sidewinders is only a couple of years old. Maybee they should let the Los Ancionos (sp), a D-38 club, put on the race next year, I bet it would be more technical.

[Vtr_Racing]

Different terrain in both areas and different types of riding. i dont mind a rocky technical course and have raced plenty of D37 over the years. I was never all that thrilled about having to carry my bike over some of the stuff. I am not complaining all. Did BITD`s first Laughlin Hare Scrambles many years ago when they allowed 3 wheelers/ATV in it and that was a bitchen course. Did Whiskey Petes Hare and Hound which was an awesome course with lots of technical stuff in it. D37 has always been very tough. I love it!!!!!!!!

[Kritter]

D37 National HH are supposed to be tough, really tough...bottom line. Nothing down south is tough. Why is this even a discussion? Thats why there are so many in lucerne, the big racers love how tough they are and they dont complain...whereas they complain how lame they are down south, just ask them.

A couple guys in my club race all the nationals and they said the out of state ones except for one are as tough and as much fun as lucerne. The one out of state one that wasnt fun was exactly like the down south enduro...drag race through sand dunes and whoops.

[gosouth]

[QUOTE=Kritter] The only people i ever hear from that say that riding area has good riding is people who dont race desert... Anybody who races desert would cover that place and conquer everything in half a day...

The Superstition area has good riding and I have raced both of them (Lucerne/ Super.). Just because you haven't found the good riding doesn't mean that it is not there. There is not near as much national caliber stuff as Lucerne but there is more than enough there to entertain someone for a day or two.

Craig

[sirhk100]

Kritter, have you ever ridden Plaster/Superstition? Just curious...

[Blue Man]

May this is not a case of WHERE the event should be held, but by which club. This is going to be very direct and to the point. The Sidewinders have proven that in two years they can not hold a national caliber event. The course was too easy, the marking was a joke, the results where messed up because they did not understand the rules. All the other clubs that put on a national are large, have experiance, lay out killer races and put in a lot of time. When a old district 37 club re-surfaces, they start with a Euro Scramble and in a few years maybe will move on to a Desert Scamble. D37 has clubs now that put on two races in one weekend, and do it well. The first year the national was in D38, my club tried to get a national and it was given to D38? We have over 150 members.

[stuckthrottle]

Are the Sidewinders the only club doing D38 events?

[Blue Man]

There are a few clubs down there now.

[stuckthrottle]

Thanks Blue,
Yeah I was at Motoworld today and picked up a race flyer for a Roadrunner O/R Racing Fud Memorial Race.
So how do these new events compare to the old Fud races?

[Blue Man]

I just read that the Sidewinders club is no longer a club. I would be willing to bet that they ran out of money, it is very expensive to host a National. There are still three clubs down there and they might step up.