Whats up with HONDA team A in 2005 SCORE?

[stuckthrottle]

The previously undefeated team has yet to win a race in the SCORE series this year. Their consistent high placing finishes (2 2nd's) im sure places them in first for the year end overall championship points but still, what's going on? Now if only we could get some green open class monsters out in baja, to mix it up even more. :cool:
Also, being that hard core KTM Jimmy Lewis (and former Team A red rider) is the new Dirt Rider Magazine editor, I was sure that they would have this huge story on KTM's incredible upset at San Felipe, on the following Dirt Rider issue, nothing.


could any of this be attributed to the black box system and the D2G 'incident'?
/rant

[Vtr_Racing]

could any of this be attributed to the black box system and the D2G 'incident'?
/rant
Lol, some great riders out there stepping up in a big way! Once again, D37 riders dominated. I dont think you could write this stuff for a movie any better.

[Blue Man]

After three perfect years and many wins before that it is bound to happen, a few minutes of down time and you get second place. No one in SCORE has ever done what Johnny and Steve have done, no one.

The KTM factory could care less about racing in America or Mexico, the KTM team is a Ralley team that races here because they live here and for fun. The members still try to win but will not risk it all. The KTM team is two guys off the Honda B team and a ex-Kawi rider. They race BITD out of a pickup truck?

Kawi will never race Mexico again after DH got killed.

They will return to the norm, and with Kendal Norman riding with them watch out.

Now it can be anyones game, I think it is cool and I know members off all the teams, it is cool to see some change, hear stories, and learn what happened each race.

[stuckthrottle]

I agree with you. Also, I'm sure Mouse too?, but I know Childress has always been way fast.

Kawi will never race Mexico again after DH got killed
About 3 years ago PRICE racing had a couple of KX500's out at SF250. They where planning on racing but they DNS'd. It definately wasn't a team green effort though.
Then, wasn't team green at both BITD baja Mex races?
The tragic Hamel accident took Team Green out of baja, BUT, prior to 95? they where (for, I don't how many years) undefeated.

The only thing for sure is that open class racing is getting more exciting!

[Ryno]

Mikey Childress has always been fast, just never got his break, until now. He's a young gun too.

The first time I saw Day in the Dirt, you can see Mouse's passion for two wheels. He's scary fast! Put these two guys that are hungry, together, and you have a win.

Honda has nothing to be ashamed of. 3 years of domination is incredible. Campbell and Henge will still be "the guys" to beat in the desert.

[Kritter]

Honda A team gave B team most of the secret spots ...that Honda B team went onto ride for KTM (Grider/Blais) with most of the A team secrets but not all...werent even allowed to use the same radio freq during the races.

Im sure those secrets have been shared with Mikey as well since Chris Blais is freinds with Mike and also the engine builder of the Mike/Mike Baja 500 bike.

Now that all the cool fast lines are common knowledge to these fast guys...it all comes down to who has the biggest balls and skills to hold it open for the long haul.

The 1000 this year should be a good race.

Mikey is fast...as long as he keeps the rubber side down.

[bufeo]

... . The KTM factory could care less about racing in America or Mexico, the KTM team is a Ralley team that races here because they live here and for fun. The members still try to win but will not risk it all. The KTM team is two guys off the Honda B team and a ex-Kawi rider. They race BITD out of a pickup truck?...

I've forwarded this on to Andy and Chris. Thought they might get a chuckle or two out of it. Especially the bit about not risking "it all".

[Blue Man]

I only ment this is not the first priority of the KTM Factory Team, I know every race means everything to both Chris and Andy. I did not mean to down play their efforts at all. Sorry for the way that came out. I spoke with Chris after the TT 250 and was at Henges house yesterday, both have the same out look, that's racing.

Just for the record, isn't the KTM focus on winning Dakar with an American??

[Blue Man]

Then, wasn't team green at both BITD baja Mex races?

You are correct and come to think about it TG was at the 03 Tecate Hare Scrambles.

The only thing for sure is that open class racing is getting more exciting![/QUOTE]
This is open class racing at its finest.

[captainuno]

Truth is the Honda A team was plagued with mechanical problems on both of the last 2 Baja races. The 250 with a rear sprocket loosening up, Johnny had to baby it into one of their pits and then in the 500, down time in the pits for a radiator replacement. But that is racing, it is what it is. Did this cost them the wins, maybe, maybe not, we will never know, but it sure didn't help them. They will be back and as fast as ever.
Mikey & Mouse deserve the win, they rode hard and a flawless race, it was their day. The way they moved through the pack, I don't think they we going to be denied. The top 4 teams could win any Baja race on any given day. The "NEW" Honda B team will be a force in future races, Kendall & Robby and young and hungry. Robby overalled our Sweethearts Kiss race here in D38 the week before baja, his first race back from breaking his leg 6 months ago. Kendall also did well the week before at Gorman from what I have read on the 37 board. Chris & Andy, what can you say that hasn't already been said for these 2. Anyone who races Dakar has what it takes.
What does all this mean, well as I see it, it makes for some awsome racing, best of luck to all the teams and be safe.

[dustyhusky]

i find it really offensive to read that some imply Honda cheated in Baja!
Thats outragious.

Honda A team is just having a bad luck streak. Remeber in 2002 when Johnny killed the cow and took out his front end and still won by 20 minutes? He just had lots of good luck in all those races--and he is having less luck right now. Thats all it is.

Those black box' s dont have anything to do with it. Look at this past 500. Honda wasnt penalized for anything--proving that they dont cheat!

:rolleyes:

[Chase 2]

Let’s see, the whole A/B team deal started with the Husqvarna back in the 70’s. Didn’t it?? Mayes, Bakken, Wallingsford, Johnson, Roesler, oh yeah even Mr. Personality himself, Harden. Who (of those old enough) could forget Al Baker on the first Honda Thumpers?? Honda came and went due Bruce Ogleve’s (sp?) perception of Honda’s chances of winning were. When Japan wouldn’t let the American teams race the CR 500 against the KX 500, Honda pulled out rather than get beat on the XR 600. Bottom line was in Honda Japan’s eyes the XR was off road and CR was motocross never crossover the two brands. I digress. Bottom line is the over all count to date: Honda 15, Husky 11, Kaw 9, Yam 2.

Really the biggest deal here isn’t so much Honda vs KTM (or who ever) it’s more of privateer vs the factory teams. To me what this shows is that there is some other limiting factor other than factory equipment. Used to be the factory guys were the only ones who had the best equipment and the ability to spend weeks pre-running. There obviously is a lot of talent and a lot of very fast riders right now. The factory teams used to dominate in the Trophy Trucks also, now look, there are no factory teams at all. Could it be a sign of things to come?

[Kritter]

i find it really offensive to read that some imply Honda cheated in Baja!
Thats outragious.

Honda A team is just having a bad luck streak. Remeber in 2002 when Johnny killed the cow and took out his front end and still won by 20 minutes? He just had lots of good luck in all those races--and he is having less luck right now. Thats all it is.

Those black box' s dont have anything to do with it. Look at this past 500. Honda wasnt penalized for anything--proving that they dont cheat!

:rolleyes:

Quit taking soil samples on that husky bud...go watch D2G to see it first hand. Those who dont believe it was happening are in denial.

Talk to Andy Grider and Chris Blais who were the B team before signing on with KTM they can tell you stories about it all. I bet Honda is kicking themselves for letting their B team riders become KTM's A team riders.

[dustyhusky]

Quit taking soil samples on that husky bud...go watch D2G to see it first hand. Those who dont believe it was happening are in denial.

Talk to Andy Grider and Chris Blais who were the B team before signing on with KTM they can tell you stories about it all. I bet Honda is kicking themselves for letting their B team riders become KTM's A team riders.

I read that thing on TT last year about the Honda cheating deal-from the guy 'irondud' or whatever the spelling is, and i've heard Blaise's mom go on about A team silliness, and i've seen D2G, and i've heard lots of stories about Honda and all that--i've even been passed by Honda A team (but oddly enough i never saw the bike go by!) but come on--thats all just jealousy and hype. No way Honda would ever really cheat. If word got out--it would be a disaster for those employees like that Ogrevie and that guy Chuck Miller. For sure they would get fired from Honda if Honda really did even half the stuff they are accused of, wouldnt they? I mean -- corporate would have to fire them--or be vulnerable to lawsuits and damages and all that -- Honda cutting 20 miles of race course? Crazy! Honda airlifting parts with a helicopter? Swooping down and dusting out the competition? Its just so hard to believe they would act so dangerously and discredit themselves so much!? Could those individuals really be that out of control? I am all for factories racing in Baja--maybe Honda should just get new race managers down there and at least the perception of cheating would be diminished...
As for Husqvarna's legacy in Baja-well frankly i think they invented baja cheating-remember before their reign Baja racing was just 'make your own route' and when it went to 'follow the course' the guys in the know knew where to go...it took Honda some time to figure out the shortcuts.
Maybe with the blackbox's more serious teams will go down there and give it a shot. WIth the changes more competition should follow. If XR's Only can do it, why not Zip Ty or ESP or Baja Designs or Temecula or even a couple fast guys on a Husky--i'll pit for them!
Soil samples?
Dude--we are gopher hunting!

[Chase 2]

Back in 1980, the 500 had a so called “open section” after going over the Summit, pitting on Laguna Salada and heading on towards Tres Posos. Prior to pre-riding Bruce Ogolvie, shared his preferred line with my team (we were on a 250 Bultaco). The Hondas were of such a higher quality, we couldn’t use the same section at the speeds Honda could, and it actually ended up slower than the more “conventional” route. So one man's short cut may be anothers disaster. Even D2G showed that the beach line wasn't the hot tip.

The professionalism of the Honda team is unsurpassed by any team. Anyone who doubts it, doesn’t know anyone on the team nor has spent time with the team. Now, as far as individuals on the team and their reported unsanctioned actions, well that’s a different matter.

Who was pitting the winning team at the last 500? Were they totally independent, or were they using a combo of their own guys and the paid for Honda pit support?

[dustyhusky]

Honda--professionalism?
SO its OK to race on the beach?
That was the tip if the iceberg.
Honda will be lucky to win 1 in 5 races from now on.
They "won" everything by HUGE time during the last few years....and professionalism had NOTHING to do with it.

We pulled into pits 1-3 AHEAD of Team Honda....those aholes just draggggggeeeeeddddddd theire feeeeeeeetttttttt aannddddd slllllloooooowwwwwwlllllly dumped out gas. It was incredible. Its not just one or two dudes.

Ogrevie should be in jail for fraud.

I watched Casey Folks GO OFF on Ogrevie at the Nevada 1000 just a few weeks ago--yep--they where cheating. Honda couldnt work on both A and B bikes at the same time at the impound at the end of the day...so that fat phqr just cheats and helps out B team behind the finsih line--while the rest of us just sit in the heat and wait for our chase trucks to set up....

He's the least respected dude in the dez. A complete fraud. For Hondas sake they need to sack his ***. How does he even show up in that little white truck of his? No shame? Everyone just laughs at him....creepy.

Let me ask again--so its OK to race on the beach?
...and thats just the tip of the iceberg.

Talk to Chris Blaise's mom about it sometime!

[MIKEY CHILDRESS]

Hey, Guys Its Mike Childress
This is a very good subject! Cheating is part of every sport and always will be everyone wants that little advantage. As for Johnny Cheating check out the movie! Even caught on film people still think that he doesnt cheat. Well I hate to break it to you guys but thats why all of the bike guys have to use the black box now because of the movie. But it wanst just Johnny it was all of us before the black boxes it was free game who could find the best line(beach line in the movie that was a good one) I kinda like it but at the same time it sucked cause Johnny knew Mexico better then me so I didnt know all the good lines. But now with the Boxes racing is back to a fair game. We used them for the 1st time at the Baja 500 this year and most all of the teams stayed on course and stayed a 60mph on the Pavement. But there was a couple of people that didnt follow the rules and nothing happend to them. So where does Sal draw the line and start the dq's. I had a team make up a large amount of time on me in the last 100 miles of the race and I know that I wanst going that slow. I had Sal look at there sheets to see where they went and yes they had Cheated but all that Sal said was well they didnt catch you so whats the problem!
I think that Sal using the black boxes on the bikes is awesome cause there wont be anymore of the huge cheating that gets you in the lead. All that we have to do is have Sal make an Example of one of the Factory teams when they do cheat and dq them. Casey Folks doesnt care who you are or how much money that you have if you cheated you done. Sal needs to do the same and if you Cheated and you get caught your going to pay the fine. I really hope that this has cleared up some things for people who dont bealive its really happening. Cause it does and everyone has been doing and if they say they havent they are lieing. But I rode the 500 100% on the course and made it to the finish 1st and didnt have to cheat to do it. The black boxes have changed Baja forever in a good way.

[Blue Man]

Well said Mike, most find it unthinkable for any one to cheat. Henge is a personal friend and things do happen. Some call it desert savvy and some loose a race because of it. Once again congrats to the Baja 500 victory, you deserve it, when you told me you just hauled arse, at XRs when I was on a parts run, the look on your face said it all. Great job.

PS Ill be over for some more parts for my prerunner, we are now 3rd in points in BITD in the open class, if we win you need to put in a good word with Dempsey. See you soon.

Andrew-HBMC

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Sal said was well they didnt catch you so whats the problem!
That statement sums up the problem! The same can be said of the Tech side of the rule enforcement. Half the vehicles racing, especially in the restricted truck classes, have major (cheating) equipment violations that go unchecked.

[Tuck111]

this has been going on for so long with whatever factory. The difference has always been that the factory guys have always had the luxory of spending a week or two prerunning and 'knowing" where they are going. So us other guys who cant spend as much time dont know the good lines-cheating or not. Fact is we have all taken some line that were at least questionable. So I agree with what Mike said, maybe this will level the field. As far as equipment goes anybody can have a bike like Johnny.

[SPROCKET]

Wasn't Finding The Best Line Part Of Racing Baja? Since I Can Remeber
Every Time We Preran We Were Allways Looking Off Cliffs, Around Fence Lines And Any Were That Made Is Easier But This Was Because We Knew The Other Teams Were Doing The Same. Right. Black Box=playing Field No More Wondering How That Other Team Made Up 20 Min In 40 Miles.
Black Box The Best Thing To Hit Baja Since Fish Tacos.
That My Dos Centavos.