John Markings Car??????????

[dezertracer230]

Was that chet huffman in marking car at the baja cup challange?????

[havahockey]

They purchased the car from Marking.

[Mikey]

A birdy told me that it is getting a Chevy TT body put on it as we speak.

[zjohnson]

I made it out to the race about 15 minutes after it started, I wanted to see that car run, but unfortunately I heard he broke the gkn plunging axle on it. Too bad, its a nice car, would be nice as a TT.

[scoobs]

What happened to Marking?

[pappawheely]

The car looked good in warmups. They also had a guest driver. ;)

[Dezertpilot]

Is that going to be a new trend in off road racing? IRS buggies with 37's and a truck body? It seems that every TT that is IRS really never does all that well. Besides Ivan winning alot and then the Letner TT winning some here and there, it seems like they are always breaking. Maybe this is more of a full proof way to have an IRS TT that can compete that is lighter than the traditional TT?

[John_Bitting]

Is that going to be a new trend in off road racing? IRS buggies with 37's and a truck body? It seems that every TT that is IRS really never does all that well. Besides Ivan winning alot and then the Letner TT winning some here and there, it seems like they are always breaking. Maybe this is more of a full proof way to have an IRS TT that can compete that is lighter than the traditional TT?

The truck body thing has nothing to do with IRS rears. It has to do with starting positions. A couple of years ago we had 3 or 4 TT's at the states races and the class ones could pass them if they were faster, now with 30+ TT's in order to not start 50th or worse in a class one, they are mounting bodies and hoping to get a draw in the top couple of spots.

[Jerry Zaiden]

The car looked good in warmups. They also had a guest driver. ;)


Lol...Rhys. Or in Baja on the car he was driving "Phys Millen" :)

[Dezertpilot]

I see John but now they are not racing class 1 now they are racing TT. They wont be able to claim class honours in class 1 now only TT if they win. I think they need to come up with a better idea than putting a truck body on their buggy. I know that this subject has come up before so Ill only say that they need to have some sort of qualifying like in BITD does. I know their is alot of ways to go around it, someone in SCORE needs to get more creative I guess. Ok not deviating away from the original post, cars/trucks seem to change hands more often these days. I know the saying, "Win on Sunday and sell on Monday" but if yer car is a winner why wouldnt u wanna keep it and try to win more races? Ok Ill shut up and say that the car is one of my faviorte buggies out there. I wish the entire Huffman team luck in the upcoming 2006 season. Oh and is Whelchel still a hired gun for Team Huffman?

[WFODAN]

What type of fuel are those Klaus ones running? :D



Not sure , but I hear they get " TUUUUNED UP " quite often ...

[desertbull]

What type of fuel are those Klaus ones running? :D

I've heard rumors that F&L offers "Klausoline" this time of year - its rated at 500 Octane and can cause engine failure on all non-Klausoline rated motors...

LOL....

[John_Bitting]

Alright alright, I get it.. I was obviously on the phone with you know who.. Moving on now.

[movindirt]

Sorry John, I was just thinking of the beer joke that could come out of that. Not trying to ping on your spelling.

Anyhow what does this mean for Marking? Is he building a new car? And can someone from the Huffman team confirm the addition of a TT body to the car they purchased from Marking.. And if they are adding a TT body lets see some pics..

[Bryan_D]

Isnt this the same car that he has wanted to change from rear to mid-engine and was going to do that? I thought he wanted a different setup than what he was used to.

[Mikey]

And can someone from the Huffman team confirm the addition of a TT body to the car they purchased from Marking.. And if they are adding a TT body lets see some pics..

You calling me a liar? (just kidding) I got it from a reliable source. Just don't want to get anybody in trouble if it is top secret.

[Cali_F350_XLT]

Isnt this the same car that he has wanted to change from rear to mid-engine and was going to do that? I thought he wanted a different setup than what he was used to.

Didnt Marking and his team just finish moving the motor back even farther before the SD CORR races? And now Huffman wants to move it back?

-Markus-

[WFODAN]

I believe the car was origionally a mid engine , and was changed to a rear engine setup by Marking .

[Don Juan]

The Car was origanally a mid engine and now it is a rear engine. It was rear engine for both corr races in chula vista but i dont believe it had the plunging axles on it when he raced in San diego so I dont know why Huffman would be running them?

[John_Bitting]

John switched back and forth between the GKN axles, Jeff Quinns'(McKenzies) plunging axles and then standard axles. I know with the non plunging he would have to limit the travel more then with the plunging. But have no idea why or when the changes occured. We filmed with him twice, once with the GKN or McKenzies, not sure?(dp3) and once with the non plunging(DP4?) and I could not tell a difference in the way the car performed from the outside. Probably not the case inside.

[Ryan_P]

I believe with the plunging axles, they were allowing 3-4'' more travel out of the rear if I'm not mistaken. From some of the guys on Quinn's team telling me first hand, through the rough and slower speeds like in PRIMM it really helped out.

-Ryan

[zjohnson]

From what I remeber, there was no difference in travel numbers between the gkn and mckenzies axles, the rear was pulling about 24" of travel. When he went with the conventional axles, he had to limit the rear to about 18" of travel. From what I can remember, the suspension cycles easier with the mckenzies axles opposed to the gkn ball splines, which meant that cv's live longer with the tripod axle. But then I believe marking was only running the cv's to a little over 30 degrees.
On quinn's car, it cycles 27" of true travel, using a lot angle up to get this angle.

[Mark Newhan]

The idea of the McKenzie axle's is to have the axle plunge isolated to the axle, not through the C.V.. When a rear trailing arm cycles away from the Transaxle, or droop, the distance from centerlines of the C.V.'s increases, and then decreases as the suspension compresses. With the coventional splined axle you merely run out of room for the axle to travel through the stars, it wants to plunge either into the transaxle or out the end cap of the hub.

Also when you are on the gas and torque is applied to the C.V. there is a lot of friction on the mating surface between the axle spline and the C.V. star. Friction is heat and heat kills C.V.'s

The McKenzies axles use the same tripod design that G.M. has been using of their IFS 4x4 since 1988 and on front wheel drive cars dating back to the 60's on vehicles such as the Oldmobile Toronado and the Cadillac Eldorado. The McKenzies axles will be the future of the unlimited cars. It is the only way to get the wheel travel that the cars need, out of an IRS design, unless something else comes along.

The front of Big Mac used a Cornay Joint which worked well for them, however that truck did not apply all of the power to the front drive train.

[Brad Falin]

What does a car like that weigh. I find it hard to believe that it is 3500#S in race ready condition. From what I heard the cornay joint did not have a good success rate, we used something similar on a fan drive for a cooling system. what cvs Do the Herbst use on the trophy truck, was it an off the shelf part or something they designed

[Chris_Wilson]

"Also when you are on the gas and torque is applied to the C.V. there is a lot of friction on the mating surface between the axle spline and the C.V. star."

Isn't this sticktion under torque enough to interfere with the normal operation
of the suspension? Maybe only after it burns the grease out?

[John_Bitting]

From what I remeber, there was no difference in travel numbers between the gkn and mckenzies axles, the rear was pulling about 24" of travel. When he went with the conventional axles, he had to limit the rear to about 18" of travel. From what I can remember, the suspension cycles easier with the mckenzies axles opposed to the gkn ball splines, which meant that cv's live longer with the tripod axle. But then I believe marking was only running the cv's to a little over 30 degrees.
On quinn's car, it cycles 27" of true travel, using a lot angle up to get this angle.

Yes, I want to say I heard about 18" with the non plunging..

On another note, I think the Quinn axles are $5k or so cheaper a set then the GKN. . Something like that.. It was a big difference. The Quinn axles look frickin cool all beefy and big.

[Mark Newhan]

Yes Chris, The "sticktion" does have an effect on the free movement of the wheel.

Brad Falin, The Conay joint wont handle the torque that a C.V handles. The Cornay joint has approximately the same rating as a 1350 series u-joint. The design is more like a dual cardin joint with the difference being all of the moving parts are internal rather than external. There was a website that had all of the info but today I tried to access it and got nothing, The company was Drive Technologies, they bought the liscense rights to produce the Cornay Joint. The cool thing was the joint would operate up to 50 degrees, and higher.

I believe the Herbst's are using the same size C.V. that Marking old car and Quinn's car has. I also believe that they don't send all of the power to the front wheels.

[zjohnson]

I'm not sure about the price of the axles, I do know that the rough estimate is $10K for the mckenzies axle, that inculdes cv's and outer hubs. I remeber hearing the price of the GKN axle at about $10K for the set of two. The beauty of the mckenzies axle is that it contains wearable replaceable parts. Another great thing about the plunging axle is that is gets rid of the bind when a conventional axe tries to slide on the splines. Because the pressure angles aren't optimum for the sliding to happen, extra force is needed to plunge and extra heat is generated in the joint.
As for the herbst cv's, they are the next size up from the one's quinn and marking use. The use a size 30 joint, and the herbst use the next size (I believe around a 40) with a plunging inner and non plunging outer cv. I think the size 30 is used on industrial drivetrains, and from what I have heard about the next size is off of a train.
As for the weight of the cars, I believe quinn's car weighed in at 3900lbs at the vegas short course race (no spare and min fuel).

[Brad Falin]

cool website for engineering innovations, We used the cornay joint for a fan drive system but it was scraped to a gear drive set up due to chassis flex, we had four of them and it would almost make a 90 degree turn, I have heard, and looking at video of the TT for the Herbst, it looks like they alot less wheel travel in front estimating 14-16 inches, does there 4wd system split power to front and rear equally or can it be varied mechanically or electronaclly, I thought Dondels would split power electronically by measuring wheel speed off the rear diff and bring the front in it saw too much slip , sorry this is getting off topic of CV joints

[ChuckH]

Cornay joint at Drive Technologies

http://www.drivetechnologies.com/page3.htm

[bcampbell04]

is chet putting a TT body on it so when his new TT is ready he will have points? isn't he getting a Jimco TT

[Toykeeper]

I'm not sure how long to let this go, it is entertaining how the rumor mill runs. Yes we broke a gkn, yes we will be running quinn axles. Those axles had a lot of miles on them, we just wanted to test so we used the race to do it. Yes it will be a chevy TT starting at laughlin, no I don't have pix as of yet much less the body. It will debut at laughlin as a TT and race as such. Yes the motor will stay in the rear. (Maybe we'll turn it at a 45 so the crank rotation doesn't cause a reverse torque steer.)(hey why not feed the rumor mill)L.O.L.!!! This is our jimco TT.

[chevy625]

toykeeper you need to change your name to thread killer. thats a cool idea about turning the motor at a 45° hope that works at laughin we will see. haha