WANTED: More HP in a 5.4L 2002

[Alex Paterson]

Anyone out there know what can be done with a 2002 Ford F150 5.4L V8 to give it some more get up and go. I am trying to find ways other then a super charger or turbo and reliability is a big deal for me. I would like to have somewhere around 450-500hp. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks,
Alex

[la2baja]

I believe that motor is making around 300 stock. 150 plus, over that without a turbo or supercharger would require some serious engine work. I am sure it can be done without exceeding 10 to 1 compression (race fuel needed) but you're talking about a race motor at that point. The common bolt-ons, headers and exhuast, intake and a chip might get you near 80 or maybe 90hp more. *disclaimer (Those are manufactures' numbers.) This is just my opinion based on limmited knoledge!

[Alex Paterson]

Thanks for the help. Kenne Bell makes a super charger good for about 415-450 hp, but I am trying to stay away froma blower but that may be the best route, short of calling Patton :) I have read that headers really do nothing for this engine and I am running an K&N based intake but actually want to go back to stock or a UPM style filter system. I will try a programmer before I do anything major to see how that helps.

This sports funny, you make one thing better and it opens up four other issues.

Alex

[jeff]

The 5.4L is not a very big V8, only 330 or so cubic inches. Trying to get 450-500 hp from 330ci (with no boost) is going to require more money than you'll ever want to spend. In my opinion you've got three realistic choices... boost from either a turbo or supercharger, spend crazy amounts of $$$, run a different motor. Only one obvious solution is coming to mind.... BOOST!

Look at a Leon Patton motor... $35,000 and 442ci gets you 750hp. Sure, it's a full blown race motor, but you get the idea of the $$$ involved to get big reliable power from a small V8. The 5.4L is the base motor for the Ford GT-40... running a blower and it's making 500+ reliable hp. The price tag will make you cringe.

Mustang GT500 Motor: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9560
GT40 Motor: http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=8037

Aloha

[Big Oly TT]

You can get a 500-550 horsepower 4 valve 5.4 motor with an aviaid dry sump system for $11,000 from I guy in Florida that builds them. BOSS330.com I think? Contact me if you are serious adn I will put you in contact with the guy.

[Josh_K]

There is a stroker kit that will bump it up to a 5.7. I think its a svo thing. And dry sumping is required too. The upper limit for that engine is 550 naturally asperated. Oh ya, I dont think a factory FI or any of the factory intake stuff will support that hp either.

It would get spendy buy the time it was done. To give you an idea of how much, go to you local dealer and price a gt40 creat engine.

[Alex Paterson]

Thanks for the info guys, I think I could get a little over my head. The other issue is keeping it SMOG legal for AZ. I will do some more research, the other problem I am finding is the Superchagers that I like are no longer made for the F150, Whipple and Kenne Bell. The Prochager, Paxton etc take up a ton of room under the hood with plumping and brackets.

This would be bitchen, but at $36,000 I may have to wait a bit.

Alex

[jeff]

The Boss 330 address is http://www.boss330racing.com/ --- not much there though.

Aloha

[CAR568]

Hi, Here in Australia Ford are producing quad cam version of the 5.4L. It's effectively the 5.4L bottom end & 4.6L cobra heads. I am not sure if they are getting away with using the 4.6 intake. They are making 320KW (428BHP) with better headers & intakes guys getting up around 330 - 340KW. You should be able to get all the parts very easily over there in the US. You will need to run 98 octane fuel as I don't think they are relieving the heads at all.

Good luck.

[Big Oly TT]

The Boss 330 address is http://www.boss330racing.com/ --- not much there though.

Aloha

If you are serious. You have to call and talk to him. His website is "weak". He was very informative and nice.

[Alex Paterson]

If you are serious. You have to call and talk to him. His website is "weak". He was very informative and nice.

I went ot his website and it is less then informative, but no biggie. he is a bit far away. I spoke with a guy in Cali and am waiting to her back from him. I think the best bet is to go with a super charger but Kenne Bell and Whipple stopped making one for my F150 and IMO they made the cleanest system.

Alex

[Alex Paterson]

Just in case anyone with an F150 was following this I found a company called Allen Engine who makes a nice super charger for the Ford engines. It uses an Eaton style charger and is inner cooled. Think I will do that as I just don't have the 30-40k for a engine.

Alex

[amr126]

seriously, I think that a Kenne Bell 2.4 L supercharger would be your best bet, if you you have any possibility of running a supercharger. As far as 4 valve 5.4s, the navigators have 4 valve motors. You could stroke the motor like mentioned above, go with ported heads, long tube exhaust, cam, and probably a better set of rods/pistons in case of detonation along with machine work and spend more than the supercharger.

[Alex Paterson]

Kenne Bell no longer makes a charger for my engine, only 2004 and newer. :(

Alex

[John F2000]

go for the blower. They are not any more unreliable than nat aspirated if done right. Look to a vortech or pro-charger, paxton. The centrifugal blowers could be considered better in a dirt application than vane/roots blowers for long term wear. And there are a lot of kits out there.

[Chris_Wilson]

If the spark plugs blow out in stock form, what keeps them in when you add boost? Did Ford redesign the cylinder heads to keep the plugs from blowing out? I think they only had three threads in the plug hole?

[John F2000]

If the spark plugs blow out in stock form, what keeps them in when you add boost? Did Ford redesign the cylinder heads to keep the plugs from blowing out? I think they only had three threads in the plug hole?

Thats what duct tape is for.

[amr126]

I would try and go with a whipplecharger if I had a chance. Personally, I would think a twin screw supercharger would be more reliable than a centrifugal based on the speed of the internal parts. If a small grain of sand makes it way into the motor it would face a lot higher speed in the centrifugal supercharger. Also, it would be beneficial to get some low rpm grunt with a positive displacement(whipple) supercharger, vs. a centrifugal.

[steveG]

Did Ford redesign the cylinder heads to keep the plugs from blowing out?

Yes they did.

[steveG]

go for the blower. They are not any more unreliable than nat aspirated if done right. Look to a vortech or pro-charger, paxton. The centrifugal blowers could be considered better in a dirt application than vane/roots blowers for long term wear. And there are a lot of kits out there.

Ditto. If you're after big power I think it's the way to go. Aren't the new GT-500s making 500hp with a factory warranty? I would think you could get pretty close to that with the right set-up and and still be very reliable.

[John F2000]

I would try and go with a whipplecharger if I had a chance. Personally, I would think a twin screw supercharger would be more reliable than a centrifugal based on the speed of the internal parts. If a small grain of sand makes it way into the motor it would face a lot higher speed in the centrifugal supercharger. Also, it would be beneficial to get some low rpm grunt with a positive displacement(whipple) supercharger, vs. a centrifugal.

A whipplecharger is a root type blower. Much more suseptable to small foreign matter than centrifugal. Small grain of sand will do less damage thru a centrifugal than a roots. With a roots, once you scar the end plates or teflon on the blades you loose psi. Small nicks, sctratches to the impeller on a centrifugal is proprotionately less effect.

Both centrifugal and roots type blower (whipple) are directly connected to motor rpm and will generate a specific boost at a specific rpm, unlike turbocharging. In this application you would achieve the same "grunt" with either blower.

[Alex Paterson]

The problem with a Paxton or such is they take up a ton on engine space and will get in the way of shock mounting.

I am leaning towards the Allen Engines charger (like a Whipple or Kenne Bell) as its a root (sp or word usage) type charger and sits in the valley of the engine so it doesnt take up a ton of room. Also Kenne Bell and Whipple no longer make them for the 02 F150.

www.allenengine.com check them out and let me know what you think.

Also, about the plug problem. I spoke with a mechanic friend of mine and he said a lot of the problems acured from over tighting them as well as leaving the plug in for 100k miles or more. When left in for so long (even though Ford recommends it) the plug can build up carbon which can pull the theads and also the plug itself can sieze in the head.

Thanks for the hlep guys, it is greatly appracated. Another thing is I will want to run a UMI or BTR type air filter, any thoughts on that?

Alex

[amr126]

Actually whipple chargers are twin screw (lyshom screw) brothers, check there websiteMy brother had a Vortech S trim supercharger that ate up a small piece of metal, a was completely destroyed, costing him about 2 grand for a head unit. Also, you can't recieve the same "grunt" using a centrifugal supercharger as a positive displacement blower. Read any magazine test or dyno pull with a like vehicle equipped with one of each model supercharger, a difference becomes clear. Sure, you could make a centrifugal supercharger create boost at a low rpm like the roots style, but come higher rpms you would run such high rpms on the blower that the adiabatic efficiency would take a dump, and the supercharger would become nothing more than a heater. The whipple charger has a adiabatic efficiency of up to a quoted 80% per the whipple industries website. Usually mid 70's for a centrifugal supercharger is the best achievable. above 80% abiatic efficiency in turbo's is usual in a proper application.:)

[John F2000]

Actually whipple chargers are twin screw (lyshom screw) brothers, check there websiteMy brother had a Vortech S trim supercharger that ate up a small piece of metal, a was completely destroyed, costing him about 2 grand for a head unit. Also, you can't recieve the same "grunt" using a centrifugal supercharger as a positive displacement blower. Read any magazine test or dyno pull with a like vehicle equipped with one of each model supercharger, a difference becomes clear. Sure, you could make a centrifugal supercharger create boost at a low rpm like the roots style, but come higher rpms you would run such high rpms on the blower that the adiabatic efficiency would take a dump, and the supercharger would become nothing more than a heater. The whipple charger has a adiabatic efficiency of up to a quoted 80% per the whipple industries website. Usually mid 70's for a centrifugal supercharger is the best achievable. above 80% abiatic efficiency in turbo's is usual in a proper application.:)

In this application, since budget seems to be the key point, it is obviously going to be a low boost application. In that scenario the diff between a centrifugal and roots in reference to response or "grunt" as you say will be minimal. Any blower sucking up a small piece of metal is going to cost regardless of if it is a roots or not. I have both a 460 intercooled twin turbo and a 572 merlin with a 10-71 bds blower intercooled. The turbo motor is set up to come on at 2500 rpm. The blower motor cant come on until 3000 or it will over boost at top rpm. Both motors are 1,000hp In the end, other than drag racing the lack of "grunt" on the turbo versus roots blower is irrelevent in an off-road application. Note that the centrifugal blower will be even more responsive than the turbo motor. In the end, if the motor is set up right, regardless of what the magazines say, you can get both blowers to perform equally for this application. In the end, just pick your favorite.

[Alex Paterson]

Tell you what, Jonh, sense you have been so helpfull I will just trade you trucks :)

Ya, I am on a bit of a budget because the truck is going out to H&M for the full make over. As it sits it makes decent power, I just want a little more. My other concern is if I wait to do add a sc to the engine in will be harder to retro fit the engine cage around the blower verus building it with it on.

If the new year starts off with a bang I will most likly go with the Allen Engine sc and enjoy the xtra 80-100 ftlbs of torque.

Thanks for all your help guys
Alex

[amr126]

John F2000, look at any compressor map and there is a big difference between the two.

[John F2000]

John F2000, look at any compressor map and there is a big difference between the two.

Not trying to get into an argument. I am not disagreeing with the difference in specs on a compressor map. I am only stating that in a low boost, low hp, non- drag racing, off road application. Both set-ups will perform very close to each other, and there are compromises on both sides.

[amr126]

I don't wish to argue either, just state the facts. I guess this link to whipple supercharger's website sums up the point I'm attempting to get across.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/faq.asp?faqID=35#35

[John F2000]

I don't wish to argue either, just state the facts. I guess this link to whipple supercharger's website sums up the point I'm attempting to get across.
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/faq.asp?faqID=35#35

Nice advertisement. There is no doubt a positive displacement blower has its benefits, evident by all top fuel cars. That graph is just that, an advertisement, not accounting for temps, hp, etc, only boost. Note that a centrifugal blower can make more hp with lower boost due to lower discharge temps, note link below. But I dont disagree with the benefits of a positive disp blower, I own one and love it. In the end when you have driven both motors built for an off road application, they can both be made to accomplish a goal, both with positive benefits. In this application cost, packaging, and personal choice is all that will really matter.

http://www.lextreme.com/icvsnic.htm