School me on fuel cell installs - please

[dezertdude]

OK, need to get a cell mounted and functioning within the next week. Never done it before, done some research, but still not sure on, well really, any aspect of the install other then actually mounting the cell itself. I did a search and read through about 10 posts with similar questions, but I just want to do this right the first time with as little headaches as possible.

Vehicle: 1999 Ford Ranger, 2.5L 4cyl
Cell: 22gal Jazz
Fuel pump: would like to retain stock unit for simplicity/cost....possible?

Basically I need to have this layed out for me.....how do I install/purchase the pump/plumbing? Where can I get the parts? Any help would be really, really appreciated.

[movindirt]

You might have already seen this thread about pumps: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24778

I know some do run the pump in the cell so you may be able to modifiy the stock pump to work. Just make sure you use a fuel injection pump. You will also need to have a return line, which is the difference from a regular carbed set up from a plumbing aspect.

[Paul Holguin]

It's really pretty easy. You'll need to get the fittings(size dash 8 or dash 6 I believe) from a store that would supply that specific item, like Mc Kenzies, ect. Get all of the fuel line and hose clamps. If you talk to a salesperson at any of the major off road suppliers, they'll get you set up. I have always just run the new fuel line to the factory hard lines under the cab.

Don't forget to plumb for the return. For mine, I went into the filler neck and threaded a new hole with a tap, then used a brass fitting that it threaded on one end and barbed on the other, and it's good to go.

Make sure you tighten the fittings coming out of the cell, I have had 3 jazz cells and they've all leaked...

[josh909]

How about keping it street legal?

[dezertdude]

movindirt,

Thanks, I did read that thread, unfortunatly they are talking about using in line pumps....I would like to use my stock unit. The in line is not only more expensive for me, but it opens a whole new can of worms as far as install. Such as pressure regulation, I have no clue how that works, i assumed the regulator was integrated into the stock pump unit, but again, I dont know. Ive also heard many of them are unreliable....Ive got 130,000 miles on the stock unit, and 8 years of use. In a perfect world Id take my stock unit out, maybe extend some soft lines, extend the pickup, bolt it up and go........:confused:

Is'nt the factory return line fed into the stock pickup/pump unit? Could'nt I retain the factory setup? Or does it have to go to the filler?

This seems like it should be so easy, yet its not. lol

Thank you guys for your input so far, anymore help?

[dezertdude]

movindirt,

I re-read that thread.....so did you end up using the bronco pump or......? That inline factory pump they are talking about from the 86-89 fords.....whats the deal on those? Can that just be setup inline on a switch to pump fuel and run the return into the filler?

[movindirt]

To keep it street legal is use the stock cap and the metal part is screws to for the top of the filler and connect the return line to the cell. Some places might say it doesn't pass visual but they are full of it. A tank is a tank.

I haven't done anything yet as I am just bugeting the project right now. But two of the people that replied had done the swap with good results. You won't need a regulator because you already have one and it will still work. I would just use the wires that ran to the old pump and it should work as it always did. No reason to add circuits you don't need.

[movindirt]

This is what I am planning on using to adapt the AN lines to the stock lines

Russell Fuel Rail Fittings for 5.0L EFI Mustang (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_752516_-1_10019)

I think all Ford fuel lines are the same so they should work. The fittings I am adapting to are on the side of the motor and so I will lose the stock fuel filter. If you do this make sure to run and efi type filter to take its place.

[dezertdude]

OK, now were getting somewhere.

Sounds like my easiest solution is to find a FACTORY in line pump and use that....correct? Run the existing wiring as it should just plug and play, correct? And I guess the regulator is somewhere in-line further upstream than the factory pump? I cant see a regulator anywhere, but I guess Ill figure that out later.

[dezertdude]

Yeah! That fitting could come in handy!

[sickrick]

Regulator is on the fuel rail, It is the little gizmo with the vacuum line and fuel return running out of it.

Thae factory inline pump is one of the most reliable fuel pumps ever made. If they have stopped working it is usually just a poor/dirty electrical connection or bad relay.

I bought a nice bronco once for $50 bucks that the guy said needed a new computer and he didn't want to spend $600 for a new one. You should have seen the look on his face when I swapped the horn relay for the fuel pump relay and drove it on the trailer.

[dezertdude]

haha, good stuff.

After posting I remembered seeing that gizmo and figured thats what it was....

So I should be able to go to autozone(or factory ford would probably be better) and ask for a fuel pump for a 88 2.3L ranger and that will work?

Thanks guys!

[zipperhead]

Take out the stock tank keep pump/sending unit for parts, trade stock tank for any STEEL bronco II or ranger tank, wash out said tank, cut 10" around fuel pump/ sending unit flange(thingy w/ steel lock ring, adapt to new cell( bolts & o-ring), remove slip connects from stock hoses(knife) purchase high press line from favorite store, extend lines using slip connects, cut wiring harness to stock tankleaving PLENTY of wire to splice, extend wiring harness, install 2.3 pump into/onto unit piping, bolt up cell, connect all that needs connecting, pressurize system( key on), check for leaks!!!!!!!, fire it up & run it. Hope this helps, I JUST went through this two days ago but some****head(ME) didn't add to the mixture a 4.0 pump in the tank(still had the 2.9 pump from donor tank hooked up). Pull your bed off first! you will never want to do it another way after you have diconnected the filler neck, the plug at the back of the truck under the bed, & the six Torx bolts holding the bed down(some people make their living on their backs, not me!). Also make sure the feed & return lines don't get mixed up....

[dezertdude]

zipper,

Thanks for the thorough explanation. This makes total sense and is a viable option as I have a metal explorer tank sitting at the shop. And the truck does'nt have a bed.

But.....I would REALLY like to use the in line factory pump as mentioned before......but I was thinking wont that be for a carbed truck(87-98)...i.e. not enough pressure....???

:o

[sickrick]

zipper,

Thanks for the thorough explanation. This makes total sense and is a viable option as I have a metal explorer tank sitting at the shop. And the truck does'nt have a bed.

But.....I would REALLY like to use the in line factory pump as mentioned before......but I was thinking wont that be for a carbed truck(87-98)...i.e. not enough pressure....???

:o

Give us some credit we wouldn't be telling you to put a carb fuel pump on a FI engine.

[dezertdude]

haha, juuuuust checking. thanks for the help

[dezertdude]

K guys sorry for all the questions, just want to have a complete understanding of everything before I tear into it....

Is this the correct pump? http://www.napaautoparts.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=BSH&PartNumber=N69100&Description=Fuel+Pump+(OE+Electric+In-Line+Type)

Also, what do I do with the charcoal canister?

[ntsqd]

Also, what do I do with the charcoal canister?
Hook it up to your fuel cell's vent if this is to be street legal.

[dezertdude]

Picked up my cell over the weekend, 22gal jaz. I'll be hitting you guys with some more questions here real soon!

But reading up on old threads, it seems EVERYONE is concerned with the foam baffling material used in these cells. It got me thinking, why are'nt these companies integrating hard plastic baffles into thier bladders? The jaz bladder is hard plastic... seems like it would be easy to incorporate some vertical walls with holes in them for baffles......???

[ntsqd]

The foam is a more effective baffle method.

From no scientific study, just careful observation, it would appear that pump fuel might be harder on the foam than race fuel. At that I seem to recall one of the quality Fuel Cell mfg's recommending foam replacement every 2-3 years.

Somewhere (here I think) I recently read what I think is a very good RoT for when to replace the foam. If when you pinch it you have little black stuff on your fingers it's time.

The cells I've had my hands in have two layers of foam. With a street driven cell you may not need the upper layer. If not, put it in some large zip-locks or something & set it aside in a cool place out of the sun until that in the cell needs replacing.

[movindirt]

Hook it up to your fuel cell's vent if this is to be street legal.

You know I was think about this thread and realized I forgot to mention the vent to charcoal canister. Good to see you were on top of things Thom..


I am going to be putting a cell in my Ranger soon. While considering my options I wondered if for a prerunner/chase truck would it be better to run the Jaz type cell (hard plastic) vs the bladder type. I was thinking the bladder type could fail prematurely due to lack of cleaning during prep as would be done on a racer.

[dezertdude]

OK so I was gonna wait till I started the install (This weekend) to ask this but since you brought it back up movindirt.....

This truck will be raced. Dont really care about being street legal any longer. But I'm 99.9% sure I'll throw a code if the charcoal canister is not functioning. Dont want that. So I guess I can just run the vent line around the cell(per MDRs rules) and then route it to the canister...???

Right now my pump has 3 lines coming off it. Pressure, return(I assume) and one fat plastic hose going to the charcoal canister. Then that hose that hoes that goes from the pump to the canister splits off and goes up to this vacuum deal right next to the engine. I'm lost again. I'll take pics when I start the install and hopefully that will make things easier.

Thanks again for your help guys. Seriously appreciated.

[Moss2]

If you are going to race it and be filling it with dump cans the vent will need to be freeflowing and the charcoal canister may be a problem if that is the only air vent. Definitely try a quick fill up before race day.

[dezertdude]

OK, got the stock tank out last night, whole new can 'o worms. Questions:

1. I got a reading of 64PSI at the fuel rail with the stock setup...seems high....ya.....no?

2. there is a sensor that came off the stock pump that twisted off(from the top of the pump), 3 wires and its a sensor I dont recognize...its got a little valve/button thing on it and thats it....a picture would probably help here, but Ive never seen it hooked up to someones cell, and would like to get rid of it if possible, again without throwing any codes.

3. This is where I get totally confused. Every EFI system Ive read about has a pressure and a return. I have a pressure that goes to the fuel rail. But no return. Just a plastic line the goes from intake manifold, to pump, then from there T's off to charcoal canister. My thought was to leave this intact and tap into it for the vent line off the cell. Sound right? I blew through the charcoal canister hose and it is somewhat restrictive, but I have no idea how to eliminate it without throwing a code. (i tried to just unplug it and it threw a code)

4. how does this returnless system work? It needs the EXACT pressure? (64psi?)

5. what size fittings/lines should I use and how should I tap those into the stock line(s)?

6. According to my haynes manual, my pressure regulator is integrated into the stock pump, looks like it is to me as well. So Ill need an inline pressure regulator...any particular brand/type I should go with, any tips on setting them up? Same question regarding fuel pump......

Sigh.......

[jeff]

TTT...

Aloha

[dezertdude]

TTT...

Aloha

???


So yeah, I just decided to adapt my stock pump/sending unit to the cell. Extended the pickup, drilled some holes so the whole unit would fit into the "stock" jazz filler hole, and made a new filler neck/hole. Gonna extend some wiring and plumbing and should be good to go. Figured this was much easier and cheaper then buying a new pump, lines and pressure regulator. Looks clean and with the stock filler/cap should pass SMOG.

Thanks for all the help. It seems so simple now. lol. :o