The "Project"

[FABRICATOR]

A machine of many beginnings and many ends.

[FABRICATOR]

#1) Early stages of exhaust plumbing. Hmmm, what kind of mid-mounted motorvation is this?

#2) Bead formed in 1.75 x .050 Al tube with "homemade" beading tool.

#3) Tuba lessons. :)

#4) 1/2" ss lines going to steering gear unit with 2 each 3.125" pistons. 1.75" x .035" ss line to radiator.

[eliwallace]

Are U Closer To The Beginning Or The End With This Project. And Is That A Chevy Conversion ?

[partybarge_pilot]

If he's doing plumbing, I'd say it's closer to the end.

[Rory]

What EXACTLY is "The project"?

[eliwallace]

gotcha ..... so when is this thing likely to hit the dirt

[FABRICATOR]

It is much closer to the "end".
Whatever a "Chevy Conversion" is, this isn't. The concept for this project centered on Chevrolet V-8 power from the beginning. In fact, it was quite a bit GM by way of GM Performance Parts, AC/Delco, and Hydra-Matic. Originally slated for the SBC motor, room and "other accommodations" were always retained for the BBC. It's BBC now. Time to dirt, uncertain.


What EXACTLY is "The project"?
It's hard to pinpoint as it has a very long and spotty history to it. It started out as an ambitious, privately funded, multi-level advertising proposal to be offered to one or more divisions of a large automaker, back when they did things like that. That part of it predates Big Mac. The objective was to create a vehicle capable of overall dominance in a desert racing venue, not only against new rivals such as Toyota but anything else that might come along in the forseeable future.

[Scott_F]

Hey FAB, can you post some more pics of this mythical beast? Especially chassis and drivetrain? :)

Your never ending build reminds me of a friend who was building a custom 4 stroke dirt bike, before the '98 YZ400F changed everything. He stuffed a Husaberg engine in his own perimeter frame, with light weight components selected from various models. I think he got about 90% done, but then the project faded away. Maybe he lost interest, or history caught up and left it in the dust.

I hope you will finish yours this decade. My project is coming along slowly, and I want to beat you out of the garage, because I won't be able to catch you off road with my little six shooter!

[FABRICATOR]

Hey Scott, where’s your show-and-tell thread?

Mystery and doubt perhaps, but it's no myth.
Pictures? If what it is and why it is, are not understood, then how is meaningless. As far as stopping and gathering dust, that has already happened a couple times. There may be parts that history has caught up with, but there are many other parts and some major concepts, that history has not. Even today, there is little comparable in power, weight, travel, driver input, range, design correctness, or simplicity. On top of that, it's expected to require very low maintenance. And don't feel bad, it was intended from the very first thought that nothing ground based would catch it. :)

There's more on the many technical hurdles if interested. Right, wrong, good, or bad, this project was/is the most comprehensive in dezert racing. But for now, it rests in a void between hobby overkill and deficient commercial need.

[down4glamis]

your use of adjectives makes it sound so much more than the average TT. lol =). sounds like a truck that i was/would be talking about with the videos of the older trucks. i say older trucks, but they were and still could be fast and cutting edge. yours is say, outdated on its build date, but even the designs and concepts from then still stand today, and it could be a show stopper. been waiting for someone,anyone to come out and step away from the cookie cutter (i know i know, some are diffrent) chassis design and wheelbase/weight/ etc etc

[FABRICATOR]

Okay, this may ruin my chance for a skunks feature, but one picture does not make a skunk and it's all there might be for a while. (It would be appreciated that anyone privy to this project in the past maintain confidentiality as promised.)

Here's a first time body-off picture of the antique, Geezer-built, rust bucket. :)

[500” BBC, “new” transaxle with quick-change gears, IFS/IRS (28”/33”) with interface to auto/driver input, 125” W/B, steering is one turn lock to lock, 80 gallon cell, race weight approx. 4,000 pounds. Seat, radiator, or shock <6 minutes. Water pump, distributor, or final drive ratio <10 minutes. Overall quite simple, low C/G, low unsprung wieght, approx 6 lb/hp, and well under $1 million!]
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/FrontS2.jpg

[Samco Fab]

That "Project" looks cool, are the front lower shock mounts in the blacked out area at the outer end of the lower control arm and super layed down at full compression, or highly inboard mounted like on the new Pfleuger Machine?

Will it run 35's or 37's?

Will it see dirt soon?


Watch out for giant potatoes, if you hit one with that front skid plate you might have a ton of french fries to deal with:D

I cant wait to hear the whole story about the "Project"

[moabWalker]

Please sir I'd like some more... This looks amazing and it would serve most of us well to take a long look at the way FAB put it together. I've been standing in back listening to FABRICATOR's advice for a while and I always wanted to know what his truck looked like. If I was that talented I probably wouldn't start giving my secrets out on the web; just giving a little nibble and pulling away. Much respect FABRICATOR. Stay up.

[FABRICATOR]

Thank's for the good words! :) Feel free to critique as well. As those who design know, there can be a tremendous amount of work in something that looks very simple. This was also put together before there was CNC in every shop, and before the age of "bling".

I do need to apologize to Mr. John Bitting. He's been waiting patiently for a very long time to skunk the beast. Well it's just not ready to show at other angles. Not because of the stage it's in, but because of how things work. (Sorry, the "blackouts" looked OK on one monitor and pretty bad on another.) FWIW, it's only been shown here.

The front shocks are not laid down, or connected similar to Mr. Pfleuger's new TT. They are simple coil-overs and position sensitivity is provided without by-pass technology. (read: smoooooothly)

Good or bad, absolutely nothing on the car is similar to Mr. Pfleuger's new TT, aka "Dirty Harry".

If it looks like there should be a tube here or a gusset there, it's because there probably should be a tube here or a gusset there. Tubes were left out for access.

The front arms may look vulnerable to some, but the main reason for big boxed arms is to hold up to bypass shocks, not the bumps. The great Dodges, mighty Toyota, and venerable Arnold, Trophy-Trucks, all had/have open tubular lower control arms. The arms, and many other important components, are upgradable. But the rear is designed to be much more boulder and impact resistant.

The upper skid plate does look a little old fashioned. It's wide to help protect the radiator. And that would be...Flamin Hot Cheetos, not french fries! The lower plate is about 8" wide, made from .250 4130, and goes all the way back to the seats. That's so it can survive almost any hit (in the center at least), provide substantial lower lateral strength, and to help to keep the front end down. Many things, including the dual batteries that sit on the floor, were moved forward and low.

To make a long story very short, factory support was out and about, then it wasn’t, permanently. Even the biggest and most successful teams could not keep the doors open. But some things did get finalized before the big plug was pulled. I'll try to explain what our little group considered necessary to take on the western dezerts.

[MikeAdams]

I remember you mentioning this thing in another thread eons ago..

Can't wait to see the skunk and the whole story. Secrecy allways makes things more fun lol..

[moabWalker]

"it was intended from the very first thought that nothing ground based would catch it."

Does Johnny Campbell still have his flight license for the XR?

[Devin J]

Can't wait to see more!

I like that it's shrouded in secrecy.

[FABRICATOR]

Thank you for the interest. I assure you that omissions are not for fun and games. Certain specifications and advantages need to remain vague for a while as they too can reveal significant matter.

Fast forwarding past the observations, study, research, brain picking, and various other influences...

Ever see a list of requirements for a truly unlimited car? Most would scoff at the very thought, little less grab it by the horns. The very first one gave different meaning to the term “clean slate” and presented mammoth design challenges.

It needed to have substantial power (that one was easy),
It needed to have IRS with improved capability and control,
No existing transaxle was close to what was needed in strength, proportions, or layout,
No known rear suspension layout was adequate (either weak, short, or both),
Unsprung weight had to be kept very low (this one collided with by-pass technology),
This kind of travel to power/weight ratio would require an interface to automatic and/or driver input,
Enhanced control was to be applied to all driver comand functions.
Safety and reliability were paramount, and had to be improved (No leaf springs, plunging CV’s, etc.),
Maintenance was to be low, and trackside component change AQAP,
Perfomance and range were to be maximized. Race weight had to stay under 4,500 pounds.

Of course this was only a get-started list. There was at least one list generated for each item on the list.

Anyone else make such a list? Does it have to cost a $million? How do you spot problems on the drawing board? How do you know what will work? Where does one begin?

[Devin J]

How many people were assigned to the project ?
All of my questions would equate to a very large post, so I'll start there.

[FABRICATOR]

How many people were assigned to the project ?
All of my questions would equate to a very large post, so I'll start there.
Actually producing something? A whopping 4. Of course there was also collaboration with outside powertrain and other gear/drive specialists.

[Devin J]

Did any of the the specialists come from the world of heavy/medium duty trucks & similar manufactuers?

I realize you're probably not going to divulge too much, but I just can't help asking. How about that Skunks feature?

[FABRICATOR]

One was a racing transmission manufacturer and one was, well let's just say part of the industrial world. My entire career has centered around medium and heavy duty trucks. On trucks you will find the best electrical components, alternators, and steering components. You will also find the very best engine air cleaning and cooling technology. Trucks can also give one an extensive and unique look into part failures, systems design, design flaws, and the effects of operational abuse. Everyone that designs or builds for dezert racing could learn plenty from trucks.

Interesting mention of trucks and drivetrains. When you are in the unknown you look to the proven, even it's if from a different arena. From trucks came part dimensions, from the trans maker came the parts.

[Devin J]

One was a racing transmission manufacturer and one was, well let's just say part of the industrial world. My entire career has centered around medium and heavy duty trucks. On trucks you will find the best electrical components, alternators, and steering components. You will also find the very best engine air cleaning and cooling technology. Trucks can also give one an extensive and unique look into part failures, systems design, design flaws, and the effects of operational abuse. Everyone that designs or builds for dezert racing could learn plenty from trucks.

Interesting mention of trucks and drivetrains. When you are in the unknown you look to the proven, even it's if from a different arena. From trucks came part dimensions, from the trans maker came the parts.

I'm a parts jockey in the world of heavy duty/midrange. I've worked for Cummins and International in my twelve years as a parts guy. I've seen so many things that could be implemented to desert racing, it makes my mind wander.......

Hope to see more & hear more!

[FABRICATOR]

To make another long story very short, it was determined that while AWD/4WD had handling advantages, and could do a similar job with slightly less travel, it also had disadvantages such as increased weight, complication, maintenance, and power loss. The weight and power penalties show up during a race in the form of decreased fuel range, performance, and tire life. In addition, when it comes to cars with high power to weight ratio, there is little to show that 4WD can out-accelerate an optimized 2WD on any terrain other than something like ice or mud where it is difficult to transfer weight. An eye was kept on overall vehicle efficiency. Weight has a voracious appetite for more weight. The point at which you first ignore it in design, is the point at which it is already out of control.

Front engine/transmission arrangements also had good and bad points. They offered great convenience, fairly good balance, and good ride qualities. On the downside, they end up and need to be somewhat heavier, compromises are made to the cars CG, and fuel placement is a huge compromise, especially when compounded with spare tire placement. Having fuel storage near the middle of the car and on the floor remained high on the wish list.

An early and viable consideration was a front engine/rear transmission arrangement, similar to the early 60’s Pontiac Tempest designed primarily by GM’s John Delorean. It was quite similar to what GM used on the Corvette 40 years later (it also later showed up on the Scalzo Class 1 car). The Tempest not only had the unique drive layout, but also was the introduction of the, then potent, little 215 all aluminum V-8 engine. Its drive design used a long torque tube and solid bar torsional drive shaft between the engine and rear mounted transaxle. But, there were two basic concerns that kept this arrangement from rising above all others for dezert racing. For one, to obtain full potential, there was still a need for some form of transaxle or unitized drive in the rear. The other was that no matter how things were laid out, the engine always seemed to interfere with front suspension, steering, or occupants. Though the arrangement was not yet abandoned, the search went on and mid-ship engine placement also continued to stay high on the wish list.

[zjohnson]

I notice some nye frank influence in the front of the car. . . right?

When we gonna get another pic of the mythical beast?

[ACID_RAIN28]

The old Class 2? that bryan kudela built for Larry ragland was a front engine rear transmission setup. How ever one of the down falls to that vehicle was the rising rate suspension.

[John_Bitting]

early 60’s Pontiac Tempest

Was it metallic mint green? Sorry I guess I have watched "My Cousin Vinny" way too many times.

[Devin J]

Fabricator - PM sent

[Devin J]

Are you ready now?

I'm checking for updates everyday! It has been possessing my thoughts!

[rkracing]

what ever became of this "project" ?

[13inc.]

do any of these ideas come from other motorized worlds... as like the design on a jet.. airplane.. boat????? i do love the photoshop skills... keeps me on the edge!! :D

[13inc.]

indy suspension play any part of the suspension design??

[Matt_Stankavich]

I just have to ask. This isn't an old Bunderson chasis that Billy Bunch had for awhile is it?

[FABRICATOR]

I notice some nye frank influence in the front of the car. . . right?

When we gonna get another pic of the mythical beast?

Some influence from Nye Frank and others in off-road, and some from people in other venues. The biggest influence was the attitude. Race to win, expect to win, innovation a necessity.


The old Class 2? that bryan kudela built for Larry ragland was a front engine rear transmission setup. How ever one of the down falls to that vehicle was the rising rate suspension.

I think I saw them all, never observed what I thought was a boldly rising rate system. I applaud Bryan Kudela for recognizing the potential long ago and never giving up on it.


Was it metallic mint green? Sorry I guess I have watched "My Cousin Vinny" way too many times.

No, not the car in the movie. The poor thing was thrashed and carefully dissected long before the movie came out. Nothing ended up usable on any scale.


Are you ready now?
Yes and no, not nearly as much time for the WWW these days. Hopefully that will change.

I'm checking for updates everyday! It has been possessing my thoughts!
Sorry. And I know the feeling well.


what ever became of this "project" ?
?? It's still around.


do any of these ideas come from other motorized worlds... as like the design on a jet.. airplane.. boat????? i do love the photoshop skills... keeps me on the edge!! :D
There are a few things from aerospace. Things like fastening methods, plumbing, high-side fluid filtering, anti-friction controls, and the combining of strength with efficiency.


indy suspension play any part of the suspension design??
Inspiration mainly, but there are a couple of things geometric and several anti-friction load points. Both of these are also carried over to the steering.


I just have to ask. This isn't an old Bunderson chasis that Billy Bunch had for awhile is it?
No.

[SpceSpff]

Please give us more info, this is killing me haha. Another picture maybe? Pretty please?

[fatnbald]

Please give us more info, this is killing me haha. Another picture maybe? Pretty please?

to much "tell", not enough "show"

[DUMP!]

to much "tell", not enough "show"Grin :) :p

[DesertGuy1]

Isn't this the Race Design car that was floating around the net some years back? If not, it sure does look similar.

http://www.racedesign.com/pictures.htm

I remember pictures of it when I started learning about the whole desert thing... did it ever get wrapped up?

[JPBart]

Interesting...the website is down. Conspiracy? I thought I saw a black helicopter a minute ago.......

[1450-ranger]

Was just up. Didn't miss out on much though.

[matt_helton]

i saved all the pics before the link crashed. ;)

[ACID_RAIN28]

i saved all the pics before the link crashed. ;)

well let them come to the light then ;)

[jessmotorsports]

Does this "project" really exist? I have read about it for a while and not seen any more pictures. Or is this like a teaser leading up to something big? I just dont understand I guess.

[dezerts10]

well let them come to the light then ;)

thats not nice. all the pics I took of the "other" secret truck were not posted.

Gregg

[therail]

Does this "project" really exist? I have read about it for a while and not seen any more pictures. Or is this like a teaser leading up to something big? I just dont understand I guess.

I agree. Someone doubted DUMP!, and he put up, big.

[Devin J]

Please? Pretty please?

[FABRICATOR]

Dammit, leave me alone. J/K!!! :)

Someone asked if it's real? Na, just some incredible Photoshop :rolleyes:.

Sorry, no bright and blingy photos, no flashy CAD, only half dozen or so multi-purpose jigs, full scale mechanical models, a small cluttered shop, and very low budget. But if it were real it woulda, shoulda, coulda, been kinda like this:

--Except for track width and the bottom of the rear down tubes, it would fit snugly inside the silhouette and skin of a 19xx:eek: full-sized
extended cab CHEVROLET TRUCK. (tailgate and all :rolleyes: )

--It would have an octagon chassis, for many, many reasons (one of the earliest for the dezert), 17 point cage.

--Kind of dreamy I know, but there would be 2 batteries right on the floor to help keep C/G low, maybe in an aluminum box or something.

--It would have a full access electrical system, maybe in another box (R&R in about 8 minutes) right above those batteries. The box might even have a built in Snap-On test light inside :rolleyes:.

--A six gauge panel with breakers in front of said box that would fold down flat for service (What, no shifter in the way?)

--Highly progressive (at times...) single shock front suspension, 6 minutes (out the bottom).

--Fuel cell on the floor to help keep C/G low (might even be wall-to-wall, but the aforementioned octagon makes for a nice bottom ;) ).

--Really long travel is kind of iffy but definatley has advantages in some places, such as going straight ahead over the rough. So rather than ignore it and make it go away, I would have (edit******we can get back to this later, sorry******)

--Steering would be significantly more powerful, faster, more precise, more reliable, and sensitive, but with significantly decreased maintenance costs. (You would see the tie rod behind the axle if it were installed).

The IRS drive train? Well, FWIW, I would use a system laid out long before the designer of Dirty Harry had anything to do with off-road racing.

It would have been sooooo simple, too bad it's only a mirage. :(
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/sideview01-1.jpg

In case some don't get it yet, this is not a popularity contest. Even if it went out and won, The Project was far too much work to brag about in any way. Confusing, yes. I myself don't know what it is at this point, and a couple things might be built a little differently today. But this thread is real and is simply an overview of what I thought it would take to go a little faster, then and now. Love it or hate it, 10,000 hits for virtually one picture so far, ain't too bad! THANK YOU for your time!!

If I don't post here again in time, have a MERRY CHRISTMAS and the HAPPIEST of HOLIDAYS!!!

[Devin J]

Sir, thank you very much!

I apologize for bothering you.:D

[zjohnson]

I'd like to thank dump again for full disclosure. Would be nice here. . . ;)

[therail]

I'd like to thank dump again for full disclosure. Would be nice here. . . ;)

If there was something to disclose....

[jessmotorsports]

I would assume there is since there are blacked out spaces.
But who knows maybe the future of off road racing as we know it, was built years ago and will be hidden for all eternity behind Orange and Black...

[Iggle]

I'd like to thank dump again for full disclosure. Would be nice here. . . ;)

Post some more pictures already...

[mattb]

Finally he posted pics on another thread!!! It's just what we expected!! JK

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37734&page=5

Post #46

[SimonSays]

Finally he posted pics on another thread!!! It's just what we expected!! JK

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37734&page=5

Post #46

lol

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=30850&d=1198941240

[TallKewl7]

/Shop/Show&Tell is a forum dedicated to your projects. Here you may start a thread about your current or past vehicle project and share it with everyone. You are encouraged to include lots of pictures with your post and keep updating the progress.

This forum is not to ask tech questions.


Speaking as a fan and a casual builder.....I think that pretty much says it all.

Marshall

[Devin J]

Any more spy satellite photos of this machine to share?

[Dustd]

:D The other one gets caught by the economy and this one is turning out to be a myth...:D

Oh well:cool:

[giannini]

any un edited photos? come on dont keep everyone hangin

[FABRICATOR]

Arm assembly: 1 each
Material: 4130
Length: approx. 30"
Weight: 10.00 pounds
Rod Ends: .875" x .750"
Finish: bead blast/OSH clear

[SpceSpff]

Why do the arms bolt together at the uniball cup? Just curious :)

[philofab]

It looks like the arm needs to hinge there in order to allow cambler/caster adjustment without binding at the chassis mount. These arms are very similar to what is used in late model dirt modifieds.

All the force on the two bars of the arm are either tension or compression without any real side load. A very simple and strong upper a-arm.

[Devin J]

Please sir, may I have another?

[fashionbiff]

Freaking unicorn car it can't be real. :)

[FABRICATOR]

Why do the arms bolt together at the uniball cup? Just curious :)

Philophab is right on. When you make adjustments to wheel alignment with any 3-point arm, you slightly change the distance between the two swivel joints in relation to the chassis. It is very popular to put a jog in one or both legs at the base of the 'A' (or 'J') in order to have the threaded portion of the rod end(S) point straight into the chassis. This lowers the amount of change to joint spacing when turning the rod end(s) in or out.

With this arm, the friction joint is loosened for the wheel alignment process but has nothing to do with alignment. It simply allows adjustments to be made at the rod ends with no effect on spacing.

But the true purpose of using this design is to allow more efficient arm construction. Each leg of the arm is straight. Billet pieces are designed and welded straight. Threaded sections are straight. Rod ends are straight. Virtually everything but the unibal cup is loaded in simple tension or compression, no bending or angled loads within the arm or on the chassis mounting brackets.

Most of the parts of this arm are oversized in order to handle the unexpected. The 2 legs and pinch bolt fit together tightly and have large surface areas at the friction joint. The .750 shank flanged pinch bolt and nut provide high clamping capacity and large surface areas for vibratory and/or unexpected shear loads. Though in this particular application the same arm will work on either side of the car, identical component parts are simply welded in different positions to create right and left hand arms.

Though this control arm by itself contributes only about 6 pounds to unsprung weight, it rivals nearly any other in both strength and rigidity. Each leg of the control arm easily stays in the 35-40,000 pound load range, which is well into the TT zone. It is not particularly difficult or expensive to produce. And of course being a centered arm, it hands no superfluous loads to the chassis like that of J-arms or some offset A-arms.

I can’t show the lower arm just yet but I can tell you it is slightly simpler, slightly longer, slightly heavier, and slightly stronger.:)

[redbaronrace]

allmost looks like the old castex truck/truggy .........but i know where that one is , COPY?

[Dumfast]

Its been awhile...Please...May we see more?

[Devin J]

I agree, I check everyday to see if the project has a new update!

[ACID_RAIN28]

Dammit, leave me alone. J/K!!! :)



--Kind of dreamy I know, but there would be 2 batteries right on the floor to help keep C/G low, maybe in an aluminum box or something.

--It would have a full access electrical system, maybe in another box (R&R in about 8 minutes) right above those batteries. The box might even have a built in Snap-On test light inside :rolleyes:.

--A six gauge panel with breakers in front of said box that would fold down flat for service (What, no shifter in the way?)--Fuel cell on the floor to help keep C/G low (might even be wall-to-wall, but the aforementioned octagon makes for a nice bottom ;) ).

The IRS drive train? Well, FWIW, I would use a system laid out long before the designer of Dirty Harry had anything to do with off-road racing.





Batteries low done
full access electrical system done
breakers easy to service done
I guess you could have a spare painless wiring kit ready to go

your right 1983 was soooo long after the start of desert racing ha

and FWIW our upper is only 4.5 pounds of unsprung with hardware and has survived a crash already

[hangten33]

Post more Pics when you can!!:D:D

[Devin J]

Yes, pics would be the best! Although, the updates of progress is good too!

I just want to see it in person.......

[DEZERTBOUND]

:)we are waiting.

[FABRICATOR]

Batteries low done
full access electrical system done
breakers easy to service done
I guess you could have a spare painless wiring kit ready to go

your right 1983 was soooo long after the start of desert racing ha

and FWIW our upper is only 4.5 pounds of unsprung with hardware and has survived a crash already

Sorry, I was a bit off and recollected 1984, and not much dezert at the time either. Go back another 11 years and you'll be in the ballpark. That wiring would be section looms, mil spec flame resistant wire, and cannon plugs, not Painless. I'm honestly glad it is all seen as simple, dull, and boring. The entire drive layout, steering system, and the entire suspension are equally dull and boring. But they don't work the same. Simple by any casual observer.

You know, I never claimed the "Project" was any good or worth squat, only that it was comprehensive. While on the subject of Harry being "done, done, done", where did all that money actually go? That drive arrangement was considered early on and was turned down for several reasons. It is doomed to compromise in the areas of power, travel, axle geometry, CV longevity, suspension geometry, overall reliability, efficiency, fuel range, changing gear ratios, and maintenance costs. Does Harry excel in any of these areas?

Or did the money go into the suspension? If so, why carry over by-pass technology when other things work so well? Was consideration given as to its effects on unsprung weight or overall weight? Do your on-the-fly adjustable shocks take care of body roll? If so, does the system work under all conditions, in all directions? Is it instantly manual, automatic, or anywhere in between? No, then the system must do something even more important. I'm having a hard time thinking of what that might be on a Trophy Truck. I wonder if something that could affect body roll might naturally lend itself to affect ride height? Oops, did I say that?

Spares perhaps, but fuel up high and out the back, with IRS??? Oh well it's only fuel, 500 pounds of high polar moment one minute and gone the next.:)

Someone should be paying you guys for that air ducting.

Oh, good job on those upper arms. That's just about where the similarities end along with the blingless free pics. :)

[FABRICATOR]

allmost looks like the old castex truck/truggy .........but i know where that one is , COPY?

Its been awhile...Please...May we see more?

I agree, I check everyday to see if the project has a new update!

Post more Pics when you can!!:D:D

Yes, pics would be the best! Although, the updates of progress is good too!
I just want to see it in person.......

:)we are waiting.

I liked the CASTEX truck when it came on the seen. There are few similarities other than its simplicity.

What interests one probably won't interest another. Everything here is rough fit, dirty, and nothing is spiffed up for a blingy photo shoot.

The first picture is one of the back side of the bumper and radiator. Nothing special but the entire bumper assembly, including the radiator and it's mountings do come off as a unit and are replaceable. Upper A-arm mounts point straight to uniball path. The .250 4130N rock plate that runs about 10" down the front and over 4 feet along the bottom, is bent at the corner but has a supported joint a few inches back from the bend. The front of the rock plate is angled up at 39 degrees and the 'larger obstacle' plate at 44. Simple 2 sided shroud is all the cooling air ducting the car has which helps to keep things cool and easy to work on. The shroud and fans are angled to shoot exit air down and out behind the front wheels. Each side flows air separately so the fans can operate independently and still be effective if one should fail. Shroud is attached to the chassis not the radiator. Single pass radiator is mounted in steel trays with rubber sections at core plates. Top tray is held by 4 bolts, radiator lifts out the top in a couple of minutes. Diagonal chassis tube on each side runs from the A-arm/steering unit area, all the way up and out to the middle of the front pillars. Large aluminum coolant surge/reservoir tank sits a few inches above radiator. Bottom of tank has -8 line running to highest point on the thin wall stainless lower coolant tube. Top of radiator has small air bleed line running to middle side of tank. "Radiator" cap and all filling is done through surge tank. There is one independent air bleed near the top of the engine.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/altfrnttogo4-20-1.jpg

Second picture is also of things going on behind the radiator. The powerful fan motors are mounted with aerospace quick release clamps and can be removed about as fast as one can unbolt the wires. All tubing is stainless. Two smaller 1/2" seamless lines go to the steering unit which bolts up under under the .250 4130N plate. Entire steering unit can be removed in well under 10 minutes.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/plumb1go4-07.jpg

[tomahawkracefab]

I wonder if something that could affect body roll might naturally lend itself to affect ride height? Oops, did I say that?

torsion bar suspension ( low unsprung weight )...and i reckon theres a diff in the front....

[partybarge_pilot]

Those pics are over a year old, Done anything recently?

[zetapsi827]

i used to get berated all the time like this during the 5 years of our build. my usual answer, "give me some money and i'll finish it faster"

i'm sure it will look great, take your time, do it right.

[jesusgatos]

Why's this thread got everybody all balled-up?

[partybarge_pilot]

Why's this thread got everybody all balled-up?

Just a guess? The fantastic claims, lack of proof and progress.

[jo maoma]

Just a guess? The fantastic claims, lack of proof and progress.

http://www.800phonenumbers.com/images/bullseye.jpg

[ACID_RAIN28]

Sorry, I was a bit off and recollected 1984, and not much dezert at the time either. Go back another 11 years and you'll be in the ballpark. That wiring would be section looms, mil spec flame resistant wire, and cannon plugs, not Painless. I'm honestly glad it is all seen as simple, dull, and boring. The entire drive layout, steering system, and the entire suspension are equally dull and boring. But they don't work the same. Simple by any casual observer.

You know, I never claimed the "Project" was any good or worth squat, only that it was comprehensive. While on the subject of Harry being "done, done, done", where did all that money actually go? That drive arrangement was considered early on and was turned down for several reasons. It is doomed to compromise in the areas of power, travel, axle geometry, CV longevity, suspension geometry, overall reliability, efficiency, fuel range, changing gear ratios, and maintenance costs. Does Harry excel in any of these areas?

Or did the money go into the suspension? If so, why carry over by-pass technology when other things work so well? Was consideration given as to its effects on unsprung weight or overall weight? Do your on-the-fly adjustable shocks take care of body roll? If so, does the system work under all conditions, in all directions? Is it instantly manual, automatic, or anywhere in between? No, then the system must do something even more important. I'm having a hard time thinking of what that might be on a Trophy Truck. I wonder if something that could affect body roll might naturally lend itself to affect ride height? Oops, did I say that?

Spares perhaps, but fuel up high and out the back, with IRS??? Oh well it's only fuel, 500 pounds of high polar moment one minute and gone the next.:)

Someone should be paying you guys for that air ducting.

Oh, good job on those upper arms. That's just about where the similarities end along with the blingless free pics. :)

Most TT and Class one car to date have wiring systems that are mil spec in every way, eliminating the need for replacement or service, unless the smoke is ever let out of the wires. Cannon plugs are standard as well as deutsch connectors (sp)
Power: Is delivered to the ground through the suspensions design better than anyone involved has ever experienced. The old truck with a 460 could not even be close to the 430 100hp less motor in Harry in a drag race.
Travel: 32"
Axle geometry: well within the operating range of the joint.
CV longevity: so far out living PPI
Range: FAR FAR FAR
Gear Ratio Change: Easy as a normal Truck, but don't see the need unless we are racing CORR with it.
Maintenance: Is PAR with ATTILA
Fuel load and polar moment, the car becomes more NEUTRAL with every gallon it burns, making it fast as it runs. Unlike our old car where it was rear biased empty.

I use the same aerospace clamp style to hold my mufflers on, and my fans are similarly mounted in a quick change fashion.
The box is changed in 15min very easy to get to as you can see.

As for the Active suspension, you have to ask your self, why, and what could I use it for. Where could one benefit from it at. Then it would become obvious why.

I'm not saying it is better than everyone else, but I know it excels in the areas it was designed for.

I guess we will just have to see yours at the starting line ;)

[FABRICATOR]

Maintenance: Is PAR with ATTILA
Fuel load and polar moment, the car becomes more NEUTRAL with every gallon it burns, making it fast as it runs. Unlike our old car where it was rear biased empty.

As for the Active suspension, you have to ask your self, why, and what could I use it for. Where could one benefit from it at. Then it would become obvious why.
:rolleyes:


Acid, no matter what this turns into I appreciate you stopping in and bringing something that really is new to the table. And the best of luck with Harry.

As far as thinking about what's important in terms of active suspension for dezert racing, I can think of nothing that would be more universally applicable to increased speed and safety than reducing body roll. Other things may enhance jumping ability or focus on squat, dive, etc. But none of these individually make up more than a tiny fraction of one's lap time. Looking at it from a current Trophy Truck point of view, body roll becomes a pretty serious obstacle when you are considering shaving off around 2,000 pounds of vehicle weight, while maintaining the same suspension travel. Adding to the challenge is that, IMHO, it is also entirely possible to put just as much horsepower to the ground.

Body roll greatly affects speed while cornering. It requires a sacrifice of ride height to maintain stability. It reduces or eliminates visual capacity under acceleration. It reduces rough terrain capability under braking and acceleration. And it creates significant performance and safety conflicts with the suspension.

Controlling body roll with a torsion bar is inadequate for several reasons. They are one dimensional. Though some can be adjusted or turned on or off on-the-fly, they have no active capabilities at all. They cause significant drag in soft terrain. And they constantly create performance wasting under-traction, and driveline damaging over-traction.


Acid, if you're looking for a head to head with something that, for the most part, was aimed at taking out the PPI Toyota and Arnold, here’s my WAG on it. I’d say you are running pretty close on overall weight, close on front and rear un-sprung ratios, 6% less driveline efficiency, a draw on front travel, 3% less rear travel, 10% higher overall drive train heat, 12% less fuel range, 30% higher maintenance costs, and 500% higher initial costs. I would also reason slower steering, less sensitive driver controls, less active suspension capability, and lower overall reliability.

I'm probably wrong, but it's my understanding that Harry doesn't quite have a differential with that back-to-back CV set up. If that's the case, it would support the excitement about traction as nothing would ever rival it. A very similar setup has been used for short course, but this isn't short course. If Harry really does have no differential, or other torque limiting device, I would say you will be doing one or more of the following; putting up with significant heartache for a very long time, dialing back on power and traction, or giving away some wheel travel when you finally do add a differential. A strategic difference between The "Project" and Harry is that from day one it used a planetary gear differential. We can let your gear man chew on that one. I'm still chewing on why an R&P on a clean slate?

Another man eater from many years ago.

[Dumfast]

Was looking on the Trever Harris web site at the Dirty Harry test photos...Looked like some sort of torque limiter on the axles..Or is that a slip joint for plunge?...Does anyone know?

[FABRICATOR]

As far as I know, Harry uses Rzeppa joints which means plunge has to be accommodated elsewhere. Although a torque fuse of some sort would be fairly simple, it would be difficult to design a predictable self-recovering torque limiter within that overall diameter. I would guess they are there for plunge.

Sorry all, I didn't mean to post an old picture. Memory is fading...:o

Although heavy, there is a possibility of running a Mercruiser EFI. Crazy? Perhaps, but they are torque monsters and can be quite economical.

If the first one is a go, a progressive opening 1,000 cfm T/B will go with it. FWIW, this system is high quality, long lasting, no leak, middle of the ocean and back, stuff. :)

Steering hydraulics will be filtered on the high side and screened on the low. Aluminum 3,000 psi working pressure rated filter.

Stewart Stage 4 in front of timing cover that is nestled into front motor plate. Plate is O-ringed front and rear for reliability and also to provide quick and painless pump service. Look ma, no hammer, no prying, no scraping, no glue, and no gaskets. :eek:

[Dumfast]

Fabricator...You mentioned a planetary differential ...I was doing a little reseach and learned the old FWD Toronados had a planetary diff and a very interesting engine/Trans layout..Is the "Project" in any way the same?...Are you currently working on it?....Is there a time frame for completion?..Any possibility of some engine/trans/rear suspension pictures?..

[Devin J]

Is it anywhere close to completion?

[FABRICATOR]

Fabricator...You mentioned a planetary differential ...I was doing a little reseach and learned the old FWD Toronados had a planetary diff and a very interesting engine/Trans layout..Is the "Project" in any way the same?...Are you currently working on it?....Is there a time frame for completion?..Any possibility of some engine/trans/rear suspension pictures?..


Is it anywhere close to completion?

Planetary differentials can be found in cars, trucks, and off-road equipment from forklifts to earth-movers. An advantage is that there are no bevel spider gears trying to push each other apart, but they offer other advantages as well. You don't see them everywhere because they are more expensive to make.

A few early Olsdmobile Toronados had planetary differentials but they would be limited to lighter duty off-road use. I have a couple of those on the shelf and they are nice units, right down to the needle bearing planets and clever lube system. That 'interesting engine/Trans layout' was used for many years on Toronados and Cadillac Eldorado's. The layout is not the same as the one used here. Sad to say, The "Project" has not been worked on for some time. But the shop did get a power upgrade and is finally being cleaned up. As mentioned, the suspensions, drive, and steering, have quite a bit of resources invested in them so pictures and indepth descriptions won't be flowing freely any time soon, if you know what I mean.

I was going to post a picture of a planetary differential that IMHO would be relevant to our sport, but got to thinking; how many, including major players in our sport, know what one looks like? One? Two? None? From somewhere near where we are now, and on, there is no difference between showing open aspiring minds some nifty things, and handing technology to the big dogs. Yea, I can hear it...the big dogs couldn't care less about these things. Give 'em time.

[glamisrnr]

How long have you been working on this project?

[partybarge_pilot]

So what's so top secret about a planetary diff? AKA Torsen T2? AKA Quaife ATB? AKA Detroit truetrac? I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few.

Anybody know where I can get one for a 35/40 spline unit for 9"/10" rearends.

[Rory]

So what's so top secret about a planetary diff? AKA Torsen T2? AKA Quaife ATB? AKA Detroit truetrac? I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few.

Anybody know where I can get one for a 35/40 spline unit for 9"/10" rearends.

Are you throwing rocks again partybarge? We'll have to put you in a corner until you behave yourself :D

[FABRICATOR]

How long have you been working on this project?
Forever, no doubt about it. However it has been reincarnated a couple of times. Think of building a small version of the very first Blackbird...pretty much by yourself.


So what's so top secret about a planetary diff? AKA Torsen T2? AKA Quaife ATB? AKA Detroit truetrac? I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few.

Anybody know where I can get one for a 35/40 spline unit for 9"/10" rearends.Sorry, I assumed most here knew what a real planetary gear system is. Ever see inside an automatic transmission or AWD transfer case?



Are you throwing rocks again partybarge? We'll have to put you in a corner until you behave yourself :D

That's okay, by "Big Dogs" I meant the top builders and gearbox designers on the planet, not uppity Chihuahuas with no teeth. :)

**********************************

IMHO, all the aftermarket differentials would be grenades in this environment. If you can, think of fully supported straight cut gears instead of unsupported little pasta shaped jobs waiting to chew the case up. Think incredibly strong with virtually no limit to torque, shock load, differential cycle, or longevity. Think of something lasting seasons, instead of just one race with your fingers crossed.

Is that it? Not by a long shot! Those are only the things that allowed it to be considered in the first place.

[partybarge_pilot]

Hey, you know what happens when you assume.......

Yes, I know very well what the inside of a transmission looks like, sun gear, planetary.... All that good stuff that looks a lot like the diffs I mentioned minus the interconnecting worms gears the do the actual torque splitting. Unless your actually trying to do gear reduction inside the diff with the planetary gears.

[FABRICATOR]

Okay, before anyone gets jacked up or excited, this picture has little to do with the drive layout of "The Project". However, it does show a differential that is very similar to what I'm talking about.

Unlike nearly every aftermarket type, these have an active [planetary] ring gear that properly engages the planet gears. Within the planet carrier, every planet gear is supported on its own dedicated shaft with a full complement of needle bearings.

The internal gear layout of the differential below is slighty different, as is the lock mechanism. But these differentials have no high-friction contact surfaces, no side thrusts anywhere, and no friction induced T/C. This means there is almost no heat generation or wear, ever. In an unlimited environment, there are other ways to maximize traction. Oh, and there is one other similarity to this one...NO EVIL R&P!!! ;)

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6891/ff12000fz3.jpg

[partybarge_pilot]

Actually, it does have a R&P, it's just far enough upstream that the majority of the gear reduction is after it. Looks like the old Ferrari box that Race-car engineering did an article on a couple years back.

Still, in those the planetary's aren't used for reduction, just torque split....... Kinda like all the units I listed before.......

[FABRICATOR]

Actually, it does have a R&P, it's just far enough upstream that the majority of the gear reduction is after it. Looks like the old Ferrari box that Race-car engineering did an article on a couple years back.

Still, in those the planetary's aren't used for reduction, just torque split....... Kinda like all the units I listed before.......

Apples to oranges and the shell game too! :rolleyes:

I think we know what a ring and pinion is. If you want to skew what component has arguably lost more dezert races or prevents the use of more horsepower, than any other, be my guest.

I never mentioned using the differential for reduction, nor would I have any desire to do such an illconcieved thing, especially with IRS.

The differential in the "The Project" is used for torque split, plain and simple. With all the money in the world, it would still remain that way. The only place in the drive I want lots of friction is where the tires meet the dirt. If you think the differential pictured above or the planetary assembly in an automatic transmission looks a lot like the ones you listed (see below), then you either have no clue as to what you are talking about, or you are well past the threshold of being legally blind. :cool:

The Torsen T2 and the Quaife ATB do not have an active [planetary] ring gear. Power is put directly into what amounts to a planet carrier. The planet gears are the ones that look (and would act) like endmill cutters.

Got to give it to ya PB, yea, it's kinda like all the ones you mentioned, except for the little things like construction, operation, power flow, and purpose. :rolleyes:
http://www.torsen.com/images/T2Rphoto_wpl.jpghttp://www.quaife.co.uk/assets/ATB-diff-Bamber-cutaway28033.jpg

[Devin J]

I hate to bother you, but is there any more progress?

[philofab]

Very complicated.... more parts to fail...

At least it looks that way at first glance.

[FABRICATOR]

I hate to bother you, but is there any more progress?
Due to other duties there is no progress to report at this time.

Very complicated.... more parts to fail...

At least it looks that way at first glance.
If you're talking about the aftermarket friction generators, yes.

***********

Although the differential is a critical part of the car and a significant project in itself, it still represents only a small piece of the overall puzzle. It also would be fairly useless without generous power and capable suspension.

****************************

Another item to help keep power going to the ground is this accumulator for the transmission. With unusual accelerations it was felt that there would be unusual demands on the transmission. As mentioned recently, IMHO interruptions to transmission pressures can and do cause problems. Its primary function, of course, is to keep clutche(s) tightly engaged. But it is also capable of doing some other nifty things, one of which is allowing the car to be push started.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/12-27-08-reservoir022.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/12-27-08-reservoir013.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/12-27-08-reservoir005.jpg

[CaptinCrash]

how does it allow the car to be bump started

[philofab]

It "stores" pressure that is used to apply the bands and clutches. Pressure is normally made by the front pump which is run by the engine, not the driveshaft.

Some transmissions have a rear pump that builds pressure for bump starting too.

[GunnSlinger]

Genius!!!!

[David Kennedy]

I worked on something similar for a TH700R4 back in 2002. I called it the "Autocrawler", and my intention was to have an automatic transmissions for off-road use that offered all of the functionality of a manual transmission, while gaining the advantages of an automatic.

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticles/131_0302_rockcrawling_automatic_transmission/index.html

The project began with a full-reverse-manual valve body that Greg Friend at TCI built for me to retained the overrun clutch application feature so it still gave the vehicle compression braking. As some of you know, most reverse-manual valve bodies for drag racing applications do not offer any compression braking.

Anyway, I wanted to be able to "push start" the engine with the Autocrawler transmission, so I contacted Moroso about using its Accumulator, but Moroso wasn't sure that it would handle 400psi of mainline transmission pressure. Moroso recommend I contact Canton Racing, which makes the Accusump.

I'm not sure what pressure the Accusump is rated for, but it handled all the pressure I threw at it.

[Haycock]

Okay, before anyone gets jacked up or excited, this picture has little to do with the drive layout of "The Project". However, it does show a differential that is very similar to what I'm talking about.

Unlike nearly every aftermarket type, these have an active [planetary] ring gear that properly engages the planet gears. Within the planet carrier, every planet gear is supported on its own dedicated shaft with a full complement of needle bearings.

The internal gear layout of the differential below is slighty different, as is the lock mechanism. But these differentials have no high-friction contact surfaces, no side thrusts anywhere, and no friction induced T/C. This means there is almost no heat generation or wear, ever. In an unlimited environment, there are other ways to maximize traction. Oh, and there is one other similarity to this one...NO EVIL R&P!!! ;)

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/6891/ff12000fz3.jpg


a planitary diff is a good strong setup! most dozers run a planetary diff and the take some abuse...

[WannaB-class5]

I hate to bother you, but is there any more progress?

You do know FAB is not a God or King right?

FAB, why the undertones of perfection and Chaucer-like verbage? You realize you are just building a car for driving over bumps right? In fact you are not so much building it as think-tanking it. I am a fan of the approach (I work in the aerospace industry) and we basically do this for everything we ever build.

I guess I don't get the point of "El Projecto." Who is the customer, real or imagined? What is the goal? Go 200mph over dirt? Win every baja 1000 ever entered? Have fun? I get that you are making parts modular and light and easy to fix but why? Is this just a skunk project meant to push boundaries? We do lots of that at my work so that would make sense. Some of it gets used on real projects, some is before its time...some after.

Now I know you are going to say something like nebulous and overly simple and tell me "you didn't set out to please everyone so thanks for the input" but if that were the case you'd lose the mythical/epic/hero-like story telling.

PS, other than this thread, I have taken most things you say on RDC as almost bible. I guess thats why this thread bugs me so much.

I'll end with a quote from a theoretical aerospace engineer. "Even those things that have yet to be invented have a practical application."

[TallKewl7]

You do know FAB is not a God or King right?

FAB, why the undertones of perfection and Chaucer-like verbage? You realize you are just building a car for driving over bumps right? In fact you are not so much building it as think-tanking it. I am a fan of the approach (I work in the aerospace industry) and we basically do this for everything we ever build.

I guess I don't get the point of "El Projecto." Who is the customer, real or imagined? What is the goal? Go 200mph over dirt? Win every baja 1000 ever entered? Have fun? I get that you are making parts modular and light and easy to fix but why? Is this just a skunk project meant to push boundaries? We do lots of that at my work so that would make sense. Some of it gets used on real projects, some is before its time...some after.

Now I know you are going to say something like nebulous and overly simple and tell me "you didn't set out to please everyone so thanks for the input" but if that were the case you'd lose the mythical/epic/hero-like story telling.

PS, other than this thread, I have taken most things you say on RDC as almost bible. I guess thats why this thread bugs me so much.

I'll end with a quote from a theoretical aerospace engineer. "Even those things that have yet to be invented have a practical application."

I COMPLETELY agree with what this poster says! I've read through this entire thread (all 11 pages) and it seems more a theoretical brain exercise than anything else. It is a little bit intimidating in it's tone, almost like I'm not worthy. Maybe that's the intent?

For a ''Show and Tell" section, there's very little "Tell" and even less "Show". The fact that this thread was begun almost 2 years ago and nothing substantive has come of it is astounding!

I'm not hating on FABRICATOR, I've seen his posts on here and he seems very knowledgeable and helpful. It just seems to be placed in the wrong section to me.

Marshall

[TallKewl7]

The transaxle cutaway clearly shows an "evil R&P", just not in your normal location. (Look below your planetary gearset)

Unless you plan on running a transverse engine layout, there would have to be a ring and pinion in the drivetrain equation somewhere.

Marshall

[Haycock]

The transaxle cutaway clearly shows an "evil R&P", just not in your normal location. (Look below your planetary gearset)

Unless you plan on running a transverse engine layout, there would have to be a ring and pinion in the drivetrain equation somewhere.

Marshall


look at the reduction after the ring and pinion though. that takes a butt load of load off of the R&P.

[partybarge_pilot]

I think we know what a ring and pinion is. If you want to skew what component has arguably lost more dezert races or prevents the use of more horsepower, than any other, be my guest.


Try to keep up guys........

[FABRICATOR]

I worked on something similar...

Interesting. I would imagine serious crawling generates serious converter heat.

I did not design or even spec the accumulator pictured. I simply found it and liked it. It is way overkill, but at that quality, weight, and price, it was hard to pass up.

The setup here...
is 100% plumbed with ss hard line,
uses a surplus aircraft 24v continuous duty solenoid valve,
has the valve by the trans - not the accumulator,
has a specific sized orifice at the trans,
is actuated with the ignition so pressure is automatically saved,
is actuated with the ignition so it does not flood the pan,
has an on-off switch for additional control, if needed,
can provide about 2 quarts of ATF in reserve after a moderate trans leak,
would probably still today be the first like this on a dezert race truck,
has a complete system weight of 10 pounds, not including the fluid,
is completely simple, unobtrusive, and failsafe.


a planetary diff is a good strong setup! most dozers run a planetary diff and the take some abuse...
The power density and life cycle are beyond compare.
Again, I've never seen one in off-road racing.

[Dumfast]

Any updates...Some new pics...Anything?

[jeff]

I really like this thread. Always something cool to think about. An accumulator eh? Might need to find some more room under Anna.

Aloha

[amerikanmade]

I'm ready for some more updates/decaying polaroids. The battle between the two genius' party_barge and ?fabricator? always facinates me.

[Durty_white_boy]

I heard that a while back someone put a outboard race boat motor from a formula one boat in a offroad truck or buggy anyone know of such a vehicle? is this it?

[1450-ranger]

There was a Lothringer CL 1 or 10 that ran an outboard engine a few years back in MORE. Not sure if it is still out racing.

[FABRICATOR]

Great Iwo Jima avatar, Amerikanmade!

Well, unfortunately, this will also have to use a “bait and switch” picture, sorry. I'll have to assume (just for PBP:)) that it's still better than nothing. If not, please use the back button. If you have verbage concerns, skip down to list now. Customer? Your's truly, but there were other beneficiaries. Extreme spec's? Yes, they tend to follow extreme expect's. In the wrong place? Yes, it should be out testing, laid out in a book, or scrapped altogether. Outboard boat motor? I don't recall ever seeing a 500 inch Chevy outboard. :)

Looking a bit further into the inner workings, something else different here is the steering system, yes the steering system. IMHO, just like a superb engine or suspension, a steering system can deliver a fabulous performance all its own. To do this it needs to be unusually quick, smooth, agile, and powerful. The basics of this system predate any serious power rack-and-pinion system built for the dezert. But IMHO, its power, strength, simplicity, and low cost are still a rival for any heavy Class 1 or Trophy-Truck system of today, or the later $30K Toyota unit shown below. I would also estimate it to have significantly greater reliability, speed, sensitivity, longevity, resistance to contamination, and resistance to leakage; all while requiring less maintenance.

Other than having a rotational output, the steering "box" pictured below doesn't really have much to do with the one on The "Project". Again, a lot of time and effort went into this so bits and pieces will have to do for now. Hopefully, the spec’s will shed some light on what the system does and, perhaps more importantly, does not have. What this system doesn't have are many common sources of friction, shafts exposed to dust or damage, seals exposed to high movement or high pressure, flopping hoses, and expensive or high wearing parts. From the steering wheel to the steering knuckles, the system is designed to last an entire season of dezert racing with nothing more than regular inspections. Again, if you are or become familiar with this system, please keep it to yourself for now.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/ram768x512.jpg


Rick Sieman photo

STEERING SYSTEM:

Power unit-make/model: proprietary w/standard components, TT
Ratio: variable, ~1 turn lock-to-lock
Purpose: high reliability, high rate, high sensitivity, low maintenance

Input:
Configuration: shaft, horizontal, 13/16" 36 spline
External valve: none
Reverser: none
Quickener: none
Angle gears: none

Output:
Configuration: shaft, vertical, straight-spline (segment) w/pinch bolt, lubricated roller bearing
Slider(s): none (of any kind)
Assist ram(s): none
Swing set(s): none
Idler arm(s): none
Swivel rod ends (Heims): none
Tie rod ends: sealed, lubricated, rolling element bearings
External levers/bell cranks/parallelograms: none (one steering arm, two tie rods)

Power assist:
Configuration: hydraulic, multi-acting
Supply pressure: 1,200 to 1,600 PSI
Supply flow: 3.5-4.5 GPM
Fluid type: ATF E or F, Dexron-all, 10w-40 or 15w-40 motor oil
Fluid control: internal, standard type rotary valve
Response effort: standard, mildly adjustable up or down for driver or terrain
External plumbing: none (1 supply & 1 return)

Mechanical/Misc:
Mechanical/failsafe: yes, constant mesh, recirculating ball-screw
Steering shaft, input: single, full floating, Spicer truck/bus unit, Nylon coat slider
U-joints: 2 ea, Spicer, high angle, needle bearing, greasable
Steering wheel: ball bearing support, quick release, (updated to Momo 'Trek')
Rotation @ box: ~50 degrees
Rotation @ wheels: ~84 degrees
Tie rods: 1 each side, behind axle
Steering “box” weight: ~60 pounds (complete)
Box c/g above floor: ~6.5”
Stops: internal & external
Mounting: 4 bolt, horizontal plane
Reservoir: ~1 qt. remote fill + pump sump
Plumbing: .500 OD ss hard lines, all
Cooling: air-to-oil
Port size: -8 straight thread O-ring
Filtration: pressure side 10 micron, suction side 40 micron
“Box” change out time: approx. 12 minutes

*specifications subject to change without notice. ;)

**************************
Nice animation of a planet diff and other cool things at work (don't forget to hit HQ):
YouTube - Sneaky peek of the Red Bull RB5

[Dumfast]

Anything new to show or hint at?....

[FABRICATOR]

Anything new to show or hint at?....

Yes, pretty much the entire vehicle. Any areas of interest?

[Dumfast]

Oh lets see.....How about the front suspension (links,pivots or ?)..Transmission, Rear diff, Rear suspension..Steering system......You know..The little stuff:)

[Lance T]

I'm interested in the...

Position sensitive front suspension is totally new, uses a link system with a single coil-over shock absorber per side and provides a true 27 inches of vertical travel. This suspension applies position sensitivity more efficiently and smoothly than systems using a by-pass type shock absorber.

Omni directional, electronically controlled, body anti-roll system. Driver has continuous control of several operating modes. System is completely fail-safe. Modes include: full or semi-automatic operation, and manual input /interrupt.

Powerful unitized dual-piston direct connected steering box will provide very sensitive, precise, and quick steering control. Steering wheel lock to lock position is just over 1 turn!

Rear suspension is IRS (Independent Rear Suspension) with a true 33 inches of vertical travel. Final drive has efficient, non-plunging Rzeppa type CV joints. (No cross-groove joints).

The transaxle will be a 3 speed semi-automatic with torque converter drive. Gear ratio can be changed in minutes. Transaxle has NO RING AND PINION gears!

Power: Mid mounted, all aluminum 500 cubic inch big block Chevrolet engine! This big motor will provide superior throttle response, reliability, and mileage.

A large 79 gallon fuel cell is located on the floor in front of the mid-mounted engine.

Wheels: 17" x 8.25", high backspaced, bead-locked, 8-lug bolt pattern.

Have a drawing of what you wheels were/are going to look like?

[Dumfast]

Lance T..Where did you find this info?....Some of it is in this thread but not stuff like the suspension info..Did I miss something!?

[Lance T]

I read it off a website that was mentioned in this thread. I tried to check that the info was in this thread...hmmm, too late for me to edit that post.

[Dumfast]

Any progress?...Anything you can show?

[FABRICATOR]

I put something together weeks ago but it turned into a friggen book. Now I'm working on cutting it back down into something manageable. It will likely be a rundown of all major components, which is kind of a big and delicate job when they're different from the norm. Thanks.

[jesusgatos]

We like to read (and look at lots of pictures). Post up!

[Dumfast]

Still waiting for the "Project" book....Anything?

[Zac Reish]

Can I have the last half hour of my life back. wake me up when something interesting has taken place in this thread. No offense to your knowledge and abilities in offroad motor sports but my gosh not only is that project collecting dust so is this thread.

[jo maoma]

there is no actual car. this thread is all part of an incredibly
elaborate viral marketing campaign for a new soft drink....









:D

[Combz08]

Hell how secretive this thing has been it might as well be a cure for cancer!!

[FABRICATOR]

I pulled a part off the car the other day to dust it off and show. After all this time, it is still my idea of what a Trophy-Truck/C1 steering shaft should look like. It is also a very good example of the expensive, complex, voodoo-like rocket science that is used throughout every inch of this entire car. There may be other units like it in the dezert, but I have never seen one. The shaft is a Spicer unit from a big-rig truck. It is built plain and simple, for absolute reliability, extreme longevity, low maintenance, and practical pricing. The U-joints are huge (nearly 1" cup!) needle bearing type, with ridiculous articulation, very low friction under load, and are greasable. The splines are standard industry 1" truck on the steering wheel end, and large Ross, Sheppard, Saginaw, type box on the other end. Both ends are made up of all forged pieces. The large (7/16" shank!) through-bolts are used to facilitate pinch and to create an interlocking fit with each steering shaft. The main tube diameter is a hefty 1.75" and can be modified for length as needed. The entire unit is very easy to remove and install, any number of times. The slip joint is sealed, greasable, Teflon coated, and allows this one to adjust from 35"-43" overall length. All the seals and bearings are replaceable. The assembly is somewhat beastly at 11.1 pounds, but at least 3 pounds of excess slider bar can be cut off, making it quite competitive against all the aftermarket toys. Right off the shelf, this unit would survive at least 25 Baja 1000's, a Lou Ferrigno adrenaline rush from a hydraulics failure, and should last the entire life of the vehicle with little to no maintenance...ever. This one costs about $240 a few years back. They come in many shapes, sizes, now even aluminum, and are available all around the world. :D

[RoosterBooster]

lol ...that is exactly the same shaft i have ...


under the hood of my Peterbilt ;)

i guess if it is suitable to steer 46" tires under a big block N14 cummins (that weights as much as a complete truggy :P) it will be plenty strong for a TT

[Dumfast]

Anything new to show?....Its been 2 months......Throw us a bone here!....

[FABRICATOR]

lol ...that is exactly the same shaft i have ...


under the hood of my Peterbilt ;)

i guess if it is suitable to steer 46" tires under a big block N14 cummins (that weights as much as a complete truggy :P) it will be plenty strong for a TT


Anything new to show?....Its been 2 months......Throw us a bone here!....

I did have a little more on the steering shaft which I know has been in production for ~20 years...:rolleyes: IMHO, steering input requirements between a high speed dezert-rig, and a big-rig, are just about the same. This vehicle borrows many things from big trucks, including most of the steering system, the charging system, a couple suspension pieces, and the layout of the cooling system.
_

At 150mph+ in the desert..., I wanted to have steering components held together by more than set-screws or roll pins. The lower end of the main steering shaft connects directly to the steering 'box' with all the bells and whistles that make it reliable. The upper end of the main shaft needed to connect to the steering wheel shaft in the same manner. Finding the right shaft for this over-the-counter was not so easy and that meant making the shaft from scratch. Pictured is a spline practice piece I made that’s been kicking around the shop for a while. It was cut from 1” 4130N material and has splines, blank sections, a flat, and a large bolt notch. It may look a little complicated, but the machining is fairly simple and quick once all the clocking is figured out. I made this with a dividing head on a vertical mill. The shaft on the car is about 8” long and has a Q/R hub fit and welded to one end. The huge ball bearings at the steering head are widely spaced, sealed, offer low friction under load, and are also capable of lasting the life of the vehicle with little to no maintenance ever. The head itself is just a piece of 4130 tube with some light machining for the bearings and snap rings. There are some details to observe if you machine a spline piece like this, such as keeping machine and D/head backlash out, using a cutter with the proper angle and slight radius, etc. But overall, the part is very simple, effective, durable, and inexpensive. It can also be drilled to reduce weight, or made from tubing instead of bar stock. I learned very early on, that to continue my work, I would have to do most of my own machining. Thanks for asking.

[FABRICATOR]

Early style bump can, made in a few minutes on mill with simple tools. Possible on a drill press with some care. Large oval hole made almost entirely with the beefed up 1-3/4" hole saw. Quick trim with small end mill, bevel with file. Tapered oval tube made from split .120" and 2ea .120" plates. Saw shank is a 3/4", 12 point, AN fastener, and is beyond rigid and easily reusable. The hole saw itself is many times more rigid when held this way and can make several hundred cuts in 1.75" 4130N tubing. Pinch bolt is 3/8". Pieces fit so cool, I couldn't resist a quick shave with an air sander. ;)

[scottm]

What are those nuts?

[cusico]

You need to set up those hole saws Grease style coming out of the hubs.

[FABRICATOR]

You need to set up those hole saws Grease style coming out of the hubs.

As in Ben Hur style wheel scythes? The only cars or trucks nearby would be lapped ones, they have enough trouble already. :D


What are those nuts?

They were originally aquired for the transaxle but ended up all over. They are a 3/8 thread, 12-point, internal drive, wirable, AN fastener. Kind of handy though, as a 3/8" square drive fits them snugly and strongly. Enough so, that we could not induce a drive failure. This makes them very easy to use at the roadside, or even in the dark.

[Devin J]

Any more progress? I really want to see this thing!

[Kid Rok]

Are you using the trans to power hydraulics for the rear so called axle.
Just a guess, I think I read somewhere that your trans was putting out alot of pressure. Plus that would explain why theres not a shifter.
I have seen something similar on a street sweeper. It connects directly to the ring and pinion. I have thought about this for a rock crawler to eliminate driveshafts, but didn't think I could get the speed needed.

Enjoyed the read.

[SWALLDOG]

#2) Bead formed in 1.75 x .050 Al tube with "homemade" beading tool.


Any chance on gettin a pic of the bead roller in this post? I'm in process of makin one and would be intrested in seeing it. thanks

any more updates on the project?

[FABRICATOR]

Any chance on gettin a pic of the bead roller in this post? I'm in process of makin one and would be intrested in seeing it. thanks

any more updates on the project?

Pretty self explanitory, clamps into a vise and will bead just about any tube of any material.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/tuberollersmall.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/tuberollerasmall.jpg

[Dumfast]

Come on Fab...Gotta be somethin new....Throw us a bone........Please

[FABRICATOR]

Are you using the trans to power hydraulics for the rear so called axle.

Just a guess, I think I read somewhere that your trans was putting out alot of pressure. Plus that would explain why theres not a shifter.

I have seen something similar on a street sweeper. It connects directly to the ring and pinion. I have thought about this for a rock crawler to eliminate driveshafts, but didn't think I could get the speed needed.

Enjoyed the read.

Sorry for the delay, and thanks. I’ve been reflecting over the question, not ignoring it. Hydraulic drives have much to offer and could be in the future, but there are many design obstacles to overcome for dezert racing. In every sense of the word, this race car has a transaxle. I can only get into some of what makes it work, some of what it can do, and some of what it doesn’t have. IMHO, a transaxle can be the ‘seed crystal’ to the design of the entire rest of the car.





http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/Turbo400internals.jpg?t=1281571841 There is a shifter for this transaxle. It's just not where you would normally find it, and it can be operated with your hands on the wheel. Except for the torque converter, the power flow path from the crankshaft to the rear tires is all mechanical. There is no new or weird science involved; all of it is well proven in large numbers and brutal environments around the world. The whole thing is as basic and overkill as the steering shaft a few posts back, and likewise, built to take B1K’s in stride. It uses some GM Hydra-Matic ‘Turbo-400’ type internals and a torque converter drive. It has no shift forks, shafts, dogs, detents, synchronizers, or drums. There is no clutch, pedal, or linkage. Gear housing stress is low to moderate during even the harshest shifts or vehicle landings, and you can do what ever your heart desires in reverse gear. The very robust A356-T6 aluminum casting was done by Astro Foundry (now defunct) in Burbank, CA, makers of head/cylinder units for full-size aircraft engines. The molds are still around. The oversized 4340/300m shafts and high-nickel gears were produced by an East Coast maker of racing transmissions. Weight wise, the unit is a beast, but it is competitively compact.





http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/brokenringandpinionno.jpg Like any dezert racing transaxle, this one too is a singular mechanical unit that bolts directly to the engine, with no V-drive, no U-joints, and no inter-section shafts or couplings. There is nothing to align, clock, grease, vibrate, bind, fall apart, or adjust. It cannot strip or break a ring and pinion the way other transaxles do. This unit is specifically designed for high reversing torque loads, high reliability, optimized physical dimensions, and very minimal maintenance. There is a valve body, of sorts, so shifting is carried out through a simple push-pull cable. Shifting is naturally sequential, takes virtually zero time even under full throttle, and can be upgraded to occur automatically. There are 2 separate filtered and cooled lube oil circuits. One runs through a water/oil heat exchanger, the other through an air/oil cooler. Allison (GM) style residual pressure valves at the returns keep the cooling circuits full at all times. There is a closable line pressure fluid accumulator for the clutch application circuits. Unlike most race cars, which have indirect cooling of some or all gear sections; all gearing in this transaxle is cooled by circulating, direct-contact lube oil.









http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/image0023.jpg The final drive employs no stress multipliers such as a spool, solidly coupled back-to-back CV joints, bevel spider gears, roller clutches, tooth count ratios greater than 4:1, or other problematic methods. Every effort was made to avoid having any gears that go out of mesh, slide on shafts, or have excessively high contact pressure. The differential is a full-blown, straight-cut, planetary gear system similar to F1 racing. It is bulldozer simple and reliable, with no squiggly gears, and no side or end thrusts of any kind. The differential unit and all rotating parts run on oversized anti-friction bearings. Other than the torque converter and tires, there are no friction-driven traction devices of any kind. Though not anticipated necessary, there is a driver controlled positive differential lock. Drive ratios are changeable and currently range from 2.72:1 to 5.42 to 1. The design final ratio is a comparatively high (low numerical) ratio of 3.91 to 1. The gearing will work well with the high torque engine, low-stall converter, and low vehicle weight.





http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/9-18-10gearcasesmalld017.jpg IMHO, the simple and straightforward design of this transaxle was, and still is, capable of providing unparalleled performance in the areas of power capacity, reliability, longevity, and packaging. It will do this with comparatively high efficiency, and low costs. In this application, it will help give the driver better than average control of rear bite, good fuel mileage, unmatched cruise capability, and very easy operation. It will provide any top speed the driver wants for any length of time. The throttle is to be a major player in performance and handling of this truck. 4,500 RPM is ~125 MPH.

[FABRICATOR]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/500shortblock.jpghttp://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/rod_cpr_h.jpghttp://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/s3-full.jpg
I thought I would post up my idea of an engine for a TT, especially this one :). It’s nothing exotic; in fact, it’s just the opposite and very simple. It’s a venerable Mark IV Big-Block Chevrolet, with a displacement of 496 cubic inches (8.1L). (It has nothing to do with the later, long-stroke GEN VII 496). This engine is built to provide a true meaning of flat torque curve, strong throttle response from just above idle, and be able to run for hundreds of race hours. The displacement may seem big compared to present TT's, but in reality, the others are disproportionately undersized. In mild tune, the engine puts this truck at under 6.5 LB/HP and 8.5 LB/CI. With a responsive yet progressive intake system and a very low-stall torque converter, there is to be no waiting for things to spool up and grab while going for a holeshot, exiting a turn, or any other situation. Traction is by throttle, now. The engine is mid-mounted, which makes it continuously favorable to ride, traction, handling, and the laying out of other components. Despite its size, there really are no compromises to vehicle performance, weight, balance, packaging, efficiency, or cost. Unlike forward placed big-blocks, this one doles no brutality to the suspension. Though the engine is strongly and thoroughly mounted within the chassis, there is no structure added for it. As for fuel consumption and drive train stress; peak torque won’t much exceed that of the top, pro-built TT small-blocks. The effective RPM operating range will be wider and at least 1,000 RPM lower. There is no need for any driveline segment to be under-driven or over-driven.






http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/AFR.jpg http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/drysumpX-1.gifhttp://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/wetsump-1.gif
With ~10.5:1 compression, the engine can run on good pump gas. In comparison to the big displacement small-blocks found in most TT’s, the larger 4.440 bore (by 4.00 stroke) not only makes room for larger valves, but provides a major unshrouding of them as well. The better breathing is further enhanced by the RAT motor’s splayed valve design. Cylinder heads are AFR 305cc “as cast” with CNC’d chambers. But even these humble stump pullers, by just .500” lift, will outflow most any small-block style head at any lift. The relatively mild cam timing, valve lift, and RPM, along with some other simplifications, significantly raise reliability, raise longevity, and lower costs. An innovative but simple off-shore wet-sump oil system, and high volume marine type pump and aluminum oil pan, are used to greatly reduce clutter around the chassis, raise reliability, and again, lower costs. This is not a Chevelle or Silverado engine begging for nice treatment and lots of luck. It is 100% from *companies like World Products, AFR, Callies, Childs & Albert, Crower, JE, Jesel, ARP, etc. (*Not endorsements and may change at any time!) It also is not just 50 to 80 cubic inches more of the same overextended thing. This unit is capable of generating an honest and reliable 500 ft/lbs torque by ~2,000 RPM, and 600+ ft/lbs torque from ~3,100 to 6,700 RPM. With shifting pretty much when ever you get to it, and revs limited to ~7,000 RPM, the driver’s attention can be focused elsewhere and opportunity for error minimized.




http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/500Chevy.jpg http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/bootscoop.jpg
A 1:1 belt driven high volume/high pressure water pump, front mounted radiator, dual thermostats, and oversized high-mounted purge tank, make up a cooling system that is much like that of a big-rig truck. A pair of contorted, but otherwise typical 2” equal length headers, make up the exhaust. The latest plan… called for a multi-port, long runner EFI, with a progressive opening 2-shaft, 2-barrel 1,000cfm throttle-body. Also in the plan is a short detachable "snorkel" to quietly bring in (did someone say ram?) cooler, cleaner air from just above the cab roof, or perhaps, from openings in the leading edge of the large roof/wing, with air flowing back within the wing. From there, air feeds to a neatly tucked away, very long range, centrifugal truck type air cleaner. The block, heads, intake, motor plates, oil pan, water pump, valve covers, and timing cover, are aluminum. The Advance Marine valve covers trim some overall width even while stretching over shaft rockers, but make her look like a dang BBF. The engine is like your typical Trophy-Truck unit but with some extra strength, an easier life, and a never-ending blast of nitrous at lower RPM’s.:) I don’t know of any other type of gasoline engine that can provide as much usable power, reliability, or longevity. Regardless of the budget, point standing, or seriousness; if it didn't over heat, run low on oil, or breath lots of dust, it won’t need a tear down after every race. Approximate cost NEW w/basic EFI system: ~$20k. Minimal prep & pump gas: priceless :)


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/496-chevy-1.jpg

[FABRICATOR]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/image22.gif http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/convel/CAR/fuelpump3-1.jpg The Fuel Cell is nothing special, but it does hold more fuel than most and sits where few TT’s have them sit (except the PPI Toyota). Its capacity is ~79 gallons after the foam, and it sits directly on the floor near the middle of the chassis. This all helps to provide good range, low polar moment of inertia, and low center of gravity. Helping to push that CG as low as possible is a cell footprint on the floor of roughly 1,122 square inches. No part of the cell resides under or between the seats. Though it is strongly and thoroughly supported, there is no structure added for the cell. Unlike the PPI Toyota’s center mounted cell, this one is not a structural part of the chassis. Regardless of the fuel level, its mid-mounted location is continuously favorable to ride, handling, and the layout of other components.

The firewall forward of cell is aluminum. The firewall, engine and exhaust shielding aft of the cell, are all stainless or other robust, higher temperature metal. Fuel inlets include a dry-break on one side of the cab, and a 3” cap on the other. To avoid a fueling disaster, or splashing fuel where it shouldn't go, each fill is located in a large capacity all-metal spillway that directs misplaced product to the ground. To reduce clutter and improve safety, there is a triple in-tank pump arrangement, each with its own power source. The design is similar to the one pictured but is ‘militarized’. The assembly fits into a fuel maze/trap arrangement and is surrounded by a fine-screen pre-filter. It uses an OEM style, 2-step return system. Pump power is disabled if the cell is other than right side up.

The cell may seem oversized for such a light vehicle, but it fit in with no significant compromise to safety, performance, weight, balance, packaging, maintenance, or cost. It adds flexibility to when and where you fuel, which is something that can win or loose races. When combined with comparatively low vehicle weight, a drive train with exceptional cruise capability, a low stall torque converter, and EFI; fuel range is expected to be ~300 race miles.

[squirelmurphy]

Thank you, sir. Look forward to more.

[Dumfast]

Very cool!..Thanks for the new info..What does that motor weigh?..Would a 572 be a good choice also?

[scottm]

Wow, nice. That trans is awesome. How does the power turn 90° without a ring and pinion? 45° bevel gears? I like your engine philosophy, especially the wet sump. How often have you seen a ds engine lose the belt and grenade? With some drainback enhancements, a good pan with some custom baffling, and an accusump accumulator, my oil pressure warning light has never once flashed, and that includes a million flights over the 100+ foot tabletop at speedworld.

[FABRICATOR]

Thank you, sir. Look forward to more.
You are welcome. I'll see what I can dig up.


Very cool!..Thanks for the new info..What does that motor weigh?..Would a 572 be a good choice also?
Serious race blocks and heavy duty heads keep the weight savings from being anything spectacular, so the overall savings is only about 200 pounds less than an all iron BBC. I haven't ever weighed it but I'm sure it tops 500 pounds with the oil system. There are limitless size and gearing combinations that could work. If you build a BBC for torque (unbuild?) and tailor the drive train to use that torque, there is more than enough power available even from a 427 inch setup. The breathing is that much better. IMHO, when you go much over 500 cubic inches with 10.5:1 or higher compression, the torque will become more difficult to use and more likely to cause damage. A small block would move this car faster than any other car, the BBC is just to save money. :)


Wow, nice. That trans is awesome. How does the power turn 90° without a ring and pinion? 45° bevel gears? I like your engine philosophy, especially the wet sump. How often have you seen a ds engine lose the belt and grenade? With some drainback enhancements, a good pan with some custom baffling, and an accusump accumulator, my oil pressure warning light has never once flashed, and that includes a million flights over the 100+ foot tabletop at speedworld.
Thank you. I can't discuss specifics, and not saying it's the same thing, but there is another transaxle/differential on this forum that does not use an R&P for the final reduction. Good to hear on your oil system. This one is nothing complex and very reliable.

[Dumfast]

Is the wheelbase 125" or is it longer?....Is it SCORE legal with the bigger tubing requirements?

[FABRICATOR]

Is the wheelbase 125" or is it longer?....Is it SCORE legal with the bigger tubing requirements?

That's a good question. I haven't really kept up with every rule change. However, I do know that it can beat the 4k threshold by using a small block and a couple other 'omissions'. So unless something has changed again, the answer would be, 'it depends'. The wheelbase is 125".

[Dumfast]

Are you using CV's or U-Joints?

[FABRICATOR]

Are you using CV's or U-Joints?

Non-plunging type CV's

non-plunging

[burninfuel]

We need some more pics of the beast, feed us some crumbs