Fire Suppression Systems-Coldfire

[Bajades]

I am looking for a fire suppression system for a Class 1 car we are building. Does anyone have recommendations for a particular system? Does anyone have any experience with the "Cold Fire" vehicle systems. Its seems to have some definite advantages over halon, but I don't have any experience with it.
(http://coldfiresupersystems.com/inde...13&Itemi d=27)

[Superfab]

I personally dont think that the coldfire system works as well as the halon systems. They are a wet soapy agent. I still prefer the firebottle systems brand halon systems.
Drag racers are stuck with the wet type of fire systems and they wish they had the good old halon ones. Funny cars tend to light them selves on fire quite a bit .

[ndvalium]

I am sure that everyone will have various opinions and experiences when a question like this comes up. Both systems have their place in my opinion. As a member of the rescue group for SCORE, Best in the Desert and National Sand Drag Association, I have put out numerous race related fires over the years.

We exclusively use Cold Fire or Fire Ade 2000 for one reason. The wetting agent smothers the fire and eliminates flare up of Oil and Fuel Fires. The Halon will put it out, but does not seem to help in flare ups after the fact.

I beleive as almost all Desert Races have accidents or fires typically away from emergency responders, flare up would be key to any fire suppression.

[AZ45]

It looks like an AFFF system, but I coudn't really tell from the website. There aruments for both Halon and AFFF, but for off road it's hard to argue with AFFF for the reasons
already mentioned, such as flare ups. We have a very reasonably priced(349.00), high quality system that's user rechargable if necessary.

http://www.upr.com/categories/racewear.asp?id=2213

[Chris_Wilson]

Halon works by replacing the oxygen and won't work in a open environment in the wind when the wind can blow away the Halon and allow the oxygen to continue to feed the fire. I converted my prerunner's built in flame out system from Halon to ColdFire for this reason.

Supplemental to this I have dry chemical extingushers mounted outside the cockpit on each side where you can quickly grab them after bailing out. Inside the cockpit it's a good idea to have the main battery switch within reach along with another backup extinguisher to grab after hitting the flame out and killing the batteries.

[AZ45]

Good points Chris.

Another part of the equation is how consistent the stream is after the system is activated. Most pressurized systems will start out at the max and as the system is discharging the pressure is reduced, so the coverage is reduced. The neat thing about the AFFF system we sell is that it uses an external pressure source that will remain at full capacity until all of the chemical has been exhausted.

[Bajades]

I contacted ColdFire to see if there is a difference between it and other AFFF systems. This is what they had to say:

"There are many advantages to ColdFire over AFFF.
ColdFire is environmentally friendly, AFFF is not
ColdFire removes the heat immediately from the fire, AFFF doesn't
ColdFire is not a health hazard, AFFF is

ColdFire is what you want to protect you and your equipment"

Ron Biberstine
International POD, LLC
Cold Fire Super Systems
web: www.coldfiresupersystems.com

Any comments with from those with actual experience with the Coldfire or other systems is appreciated, but it seems that the Coldfire system has some definite advantages over both halon and AFFF.

[MH20]

Ive been wanting to hear some actual experience with the Coldfire since Chris Wilson mentioned it while back. It seems almost too good to be true in my opinion, but if it works anything like what they claim...it is what I will be using in my prerunner.

[AZ45]

AFFF is environmentally friendly and not a health hazard. I bet If you check the MSDS for both products, you could see this for yourself. AFFF in concentrated form, could irritate your skin like a degreaser by drawing the oil from it, but it would be no more harmful than that. AFFF is mixed with water from 1 to 6% when used as a fire suppressant.

I think Cold Fire uses an organic an organic protein additive which helps it draw heat from a fire. The additive under pressure like other chemicals will break down over time, so you would probably want to refill/recharge the bottle after a couple of years.
The system we have is not pressurized until activated, so it will not break down like a pressurized chemical.

I think the goal is to put the fire out, not draw heat from it, so I’m not really sure what that means. I think Cold Fire has a product that is used in welding that will draw heat away from the material for different reasons, so possibly that same product or idea is used for their fire fighting materials.

I’m sure it’s great stuff, and you should buy based on your research for a product that its your needs.

Great thread, it’s nice to see off roaders are starting to understand that when they crash it’s usually not it front of a safety crew.

[Justin]

The biggest problem with the foam type systems is that the foam needs to cover the actual fire meaning more product = bigger tank. A 5lb foam type will not extinguish the same fire as the 5 lb halon system would. Just something to think about.

[Rprice]

UPS just delivered this to me. it says its the AFF system but i have to charge this thing myself. they sent a Co2 cartridge and the mixture with the instructions. just under $350 delivered

[Zambo]

I notice these systems come in different sizes. How do you know how big a system to get?

[AZ45]

YAMAHARDR-You don't have to charge the system, it charges when you activate it it.
Make sure the nozzles are mounted pinting down so the dirt doesn't build up in them.


The size of the system depends on how many nozzles you want to run and how much space you have.

The bigger the better when your on fire.

[Zambo]

I just ordered your 2.3 lb system. I figure its probably good enough for a stock full truck. Certainly better than what we have now, which is nada!

[AZ45]

Thanks for the biz..I hope you never use it!

[Rprice]

YAMAHARDR-You don't have to charge the system, it charges when you activate it it.
Make sure the nozzles are mounted pinting down so the dirt doesn't build up in them.


The size of the system depends on how many nozzles you want to run and how much space you have.

The bigger the better when your on fire.

I should have read the instructions. i just have to mix the stuff and put it all together. thank you.

[Zambo]

What sort of spray pattern do these nozzles make? I see you suggested pointing the nozzles down to keep 'em clean, will that still direct the foam toward the engine? I guess the instructions will help with that.

[AZ45]

The nozzles come with ports in different parts of the nozzle, it will be obvious when you look at them. Finding a good spot for them nozzle is mostly a balance of getting max coverage with keeping it out of harm’s way. Don’t mount the driver compartment nozzles on the roof, because when you’re up-side-down they have to spray up to a fire.

The directions pretty good, but call one of the guys at UPR if you need more help.

[Zambo]

Thanks!

[pjc]

Chris,

Who sells the Coldfire system?


Halon works by replacing the oxygen and won't work in a open environment in the wind when the wind can blow away the Halon and allow the oxygen to continue to feed the fire. I converted my prerunner's built in flame out system from Halon to ColdFire for this reason.

Supplemental to this I have dry chemical extingushers mounted outside the cockpit on each side where you can quickly grab them after bailing out. Inside the cockpit it's a good idea to have the main battery switch within reach along with another backup extinguisher to grab after hitting the flame out and killing the batteries.

[pjc]

Seen these? http://www.spa-uk.co.uk/design/firesuppressionsystems.asp

I suspect that it is not as easy to refill as the mentioned AFFF system.

[AZ45]

Not all of the SPA systems are not in approved bottles for sale in the US. It's possible they'rre not refillable at all.

[TUBETECK]

Last week my new AFF system arived. I'll post here how it was to install. After reading the directions the toughest choice I have to make is where best to put the nozzles. I'm thinking of doing a sray pattern test to figure this out.

[desertracer]

Bringing up an old thread as I want to upgrade to a larger system in our car from the current 2.5lb halon. Anybody have experience with the system on Kartek's website, FireFox. http://www.kartek.com/prod-windows/all/safety/bsr-fx100kp.jpg

[AZ45]

Here's a 5.0lb user refillable AFFFsystem that works well http://www.upr.com/product.php?productid=393

There's not much info on the picture you posted, so It's hard to comment on it.

[ndvalium]

Here's a 5.0lb user refillable AFFFsystem that works well http://www.upr.com/product.php?productid=393

There's not much info on the picture you posted, so It's hard to comment on it.



What he said - open desert go with foam - Halon in my opinion should be small track incase of flare ups after suppression -

[sqrly1776]

How well do these units work when they are upside down? Do they have a "This Side Up"?

If you turn a spray paint can upside down the paint is not sprayed as the fluid is below the pick-up, do these units do the same?

I'd think most people will assume they will need the system when they are up-side down, but what about when you kart-wheel and damage your fuel cell and land on your wheels, or any other failure causing fire?

I see this as possibly being one difference between gas and liquid units.........

Any knowledgable inputs?????

[AZ45]

The systems are pressurized, so they will work upside down.
I think a spray can is different because it used a pick up tube to get the paint from the bottom of the can as it is typically help in an upright position to activate the valve by pushing on it.

[TUBETECK]

Product Update:

I finally installed my AFF cold fire system on my 5-16 car and for the most part it was an easy install.
Only a few problems:
A) pull cable wasn't long enough to go from the dash to the rear of the car where the bottle is mounted. (mounted tee handle next shifter, problem solved)
B) supplied aluminum tubing wasn't long enough to go from bottle through firewall to two points around the engine and then to the front of the driver compartment. (used 316 s.s. 1/4" tube to run the line inside the car, problem solved)
C) only three nozzles are supplied with the kit, directions call for two in engine bay and one in driver area, what about the dash area of cars with rear engines. (hmmm pretty much the majority of off road race cars, problem not solved- yet, need to buy another nozzle and run more s.s. tube for the dash area.)

All in all a pretty easy install with very detailed and easy to read and understand directions. But for someone that doesn't have the knowledge or the imagination to fill in the gaps it might be a little difficult.
I haven't actually had the misfortune of using the system yet but IF I do I will post the results here.

[Superfab]

I allways figured the nozzles should be between you the source of the fire. In a rear engine car where the fuel cell is behind you ,it would make sense to have the third nozzle between you and the cell, not on in the dash. Remember you need to periodically clean the nozzles and lines to make sure they are not plugged, especially after a damp or wet race. It helps to mount the hand held extinguishers away from the engine bay, preferably where you can grab one on the way out. They don't do a lot of good when they are next to the fire as was the on in Pastrana's car. What ever system you use buy the largest system you can fit. A small one might run short if you are injured and having a hard time exiting the vehicle.

[TUBETECK]

Thanks for the tips superfab
I kinda of started thinking in that direction as far as cleaning the nozzles and putting an additional nozzle above the fuel cell. Ive already have a hand held under my legs and I'm thinking of putting another one under the codrivers. Last year at the MORE toys for tots race we stopped to help the crew of a trophey truck that was fully engulfed. I handed my fire extinguisher to them without even thinking and about two miles later I realized we didn't have one any more, ooopps. So I added an in car system just to make sure we were covered.

[AZ45]

Be careful adding a nozzle, because it's going to take away from the others.
If your fuel cell is on fire, a single nozzle won't put it out, but it may take enough retardant from the nozzles spraying on you to reduce your escape time.
If you're worried about a fuel fire at the cell, run a separate system that will be activated by the heat.

[TUBETECK]

Thanks for the tip AZ45 I'll keep that in mind. As fa as adding another heat activated system? I'm not driving a trophey truck, so space is no longer available not to mention the car is almost as heavy as an armored truck right now. I cant add any more weight to it.

[desertracer]

I e-mailed UPR but haven't heard back, anybody know the dimensions of the 5lb and/or 10lb bottle they sell. Looking for overall length and diameter for mounting. Thanks

[AZ45]

5 lb bottle 4-1⁄8" X 14"
10 lb bottle-5-1/4" x 20-1/2"

Did you email through the site? We try to answer questions pretty quickly.

[desertracer]

Thanks for the dimensions, PM sent.

[1wood]

Anybody run the ESS wet foam system? I spec'd it for my new car but maybe there is something better? The co2 charged systems all seem to work the same way.