howd Robby do??

[CRFmotoRider]

i was there on sturday bt missed sunday :(

[Doug]

Jason Baldwin Memorial Cup Championship: Pro 2 Division (15 Laps)
Winning Time: 15:50.326

1. Jerry Welchel 15:50.326 (+0.938)
2. Ricky Johnson 15:51.264
3. Carl Renezeder 15:55.158
4.Travis Coyne 16:09.149
5. Todd LeDuc (14 laps) 16:00.841
6. Dan VandenHeuvel (9 laps) 10:21.705
7. Rob MacCachren (7 laps) 6:37.717
8.Greg Adler (6 laps) 11:32.051
9. RobbyGordon (4 laps) 3:49.465
10. Steve Sourapas (1 lap) 1:08 297

Pro 2 Division (15 Laps)
Winning Time 15:37.317

1. Jerry Welchel 15:37.311 (+0.566)
2. Rob MacCachren 15:37.883
3. Ricky Johnson 15:43.048
4.Dan VandenHeuvel 16:10.328
5.Greg Adler 16:36.250
6. Lary Noel (14 laps) 15:35.801
7. Steven Sourapas(14 laps) 15:48.881
8.Alan Pfluger (12 laps) 13:27.561
9. Todd LeDuc (10 laps) 11:13.075
10.Robby Gordon (6 laps) 7:28.846
11. Travis Coyne (3 laps) 3:11.009
12. Carl Renezeder (2 laps) 1:58.499
13. Mark Porter (1 lap) 1:11.574
14. Gary Dircks (1 lap) 1:12.137

[Bricoop]

check this thread. Broke A-Arm in one race, and lost a wheel in the other.

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28821

[FlyHiFlyLo]

RG showed that he can haul the mail til he breaks... In fact one term I heard was "Schooling until he broke". Maybe a little RGM built machine some off weekends next year and he could win a few.

[On The Edge Racing]

Not too fast with only 3 wheels!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[All-AmericanGirl]

The attached pix show his lead after 2-3 laps...

[Bricoop]

The attached pix show his lead after 2-3 laps...

nice, thanks!

[FlyHiFlyLo]

The attached pix show his lead after 2-3 laps...


Well we could only guess how bad of a butt whoop'n it would have been after a dozen laps.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Looks like the fruit is pretty close to the ground for RG in this series... I'm sure he will try to come back for a win...

[JrSyko]

Got to hand it to him, he sure drove the wheels off it (no pun intended) until it broke. He could win there very easily, especially since he was able to beat that illegal truck the Jerry races, that things not fair!

[Cali_F350_XLT]

Got to hand it to him, he sure drove the wheels off it (no pun intended) until it broke. He could win there very easily, especially since he was able to beat that illegal truck the Jerry races, that things not fair!


Care to elaborate?

-Markus-

[BANNED4LIFE]

Well we could only guess how bad of a butt whoop'n it would have been after a dozen laps.

obviously, you werent there...............as always

[Mary Kay]

Got to hand it to him, he sure drove the wheels off it (no pun intended) until it broke. He could win there very easily, especially since he was able to beat that illegal truck the Jerry races, that things not fair!

The comment is bold! Could you explain the statement about Jerry's truck?

[FlyHiFlyLo]

obviously, you werent there...............as always


I heard you were going and got too frightened.

[Big Hock]

The comment is bold! Could you explain the statement about Jerry's truck?

I'm pretty sure he was joking about how fast Whelchel is, one of these ;) woulda helped!

[J.COLEMAN]

That was some great racin. Really enjoyed it!

[JrSyko]

The comment is bold! Could you explain the statement about Jerry's truck?

Yeah, it was built before the standard chasis was put into effect and was grandfathered in. I've been told from an ex Corr crew chief of the year that it has a number of advantages from the new trucks. No doubt Jerry is fast and would be running in the top no matter what he drives but just look at how well that truck works compared to the others. I wouldn't be surprised if it was made illegal soon.

[LazyBoyRacer]

WOW Travis you just opened up a whole can of S***. Way to go I can't wait to see some of the replies.But from my point of view I would have to agree that Jerry's truck did work better in a couple of spots and that he would be up front in anything that he is racing.

[BANNED4LIFE]

I heard you were going and got too frightened.

can anyone explain what this means.....anyone??????????...........i was there

[Big Hock]

Yeah, it was built before the standard chasis was put into effect and was grandfathered in. I've been told from an ex Corr crew chief of the year that it has a number of advantages from the new trucks. No doubt Jerry is fast and would be running in the top no matter what he drives but just look at how well that truck works compared to the others. I wouldn't be surprised if it was made illegal soon.

Damn bro I vouched for you just joking and you threw me under the bus!:eek: By that logic Renezeder's P4 winning truck is illegal as well, since it is way older than the standardized chassis also! Rob Mac won in P2 on Sat. didn't he?

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

If Jerry's truck worked that much better, why would Scott Taylor have built a new truck?

[hoeker]

robby ran some great laps, shows what happens when you put a great driver in great equipment. that said, he caused his own failure in the first race, he made a mistake and pushed out into the wall. the truck immediately lacked performance and 3 laps later the wheel fell off, most likely from damage caused hitting the wall. in the second race robby looked to be heading for a win and we certainly can't blame the driver for the shock breaking.

as far as whelchel's truck is concerned it is legal and works very well. corr has a weight penalty for non spec chassis trucks, that is why taylor sold the truck, he didn't think the advantages of the chassis outperformed the weight penalty.
personally i felt the pro-2 races this weekend were weak outside of the battle for the lead. there are 3-4 good midwest trucks that are missing, renezeder broke both races, and many of the new west coast drivers have to get their trucks dialed in yet. whelchel can drive and his truck works but look for competition to improve as the field gets there trucks dialed in better.

[Bricoop]

Check out Robbygordon.com for a short CORR report, as well as Robby running over to help the rolled truck.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

can anyone explain what this means.....anyone??????????...........i was there

Wooooops... I meant I got frightened.

[henry]

Damn bro I vouched for you just joking and you threw me under the bus!:eek: By that logic Renezeder's P4 winning truck is illegal as well, since it is way older than the standardized chassis also! Rob Mac won in P2 on Sat. didn't he?

To the best of my knowledge Pro-4's don't use a standardized chassis.

[Big Hock]

YouTube - robby gordon's first CORR race (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1fqZHVvsSyo)


Just found this on the 'tube, It looked like Robby had about a half-lap lead, impressive!

Edit, i think this was from qualifying, he was still movin though!

[jmason912]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1fqZHVvsSyo


Just found this on the 'tube, It looked like Robby had about a half-lap lead, impressive!

Edit, i think this was from qualifying, he was still movin though!

That looks more like practice than a race. There are only 4-5 trucks on the track.

[Steve_Naughton]

there are 3-4 good midwest trucks that are missing...

Why were those 3-4 good midwest trucks missing?

They missed out on one of the best weekends of short course racing that I've seen yet.

[racechick]

Scotty Taylor, Evan Evans, Mike Oberg are the first 3 that come to my mind....

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

Why were those 3-4 good midwest trucks missing?

Because of Jim Baldwin, Doug Davis, and their inability to work together and put a schedule in place that would allow racers to compete for a points championship in both series. Everybody was forced to choose one vs. the other. If sponsers are paying these "midwest guys" to compete for a championship in WSORR, it's awefully difficult to accumulate the expense and take on the risk of tearing up your equipment for an exhibition race. I hope 2008 will be different....

[BANNED4LIFE]

Because of Jim Baldwin, Doug Davis, and their inability to work together and put a schedule in place that would allow racers to compete for a points championship in both series. Everybody was forced to choose one vs. the other. If sponsers are paying these "midwest guys" to compete for a championship in WSORR, it's awefully difficult to accumulate the expense and take on the risk of tearing up your equipment for an exhibition race. I hope 2008 will be different....

exibition race(?), hahahahahahahhaa, NBC, they should have been there

[Mary Kay]

exibition race(?), hahahahahahahhaa, NBC, they should have been there

I am assuming that it would only be an exibition/test race for a person who was not racing the full CORR series. Therefore, I understand why some would not or could not risk the chance of wrecking their truck for a one weekend deal and maybe put a big hurt on their chance for racing for points in another series.

For me its kind of like the bread or guns theory in economics!

my 41cents

Mary Kay

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

exibition race(?), hahahahahahahhaa, NBC, they should have been there

I didn't intend to lessen the caliber of the Cup race. It's NBC! If these midwest guys had the cash and their sponsor was willing to pay for the NBC coverage, it would have been a good opportunity receive some of the best exposure the sport has seen.

The outcome of these Cup races are not counted or recorded in any season standings. For whatever reason, CORR secured NBC coverage for a non-points race. If you're paid to race WSORR, why would you pay your own way out to California to place your sponsor and the WSORR season in jeopardy?

The question was why 3-4 good midwest trucks were missing. My point was that if it didn't end up being CORR vs WSORR, these trucks may not be missing.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

So did these series split? Is the owner of Crandon the 2007 version of Tony George?

[Mary Kay]

So did these series split? Is the owner of Crandon the 2007 version of Tony George?

The series didn't really split. Jim moved it out west and gave us one race a year. somepeople wanted more than one race a year so the new series was started.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Doug Davis ain't no Tony George and Crandon ain't no Indy...?

[Mary Kay]

So did these series split? Is the owner of Crandon the 2007 version of Tony George?

The new series is call WSORR. Crandon is a very small town that has a spring and fall race. Both are great times, but the fall race is the one that is well known. Crandon has been one of the biggest staples that has kept racing going for the last 35 plus years in the Midwest. Crandon has been a racing community long before CORR.

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

So did these series split? Is the owner of Crandon the 2007 version of Tony George?

Or was Jim's ego too large to compromise and work together on a schedule? I'm not sure how the discussions went. We don't have all the facts so lets not start the finger pointing. Neither of us should be diverting this back to Jim vs Doug, nor who is the new Tony George for that matter. Hopefully both leaders see the value in working together on the 2008 schedule.

Back to the thread topic.

[jmason912]

Doug Davis ain't no Tony George and Crandon ain't no Indy...?


For the sake of all us midwest racers, I hope not.

[Mary Kay]

I agree racing should NOT be about Jim vs. Doug its about the racers and fans.
The fans all over want to watch racing so hopfully that next years schedule wont be conflicting with one another.

[Mary Kay]

Doug Davis ain't no Tony George and Crandon ain't no Indy...?

Fly your right Crandon is no Indy.... but it has been part of the off-road racing community for over 35 years. I feel that is nothing that should be swiped aside like it has no place or value in racing!

[Steve_Naughton]

--

The reality is: this past weekends racing (on April 21-22) at Antelope Valley was an excellent show – A great turn out and some of the best racing I've seen in the past year and a half. And even qualifying was exciting to watch since it determined where each driver would start. Then on top of that it's going to be on NBC this Saturday April 28th. Then you got the new LA Fairplex race coming up, then the new Chula Vista track (which I understand is supposed to be spectacular) Then Texas Motor Speedway, then the Las Vegas race during SEMA week, and more NBC coverage, and Speed TV coverage starting to air in September. Plus during the off season CORR took the tech semi and some race trucks to over 20 huge events in all the areas where CORR is going and showed people what CORR is all about. So a lot of people already know CORR is coming. If this is what Jim's ego is about, then I say Kudos to Jim's ego.

I'm excited to go back to Crandon, but it's really exciting to see what CORR's doing to take the sport to the national level. If they keep doing what they're doing, then in a few years people will be saying: "I remember when that was a small Midwest thing."
--

[FlyHiFlyLo]

There is no reason CORR couldn't run in Florida, North Carolina, Washington, Kansas and New York too.

[inmymind]

We need to start a new post! And did any body notice the Monster!!
They sprinkled alot of MONEY on a bunch of trucks!!!
To bad it didnt hit our truck.
And Steve you are vary correct in what is happening right now with CORR.

[Steve_Naughton]

There is no reason CORR couldn't run in Florida, North Carolina, Washington, Kansas and New York too.

That's right.

And CORR could even go back to Crandon and Bark River, which, from my recollection, was actually in the original 2007 schedule.

--

[Mary Kay]

Whether the racing in the Midwest becomes a dinosaur or not remains to be seen.

Why not take it to the Carolina's? Doesn't Robby live there at least part time? He would be great and promoting it, then being there to race it!

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Whether the racing in the Midwest becomes a dinosaur or not remains to be seen.

Why not take it to the Carolina's? Doesn't Robby live there at least part time? He would be great and promoting it, then being there to race it!

I'm sure he could get The Biff, Mears and Johnson to play too...

[Steve_Naughton]

Whether the racing in the Midwest becomes a dinosaur or not remains to be seen.

I don't think racing in the Midwest will become a dinosaur. I think it will only get bigger and better there. I think the Midwest has a really great thing in Crandon and Bark River. I wish Flagstaff supported off-road racing like they do back there. I'm really looking foward to going back to Crandon this year. And it would really be great to see those two tracks become part of the CORR series again.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

OK so here goes Fly again... If they did away with Pro 4 and kept the standardized Pro 2 the field would get even bigger... Then bump it up to 100 laps pit stop at 25 laps then with a 90 minute halftime intermission with a 10 lap Trophy Kart, and a 25 lap Pro Lights. Then,the final 50 laps with a 75 lap pitstop and to the finish. Then it could really be a live televised 3.5 hour show.

[Mary Kay]

I don't think racing in the Midwest will become a dinosaur. I think it will only get bigger and better there. I think the Midwest has a really great thing in Crandon and Bark River. I wish Flagstaff supported off-road racing like they do back there. I'm really looking foward to going back to Crandon this year. And it would really be great to see those two tracks become part of the CORR series again.

I don't know what happened between the two sides, but God willing things will work out so all the racers will make it to the same track during the same weekend. I don't care for who or for what series! lets just race!


I wasn't being a smart @ss when I said it should go the Carolina's, I think it would be a great place to go then throw in Robby and Jimmy in the area. it would work.

[Steve_Naughton]

I don't know what happened between the two sides, but God willing things will work out so all the racers will make it to the same track during the same weekend. I don't care for who or for what series! lets just race!

I think a few people got pissed off that CORR only wanted to have 1 BR and 1 Crandon race in 2007, so they decided to try an start their own series. Had the new series not been formed, then I think Crandon and Barkriver would've been part of the CORR series this year, plus Las Vegas, Texas, Chula Vista, Los Angeles, NBC, Speed, etc...

I remember watching an interview with with Jim Baldwin on Speed TV back in 2005 (after he had just purchased CORR) and he talked about wanting to take the sport to a national level. And with all the stuff they're doing, it seems that that is still their goal (even with all the crap that he and his family have had to go through this past year and a half) I think some sponsors and teams may want to re-think their doubts about CORR and what they're trying to do. I think the formation of the WSORR may of just been an emotional reaction to Jim's vision for the future of this sport.

[HUBBARD]

That's right.

And CORR could even go back to Crandon and Bark River, which, from my recollection, was actually in the original 2007 schedule.

-- that's right Steve it was. Corr wanted to race crandon. It was crandon or the people that be caused that to happen as well corr schedule was out first so i would assume wossr made the decision to race on the same weekend. as for the racing p2 race that was great always a battle for the lead. JB had some good things to say at the race they want live NBC tv for next year was a big one. also the want to add another state to the schedule next year.

[Mary Kay]

My father has worked for and knows Jim B rather well. He likes him a lot and has nice things to say about him and the family. A big vision isn't a bad thing.

my goal in life is to be a part of any racing vision:)

[hoeker]

I think the formation of the WSORR may of just been an emotional reaction to Jim's vision for the future of this sport.

this thread has gone all wrong and i don't want to participate but i can't let this comment go steve.

this was not an emotional decission, it was not poorly thought out. it was calculated and planned and the midwest tracks, drivers, sponsors, and teams had no choice. look how few teams from the midwest came to the opener. it's not that they didn't want to be there, it's that thier sponsors and families couldn't afford to pay for it. nbc or not, right now the corr series doesn't have enough sponsorship value to justify adding another 100 grand to the budget. i'm glad the opening weekend was (apparently) a success. things will be better when the world series opening weekend is a success. things will be better yet when the moaning stops and both series can become strong enough that every capable driver can get a sponsor like monster or redbull and afford to race nationwide. for now the value is not there, in either series. we did not make an emotional decision and stomp out of the negotiating room, jim baldwin wanted one race in the midwest in 2007 and that just wasn't good enough, we did what we HAD to do!!

[Steve_Naughton]

Ross, I agree with you that the value is not there yet (for short course racing in general) It's definitely a bummer that guys who win races like you and my brother can't get decent sponsorship support, but I think that will change in the future as the sport grows, especially with all the new and exciting things that CORR is doing to bring national awareness to the sport. Eventually if companies want to be associated with talent, they'll have to pay for it.

Also, there's nothing wrong with having various regional series, like how there is in motocross, stock car racing, etc.. but as far as the formation of the WSORR, I think that was a definite emotional reaction to CORR's plan for the future. If you said that the WSORR was formed as a place for all the midwest guys (sportsman, formula 4x4, g.o.b's, etc..) to have a place to race on a regular basis then that would be one thing. But the reality is it was started as a reaction to CORR.

I think all the Midwest guys will have a great regional thing in WSORR, but CORR will be the place to go when they're ready for the big leagues.

Regarding "howd Robby do" (the original subject of this thread) Gordon did ok, but Whelchel, MacCachren, Greaves, Johnson, Renezeder and LeDuc did better.

--

[Mary Kay]

I picked Jerry and Carl so I'm happy:)

[Steve_Naughton]

I picked Jerry and Carl so I'm happy:)

Nice picks! I remember your picks on the "how many trucks do we have" thread. You also picked Rob Mac.

I picked Kyle, Rob or Rodrigo to win Pro-Lite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRhxMEEjXUM

--

[Mary Kay]

Nice picks! I remember your picks on the "how many trucks do we have" thread. You also picked Rob Mac.

I picked Kyle, Rob or Rodrigo to win Pro-Lite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRhxMEEjXUM

--

Thanks for the video I have seen it before but it was nice to watch again. In another post picked Rob, Rodrigo or Kyle to win the Pro-Lite Champ for CORR. Rob has started out on a rail, great job! I am sure Iwill be right on this pick too:)

[PatrickW]

for now the value is not there, in either series.


There will be a minimum of 1.5 million people watching NBC nationwide on Saturday morning. The number will likely be over 2. There were between 8,000 and 10,000 paid attendees in the stands on each day this past weekend. Pomona, in the middle of three large metropolitan counties, is more than likely going to draw greater numbers than we saw in Lancaster. This all equates to larger impresion numbers, greater ROI and better value for sponsors. The future of the sport is now. We are starting to see greater interest in the Pro divisions from many levels of sponsorship due to the greater saturization of the sport.

Is it early in the game? Sure it is. But all it's going to take is one Coke, Pepsi, Budwiser or Wallmart to see the value in CORR and it's going to take off to the stratosphere. The interest is starting to develop and those days are not too far off.

By the way...to squeeze in the topic: It was wonderfull working with Robby, his family and his crew. We welcome them to join us again any time.

[hoeker]

There will be a minimum of 1.5 million people watching NBC nationwide on Saturday morning. The number will likely be over 2. There were between 8,000 and 10,000 paid attendees in the stands on each day this past weekend. Pomona, in the middle of three large metropolitan counties, is more than likely going to draw greater numbers than we saw in Lancaster. This all equates to larger impresion numbers, greater ROI and better value for sponsors. The future of the sport is now. We are starting to see greater interest in the Pro divisions from many levels of sponsorship due to the greater saturization of the sport.

Is it early in the game? Sure it is. But all it's going to take is one Coke, Pepsi, Budwiser or Wallmart to see the value in CORR and it's going to take off to the stratosphere. The interest is starting to develop and those days are not too far off.

By the way...to squeeze in the topic: It was wonderfull working with Robby, his family and his crew. We welcome them to join us again any time.

you're right, the value may be there soon, but right now it is NOT there. that is fact. after we see JJ reports with values in the millions for top 5 teams we may be able to draw sponsorship values exceeding 100grand but until the ink hits the JJ reports only the most agressive sponsors are willing to risk it.

[Steve_Naughton]

Ross, Do you think that what CORR is doing is the right thing? Or will you only believe it once you see Joyce Julius reports in the millions? Personally, I think if you just look at the simple facts of what all they've done, you can see that things are moving in the right direction.

PatrickW, who are these 1.5 million people that will be watching NBC on Saturday morning? I mean, I know that everyone here on RDC will most likely tune in, plus teams/families and people who attended the race and off-road fans in general. But who are the rest? Is it just couch potatos who happen to have their TV's on NBC at the right time? I know that the original Daytona 500 airing in 1979 was huge, but there was also a ton of anticipation for that television event. It was well talked about and covered by the national press before it aired. Plus there was no internet, video games or two hundred channels for people to choose from. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely excited to see the coverage this week, but how do the other 1.5 million people know it's on? Is it that NBC just always has millions of people watching regardless of what's on? I know that Nascar, NFL, AMA Supercross, and others run a ton of promo spots weeks and even months prior to the new season/series starting in order to get people to tune in, but I haven't really seen anything for CORR (I did see it in TV guide though! Also, corracing.com has a nice promo on their homepage)

[PatrickW]

From the statistics I've seen, there are at least a million people watching any one of the three major networks at any given time. Then factor the people that have seen advertisements, are into the sport, want to see any form of racing and the curious and it's not hard to figure that out of a population of 280million or so people, a couple of million will tune in.

I read your earlier discussions about the internet and the future death of traditional TV. I think that the fact that 20-30% of America still relies on rabbit ears and the antenna on their roof and 30% or more of the population recieves no form of high speed internet access is going to delay the death of traditional TV for a generation or two.

[Steve_Naughton]

Have there been any advertisments about the show airing this weekend? I did see spots for the Antelope live event when I was out there, but haven't really seen anything for the NBC show. But then again, I'm one of the 70% with cable and internet who doesn't really watch much regular tv except for when somethings on that I want to watch.

[PatrickW]

There are promo spots running on NBC.

[Steve_Naughton]

There are promo spots running on NBC.

when are they running? Or during what shows are they running?

I just watch a video on YouTube that has been viewed over 27 million times. That may of been a good place to run an ad for the CORR show on NBC this weekend.

[hoeker]

Ross, Do you think that what CORR is doing is the right thing? Or will you only believe it once you see Joyce Julius reports in the millions? Personally, I think if you just look at the simple facts of what all they've done, you can see that things are moving in the right direction.


steve, i think CORR is doing a lot of great things with short course racing on the west coast. only time will tell if jim did the "right" thing.

[Mary Kay]

There are promo spots running on NBC.

My family watches NBC all the time and no one in my household has seen a promo for the race! In fact I don't even know when the air time is because of not seeing a promo.
Mary Kay

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Sat. 11am PST.

[Mary Kay]

Fly thanks for the time, I now know what time I can go shopping and what time to plant myself in front of the TV.
Thanks

[racechick]

My DVR is set ... it is on at 1 PM Central time.

[MNotary]

Steve, you must not have been at the Fall Crandon drivers meeting last year. Those two men were not going to work together.

Ross, you give Doug a little more credit than he deserves (he's a promoter, remember).

The RACERS will keep it going in the midwest, biggest and fastest fields (except 2 and 4, but that is because the rules are wrong).

The thing is Crandon WAS the "best" track (loved or hated by racers). CORR is building the best tracks now.

oh yea, Robby either breaks or wins.......

and Fly... that was called NASCAR truck racing.... 30 minutes would be plenty, maybe twice a day.

[Mary Kay]

This Crandon/Midwest vs. West thing really needs to stop! I feel like its more about some little boys in a pissing contest, then racing:eek:

Jim has a vision and money, he is taking CORR to a big level. Awesome!
Am I happy about this yes and no:confused: I am from Crandon and I love racing, it is in my blood and I am selfish and want it to stay in here. One reason is because I don't have the resourses to travel. But I understand that in the grand schema of life things change, like it or not.

While I am soooo thankful for all of the racers in all classes, I also love my west coast boys and want to be able to watch them at the track not on tv.

Why cann't we have both! Let the teams who have money do both, while the teams who don't have the money choose were they will go. Oh Crap! I forgot that can not happen beacuse of the peeing contest that is taking place about this year.

I don't know and I am not going to pretend that Jim is 100% correct or that Doug is 100% correct, but from the outside looking in both series CAN be great series for racing, but both need a little fine tuning, which I am sure will happen, ONLY IF the I have bigger muscles then you do attitude stops.
Until then many, many people are loosing out, darn it:mad:

Now that I got that off of my chest I feel much better!
I need to drink more coffee in the morning before I read some forums.

[Steve_Naughton]

Mary Kay,

The CORR/Midwest thing is not as big of a deal as it may seem. Right Ross?

[hoeker]

Mary Kay,

The CORR/Midwest thing is not as big of a deal as it may seem. Right Ross?

agreed; i still plan to find funding to race the last 2 (or 3) CORR race weekends. another month or so and we may have ammunition to justify traveling west to race!

[MNotary]

Jim does not need the midwest to do his "thing". It won't help, but won't kill what he is doing. But if you think these two are going to get together....

Steve, were you at the drivers meeting? Davis goaded Jim and Jim wasn't going to just sit there........ It will take a really big sponsor to put this back together.

And you are right, it isn't a big deal... if you want to race... go race.

Desert has Score, more, bitd, snore.... just in the southwest. Shortcourse has 2 good choices.


Mary Kay,

The CORR/Midwest thing is not as big of a deal as it may seem. Right Ross?

[Steve_Naughton]

The only thing I have to say is that my brother and I are very excited about CORR.

Walking up to the grandstands at Chula Vista in September 2005 made a huge impression on us.

By the way, I will have some CORR rounds 1 & 2 recap and rounds 3 & 4 preview video up soon.

[Mary Kay]

Mary Kay,

The CORR/Midwest thing is not as big of a deal as it may seem. Right Ross?

Hot Dog:) I am glad that is over with!

[handmethemic]

Here goes...

Mr. Naughton: WSORR as an emotional reaction? I have to kindly disagree. Sportsman drivers make up 2/3 of last year's CORR community, with well over half of all sportsmen coming from the Midwest. Do the math--over half of the drivers in the sport come from the Midwest. Granted, the pros do put on the best show for the casual fan (I happen to enjoy every single race I see). Over half of the off-road community left out to dry, not to mention a move by Mr. Baldwin that seemed like one step closer to taking off-road completely out of the Midwest? Forget about it. When the plan for the 2007 schedule was announced and all the sportsmen drivers had the rug pulled from under them, it was a no-brainer that there would be a new series. Heck, if nothing else, all the sportsmen drivers would've showed up at the racetracks ready to race, series or no series, TV or not, etc. Mr. Davis and company stepped up to the plate in a BIG way by forming the World Series and as far as I'm concerned they've done a darn good job getting things moving this quickly and keeping a place for the sportsmen to race. Not long ago on Mr. Hoek's site we had a discussion about importance of the sportsmen. Remember when (for example) Mike Oberg drove a 1600 Lite Buggy? How about when Mr. Hoek was in SRT Stock? Certainly, right now there is a "gold rush" of sorts--all the desert racing guys (who are fantastic racers, don't get me wrong) who can afford it are doing the hip, new short course thing out west. But they're in limited supply just like Pros back here in the Midwest. Then what? That's where you look for who is going to be the next Mike Oberg or Mr. Hoek. Now, giving the Sportsmen drivers a solid series seems a little more justified.

And yes, the World Series is my employer. All of you may grill me as you wish, but I feel that what I've said here makes at least some sense. Mr. Naughton, I'm sorry if this seemed a little harsh but I had to say it.

Cheyne Statezny

P.S. Mary Kay- sorry for starting this back up again.

Oh, and I'll also mention that I do agree that NBC is fantastic for the sport, no matter who is paying for it. CORR is doing their part to spread the gospel of off-road, just like the WSORR plans on doing. As long as we all get along this season is going to be HUGE for the sport.

[PatrickW]

Cheyne,

You are absolutely right. Friday and Saturday nights all over the country there are late model, sprint car and even go cart drivers with their families making huge sacrifices with the hopes that someday their acomplishments might land them a ride in a NEXTEL Cup, IRL or Champ Car. Somehow the cream seems to find its way to the top. Shortcourse off road racing is no different.

When Mr. Baldwin's vision comes to fruition, eventually you could be seeing the larger Pro teams operating as organizations such as DEI, Hendrick, Petty or Roush in that they will be able to bring up drivers who have shown success at a sportsman level. With TV viewership, attendance and exposure numbers climbing, there will soon be other methods of funding a Pro team besides the deep pockets of the owners/drivers.

Patrick.

[Steve_Naughton]

Cheyne, Do you think what Patrick has just stated is right?

I think that what he has stated is pretty much the same thing I said a few post back, ...he's just done it a little more eloquently.




Ross, I agree with you that the value is not there yet (for short course racing in general) It's definitely a bummer that guys who win races like you and my brother can't get decent sponsorship support, but I think that will change in the future as the sport grows, especially with all the new and exciting things that CORR is doing to bring national awareness to the sport. Eventually if companies want to be associated with talent, they'll have to pay for it.

Also, there's nothing wrong with having various regional series, like how there is in motocross, stock car racing, etc.. but as far as the formation of the WSORR, I think that was a definite emotional reaction to CORR's plan for the future. If you said that the WSORR was formed as a place for all the midwest guys (sportsman, formula 4x4, g.o.b's, etc..) to have a place to race on a regular basis then that would be one thing. But the reality is it was started as a reaction to CORR.

I think all the Midwest guys will have a great regional thing in WSORR, but CORR will be the place to go when they're ready for the big leagues.-

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

....excerpts taken from Marty Fiolka's editorial "A Short-course Sandwich" in the May 2007 Dirtsports


Guys like Greaves, unlike their hobbyist brethren, are professional racers. This is the all-important difference that makes the split between CORR and WSORR a truly life altering development. While there is certainly room for the two series in this vast country, the fact is that it makes the likes of Johnny Greaves, Scott Taylor, Dan VandenHeuvel, Scott Douglas, and even Carl Renezeder the meat in the sandwich of an unstable tug-of-war.


Outside of the juggernaut that is NASCAR in this country, no series has enough horsepower to ask drivers, sponsors, fans and media to chose one series over another. Both sides can survive, but both then operate from an undesirable position of weakness.


For the sake of a genuine off-road superstar like Johnny Greaves, we can hope that Mr. Baldwin and Mr. Davis can put their personal agendas aside, move one date each, and at least offer each of their professional teams the courtesy of having an option to race both. The fans-both in the stands and on television-certaintly deserve that compromise as well.

Right-on Marty.

[Steve_Naughton]

---

"Compromise" ..."Put your personal agenda aside" ...That's what they used to tell people to do in the former USSR and Eastern Europe.

Mr. Baldwin said in a in 2005 Speed TV interview that he wants to take CORR to the national level. Well, that sounds like a pretty good agenda to me, and even more so for guys like Greaves, Renezeder, Douglas and the next generation who dream of being national off-road racing stars someday. Mr. Baldwin doesn't need to compromise a thing.

[MNotary]

The ethic of the midwest is not to be underestimated. Like was said earlier, these guys will race... it will take more than Doug Davis and Jim Baldwin to make that not happen. Biggest fields, fastest in the country.... CORR has a slap Stieny sign on the home page, why take it out on the racers...

No thanks to Doug and the rest of the Crandon crew and some help from Bark River, this "mess" is being dealt with by the racers.

Promotors, can't trust any of them......

I always thought that after seeing turn one in Crandon, this SHOULD be everywhere. But a OUTLAWS show is the same thing, and it will never be "mainstream".

STEVE, let me ask you one more time, were you at the Crandon drivers meeting?

Until Leduc starts a drivers organization (no class divisions) with the sponsors support, this lack of cooperation won't go away.

Robby was fast but he broke.......

[handmethemic]

Mr. Notary, are you calling Crandon an "outlaws" show?

[MNotary]

As in World of Outlaws.... WOO

[handmethemic]

I'd hardly say that World of Outlaws is to NASCAR what Crandon is to Off-road racing. Crandon is what other tracks aim to be.

[MNotary]

Not what I meant.

A Outlaw show IS a show. 1200 lb. car, 800hp +/- No lifting all the way around. 20 on the track... Nothing but action.. start to finish.

Would you rather watch a Outlaw race or a NASCAR race? But you don't see the Outlaws getting the same sponsor deals as NASCAR.

My point is, no matter how good the races are, some forms of racing just won't get what they deserve.

One other thing, Crandon USED to be the BEST track... 3 maybe 4 good passing spots. Chula Vista pretty much blew it away. You could pass anywhere on the CV track.

[Mary Kay]

MNotary,

just a little comment about several of your post. My first observation is that you love racing. My second observation is that you are willing to share your thoughts about things, which is what this forum is for.

while I may be wrong with this next observation here it is,
it seems to me that you may have a problem with "Crandon", as you keep referring the "Crandon Crew" in not such a nice tone

you are very entitled to have your opinion and you are entitlted to voice them, God i love this forum!

however, i do not understand why, when you refer to "Crandon Crew" it sounds as if you know everyone of the "Crandon Crew" and once again sound as if we are a piece of gum on the bottom of your shoe:eek:

i am sure we have never met and i happen to be part of the "Crandon Crew":)
I also happen to a very nice;) smart:D , educated (even though my spelling is really bad:o )and an open minded person. (at least in my opinion)

by the sounds of your post i am assuming you wont be back to "Crandon"
however, if you do come to "Crandon" I wold love to have the pleasure of buying you a drink so we have a nice little face to face chat:)

these are just my assumptions and observations
Mary Kay

[pride_in_motion]

Not what I meant.

A Outlaw show IS a show. 1200 lb. car, 800hp +/- No lifting all the way around. 20 on the track... Nothing but action.. start to finish.

Would you rather watch a Outlaw race or a NASCAR race? But you don't see the Outlaws getting the same sponsor deals as NASCAR.

My point is, no matter how good the races are, some forms of racing just won't get what they deserve.

One other thing, Crandon USED to be the BEST track... 3 maybe 4 good passing spots. Chula Vista pretty much blew it away. You could pass anywhere on the CV track.

Yes it is a show, a show with vehicles that no one can relate to. If you will notice the series that get the most attention are those that somewhat resemble what you and me drive to work everyday.

[Mary Kay]

Yes it is a show, a show with vehicles that no one can relate to. If you will notice the series that get the most attention are those that somewhat resemble what you and me drive to work everyday.

Hey I happen to drive a mini van to work:confused:

I wonder if I should paint flames on it just in case someone wants to race....lol

[MNotary]

As long as the car is running, I will be there. Always have. I just think with the resources alot more could be done. Also everyone outside the "inner circle" are great. The people at the gate, registration, the concession, track workers, and the starter... Everyone that does the not so fun work, always has a smile.

I don't "know" anyone there. I have talked with Davis briefly at other tracks and by email back in the 90's. And don't need to. They are promotors. Why would they listen to me? Move the pit back to the start line, to allow blending at turn 1. Knock down all the mounds so you can see the track. Raise the spectator area, put in a drainage pipe from the first jump out past the gravel pit. Fill in the pond......... Grandstands on the back straight..... Reconfigure the finish line corner, the "s" after that, and the left hander after that...

It's not just Crandon, BR also...

Your telling be that Sports Car Racing should be huge? You relate to F1? COT is really relatable.. if you like rice... Rally racing?

It is what it is, if you want to race, do it.

You know, the more I think about it, I don't think even Rob Mac or Johnson could pass Robby. That will be a killer race when those three are lined up 1,2,3 on the second lap and all the equipment is dialed.

[Mary Kay]

As long as the car is running, I will be there. Always have. I just think with the resources alot more could be done. Also everyone outside the "inner circle" are great. The people at the gate, registration, the concession, track workers, and the starter... Everyone that does the not so fun work, always has a smile.

I don't "know" anyone there. I have talked with Davis briefly at other tracks and by email back in the 90's. And don't need to. They are promotors. Why would they listen to me? Move the pit back to the start line, to allow blending at turn 1. Knock down all the mounds so you can see the track. Raise the spectator area, put in a drainage pipe from the first jump out past the gravel pit. Fill in the pond......... Grandstands on the back straight..... Reconfigure the finish line corner, the "s" after that, and the left hander after that...

It's not just Crandon, BR also...

Your telling be that Sports Car Racing should be huge? You relate to F1? COT is really relatable.. if you like rice... Rally racing?

It is what it is, if you want to race, do it.

You know, the more I think about it, I don't think even Rob Mac or Johnson could pass Robby. That will be a killer race when those three are lined up 1,2,3 on the second lap and all the equipment is dialed.



Well MNoarty if your going to come to Crandon, which is kool, I work the back gates camp ground and pit gates!

I am not kidding about the drink.

By your post it sounds like you have some great ideas that makes a lot of sense.

Your last part of the post, I must say that it would be awesome to see these three race, however, I would love to throw in Carl, Jerry, and Johnny! Man what a race! I think it would go down to who holds together.