For Fun.....What would you do to help fix RGM Nascar Team

[RGFan]

I know, stupid title......Well being our favorite driver and his team are faltering in a big way with no end in site, and I am sick of talking about their failures, I figured this would be a good post to have some fun with for us bench racers, monday morning quarterbacks and wannabe's.

Well I have always said if you are going to ***** about something, atleast have a solution or an attempt at one. I try to live my life that way, whether it be politics, work issues or in this case, Robby Gordon. Much like Marines, a bitching Robby Gordon Fan is a happy RG fan...maybe not, but it is better then not being a RG fan at all. So here is your chance, outline what you would do to fix RGM if anything. And remember, this is supposed to be fun.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

A second R&D only team.

Top to bottom... Second driver, CC, Pitcrew, COT cars a tire and shock guy.

Attempt all races east of Texas.

[Chase 2]

Shoot it and put us out of our misery.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Shoot it and put us out of our misery.

Yepp, if RG was lamo quiter that would be an option.

[RGFan]

Personally, If there was not a legitimate deal already in the works, not talk or a maybe but an actual deal to add 2 more cars, guaranteed, I would do the following....

1. Partner with another Ford Team, prefferably RYR if that was even an option. Sign an agreement to share all technology concerning the COT and the car of now. Work as an actual team, sign a contract for several years to make it legit. This allows RYR to remain RYR, and RGM to remain RGM, something that all involved would want I would think while getting the benefits of being a team.

2. Assemble a testing team for the COT.....Travel to non sanctioned Cup tracks. Run road courses, short tracks, mile and a half, 2 mile tracks, do them all. THis team would be ran by a shared Director of Motorsports for both teams, preferably an engineer. Running the non sanctioned tracks allows the testing team to run the car constantly with data aquisition equipment. This COT needs hours, lots and lots of hours. Provide the engineering support necessary to make this work.........Ford Motorsports could help out here with their own engineers.

3. Build an engineering facility that both teams own, 50/50. Latest simulations, 7 post shaker, and what ever else they need to get the info they need. Maybe a wind tunnel down the road.... This is expensive, but splitting the costs down the middle would reduce costs significantly for both teams if they were to share a facility. This would be the same thing that RYR did with Roush for engines and the same thing that DEI is doing with RCR for engines, this would be for engineering.

4. Re-assemble the marketing team.....I think this may be hampering RGM with their sponsor hunt.

All these things take money money and more money. But splitting the costs in half help all involved. Sharing setup info with 3 or 4 cars instead of 1 would speed up the time table necessary to figure out the new car. My understanding is that these smaller teams are trying to figure out what effects the adjustments have on their cars, that they are not close to the same as with the old car. I think the above listed issues would help expedite matters. As far as RGM, having a shared engineering facility could also be used for his other ventures in racing (SCORE, Dakar and CORR and maybe Indy Cars in the future).

[EMS702]

Im a big ford fan, but maybe switch to chevy and team with JR. Motorsports, use hendrick engines or even team with Ginn racing. I think JR. and RG could then be competetive. JR has been talking about maybe trying some off road racing in future. It could work. That or JR. switch to Ford.

[NIKAL]

Lets face it the bottom line is it takes money to race and it takes big money to be a contender. Look at what Ginn has done in 1 years time. To me that is a perfect model of what 3rd tear Cup team needs to do to become a 2nd or even 1st tear team. I have stated this before but if I was in RG's shoes I would look for a partner or backer. I would go to John Menard and offer him a partnership into the team. The team would be called MGM "Menard-Gordon Motorsports". With Menard comes stability and when a team can show that they are stable then the good people in the industry will consider looking to your team for work. You will never get a top 10 team's CC or engineer if they dont know what the future for that team might be. Samething for a sponsor. You need to show them all the bells and whistles to convince them your the team they should be with.

Now on the performance side I would run a two car Cup team and a single car Busch team. Then I would start to work on putting some depth into my personal. It would not happen over night. You still need to perform on the track to show that your team is where good people want to be. Look at MWR he threw big money around and bought people, but he has nothing to show for it. You need to have some depth so when another team grabs one of your shock guys or top fab guys you are not scrambling to fill the hole left behind. Also this has become an engineered sport. I know the COT is suppose to help that but I dont think you will see any engineers looking for work any time soon! I would try to build an engineering department. At least two guys per team. So you would have 6 guys between Cup and Busch working together for one company 5-6 days a week. And six guys is not a lot. Some teams have that for one car. But I am being realistic and that would be a lot more then RGM has now (I think). Also with the COT there are not the 10 differant types of cars being built for all these differant tracks. You have one style car and you just change the set up for that track. So you might not need as many engineers. Now I would also look at getting a 7 post shaker or look into a partnership with another team, or even look to do some sort of lease deal with a team like RYR who now has one. Maybe buy blocks of time per month that you get to use the machine. And I'm sure there are other pieces of equipment that RGM is still lacking that they need. So I would look into putting a plan together to get those pieces.

Now if there is still some budget left I would look at putting a part time test program together. Maybe hire a vetren truck series driver, someone who has had Cup experiance and is now running trucks, and have them do some sort of testing for you between there truck schedule. The reason for only a part time program is that you will now have two full time Cup cars on the track every week and a Busch car which will be differant but there is still some information that can be looked at, like track conditions and tire wear. Currently RGM has one car and there is no other team to bounce info off of. So this would be like having 3 times the info on a given weekend.

The drivers I would be looking at to start this team would be Robby, Paul Menard and Brenden Gaughn in the Busch car. The reason is that Paul and Brenden can bring some financial support with them. So Menards Home improvment could be on Pauls car and maybe find another part time primary sponsor to split the cost of Menards sponsorship. Then on the Busch car try to keep Motorola/Verizon for half of the season and maybe bring "Gaughn's" South Point on for the other half or until you can secure more sponsorship.

Now who knows maybe RG has already talked to Menard, and Menard is not willing to do this. Maybe his shot of making something like this happen was the RYR/RGM deal that fell through. I still think the money was coming from Menard for that deal.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that I am missing but this is my base line set up for the team I would like to see.

[michael_loomis]

go back to chevy power.. everything was on the right track up until the switch to FoMoCo..

that and go back and lay more eggs into the COT basket about a year earlier...

[Mary Kay]

Maybe he needs to steps back and let someone else make some choices for the team.
He maybe be smart, but he can not do it all!
He is spreading himself way to thin.

[spalind]

go back to chevy power.. everything was on the right track up until the switch to FoMoCo..

that and go back and lay more eggs into the COT basket about a year earlier...

Now that is untrue...look it up...he ran chevy all last year and finished no better than 27th in ANY of his last 9 races...in fact he shows nearly the same pattern this year as he did last year...his best finishes and highest rankings came right at the very beginning of the year and slowly (or not so slowly) fell down the standings...This year he started off better (with the top 15 at Daytona) but has fallen quicker...things are no more or less "on track" this year than they were last year...Now I will agree with you about the engine deal in an overall view...he is on his 3rd engine package in 3 years...that CANNOT breed familiarlity and comfort amongst his staff and engineers....I understand why he made the changes each time but it has not worked out in the long run...

[RGFan]

Now that is untrue...look it up...he ran chevy all last year and finished no better than 27th in ANY of his last 9 races...in fact he shows nearly the same pattern this year as he did last year...his best finishes and highest rankings came right at the very beginning of the year and slowly (or not so slowly) fell down the standings...This year he started off better (with the top 15 at Daytona) but has fallen quicker...things are no more or less "on track" this year than they were last year...Now I will agree with you about the engine deal in an overall view...he is on his 3rd engine package in 3 years...that CANNOT breed familiarlity and comfort amongst his staff and engineers....I understand why he made the changes each time but it has not worked out in the long run...

Good point, lack of continuity has probably hurt in a big way.

[RGFan]

Im a big ford fan, but maybe switch to chevy and team with JR. Motorsports, use hendrick engines or even team with Ginn racing. I think JR. and RG could then be competetive. JR has been talking about maybe trying some off road racing in future. It could work. That or JR. switch to Ford.

Jr will only run out of JR Motorsports as a very last resort, according to his manager/sister Kelly Earnhardt Elledge

[FlyHiFlyLo]

1. He needs to finish up his shop.

2. Buy the #4 team.

3. Finish some races on the lead lap.

[ErikShallbetter]

Take all the money spent turning left and put it into desert racing:D

NOTE: this is just a joke, not trying to start any wars.

[RGFan]

1. He needs to finish up his shop.

2. Buy the #4 team.

3. Finish some races on the lead lap.

I think Larry McClure would rather blow up the entire shop, cars and all, then sell his operation to Robby Gordon.....I think he just finished paying Robby off a year or two ago:D

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I think Larry McClure would rather blow up the entire shop, cars and all, then sell his operation to Robby Gordon.....I think he just finished paying Robby off a year or two ago:D


A new shop then add a turn key team would be sweet ... I still think the #4 is a number that needs to be got... Numbers like 39, 51, 64 etc are so lame.

The MMM deal would be sweet because they still have an engine building facility MMM can keep. Just take the Number, Tools, Haulers, COTs, Spares, 30% of the peeps, CC, sponsor and Driver. At least it puts a car number in RG's stable that just can't be thrown away when franchizing ever becomes reality.

[Hemp]

honestly i think if he wants the nascar thing to work he needs to put aside off road racing, dakar, and whatever else and put 100 percent effort into nascar

I would hate to see that but putting off road on the back burner for a while might be a good thing for his nascar effort

[RGFan]

A new shop then add a turn key team would be sweet ... I still think the #4 is a number that needs to be got... Numbers like 39, 51, 64 etc are so lame.

The MMM deal would be sweet because they still have an engine building facility MMM can keep. Just take the Number, Tools, Haulers, COTs, Spares, 30% of the peeps, CC, sponsor and Driver. At least it puts a car number in RG's stable that just can't be thrown away when franchizing ever becomes reality.

Dude, I agree, in theory it sounds great, there is just that one thing about Larry cutting RG after only 5 races back in 2001 and RG had an air tight contract. RG had a 4 or 5 year contract and Larry had to pay it all and was absolutely pissed about it. Robby is not even mentioned about being a past driver for Morgan Mcclure at all to this day. That whole deal ended extremely ugly and almost finished RG in Nascar all together.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Dude, I agree, in theory it sounds great, there is just that one thing about Larry cutting RG after only 5 races back in 2001 and RG had an air tight contract. RG had a 4 or 5 year contract and Larry had to pay it all and was absolutely pissed about it. Robby is not even mentioned about being a past driver for Morgan Mcclure at all to this day. That whole deal ended extremely ugly and almost finished RG in Nascar all together.

It wasn't like that. Where did you hear that?

[RGFan]

It wasn't like that. Where did you hear that? Someone who was around for it.....

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I know Robby and MMM settled the contract in 2001.

[RGFan]

I know Robby and MMM settled the contract in 2001.

They did settle in 2001, but Larry Mcclure had to pay RG for the entire 5 years, for only 5 races raced. Robby was left in the dark about the entire thing until it was to late......I will try to see if I can find something on it......

[RGFan]

Here is the only thing I can find on it Fly, it was 6 years ago.........Sorry

Gordon Gone? UPDATE 6 NO, it's Gordon!: hearing Robby Gordon and the #4 Morgan McClure Kodak team have parted ways effective immediatedly, no word on who will drive the car at Darlington. Rick Mast? Loy Allen? Wally Dallenbach? Morgan Shepherd? Kevin Lepage?
UPDATE: from NASCAR.com Buzz - Reports filtered throughout the industry Tuesday that Morgan McClure Motorsports and Robby Gordon had parted ways, effective immediately, but according to a team spokesperson, that is not the case. Not yet anyway AND a column from SpeedVision by Ben Blake: R. Gordon Out of 4 Car?
UPDATE 2: ESPN2's RPM 2Night reports that #4 owner Larry McClure said there is a possibility of a change but at this time Gordon is still the driver(3-13-2001)
UPDATE 3: Rumors of a breakup have been circulating through the garage area for weeks. Contacted Tuesday, team officials said Gordon, 32, was expected to be in the team’s #4 Kodak Film Chevy this weekend when the series heads to Darlington. Beyond that, however, officials could not confirm that Gordon would be the driver of record for the 19-year-old organization(Kingsport Times News) AND Although team sources said Tuesday evening that no official move has been made with the Abingdon-based team, various reports indicated that Gordon could be replaced by this weekend's event at Darlington. M-M general manager Larry McClure said Tuesday night that he could not comment on the matter at this time. Sources did confirm that McClure has been talking about replacing Gordon(Bristol Herald Courier)
UPDATE 4: Although rumors to the contrary continue to fly throughout the NASCAR industry, McClure said Wednesday morning that no changes have beenmade to his race team at this time. That apparently is not the case, NASCAR.com BUZZ reports, according to an industry source. Although Robby Gordon will be the driver of the #4 Chevy this weekend, he'll be using his own chassis for the first time this year. The source said that Morgan-McClure's chassis are antiquated and have plagued drivers for years(NASCAR.com BUZZ). Hearing Kevin Lepage coulde be in the #4 car at Darlington or Bristol(3-15-2001)
UPDATE 5: Robby Gordon has been released and Kevin Lepage will drive the #4 Kodak Chevy at Darlington, announcement is supposedly to be made at Darlington on Saturday morning. Lepage is not consiedered a permanent replacement for Gordon. Gordon doesn't have another ride lined up but sources say he has spoken to a couple teams in the last few weeks(ESPN2's RPM 2Night)(3-16-2001) AND a few names I hear being tossed around is Bobby Hillin Jr, Kenny Wallace(but he insists he is not going anywhere and is sticking with the #27 Eel River Racing team, so don't look for that to happen), Rick Mast(but the #50 just signed a sponsor) and Wally Dallenbach(3-17-2001)
UPDATE 6: To the surprise of many, Robby Gordon showed up to drive Larry McClure's #4 car in morning practice Saturday at Darlington Raceway. McClure said Gordon would be in the car through this weekend's Carolina Dodge Dealers 400, but he would not say more. All signs pointed to Gordon's having been dismissed this week, after just four races in the car. Apparently, however, whatever difficulties there are were patched over, at least for one more week. In fact, team representatives had prepared to announce that Kevin Lepage would drive #4 this weekend, on a spot basis(SpeedVision)(3-17-2001)





during Fox Sports Net practice coverage, a few things were mentioned. That they heard that Kevin Lepage was fitted for the seat in the #4 car. Robby Gordon's and Morgan-McClures lawyers are talking. Gordon would only say he has a 5-year contract. The chassis being run at Darlington is a Morgan-McClure chassis not a Gordon Chassis as rumored and not a third party chassis such as Laughlin or Hopkins. Lepage seen talking to a Kodak crew member(3-17-2001)
UPDATE: Robby Gordon has heard all the rumors, that car owner Larry McClure is planning to make a driver change quickly, that Kevin Lepage might be the man in McClure's cars. But Gordon said he's not going gently into the night. He's got a five-year contract with McClure, he plans to live up to his part of the bargain and he doesn't plan to be the fall guy in any sponsor debates. But now again there are more rumors of a pending change. Lepage said he can't say anything. Gordon said he's not giving up without a good fight.(Winston Salem Journal)(see next story for more)(3-18-2001)
UPDATE 2: Controversy continues to shroud the Larry McClure team. This weekend, Robby Gordon pointed to his five-year contract and said he's staying with the team. Kevin Lepage said on a Grand National prerace show that he'll be in the McClure car in a matter of time. Crew chief David Ifft said he doesn't want to spend a whole year with the team. And McClure, for his part, isn't saying much(Richmond Times Dispatch)(3-19-2001)
UPDATE 3: Morgan-McClure Motorsports/Kodak and driver Robby Gordon have agreed to terminate their contract. This change is effective immediately. A driver for the No. 4 Chevrolet for the this weekend's Food City 500 at Bristol Motor Speedway will be announced on Thursday. Morgan-McClure will name a permanent driver at a later date(Morgan McClure PR), still hearing Kevin Lepage will be the driver at Bristol but may not be the permanent driver(3-21-2001)

UPDATE 4: Kevin Lapage has been named to drive the #4 car at Bristol, a permanent driver will be named at a later date. Gordon was on ESPN2's RPM 2Night Thursday and says he has talked to some Cup owners and IRL teams(3-22-2001)

UPDATE 5: ESPN2's RPM 2Night reports that Rick Mast has talked to #4 Owner Larry McClure about driving the Kodak Chevy(3-24-2001)
UPDATE - $4 million? the price tag for Robby Gordon's release? According to one source of the Winston Salem Journal, it was $4 million, to buy out the rest of his five-year contract with car owner Larry McClure(Winston Salem Journal) AND from an AP Story: Gordon, a former Indy-car driver, said he doesn't want to go back to open-wheel racing. Although he said he'll probably run in the Indianapolis 500 in May, he's looking for sponsorship for the stock car he owns and operated last season in Winston Cup(AP/That's Racin')(3-24-2001)

[RGFan]

Regardless, anything is possible, but I just do not see it. I have been wrong before. Man, just because we are talking about this, I am going to change my avtar for a day, in rememberence of....:D

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Regardless, anything is possible, but I just do not see it. I have been wrong before. Man, just because we are talking about this, I am going to change my avtar for a day, in rememberence of....:D


Nice Avatar! With the way Wad and MMM are going, MMM could/should make a sale for 2 Million... Kodak clearly wasn't happy either. LOL

[NicksTrix]

" a few names I hear being tossed around is Bobby Hillin Jr, Kenny Wallace(but he insists he is not going anywhere and is sticking with the #27 Eel River Racing team, so don't look for that to happen), Rick Mast(but the #50 just signed a sponsor) and Wally Dallenbach(3-17-2001)"

man those are some impressive names to potentially be replaced by. wonder what bobby hillin is doing these days? maybe he could drive a second car for someone...maybe rick wilson, i think he's got some time available now that he's running the whisper palms trailer park...

why buy MMM? they are 3 hours away. a bunch of used equiptment that is depreciated out already. if he's got all this big menards money behind him, buy it new and get the write off and not a bunch of used up junk.
those guys aren't going to move down here. they live up there for a reason. would you really want them?

it's going to take more than money to straighten this deal out. sure you could throw 20-30 mil at it and see what it does. but who's going to control the destiny of it? RG? who's going to give it to you? you've got to show some serious promise running now i'd say to convince someone to roll that kind of money your way.
why does the management team seem to always scram after a bit with him? there is a revolving door in the equation that needs to be eliminated somehow. it starts at the top i'd have to say. why is it that since rg has been involved in this deal since 97 it's been a constant personel shuffle? i'm not trying to bash robby, i like robby. i just have first hand experience with him running the show.

if john menard wanted to own a nascar team, don't you think he would have by now?

i don't know how to fix it. i guess if i did have the absolute answers i'd have my name on the smoke stack of one of these deals rather than just being a number in one.
i just have the perspective from the inside.

times are changing and the picture will be very different in a few years. this is a very different game now compared to what i signed up for 15 years ago.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Nick it's just my feeing that a turn key team would be less of a mess then a whole new team...

[michael_loomis]

personel shuffles due to lack of performance.. it happens with ALL teams, not just RGM.

sponsors arent happy in the back and they've got to show there trying somehow.

[BAJACATDIESEL]

Buying the 4 team would not do anything to benifit RGM. They are not in the top 35 they dont have the talent pool ,no offence to the 4 team but how can you have the most talented people and be 3 hours from the talent pool ?
How do you fix RGM ???
I love Robby but you gotta get him outta the seat full time to take a step back a look at what is going on . Id say put a veteran racer like Bill Elliot or Ken Scrader or someone like that who will not tear up a buch of equipment.
Robby himself will run a second car at selected races with a RandD team who also is a COT TEST TEAM. Next year Robby slides back in the 7 and the second car will be piloted by someone. However it would not be best for RGM to have A Ryan Hunter Raey in any kinda BGN or cup car at this time . I say take all the current cars and roll that into an arca team or hooters procup team for RHR. The BGN TEAM ?????? Part time with Robby serving as the wheel man . No one can argue that something needs to happen , they have got to quit losing people and develop some talent in the pit and shop too . But as long as its a 1 car team it will be much of the same , otherwise you burn your guys out working 60+ hours a week , that is exactley what happened to Greg. Do you think he will work as hard a Roush Fenway ?

[NicksTrix]

fly i don't think it would be a real turn key package since the personel wouldn't be part of it. sure it's easy to buy up a bunch of used stuff, but if you know robby, none of it would be "to his standards" and you end up reworking it all. thats a waste of money & time. in the big picture you'd be better off to start from stractch and get what you want.
the red bull team has done that, sure they've struggled, but they are making progress. even aj wallbanger is making shows more consistantly now. they got the gear they wanted and equiptment to their spec. i'm not sure why they even bothered buying penskes old shop, they've changed about everything there and have added on quite a bit.

i know TRB are doing quite a bit of testing as i see their test rig missing from the parking lot as i head into work.

it's a tough spot RG has gotten himself into and it's going to be had to get out of.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Who cares if the #4 team is out of the top 35... That is actually a good thing... They have to work on qualify setup... That is information that needs to be shared... If the 4 makes the field well than good RG will have a race setup to share. Starting in the 30s impacts the whole race from pit selection to the dirty air...

My whole deal with the #4 is the number itself.... That is a good number to have and is marketable...

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Looks like Gene Nead made every call today and Robby beat 33 top teams. I would say ... This is one issue behind the team.

[JRod]

Mean Gene is all around pretty good- Sure is nice to see him making changes that he sees need to be made and changes that actually affect the handling of the car. I still say it would be nice to pick up Hamlin as an engineer/director of competition type deal until the second team comes next year...

[michael_loomis]

Id have to give the props to Gene , and a big atta boy to Robby for not getting a temper from being told what to do.

definately on the right track to fixing the team..

[kaw500]

I just have to agree with all of you regarding Gene, I noticed at the 600 he had a style & knowledge that just might be the combination RGM is looking for. Taking nothing away from GI who I respect and he will have success with the #16.

[REEVESRacing]

I just have to agree with all of you regarding Gene, I noticed at the 600 he had a style & knowledge that just might be the combination RGM is looking for. Taking nothing away from GI who I respect and he will have success with the #16.

What a relief seeing the car handle and listening to radio comms.

It was functional, Gene was running race , RG was driving the car, finally.

[Soylent_Green]

What would you do to help fix RGM Nascar Team:

Find John Menard a new girlfriend.

[NIKAL]

What would you do to help fix RGM Nascar Team:

Find John Menard a new girlfriend.

No kidding! LOL! Even with Paul's dad sleeping with the boss and giving her $20 mil, he's still out of the top 35 in points. I cant imagine what John will have to do to get his kid in the top 35 in points!

[RGFan]

What would you do to help fix RGM Nascar Team:

Find John Menard a new girlfriend.

Hopefully a girl that works at RGM:D

[RGFan]

hey, how about Greg Biffle and Greg Erwin....6th...Looks like Greg was not the problem either......Seems like everybody just needed a little shaking up. But one race does not a season make....Lets hope things continue to go.....RG sure likes racing on Monday.....Remember Loudon in 2001

[FlyHiFlyLo]

But one race does not a season make....

Oh....Easy there Yoda. :D

[movindirt]

Holy Crap, I leave for Wisconisn this past Sunday, miss the race on Monday, and just get the laptop up and going on Tuesday....Nice finish RGM, it is about darned time

Ummm, I would request that RGFan not watch the races.:eek: :rolleyes: :D

[RGFan]

Ummm, I would request that RGFan not watch the races.:eek: :rolleyes: :D

Do you think that has not already crossed my mind:D

[RGFan]

What a great weekend for Team G. Lets hope for some more progress.

[JRod]

Do you think that has not already crossed my mind:D

HAHAHA- I think that crossed a lot of people's minds!

[kaw500]

HAHAHA- I think that crossed a lot of people's minds!

:D :D :D Crossed mine:D :D :D

RGFAN I wondered where you were on Monday.