Hans Device/D-Cell device

[Tanner1600]

All off-road racers should ware a D-cell or Hans Device
IT is just plain stupid
It does not matter what class you race in

[scombs]

does anybody have any info or opinions on the teamtech tucker helmet harness vs the d-cell device we are running the teamtech helmet harness any info on the d-cell differences would be appreciated.

[CRAIG_HALL]

Aren't they required for the kids in Trophy Kart ?? That alone should tell us something...

[Grove32]

I do know that the D-cell protects your neck from side-to-side movement, as well as forward movement. The hans is mostly for front impact situations. For off-road racing, I think the D-cell is the way to go of the two. I wear a D-cell and won't race without one.

[CHROMOLY77]

i agre this should be mandatory same has having a updated helmet..

[kats]

http://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/prod_images/image.aspx/large/50000.jpg

[BA_DirtDriver]

Absolutely should be a requirement. A D-cell is as important as a helmet and you can't get in our car without one. We had a large discussion on this way back around the release of all the forensic data on the Earnhardt crash. The combination of side to side and front to back protection makes the D-cell a little better choice than the Hans for off-road type incidents. While the harness is a little uncomfortable at first, you will get used to it. What is the downside to adding additional protection?

Just my .02

Bret

Also important to get a D-cell fitted properly and adjusted after first race.

[PORTER TT#22]

How about if everyone waits for awhile before remarking on this topic out of respect for the family's loss at Primm yesterday. I do not think it is professional to talk about this so close to the accident.
Thanks guys,
Mark Porter

[fishd00d]

Ok guys lets try and keep this thread a general discussion about the D-Cell/Hans systems.

So who is running what system exactly and how do you like it?

[Kartman]

i agre this should be mandatory same has having a updated helmet..

I think everyone should wear some kind of HNR but im against rules making them mandatory.

And I use the Dcel. Only used it a couple of times but I am happy with it

[MNotary]

Check out the Teamtech stuff. Not well known but alot of the top guys are using it. I just got the helmet restraint. Will probably end up with the rest of it sooner or later.

[FAF07]

I think everyone should wear some kind of HNR but im against rules making them mandatory.

Kartman,
I do agree with you, that everyone should wear some sort of HNR, however, I do believe that SCORE and other sanctioning bodies; such as BITD, CODE, MDR, MORE, SNORE etc, should require some sort of HNR to every racer (rider and driver), to avoid possible lawsuits other legal issues, and overall racer safety. But I guess thats why there are DRIVER / RIDER REGISTRATION and DRIVER MEETINGS.

It doesn't make senses how someone could afford to buy a $250,000 +/- racecar, but not buy, or even consider using, a $800 HNR device while operating it, or even going along for the ride.


What happened to Mr. Morales is an absolute tragedy, and my heart goes out to his family and friends (Godspeed Eric), but let this be a lesson, and hopefully open a lot of eyes, to the off-road community.

[Chris_Wilson]

I wore the Safety Solutions D-cell harness for the first time at Primm (navigating a 1 car). Once in the car it never was a problem and did not in any way interfere with my job. In fact it was more confortable than before and I was less sore than normal the next day.

In the pits before I got in the car it felt confining and I was concerned about it but it's not an issue and I would encourage everyone to wear one. It's costs about the same as a helmet. Not cheap when you are on a budget but just consider it table stakes and get one, regardless of the class you race in. I'd wear it in any race class after trying it and I doubt I will ever test or race without it again. I might even prerun the 1000 with it on because of it's comfort and how much better I felt the next day.

[desertracer]

I started wearing a D-Cell a couple years ago once we started racing class 1 more seriously. It is easy to get out of the car with it on to change a tire etc. My neck does not get as sore compared to wearing a neck collar. It was tricky to get used to at first but don't notice it all now. While sitting in the car to start Primm, it looked like Larry Roeseler wasn't wearing any device, can anybody confirm this? It took me by suprise.

[Sheaco]

Our team uses the D-cell device. They take a lil to get use to but after awhile it becomes second nature. Last year at V2R one of our trucks indoed and the crash ended their day but not their life. The D-cells did the job, afterwards we noticed that the D-cells were streched an inch or so from what they were at the beginning of the race. I don't know about the other ones cuz I don't use them.

[Tipracer]

I'm sorry to say but the day's of racing with out a HNR are long gone, the vehicles are just so freaking fast compared to what used to be fast that now you should not even get in the car without one. We wear fire suits,helmets, gloves, ect.. the cars are held to higher standards of safety, and yet we don't want to require a HNR???!! At a very minimum the TT's, and class ones should, for that matter so should most of the pro vehicles. It has become an all to common occurance that we lose one of our brothers to the sport, racing is dangerous and we should at least do it to prevent another preventable death.
my .02

[9rocky]

I also think they should be worn by all racers. I would think the problem with an off road promoter making them mandatory is liability. Without the dollars and facilities to test, such as Nascar, if they were made mandatory, and something happened anyways, there might be an attempt to hold them liable.

[Chris Tobin]

I also think they should be worn by all racers. I would think the problem with an off road promoter making them mandatory is liability. Without the dollars and facilities to test, such as Nascar, if they were made mandatory, and something happened anyways, there might be an attempt to hold them liable.

I have a hard time accepting that logic as a reason the sanctioning body would not make them manditory... Think about it, the belts, helmets and cages are all manditory and bad things happen now. So why would they be more liable with additional safety requirements? I would think it could actually go the opposite way for the sanctioning bodies that do not require HNRs in that since other major sanctioning bodies (NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL, F1...) require it, someone is racing where it isn't required and gets hurt without one... It could be construed (sp) as negligence on the sanctioning body's part for not requiring it?

I am not a lawyer nor do I want to be but I really think that requiring proper safety equipment is a good thing, and like others have said... "If you can afford a race car, how can you justify not having the best/most safety equipment possible?"

I for one plan on using some sort of HNR, probably the D-Cell, next time I get in a race vehicle!

just my 0.02

[TyBo1001]

It's possible that the sanctioning bodies (SCORE, BITD, etc..) could see an increase in their premiums from the insurance companies they each use for liability coverage, unless they require it. That may force their hand in making some sort of HNR mandatory. I myself plan on investing in one, either way.

[ASHCRAFT]

I wore a D-cell for the first time at Primm this year. Had no issues with it. It improved my driving by keeping my vision steady in the harsh whoops. It should be mandatory in SCORE. It is mandatory on my team. Its either $500 or a broken neck. you decide

[9rocky]

I have a hard time accepting that logic as a reason the sanctioning body would not make them manditory... Think about it, the belts, helmets and cages are all manditory and bad things happen now. So why would they be more liable with additional safety requirements? I would think it could actually go the opposite way for the sanctioning bodies that do not require HNRs in that since other major sanctioning bodies (NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL, F1...) require it, someone is racing where it isn't required and gets hurt without one... It could be construed (sp) as negligence on the sanctioning body's part for not requiring it?

I am not a lawyer nor do I want to be but I really think that requiring proper safety equipment is a good thing, and like others have said... "If you can afford a race car, how can you justify not having the best/most safety equipment possible?"

I for one plan on using some sort of HNR, probably the D-Cell, next time I get in a race vehicle!

just my 0.02

We will be racing with them from now on. Until they are made mandatory, it will be up to the racers to adopt this policy. Anyone in our car will be wearing a D-Cel. It is like insurance, you don't need it till you have to make a claim. In the case of a HNR, when you go to make the claim, it could be too late.

[DUMP!]

it looked like Larry Roeseler wasn't wearing any device, can anybody confirm this? It took me by suprise.

I'll ask Larry, but I would be shocked to find out that he wasn't wearing his d-cell. All the Herbst boys as well as Larry have been using them for years now. In fact we are in the process of phasing out the old units for the latest offering from Safety Solutions.

Dump

[sjcr125]

Do the D cells come in one size, and are very adjustable, or are there different sizes.. any links to somewhere with different sizes?

[johnnyweb]

i can say that i will be purchasing some sort of head/neck restrant system. i personally think the feed back her is a positive thing to get more guys aware of the devises and using them.

[TyBo1001]

http://www.upr.com/product.php?productid=522&cat=56

This link had the best info I could find for sizing up a harness.

[J.COLEMAN]

In fact we are in the process of phasing out the old units for the latest offering from Safety Solutions.

Dump

I am in the same boat.. i have used a d-cell for 3 years now and i am now looking into the newer products such as the R3 that have much better sled test results. I love my d-cell and would not get in a race vehicle without it! I had the unfortunate event of crashing this year and i of course had my d-cell on and i could feel it save my neck from the force of the impact. It doesnt matter what class you race you are still at risk and you need to look into these products that are now available for our own personal saftey!

http://www.lfttech.com/images/pdf/R3%20PASS%202.pdf

[ndvalium]

Do the D cells come in one size, and are very adjustable, or are there different sizes.. any links to somewhere with different sizes?

http://www.theracedepot.com/product18.htm

There is a size chart on the bottom of the page.

[KevinC]

We are new to the sport and a low budget team, but my mind is made up. If I can't afford to race the next race because of my D-Cell purchase - so be it! I am on board and will require all of my teammates to wear one as well.

P.S. I hope Eric's family knows that there will be a lot of good that will come from his passing - RIP.

Kevin
KPC Motorsports

[C.J. Hutchins]

HNR's should obviously be mandatory for all classes. I think that it is also time SCORE comes up with some sort of licensing program. I understand it would be expensive and time consuming for everyone, but would make it much more safe. Most types of racing require licenses for the class you desire to race in. You don't just go buy a top fuel car and go to the next NHRA event. Personally I think there are too many "racers" that have never drove anything before and now they are in a car capable of speeds in the 130's. This may be far fetched for some, but definitely something to think about.

[seven racer]

Maybe score can put off making us all buy new car helmets for next year when some of our motorcycle rated helmets are only a few years old. And make us all buy some sort of safety harness. just a thought.

[scombs]

our team is wearing the teamtech HNR i like the fact that it has a kidney belt which makes recovery from a race much easier, the only downfall that i see is the teamtech doesnot wrap around your legs to keep your lower body in tact, any thoughts?

[ndvalium]

Maybe score can put off making us all buy new car helmets for next year when some of our motorcycle rated helmets are only a few years old. And make us all buy some sort of safety harness. just a thought.

I am no helmet expert but since all these devices are used to lock into your helmet, wouldn't you want to have the right helmet to lock it into. Would a motorcycle helmet have the same composites that a vehicle helmet does. If not you are going to have a pretty harness that pulls right out of the helmet at time of impact right?

I have heard that is why motorcycle / quad guys prefer the leatt brace and those style braces as they do not attach to the helmet. Do your homework on what you like but make the investment. Everyone who rides or drives is wortht he price.

[Chris Tobin]

I am no helmet expert but since all these devices are used to lock into your helmet, wouldn't you want to have the right helmet to lock it into. Would a motorcycle helmet have the same composites that a vehicle helmet does. If not you are going to have a pretty harness that pulls right out of the helmet at time of impact right?

I have heard that is why motorcycle / quad guys prefer the leatt brace and those style braces as they do not attach to the helmet. Do your homework on what you like but make the investment. Everyone who rides or drives is wortht he price.

I may be wrong on this but isn't the main difference between the Snell SA (auto) and Snell MA (mc) certification the fire resistance of the liner. I think the impact and structure testing is the same, but the auto rating includes fire testing since fire is more likely in the cockpit than on a bike.

[MIKEY CHILDRESS]

WEAR A DECEL OR A R3. I crashed at this years Parker 425 made a bad mistake and drove the truck off a cliff about 30 feet to the bottom without touching anything before hitting the bottom. I hit so hard it knocked the wind out of me and made me black out for a few seconds. I was wearing a DECEL thank GOD. I got out of the truck and I was fine just a gash on my shin were the brake fitting from the master got me. Alot of people have DECELS but they are not installed correct. Go to Doug at BSR Parker Pumper and hey knows his **[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]**. Also I think the next step in safety for our sport is the seats we race in..Yeah the beards and Mastercrafts are really comfortable but I bealive that they can be more safe. I met a guy from ISP seats this weekend and they make a seat that is made for you kinda like a go cart seat but with belts and a head restraints. I sat in a seat that was made for Alan Phlueger and I felt Bullet proof. I think that we all need to look at the bigger picture..Yeah the nice paint job and the car and the awesome pre runners,and kickass chase trucks are cool. But I think we should all drop a little cash on driver safety. I will be finding a way to get the new ISP seat for our class 1 car.

[scombs]

Mikey check out the the sparco seats thay have that bullet proof feeling. thats my .02
again this is just my opinion.

[sweetdevil]

I think the consensus is to make them mandatory and everyone seems like they are going to get one regardless, so please remember the most important part of getting a D Cell (or any HNR):

MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROPERLY FITTED. I have seen people walking around wearing them looser than Cameron Steel wears his pants. (And I'm talking about his dickeis, not the rocker pants from Satuday night) If they are not tight and restricting your head and neck movement, they are not going to prevent any injuries.

Jimmy and I can help you get them fitted at contingency, we're at just about every race, so come by the trailer with your suit, D Cell and helmet so we can make sure you are adjusted properly. Harold from Parker Pumper has also been at the CORR races to help with this, they had Safety Solutions down at the CORR race to answer any questions about them as well.

Please make sure they are fitted properly. PCI sells D-Cells, can do the installation on the helmet if you are not comfortable drilling into your helmet and can get you fitted at a race.

[Uncle_Bob]

I think the consensus is to make them mandatory and everyone seems like they are going to get one regardless, so please remember the most important part of getting a D Cell (or any HNR):

MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROPERLY FITTED. I have seen people walking around wearing them looser than Cameron Steel wears his pants. (And I'm talking about his dickeis, not the rocker pants from Satuday night) If they are not tight and restricting your head and neck movement, they are not going to prevent any injuries.

Jimmy and I can help you get them fitted at contingency, we're at just about every race, so come by the trailer with your suit, D Cell and helmet so we can make sure you are adjusted properly. Harold from Parker Pumper has also been at the CORR races to help with this, they had Safety Solutions down at the CORR race to answer any questions about them as well.

Please make sure they are fitted properly. PCI sells D-Cells, can do the installation on the helmet if you are not comfortable drilling into your helmet and can get you fitted at a race.

Will you be at the MORE race this weekend? We are ready to get our team members set-up after this last weekend!

GodSpeed Eric

[sweetdevil]

M = Motorcycle, SA = Specialty Application.

The composite of the helmet varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. As said in previous threads, most M rated helmets would be SA if they had the fire retardent liner, screw in shield and went through SA testing.

Some Simpson helmets are only different liners to be an M or SA because their shell has been tested and the shield screws on.

You can install a D Cell on an M or SA rated helmet. I wouldn't recommend installing it on an M since they won't be legal next year...

[sweetdevil]

Will you be at the MORE race this weekend? We are ready to get our team members set-up after this last weekend!

GodSpeed Eric

We will be at the CORR race and the Sand Sports Super show this weekend. You still have a few days left if you can make it down here, or just swing through Lancaster early Friday am on your way to Barsow to get adjusted - you're up that way, right?

[Kartman]

I may be wrong on this but isn't the main difference between the Snell SA (auto) and Snell MA (mc) certification the fire resistance of the liner. I think the impact and structure testing is the same, but the auto rating includes fire testing since fire is more likely in the cockpit than on a bike.
Go to the source


Snell Helmet FAQ
http://www.smf.org/faqs.html

What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?
The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:

1. The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
2. The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
3. The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi impact test while M standard does not.

[ASHCRAFT]

Just sent an email to Sal voicing my opinions on the D-cell. I stated that I would like SCORE to consider requiring Head and neck restraints.

I layed my car over this weekend at Primm going about about 45mph. I came to a sudden stop when I hit a burm and a pile of rocks. I am thankfull that I was wearing my D-cell.

[Triaged]

...I think that it is also time SCORE comes up with some sort of licensing program. I understand it would be expensive and time consuming for everyone, but would make it much more safe...


I have a hard time accepting that logic as a reason the sanctioning body would not make them manditory... Think about it, the belts, helmets and cages are all manditory and bad things happen now. So why would they be more liable with additional safety requirements? I would think it could actually go the opposite way for the sanctioning bodies that do not require HNRs in that since other major sanctioning bodies (NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL, F1...) require it, someone is racing where it isn't required and gets hurt without one... It could be construed (sp) as negligence on the sanctioning body's part for not requiring it?

I am not a lawyer nor do I want to be but I really think that requiring proper safety equipment is a good thing, and like others have said... "If you can afford a race car, how can you justify not having the best/most safety equipment possible?"

This is why the SFI was started. Racing org's can just say that you need an "SFI 38.1 approved head/neck restraint". This is no different then requiring an SFI approved 5-point harness or fire suit. I am not sure how much it costs to become a member of SFI which is required to site their spec.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/home.html
http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sfi+38.1&btnG=Google+Search

[GROVERACING]

I have been using the d-cel for a couple years now, thanks to Doug at Parker Pumper. I hated it at first but with the proper fitting it is much better. I will be trying the new R3 unit because it is said to be more comfortable and has higher test numbers. I have crashed with a hnr and without the difference is huge even without major injury. I highly recommend any form.

[Kartman]

Is SCORE mandated the 38.1 spec then all the D Cels are out. I think that would be a very bad move.

[CHASER]

We will be at the CORR race and the Sand Sports Super show this weekend. You still have a few days left if you can make it down here, or just swing through Lancaster early Friday am on your way to Barsow to get adjusted - you're up that way, right?

Will you be at the Chula Corr race? If so could I stop by with my gear for a re-fit? It's been a few years since mine was set up.

Thanks.

[CHASER]

I have been using the d-cel for a couple years now, thanks to Doug at Parker Pumper. I hated it at first but with the proper fitting it is much better. I will be trying the new R3 unit because it is said to be more comfortable and has higher test numbers. I have crashed with a hnr and without the difference is huge even without major injury. I highly recommend any form.


What is the R3? Who makes it?

[Kartman]

What is the R3? Who makes it?

http://www.lfttech.com/images/pdf/R3%20PASS%202.pdf

[sweetdevil]

Will you be at the Chula Corr race? If so could I stop by with my gear for a re-fit? It's been a few years since mine was set up.

Thanks.

Yes, we will be at the Chula Vista race, bring everything by we will make sure you are adjusted!

The R3 is another Safety Solutions item. I've heard great things about them. Most people chose the D Cel because of affordability. The R3 is $995.95. We also carry these. www.lfttech.com (http://www.lfttech.com/) These are also SFI 38.1. I doubt SCORE would require SFI 38.1 restraints before the required SFI 5 driving suits.

[CHASER]

http://www.lfttech.com/images/pdf/R3%20PASS%202.pdf


Yes, we will be at the Chula Vista race, bring everything by we will make sure you are adjusted!

The R3 is another Safety Solutions item. I've heard great things about them. Most people chose the D Cel because of affordability. The R3 is $995.95. We also carry these. www.lfttech.com (http://www.lfttech.com/) These are also SFI 38.1. I doubt SCORE would require SFI 38.1 restraints before the required SFI 5 driving suits.

Thanks and thanks. I'll be sure to stop by the PCI trailer in Chula.

[Mark_Weyhrich]

R3, PERIOD.

This is the best system we have found. We bought them for everyone who gets in one of our cars.

[TyBo1001]

Here may be an option to overcome the price issue, rent to own. $150 for the first race, $130 for each race after, until you pay it off. You send it back after each race.

http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R3headneckrestraintRental&cat=82

[firedog]

Here is my $.02
Without knowing all the details of the accident I think that requiring a D-Cell is a knee jerk reaction. Let SCORE study the accident and come out with a report with what caused it. When Dale Earnhart died seatbelts were determined to be at fault. Some things that could have contributed in the accident: were the seatbelts mounted correctly to limit travel, was there roll cage padding or any other impact padding in the vehicle? SCORE should study the accident to determine these things so we can all learn. There are Industry standards for impact padding inside the vehicle SFI 45.2 (not around roll bars/cage) and SFI 45.1 when used around a roll bar/cage.

Now on to head and neck restraints...there is an industry standard SFI 38.1 and this should be followed. JW Melvin tested the HANS, Hutchens and D-Cel head and neck restraints and compared their performance to no head and neck restraint. The crash sled test conditions were:stock car cockpit, belts, and seat; 30 degree right front impact direction; 35 MPH velocity change; and 50 G peak crash acceleration...

NONE 5100 N (1147 lb.)*
Simposn D-Cell 3971 N (893 lb)*
Hutchens 4000 N (899 lb)*
HANS 868 N (195 lb)*

*injury threshold for this test 4000 N (899 lb)
The number in the (#lb) is the weight of the head in the crash from the G-Forces!!!

JW Melvins conclusion was that the only head and neck restraint that worked was the HANS the others are marginal.

To my knowledge, the only restraints that meet the industry standard SFI 38.1 are the HANS and R3.

Another thing about the D-Cell is that it is made of Nylon just like all of our SFI certified racing belts, which like our belts will only be good for 3 years, so you will need to buy a new one every 3 years. Nylon stretches approx 30% when in a high G load situation (accident) when brand new, that percentage will increase with the age of the belt even though it looks fine. FIA approved belts are made from polyester and stretch much less and are certified by the manufacture for 5 years...SCORE has a 3 year replacement program.

I am posting this information so we can all make an informed decision on what we might want or not.

[Uncle_Bob]

Thanks for the info Firedog.

After talking to PCI Scott a few minutes ago, I'll be at PCI in the morning to get fitted up.

[sweetdevil]

Here may be an option to overcome the price issue, rent to own. $150 for the first race, $130 for each race after, until you pay it off. You send it back after each race.

http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R3headneckrestraintRental&cat=82

I'll offer the same thing at PCI too, there's no risk in that one for us. You can pick it up and drop it off at the race. Just realize the $995 will be auth'd and held on your card until returned.

If you have $995 that can be authorized to a credit card before it's shipped anyway, wouldn't you just keep it and pay it off in payments instead of paying the $125 in shipping and handling??? 4 races is 5-6 months and even a really crappy interest rate is only $50 in interest for those months... My accountant $.02.

Bob, Scott told me you're coming in. He forgot we have our little staff meeting thing on Wednesday mornings at 8, so anytime after 8:30 would be awesome...

[sweetdevil]

Here is my $.02
Without knowing all the details of the accident I think that requiring a D-Cell is a knee jerk reaction. Let SCORE study the accident and come out with a report with what caused it. When Dale Earnhart died seatbelts were determined to be at fault. Some things that could have contributed in the accident: were the seatbelts mounted correctly to limit travel, was there roll cage padding or any other impact padding in the vehicle? SCORE should study the accident to determine these things so we can all learn. There are Industry standards for impact padding inside the vehicle SFI 45.2 (not around roll bars/cage) and SFI 45.1 when used around a roll bar/cage.

Now on to head and neck restraints...there is an industry standard SFI 38.1 and this should be followed. JW Melvin tested the HANS, Hutchens and D-Cel head and neck restraints and compared their performance to no head and neck restraint. The crash sled test conditions were:stock car cockpit, belts, and seat; 30 degree right front impact direction; 35 MPH velocity change; and 50 G peak crash acceleration...

NONE 5100 N (1147 lb.)*
Simposn D-Cell 3971 N (893 lb)*
Hutchens 4000 N (899 lb)*
HANS 868 N (195 lb)*

*injury threshold for this test 4000 N (899 lb)
The number in the (#lb) is the weight of the head in the crash from the G-Forces!!!

JW Melvins conclusion was that the only head and neck restraint that worked was the HANS the others are marginal.

To my knowledge, the only restraints that meet the industry standard SFI 38.1 are the HANS and R3.

Another thing about the D-Cell is that it is made of Nylon just like all of our SFI certified racing belts, which like our belts will only be good for 3 years, so you will need to buy a new one every 3 years. Nylon stretches approx 30% when in a high G load situation (accident) when brand new, that percentage will increase with the age of the belt even though it looks fine. FIA approved belts are made from polyester and stretch much less and are certified by the manufacture for 5 years...SCORE has a 3 year replacement program.

I am posting this information so we can all make an informed decision on what we might want or not.

The industry standard (off road racing) kind of is the D Cell right now because that is what CORR and Trophy Kart are requiring. No other off road sanctioning bodies have made mention of them. With that said, CORR and SCORE have VERY different rules.

If you only race SCORE and are more concerned about what next years requirements will be, (if any) I would ask Savage before a $450 purchase that may need to be upgraded next year to a $955 purchase. I don't think there is enough time before the Baja 1000 for a requirement, but I can definitely see something happening for next year and I could definitely seeing being something that already had an SFI rating.

Firedog, did JE Melvins test the R3 also or just those three?

[Kartman]

To my knowledge, the only restraints that meet the industry standard SFI 38.1 are the HANS and R3.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1

The following meet SFI 38.1
HANS
Leatt Moto R sport
R3
Hutch II
Hutchens Hybrid
Hybrid X

[firedog]

The industry standard (off road racing) kind of is the D Cell right now because that is what CORR and Trophy Kart are requiring. No other off road sanctioning bodies have made mention of them. With that said, CORR and SCORE have VERY different rules.

If you only race SCORE and are more concerned about what next years requirements will be, (if any) I would ask Savage before a $450 purchase that may need to be upgraded next year to a $955 purchase. I don't think there is enough time before the Baja 1000 for a requirement, but I can definitely see something happening for next year and I could definitely seeing being something that already had an SFI rating.

Firedog, did JE Melvins test the R3 also or just those three?

I'm looking at a hard copy of the test and NO he did not test the R3, it was not available then. Off-Road Racing would fall under the catigory of "motorsports" and the SFI certifications are the industry standards for "motorsports".

[firedog]

http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html#38.1

The following meet SFI 38.1
HANS
Leatt Moto R sport
R3
Hutch II
Hutchens Hybrid
Hybrid X


Cool, Thanks!

[bumpstop]

So glad to see this post! All of the information is really helpful and it is great that we are talking about increased safety. I don't really like being told what to do (requirements) however on this one I am going to have to vote for making it a requirement. I will have one before my first race (and so will my husband ;) Thanks so much for sharing your views! I think the timing of this post is a positive not a negative. Now is when people listen and take action.
ATGATT
Thanks again!

[blacksheep]

DOUG, from parker pumper said the herbst and rosseler have both the decel and the r-3 they prefer the r-3.i myself have ordered a r-3 .in the future nobody will ride in my car without a hnr of some sort,all classes need to be required the accident this weekend was not at high speed.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

Where is the evidence that this incident would have been avoided with the use of a HNR? So far, I've only seen a couple of conflicting eyewitness reports, anecdotal stories and lots of conclusion jumping. I think we should wait for an investigation before clamoring for a new requirement.

Anybody else remember when plastic ski and motorcycle boots started saving ankles but blowing out knees?

I believe this is only the second fatality in an unlimited car after forty years of off road racing. Is the NFL going to switch to flag football after this weekend's incident?

If you have evidence, please post it. Opinions are welcome, but are not facts.

Thanks in advance.

[sweetdevil]

Where is the evidence that this incident would have been avoided with the use of a HNR? So far, I've only seen a couple of conflicting eyewitness reports, anecdotal stories and lots of conclusion jumping. I think we should wait for an investigation before clamoring for a new requirement.

Anybody else remember when plastic ski and motorcycle boots started saving ankles but blowing out knees?

I believe this is only the second fatality in an unlimited car after forty years of off road racing. Is the NFL going to switch to flag football after this weekend's incident?

If you have evidence, please post it. Opinions are Bienvenido, but are not facts.

Thanks in advance.

That's not what this post is about and that is why it was closed previously. Please leave this weekends incident out of this thread for now out of respect for the family. This thread was not created to investigate the accident.

This thread is about safety. People were asked to share information about HNR's likes/dislikes and thoughts about them helping our safety. Please keep this on topic.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

I didn't find it disrespectful when my mother's autopsy was done following her death. Nor did I find it disrespectful when a doctor pronounced my father dead. I don't see how using this incident or others to further safety can be misconstrued as disrespectful.

I'm not trying to "diss" Mr. Morales or his family. Go back and read the posts, except for the threadstarter calling many of us stupid, I think all the posts have been respectful if opinionated.

Since your firm stands to profit from any adoption of further regulation, I think perhaps it is you that, ethically, should either post only facts, not opinions, or refrain from posting.

Thank you.

[Tanner1600]

personally i think that every Race Organization and every type of car should have a D-cell
if you can afford a race car you can afford a d-cell
i dont have one yet before i ever get back in my race car
R.I.P Eric Morales godspeed

[Pro2-54]

Well here is my opinion, when Corr made the head and neck restraint (HNR) manditory this year, I was totally againts it. My opinion was that speeds (at least in a prolite) were not high enough to justify it and a Dale Earnhardt type incident was highly unlikely. So to be in compliance with the rules I purchased the $450 D-Cell. The first time I tried to use it I hated it, I hated the restriction and entire hassle of setting it up and putting it on each time. So I went back to my neck collar set up. I wore the D-Cell as the rules stated, I just never hooked it up (Yes I know stupid) and relied on the old trusted neck collar.
This opinion changed when I over jumped the big jump in Chula Vista during testing and landed on the rear bumper. From the incar camera you can see my head flop so far forward it nearly hit (or may have hit) the steering wheel. Remember I had a full harness holding my shoulders back and I dont sit that close to the steering wheel, so the force on my neck was pretty high. Here is the video for anyone who has not seen it. Pause it before impact and go frame by frame and you will see what I am talking about. http://robertnaughton.com/robert_naughton/Rob-Chula-Test-Day.html (you must have quicktime to view).
In additon to thinking I broke my back, I saw stars with the whiplash and my neck was sore for two months. This experience along with RJ's big crash that day changed my mind. I had the D-cell fitted propery by Safety Solutions who were at Chula Vista that day and this made all the difference. (I highly recommend having it fitted by someone who knows such as PCI or Safety Solutions). If it is not snug it wont do its job.
It still took a little time to get used to but I was fully used to it after a few laps on the track. In fact I now like the feeling of my head being held in place vursus floping side to side or forward. I still do not like the fact that it has crotch straps that must be pulled down until your boys are screaming uncle. But hey I dont plan on having anymore kids and I do feel more confident while racing with it. I will upgrade to the model that straps around you torso for next year and give the boys a break.
Not sure I needed to write a book on why I now believe in the HNR systems but I do and feel fortunate I did not yank my skull from my C1 vertebrea that day in Chula.
Rob
Prolite 54
www.robertnaughton.com

[C Robinson]

After racing with a neck brace and then racing with a D-Cell, i'd have to say everyone needs to get atleast a D-Cell. Just my opinion.

[patcsg]

Walker Evans, and Ivan Stuart didnt wear any neck restraint !

I dont think I want to either........

I have to agree with Drake, No disrespect intended. But the thought process in the above statement is why racers needlessly suffer potentially life threatening injuries or death.
There is a reason that we no longer use leather skull caps, plastic helmets or open face helmets. Because the full face, carbon kevlar, lightweight, fire retardant are better and save lives.
We have seen that HNR devices save racers from what is proven to be certain death.
SAFER barriers, better roll cages, seats etc. We can go on and on.
The fact that Evans and Stuart are still alive may be due to the the fact that not only were they good racers but also the grace of God.
Go ask them and I'll bet that they would wear a HNR, a lightweight SA approved helmet, etc.. if they were available then as well as if they were still racing today.

[nelson979]

ouch. that was an amazing jump

[snoreracer]

HNR's should obviously be mandatory for all classes. I think that it is also time SCORE comes up with some sort of licensing program. I understand it would be expensive and time consuming for everyone, but would make it much more safe. Most types of racing require licenses for the class you desire to race in. You don't just go buy a top fuel car and go to the next NHRA event. Personally I think there are too many "racers" that have never drove anything before and now they are in a car capable of speeds in the 130's. This may be far fetched for some, but definitely something to think about.

CJ, you have the correct answer. Even monster trucks drivers have a license test to race . 10 years ago 99% of the racers started in the limited classes got experience and moved up to class one or trophy trucks. Now with the economy racers have the money to jump into the top tear of off road and this is just plain dangerous to everyone on the track not just the one's in the race car. Rookie unlimited drivers should be required to race a season in sportsman and take a driving course. This is much safer than any head and neck device

[patcsg]

Just a safety note about the D-Cell. They have heavy duty stainless steel D rings to use in place of the cables for certain applications. Many short neck people will need this. My Simpson rep races sprint cars and is very small. The cables were not in the correct location and she had to use the D rings. They mount slightly higher and forward of the cables. My son has them on his Simpson Vudo helmet as well. You can see them in the photo link.
http://patwilsongraphics.com/helmets_may/brooks_chrome_vudo/DSCF0258.JPG
As many have noted, fit is very important!

[blacksheep]

this weekend wasnt the deciding factor for me .i made the decision the week before,ive crashed hard felt lucky.spending some money to feel safer is my decision,will it make a difference i hope i never have to find out.the cars are getting faster and the courses rougher and i know :back in my day; with the blm the courses are ran over and over.theres nothing wrong with promoting safety.for those who dont think its not for them so be it.my concern is for my co rider also,most cars have a grab bar from the side of the car for the co rider to hang on with one hand,its not enough in a hard crash.at least a driver has two hands on the steering wheel (hopefully).if a hnr will help i guess its 4 less tires ill buy to get them for me and the co rider.

[Sheaco]

Rob, that was a wicked jump. It reminded me of watching the thunder boat races. Glad your OK

[pciscott]

I have allways played down the dangers of off-road racing to my family and friends, but the tragic loss of Eric Morales at Primm has opened many eyes and the number of calls this week with questions on HNR systems warrants the talk on boards like RDC to help people make informed decisions on what device best suits our sport for there safety needs. I have raced with the D-Cell and the only downfall is an occasional kinked catheder tube, for this reason I will be testing with the R3 for the Baja 1000 and will let you know how it goes. The Hans device requires your shoulder belts to be tight to function properly and in off-road racing we tend to run our shoulder belts loose. If any of you have questions on the fit of your Safety Solutions device we are there to help at SCORE, BITD, CORR and select SNORE, MORE, and MDR events.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

Thanks for your info and support, Scott!

[Chris_Wilson]

Walker Evans, and Ivan Stuart didnt wear any neck restraint !

I dont think I want to either........

Mike, you are joking right? Early competitors in the Indy 500 did not even wear seatbelts, thank goodness they are not your heros instead of Walker.

[Mark_Weyhrich]

I would like to give you all a real world example of why I belive in, and our entire team uses, the R3.

At the 2006 San Felipe 250, I was trying to chase down LR for the Class 1 victory. Approximately 1 mile from the finish, I went over going just under 120 mph (We know this because of the data collected by IriTrack).

The car went over in a corkscrew fashion (Think Joey Chitwood), so there was no speed dissipation, and dug in at the A-Pillar just above and in front of my head. The race of deceleration was unreal, but the belts did their job and stretched.

The impact was so severe, the steering wheel blew through my visor (This is why we switched away from M-Rated helmets) and I actually hit the steering wheel with my face, hard enough to split open the bridge of my nose!

I was wearing my R3 at the time of the incident, so my entire body moved as one unit. While I had some minor soreness, my neck was surprisingly spared from any major pain.

Not to sound dramatic, but I truly believe the R3 saved my life that day.

[Will_Higman]

Just a safety note about the D-Cell. They have heavy duty stainless steel D rings to use in place of the cables for certain applications. Many short neck people will need this. My Simpson rep races sprint cars and is very small. The cables were not in the correct location and she had to use the D rings. They mount slightly higher and forward of the cables. My son has them on his Simpson Vudo helmet as well. You can see them in the photo link.
http://patwilsongraphics.com/helmets_may/brooks_chrome_vudo/DSCF0258.JPG
As many have noted, fit is very important!

Great post I wondered why I couldn't get mine to fit properly. My cables loop down about even with the bottom edge of the helmet. Clearly your D ring set up is moved higher thus allowing the straps to work at the proper angle and length.

FIT IS EVERYTHING!

Thanks for the heads up on this possible option!

:)

[NIKAL]

I have a question regarding the Hutchens R3? Being that it is a carbon fiber brace that is strapped to your back. How does it feel when your strapped in the car? I mean we dont use a custom fitted seat that is molded to fit around the R3 brace. If your just using a Mastercraft or Beard seat does the back side of the R3 push into your back? Personally I like how the Hans works but like stated earlier the Hans depends on your shoulder harnesses and with a suspension seat your harnesses are not always tight when you compress in the seat. Also something I have noticed with the D-Cell is that its not easy to hook back up to your helmet after you have been out of the car changing a tire. Is the R3 easier? I know that we have unclipped the D-cell from the helmet so that we can change a tire and then its much easier to buckle back in with it unhooked. Then trying to rehook it can be a pain and we have left it unhooked from that point on. I know its not a good thing, but in the heat of the moment during the race its what happends. Thats why I like the concept of the Hans as it stays hooked up, but is only functioning when the shoulder harnesses are on.

[ppumper]

OK here we go. The d-cel is designed to be used with the cable system and NOT with the D-rings. because the fulcrum point on the d-cel is different than the R3 and Hybrid. the loose belt thing is not something I want to go into. The Hans doesn’t offer the side impact or multiple impact protection that the LFT models do. The Hans is a very good piece for other types of racing. If you loosen the shoulder straps on your d-cel, you shouldnt have to disconnect your helmet to change a tire.

[scombs]

I would like to give you all a real world example of why I belive in, and our entire team uses, the R3.

At the 2006 San Felipe 250, I was trying to chase down LR for the Class 1 victory. Approximately 1 mile from the finish, I went over going just under 120 mph (We know this because of the data collected by IriTrack).

The car went over in a corkscrew fashion (Think Joey Chitwood), so there was no speed dissipation, and dug in at the A-Pillar just above and in front of my head. The race of deceleration was unreal, but the belts did their job and stretched.

The impact was so severe, the steering wheel blew through my visor (This is why we switched away from M-Rated helmets) and I actually hit the steering wheel with my face, hard enough to split open the bridge of my nose!

I was wearing my R3 at the time of the incident, so my entire body moved as one unit. While I had some minor soreness, my neck was surprisingly spared from any major pain.

Not to sound dramatic, but I truly believe the R3 saved my life that day.

Mark thanks for the info you just helped us make up our mind r3 it is ordered them today with the use of the r3 are you guys still wearing the old neck donuts all the pics on the lft website dont show them being used just wondering if it is an option to wear a donut along with the r3

[M.Harvey1600]

I would like to give you all a real world example of why I belive in, and our entire team uses, the R3.

At the 2006 San Felipe 250, I was trying to chase down LR for the Class 1 victory. Approximately 1 mile from the finish, I went over going just under 120 mph (We know this because of the data collected by IriTrack).

The car went over in a corkscrew fashion (Think Joey Chitwood), so there was no speed dissipation, and dug in at the A-Pillar just above and in front of my head. The race of deceleration was unreal, but the belts did their job and stretched.

The impact was so severe, the steering wheel blew through my visor (This is why we switched away from M-Rated helmets) and I actually hit the steering wheel with my face, hard enough to split open the bridge of my nose!

I was wearing my R3 at the time of the incident, so my entire body moved as one unit. While I had some minor soreness, my neck was surprisingly spared from any major pain.

Not to sound dramatic, but I truly believe the R3 saved my life that day.

I agree completely with Mark on this one the R3 is the way to go. I too had a bad crash on June 24 last year where a chase truck (F-350) was driving down the race course (7 MILES) towing his broken class 10 car on a dove tail, back hoe trailer. about 16,000 lbs. i hit that thing in the dust 4th gear pinned in my little 1600 lb porter prc1600. I had a m rated helmet with out a neck device. my body went so far forward that i hit the steering wheel with my helmet folding the visor in toward my face cracking the fiberglass around the face opening. i was knocked unconscious while my race car kept driving forward. I was extremely lucky that my car saved me. i atually tore my right pectorial muscle and blew out my ACL, MCL, and medial meniscus in my right knee. i really wished i had purchased my R3 before this accident occured but i walked away and now will not go near a race car with out my R3 or my SA rated HJC carbon helmet!!!!!

[Pro Lite 77]

www.leatt-brace.com

This is the head and neck restraint of the future. I was against hnr's being madatory only because of the fact that they harness you into your belts. With the Leatt Brace, your belts lay over the device, making it just as easy to get out of the car, let's say, in a panic situation(fire). I wear one in my pro-lite and not only does it not limit your head movement, it actually is more comfortable than without the brace on. It takes the pressure from the belts and disperses it around your chest and back.

[ppumper]

are you using the tethers to anchor your helmet?

[CHASER]

Chris,

I'll bet Bob Gordon, and Mickey Thompson, didnt wear one either !

Mike your nuts!!! Who cares what they did or did not wear. You should. Set a good example for your kid.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

My understanding that the first "seat belts" were speed equipment, and not for safety.
A piece of rope was used to hold the driver in so he could stay on the gas!

[BobBower]

Chris,

I'll bet Bob Gordon, and Mickey Thompson, didnt wear one either !


Mike! For crying out loud! Old School does not mean you can ignore change. Your comments don't sound like a guy who has been racing as long as you have. Instead, they sound stupid. Period.

Get your Irish up at me if you wish. Some might consider me Old School as well, but I've worn my D-Cell since 2005.

This is not funny stuff.
BB

[J_Lothringer]

Walker Evans, and Ivan Stuart didnt wear any neck restraint !

I dont think I want to either........

Good attitude!!!!

[EMS702]

Mark,
No disrespect to you or your driving, but would you not agree that if SCORE were to mandates some type of restraint, wouldnt it make sense to only require its use in just Trophy Truck, and class One ? I just dont see the other class' attaining such speeds, one mile from the finish line, and trying to pass blindly at 120 mph for the win. Those are your words.

It is not only speed. Yes speed can be a factor. Its the forward motion of the body and the quick deceleration that causes injury. For example this weekend on Night Ranch Straitaway TT and Class 1 cars are taking these bumps smooth because of the travel they have. A class 12 or 16 or even a 10 car is on a flat area and a big whoop comes up he's doing maybe 30-45mph hits the whoop slams down into the next whoop causing him to slow to 5-20mmph. Or a fast deceleration causing his head to jerk forward or even sideways. I have been inside these cars, steering wheel and bars are sometimes closer than in TT or class 1 cars. Rapid deceleration can happen in any class car, truck or buggy. That is what the device is for. I can see a need in every class. Watch video of the small cars taking the same whoops as a TT. In a TT fast is smooth and they clear whoops that the smaller cars are endoing into. Just my point of view. I had a video example could not get it to load. sorry. Please be safe out there.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

Bob, please tell us about your d-cell experience. Comfort, manuverability, etc.

Thanks!

[raceanine]

I race class 9 and just started using a d-cell. I would not race without it. I did not feel any neck soreness after wearing it because it took all the side deflection out of my head and also took away the whiplash type jolts as well. I did a research paper in a college class on head and neck restraints and found out that it is not the speed but the angle of the impact, the abruptness of the impact, and a host of other factors that breaks your neck. That is why I started using it. The money spent is cheaper than the alternative.

[bajabird]

Ok, 10 pages into reading this thread..

I am going to pci to get set up.

I am taking the advice learned here, and getting it done before the 1000
Thank you all for your imput.

[BobBower]

Bob, please tell us about your d-cell experience. Comfort, manuverability, etc.

Thanks!
I never heard of it until Harold Nicks talked about it to me. Not a hard sell talk. More a talk between old friends. Then I had a talk with myself.

The first things that ran through my mind were very similar to the comments we see from Mike Doherty. Then the other voice between my ears spoke up. "The reason you did fine all those years without this thing is that it did not exist!" The more I thought about it the more reasons I came up with that made it mandatory to spend the $$. The money was a factor for me. I don't have a ton of it, and I'm cheap. Yet, it was the right thing to do.

Doug fitted it to me and showed me how to get it on and hook in and out. I did not like the feel from the very first time it was on. Then I sat in the Donahoe Super-Duty's right seat and tried to look over and see the drivers seat. Couldn't do it. I tried to look over my shoulder like you do when looking back at a turn to see who might be following. Couldn't do it. I tried to look down at my lap to see the buckle in my seat belt harness. Couldn't do it. By now I was grumbling.

First race comes, I wear the D-Cell. I learn how to see my driver's feet and hands. I learn how to look back at turns. I learn how to deal with the buckle in my seat belt harness. I learn that the damn D-Cell does nothing to hinder me in my job in the right seat.

OK... The race is over and off comes the D-Cell. Everything seems normal so I'm good to go. Then the 2nd and 3rd day after the race comes around. I'm all ready to take my big doses of Ibuprofen in anticipation of the sore neck and shoulders like I always do. But my neck never gets sore. My shoulders don't get sore. I ask myself... "Weren't you just in the Baja 1000?" "Shouldn't you feel something?! You know, like a few aches or pains?" Well... Nada. I feel fine.

Comfort? Oh Yeah. In the seat I don't know it's there.
Manuverability? Not the same, but good enough. We ran the BITD Terribles Town 250 start to finish. Did 4 tire changes in the desert. Changed a steering box too. I left my helmet on and latched the whole time. Never took it off. I think a fella can move around just fine after getting used to the device. Hell, if I can do it, most anyone can.

My experience is that I can feel it working almost all the time. The Stock Full Super-Duty is big. It's tall too. There are times when the paint shaker goes nuts in the cockpit and blurs your vision. I feel the D-Cell working. Working to my comfort and benefit.

So... Put my name on the long list of those who agree that a good H&N device makes sense.

Get into a race car now without it?... Couldn't do it.

BB

[PSWPete]

Just over a year ago I was co-driving in a class 1 car that unfortunately ended up crashing. The crash was bad enough that it wadded up 3 of the 4 corners of the car. Needless to say, we took a pretty good tumble across the desert. Fortunately enough, both the driver and my self were wearing a D-Cell. We both managed to climb from the car and walk away dazed but uninjured. I can honestly say that the device saved us from some serious trauma. After the crash, I could not stress enough to racers that I knew the importance of using a D-Cell or other hnr device. This is not a device that you wear to just protect your neck in case you crash. This is a device that through out the race helps to stabilize your head and neck in order to minimize fatigue and help your neck feel less sore in the following days. In my opinion it is well worth the money and the sanctioning bodies need to seriously consider making hnr mandatory for ALL classes. Add me to the list of those that will not get into a race car with out one.

Pete

[RBrown]

Well it looks like we are in the market for a HNR system (or 4). I appreciate all the comments from those who have used the different types of systems and how satisified you are with them.

[Bajated]

Yeah, I'm getting one as well. After I endoed in San Felipe a few years ago and walked away, I thought my neck was strong enough that I didn't need one. Foolish, huh?

I saw my sons from his Trophy Kart, and Eric Morley told me he's getting one, so I think it's time I did something to save my own life.

[DustJunkie]

The question has been asked and I may have missed the answer.......Does the D-cell eliminate the need for the neck roll?

["FACTORY"]

The question has been asked and I may have missed the answer.......Does the D-cell eliminate the need for the neck roll?

yes! it is better and more comfortable. Also if anyone is worried about the price of the Hans or D-Cell, a new neck brace that is going big in the motocross industry is the Leatt Brace. They are comfortable and effective. There is one for drivers! check them out! i beleive the sportsman model is about 300? still expensive to most but how much are you worth?

have a good day !

[Mark_Weyhrich]

It is not only speed. Yes speed can be a factor. Its the forward motion of the body and the quick deceleration that causes injury. For example this weekend on Night Ranch Straitaway TT and Class 1 cars are taking these bumps smooth because of the travel they have. A class 12 or 16 or even a 10 car is on a flat area and a big whoop comes up he's doing maybe 30-45mph hits the whoop slams down into the next whoop causing him to slow to 5-20mmph. Or a fast deceleration causing his head to jerk forward or even sideways. I have been inside these cars, steering wheel and bars are sometimes closer than in TT or class 1 cars. Rapid deceleration can happen in any class car, truck or buggy. That is what the device is for. I can see a need in every class. Watch video of the small cars taking the same whoops as a TT. In a TT fast is smooth and they clear whoops that the smaller cars are endoing into. Just my point of view. I had a video example could not get it to load. sorry. Please be safe out there.

I totally agree. If any of you have ever seen crash test videos you will understand. These are typically performed at speeds of 45 mph or less and are extremely violent. If you have ever endoed, you know that it is very much akin to hitting a wall at whatever speed you are going.

Mike Doherty -- Those were not my words. At no time did I suggest I was driving blindly at 120 mph. Have I, yes. Will I again, yes. However, I have been out there for 25 years and would never do so with thousands of people around.

Not that I need to justify myself to you or anyone else (I think my results speak for themselves), but we caught the edge of a booby trap while running in clean air.

Additionally, I never advocated SCORE mandating anything. I merely related my story for everyone in the hope that it would provide some valuable information by which all could make their own decisions. I thought that is why people wanted experienced racers on this board.

[racer951]

yes! it is better and more comfortable. Also if anyone is worried about the price of the Hans or D-Cell, a new neck brace that is going big in the motocross industry is the Leatt Brace. They are comfortable and effective. There is one for drivers! check them out! i beleive the sportsman model is about 300? still expensive to most but how much are you worth?

have a good day !

I called them yesterday and they are not yet available in the U.S. The lady on the phone did not have an expected delivery date either. I like the look and concept of the Leatt a lot more than the D-Cell so I'm planning on getting a D-Cell for the MORE race this weekend and, depending on how I like it, possibly selling and going to the Leatt later.

Also, Doug at Parker Pumper said that after the unfortunate events at Primm, people are ordering D-Cell's left and right. He is sold out right now but expects to get another shipment in this afternoon.

[Chris Tobin]

Has anyone heard of or tried the Isaac HNR?

Here is the link to their website...

http://www.isaacdirect.com/index.html

[scombs]

is the use of a neck collar required for the r3 is it still possible to wear one with the r3?

[ppumper]

is the use of a neck collar required for the r3 is it still possible to wear one with the r3?

No after talking to LFT He has tested using one and it did nothing to improve or hinder. I would think it would be uncomfortable. I want everybody to understand, DO your own research on these things, there are many to choose from some look awesome but really don't perform as well as you are made to believe they do. Don't go by what your cousins,brothers aunt said, make your own educated decision. keep one thing in mind if it doesn’t anchor to the helmet I would question it.

[9rocky]

Harold,

Is LFT good about delivery? Everyone is out of all types (R3, Hybrid, etc.). They are saying 2 weeks. Does that mean 8 weeks?

[scombs]

No after talking to LFT He has tested using one and it did nothing to improve or hinder. I would think it would be uncomfortable. I want everybody to understand, DO your own research on these things, there are many to choose from some look awesome but really don't perform as well as you are made to believe they do. Don't go by what your cousins,brothers aunt said, make your own educated decision. keep one thing in mind if it doesn’t anchor to the helmet I would question it.

thanks for the info.

[ppumper]

Harold,

Is LFT good about delivery? Everyone is out of all types (R3, Hybrid, etc.). They are saying 2 weeks. Does that mean 8 weeks?

I just receved some d-cel's today and starting wednesday will be getting R3's and decel's every day or so. I have some HYBRID's here

[ppumper]

One more thing. The d-cel is a very good piece and the R3 has better numbers and the HYBRID has the best all around numbers in this arena. Again I am not putting any of the other devices down. I am simply stating that in my opinion, these are the most practal I have found for this sport.

[DustJunkie]

One more thing. The d-cel is a very good piece and the R3 has better numbers and the HYBRID has the best all around numbers in this arena. Again I am not putting any of the other devices down. I am simply stating that in my opinion, these are the most practal I have found for this sport.


How late are you open today?

[ppumper]

6pm but call first 800-700-2350

[ppumper]

Question, would there be any interest in a seminar by ISP seats and safety solutions. Both Trevor and Chris have offered to come out here from North Carolina and put one on if there were enough interest.

[ScottP66CJ]

Question, would there be any interest in a seminar by ISP seats and safety solutions. Both Trevor and Chris have offered to come out here from North Carolina and put one on if there were enough interest.

YES!!!!

Can I have the first 4 spots! No kidding!

[TyBo1001]

Maybe a stop in Phoenix too? I think there are quite a few racers that would be interested.

[Kartman]

Maybe a stop in Phoenix too? I think there are quite a few racers that would be interested.

Very interested. Maybe at Racer

[pciscott]

We have D-cells in stock and more R3 systems will be in early next week. As with the Hans device the Leatt device requires your shoulder belts be tight as per instructions, this is not the case for most of us in off-road. We will be at the CORR race this weekend for anyone who needs help with fittment. I will be testing with the R3 next week and will let you know how it compares to my D-cell. Mark did you modify your seat or just run the velcro pad that comes with the R3? Did it take any getting used to? Thank you, Scott

PCI Race Radios 800-869-5636

[scombs]

A stop in phx would be good i know there are a lot of racers in the valley

[KGM Racing]

A stop in phx would be good i know there are a lot of racers in the valley

Would definately attend a phoenix stop

[King Dan]

Originally Posted by Old School 8
Walker Evans, and Ivan Stuart didnt wear any neck restraint !

I dont think I want to either........



good attitude. WTF- neather did dale earnheart

[bcampbell04]

i think some form of a d-cell or HANS will be mandatory. i know i'm investing in a d-cell as soon as i have the money.

[Mark_Weyhrich]

We have D-cells in stock and more R3 systems will be in early next week. As with the Hans device the Leatt device requires your shoulder belts be tight as per instructions, this is not the case for most of us in off-road. We will be at the CORR race this weekend for anyone who needs help with fittment. I will be testing with the R3 next week and will let you know how it compares to my D-cell. Mark did you modify your seat or just run the velcro pad that comes with the R3? Did it take any getting used to? Thank you, Scott

PCI Race Radios 800-869-5636

Scotty -- We do not use the velcro pad, as it was not available when we got ours a few years ago. However, we have no issues with the device staying put. You just need to make sure the "shoulders" on the device are under the belts when you tighten them.

[Andy McMillin]

Does anybody have any contact info for the head guy at Safety Solutions? The same guy who invented the d-cell unit and R3? I saw him at the Chula Vista races and need to get a hold of him through e-mail or by phone. Thanks!!

[NIKAL]

Does anybody have any contact info for the head guy at Safety Solutions? The same guy who invented the d-cell unit and R3? I saw him at the Chula Vista races and need to get a hold of him through e-mail or by phone. Thanks!!

I think the owners name is Trevor Ashlineor, or he's the guy who designed the D-Cell / R3 ? The real name of the company is LFT Technologies. There phone # is 1-800-731-4404.

http://www.lfttech.com/

[NIKAL]

Also here are so FAQ from Safty Solutions site regarding the R3. There are answers to some of the questions we have asked on here.

I use an aluminum racing seat. Will the use of the R3 require a custom-built seat, and does the seat need to be fitted for it? If a seat is not specially made for the R3, will it be uncomfortable?

The R3 does not require you to cut or modify your seat. Supplied is a molded back pad that inserts into the back of the seat. The pad has a center cut-out that the R3 restraint sits back into. Users, like John Force and Troy Caughlin, have chosen the R3 because it is a very comfortable restraint.


Helmet hardware attaching: how is this done? Do I send in my helmet or do it myself?

All of our restraints have complete kits that include helmet attachment hardware and instructions. If you have questions about your specific helmet, call us at 1-800-731-4404. We also offer Simpson helmets that are pre-drilled for your restraint. Or, if you do not want to mount the hardware yourself, we can do it for $35.00.


You mention the padding for my seat. As a driving instructor for many organizations, I'm concerned about the comfort of the R3 while I am in other cars. What can you tell me?

The R3 is currently in use by instructors, boat racers, off-road rally racers, late-models, and even desert racers, who all find it very comfortable. We now offer a “Portable Pad” that you can use in the back of the seat. It can be carried from car-to-car and easily positioned on the next seat.


Is the R3 good for Sprint Cars?

The R3 is a great fit for Sprint cars and any kind of dirt racing. The R3 straps to your body and does not rely on the seat belts to control head and neck forces. The new “Sprint” model is specifically designed for a 85 to 90 degree seat back angle. We have a number of sprint car drivers, desert racers, rally cars and boat racers using the R3. All have similar issues with rough track conditions.


I currently use a D-cell with the cables kit on the helmet. Does the R3 require D-rings or can it be connected to the existing cables?

The R3 would require the use of D-rings mounted per the included instructions. The D-cell and the Hutchens both use the shoulder of the occupant as the pivot point for the helmet tether. The R3 uses a higher helmet tether mount, which requires a more rearward mount on the helmet.


Are there plans to do a unit that can be used in a semi-reclined (30 degrees), such as Sports Racers & Formula cars?

The Formula Model is for reclined seats. It was designed for the Hybred III test dummy in an IRL car. We currently have 4 different models… Formula, A - set back head rest, B – Upright seat 68-75 degree seat back and a Sprint Model. We can tell you what model you will need according to the style seat you have


The backbone piece looks bulky. Is it comfortable?

The R3 comes with a molded Urethane Foam seat insert that has a cutout section that the R3 fits into. It makes the device practically disappear. We have had great feedback on the comfort of the device. As far as the adjustment to the seat, all you need to do is insert the molded foam pad, using Gaffers tape.


Does the installation of the D-ring kit involve drilling holes in the helmet? What does that do to the SNELL Rating?

Installing the helmet anchors does involve drilling holes in the helmet. The Snell Foundation, who certifies the helmets, has stated that: "As long as the drilling is done outside of the test zone, which our mounts are, it does not harm the helmet's certification."


One question: your brochure has a reference to: "...taking advantage of the 80% rule, just like our competitor." What does this mean?

The 80% Rule: SFI has given a break to the manufacturers by allowing the deletion of one frontal impact test when the product scores below 80% of the maximum allowable neck tension value. The maximum allowable neck tension for SFI 38.1 is 4000 N; 3200 is 80%. Therefore, the R3, the HANS, and the Hutchens II have all passed under 3200 N neck tension in a 70G test. As a reference, Dale Earnhardt's crash was estimated at 42G's and 38 mph change in velocity.


I need a little help in determining which version will work in my Hadman Top Fuel Dragster.

The R3 “B” model would be best for you. In an extreme case, where the driver is very reclined, a Formula Model may fit better. The back angle of the seat, measured just below the seat belt, holds onto the back of the seat.


I drive an AA/FA. It is a funny car chassis like John Force's--only mine has a 23T body on it rather than a Mustang funny car body. Which R3 model would I need?

You would use the R3 "B" Model.


Please advise the R3 and its application in a Legends Car.

As far as the application in a Legends car, it has been proven to work well in an upright seating position (like a Legends style seat). We have many customers wearing the R3 in Legends Cars.


Are the quick release tethers standard on the R3 or are they extra (like the HANS)?

The R3 comes with the quick releases, standard. This is a $90.00 savings, compared to the competition.


I am a SpecMiata racer, and I am shopping for an SFI-approved H&N device. This basically means "You vs. the HANS." With the HANS, I am concerned with being able to look from side-to-side. Is this an issue for your device?

You will have about the same amount of movement from side-to-side as the HANS. You must remember that you are wearing a restraint though, and it will restrict some movement. Well-placed mirrors are a great way to compensate.



Is the foam insert used whether I strap the R-3 to my body, or just when the option of attaching it to my seat is used? If yes, when I strap it to my body, may I ask how the insert is attached to the seat?

The foam insert is used in both situations, and it is easy to install. It just gets taped to the back of the seat, under the cover; or a Portable Pad is used instead.

[FTW MIKE]

hey whats up with wearing my leatt brace that i use for moto! Will it work with my helmet?

[CHASER]

No. The back of the moto leatt will not let you sit in a seat.

[FTW MIKE]

DUH that makes sense, bumped my head one to many times!

[BANNED4LIFE]

i have never worn a HNR, nor made my riders wear them, entirely due to the cost..............am i really that stupid?? the cost to my wife and 4 kids would be never ending........neither i nor my codrivers will ever race the #2 without one again.................i consider you guys my friends and i dont want my friends to die, think about it...........

[M_R_Fast]

Allright Pete thats good news..... Which device do you plan on using??

[BANNED4LIFE]

trying to figure that out............i would use it for the tt and for the pro2, i dont really get out and change tires so that is not an issue, is a catheter and the crotch straps an issue????? is the r3 an issue with the seat??? do you have to modify the seats for an r3????? r3 looks bulky, is it??? mark??? the d-cell looks to be the most popular , because its least expensive???

[CHASER]

I use the D cell and have been for a few years now. I have heard stories of the crotch strap pinching your piss tube but it has yet to happen to me. But, I do lay out the "path" of the tube and use duct tape to keep it in place. So maybe that's the trick. Plus you can get different thickness of tube at the hospital supply store. I know the tubes i use a real think. That might help.

[Kartman]

Anyone tried the Hybrid yet? Seems to be a newer evolution of the R3.

[TimG_AZ]

PETE: stop by the shop.

I have dcell, Tucker, (both of those do hardly nothing - they both reduce your head weight by 100 lbs or so, R3/Hans reduce it by 900 lbs) also have the R3 and Hans in stock.

Hans/R3 - no triming seat, look side to side, change tires, anti sub belt and cath are OK, etc. stop by and I will show you the stats on all these devices and you will see why dcell/Tucker dont do much of anything compared to R3/hans, they do cost more and if all someone can afford is dcell/tucker then at least its something. but like someone else said, dont race till you can afford the real one.

seats and seat belts make a huge difference too. people have got to start using racing seats and not recreational seats. belts with stern strap are a must.

[TimG_AZ]

would anyone be interested in a FREE safety class?
what kind of seat and why.
what kind of belts and why.
how to mount your seat and why
how to mount your belts and why
difference between the HNR devices
etc.
we would be happy to host one and bring in the expert for the class.

[schifanelli]

Any classes available on safety is a great idea and my team will attend. We have used the D Cell for three seasons now, although I doubt I have mine adjusted correctly, my comfort level has increased, with no pain after long races.

[Kartman]

would anyone be interested in a FREE safety class?
what kind of seat and why.
what kind of belts and why.
how to mount your seat and why
how to mount your belts and why
difference between the HNR devices
etc.
we would be happy to host one and bring in the expert for the class.

I would be there.

[Old School 8]

would anyone be interested in a FREE safety class?
what kind of seat and why.
what kind of belts and why.
difference between the HNR devices etc.
we would be happy to host one and bring in the expert for the class.


To everyone's surprise, I would

[RBrown]

We would be interesed in a class as well. We need to purchase something soon so the sooner the better!!!

[schifanelli]

To everyone's surprise, I would

Mike: you are welcome to borrow my D Cell and helmet for a test, it takes a minute, but you will get used to it!

[Old School 8]

Mike: you are welcome to borrow my D Cell and helmet for a test, it takes a minute, but you will get used to it!

Andy
Do I see an add in the RDC classified for your class 8 ?

Why are you selling it ?

[TimG_AZ]

I'll start putting one together regarding:
seats
belts
helmets
HNR
proper fitment, mounting and use of the above
1st aid kits contents and use
anything else you want to see in the class?

[schifanelli]

Andy
Do I see an add in the RDC classified for your class 8 ?

Why are you selling it ?

can't afford the new safety equipment! actually, the housing market is killing us, and i need to get out of debt for a year.

[14802]

I'll start putting one together regarding:
seats
belts
helmets
HNR
proper fitment, mounting and use of the above
1st aid kits contents and use
anything else you want to see in the class?
I will attend.
Fire suppression systems?

[hbennett]

It took a few days but I finally got access to the forum. I'm new here and not very experienced with off-road racing. I want to learn from you guys but I also want to help answer questions on your personal racing safety equipment. You can look at my into under the "Hello, my name is..." topic. I don't want to re-read all the previous pages so I will try to offer answers to some of the question that have been asked.

SFI certified devices with the performance numbers in reducing neck tension (lower is better) and their pricing.

HANS Device - 210 - $865
R3 - 260 - $995
Hybrid - 300 - $1,095
Hutchens II Pro - 600 - $700 something
Leatt-Brace - 617 - $400+

The HybridX is also certified but it is drag race specific, I believe. There is no other SFI certified devices. Not that they haven't been submitted. They do not or will not pass SFI.

The HANS Device is dependent on the race harness. It has to be proerly installed and used. I understand some racers, off-road and others, wear they shoulder straps a little loose. Not a good idea with any HNR or without.

The R3 and Hybrid are both pretty devices. If you use the padding that is included with them, you will typically need to take its thickness into account when setting up your seat. Maybe not. I have seen some racers use the pad, some don't. Its personal preference. I don't think I would use either without any padding as I have seen some racers try to do. Its been said these are independent of a harness. I question that statement. I can see how this might work in a minor incident but anything other than that, your head and chest could be smacked.

The Leatt-Brace (not the motorcycle version) is SFI certified but I don't think they are available yet. The last I checked, the low-end version was either $400 or $695 depending on which page of their website you are looking at. That pricing does not include any duties or shipping. Last I heard, Leatt was looking for a company in Taiwan to manufacture. Leatt is based in South Africa. There might be some recent corporate changes that have taken place. The SFI certified model is a bit different from the motorcycle version. The SFI version requires their smart (???) tether system to be used. They also recommend it be replaced every 3 years. Maybe not such a bargain.

I think I remember a couple of statement about not going fast enough or something like that. It's not how fast you go, it's how fast you stop. The SFI test sled is traveling at an approximate speed of 35-40mph. Not very fast.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[C Robinson]

I was told with the R3 you put a pad on your seat so you fit comfortably, my question is what if you do a driver change would the pad need to be moved?Also how hard would it be to take off if the 2nd driver does not have a R3?

[hbennett]

The pads that comes with the R3/Hybrid (I think they are different) are about .5-.75" thick. Driver changes with different size drivers could be an issue. It is just a pad with a cut out for the back plate to fit into. I have seen racers use both devices with just normal seat padding. Some could do it, some could not.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[TimG_AZ]

Fire suppression, good one. attending? heck your helping

[TyBo1001]

I would be interested in the class too. Maybe another topic could be fire suits/gloves/shoes/headsocks....

[cvc motorsports]

If you buy a D-cell, make sure you are fitted for it with your drivers suit on. I was fitted with my usual shorts and t-shirt on and when I put my thick drivers suit on it did not fit properly. Pain in the *** to adjust yourself if you are not experienced working with it. :mad: I have been too lazy to go get it fitted again by somebody that knows what they are doing. Have not wore it all year. Oh, it was purchased and fitted by a company that you think would know better. Won't name any names. Think its time I get off my butt and get it done!:D

[gawdodirt]

Please create a thread with "Old Skool 8s" comments. I'd like to see what was deleted.

I almost peed myself....

GD

[Uncle_Bob]

I picked up the D-Cel's for both Lloyd and I last Wednesday at PCI, got fitted there, tested Thursday with mine on and had it in my mind while testing. Come Saturday when we took the green flag, we both forgot we even had them on by RM 3 they were that comfortable.

If you have a $5.00 head, it doesn't mean you need to wear a $5.00 helmet and please don't race or pre-run without some type of HNR. Nobody will ever be in our truck again without the proper safety equipment.

[bajabum]

I think i'm going to get a hans for prerunning and baja fun.
I,m not racing at this point but i do at least 3k miles a year in my prerunner and would like to continue to do so.

[hbennett]

I think i'm going to get a hans for prerunning and baja fun.
I,m not racing at this point but i do at least 3k miles a year in my prerunner and would like to continue to do so.

bajabum, is there a dealer you like to deal with or I can direct you. If you have any questions, you can ask it here or email me at hbennett at hansdevice.com. Thanks.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[nimrod]

I would like something for prerunning, a d-cell doesn't seem to be a great option for pre-running. I also wear my belts a little loose, not a huge amount of gap, but a solid 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch. Would a Hans work with this arrangement?

I broke my neck in the past, my C-4 and C-5 have been fused with added hardware bolted to the C-3 and C-6. I was paralyzed for a short time. I'm willing to tighten up the belts, but would like to find something that I'm comfortable with and protects my neck. This is for prerunning, so stopping, getting out and goofing off is a big part of it.

Thank you so much for your input.

[hbennett]

Running the belts loose, with a HNR or not, is not a good solution. There is an unbeliveable amount of flex when the body is stressed. It's possible to come out from under the belts. The HANS Device will actually help spread out the pressure from the shoulder straps across the top of the shoulder. A lot of drivers I talk too admit that they are able to get their belts tighter using the device.

Proper belt mounting is the key. We recommend the shoulder straps be mounted no more than 3" apart measured at the inside edge of each strap (closer is better) and 1-2" below the top of the shoulders. With the shoulder straps mounted like this, the shoulder straps are coming around and cradling the device. With the straps mounted like this, you could conceivably run them just a little loose, not recommended but conceivable. The only difference in belt mounting from SFI or harness manufacturers is we say closer is better.

The HANS Device is a bit smaller and lighter than the others and easier to get off an on (or at least less time).

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[Goober]

What device does Nascar use?

[hbennett]

NASCAR uses the HANS Device and recently allowed the Hybrid (this past July). Why the Hybrid and not the R3 (R3 has better SFI numbers), I don't know.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[AZ45]

If you’re racing 3 or more races a year, you can afford a head and neck restraint. If you’re serious about safety, skip a race and use the $2k-$20k to upgrade your equipment.

We sell HANS and Dcel, there are arguments for both. If you look at the numbers only, HANS is the only choice if used as designed with tight seatbelts. Most cars have been built without the thought of a head and neck restraint, so modifications may be needed to seats, seat position, belts and belt positions.

Like I said, there are arguments for both, but all need to be set up properly.

If you loosen your belts to see over a rise, maybe you should change your seat position or what’s obstructing your view on the car. If you brace yourself into your seat with your left foot, you’re belts are loose and your seat is not doing its job and your chance of injury in a crash with or without a Dcel or HANS are high.

It’s not only the lack head and neck restraints that are a problem, the reality in off road racing is that it’s only one the safety problems. I’ll through together my short list and post it in the Shop section when I get a chance.

[nimrod]

I know this is stupid, but hey I'm a Nimrod....Can you use a Hans with an open face helmet?

Thanks

PS. I checked their website and could not come to a definitive answer.

[ppumper]

I think i'm going to get a hans for prerunning and baja fun.
I,m not racing at this point but i do at least 3k miles a year in my prerunner and would like to continue to do so.

and why a Hans???

[hbennett]

Some racers use the HANS Device with an open-face helmet. I don't recommend it. First, a full-face helmet provides more protection. Second, there may not be enough structure in an open-face helmet.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[deleted.]

belts with stern strap are a must.

Not necessarily, ask Ernie Irvan, as his throat was crushed in that Michigan accident 12-13 years ago because a sternum strap. The actual buckle I think does more harm than good, but the velcro strap like what you can on Mastercraft seatbelts is definately a must

[hbennett]

Most manufacturers have stopped building sets with sternum straps, as most sanctioning bodies have stopped allowing them. Some are still available. Most racers like sternum straps because they want them to cover up improper belt installation.

Sternum straps have kind of been relegated to the realm of the helmet support or neck collar/donut. Not really needed. The helmet support is a comfort device, not a safety device.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[ppumper]

For Pre-running I would have to say that the R3 would be the best device. I would opt for the Hybrid or Hybrid X for the ultimate in head control in any racing accident.

Since desert racers normally wear the shoulder belt a bit loose because of the bouncing around that is encountered and the lack of head control from headrests or head nets, we at Safety Solutions pride ourselves in providing head restraints that provide motion control in multiple directions. From the D-cel, which has side motion control from it’s front and rear mounts to the R3 and Hybrid models that utilize multiple load paths to direct and reduce head load to multiple areas of the body and car.

When designing head and neck restraints for dirt use, you must be careful to take into consideration the environment. Loose shoulder belts, suspension seats, little or no head rest, unlike in a F1 car or a current NASCAR stock car, and the use of 5 point nylon belts. All of these things point toward large amounts of upper torso and unrestricted front to back and side to side head movement in an accident. This is especially true when you consider that dirt cars, trucks and buggies rarely hit or tumble only one time and only in a frontal direction. Violent rolls and tumbles introduce a vast array of forces from multiple directions. These forces produce extreme movements of the upper torso and head and make it less and less likely that a single load path device that floats on your shoulders and relies on the shoulder belts to be in place (our competition) would still be functional after a 100 mph barrel roll across the desert. In a tight cockpit, such as an F1 car or current Stock car configuration, it would be much more likely to still be in place because of the restricted movement in these systems.

The D-cel harness, R3, Hybrid and Hybrid X models all attach to the occupant and in the case of the Hybrid and Hybrid X models also attaching to the seat belt buckle making them extremely secure. The D-cel and R3’s prove their effectiveness even in systems without shoulder belts like Karting. In years of experience in dirt racing, the strap harnesses and the combination strap / carbon fiber devices have shown their effectiveness in controlling occupant motion from the first flip to the last.

As Hubert Gramling (the engineer behind the current HANS device) stated in a recent ICMS lecture, The Hybrid and HANS produce equal results in the same tests. Given a number of tests, the variation of the HANS will overlap the Hybrid results and vice versa. This was said about our frontal performance in the SFI 38.1 testing. What has not been stated by our competitor, because of its well documented diminishing performance, is the 30 degree frontal numbers that are also required by the SFI 38.1 standard. The 30 degree frontal impacts have been proven to be the most deadly over the past 10 years in all forms of motorsport and especially in NASCAR competition. A recent study by John Melvin, of all crashes in NASCAR has also determined that the 30 degree right frontal impact is the most common frontal impact. I was a part of the Dale Earnhardt investigation while working for Autoliv North America . His fatal impact was in the 30 degree right frontal direction. For this reason I have designed restraints that not only excel in straight frontal impacts, but also work exceptionally well in the 30 degree frontal direction. Our Hybrid restraint actually gets better numbers in its 30 degree frontal SFI test than in the 0 degree Frontal test! No other SFI 38.1 certified device can claim this, we should know, Safety Solutions has 4 of the 6 that are certified. This is a remarkable feat and probably the reason that NASCAR has chosen it for approval.

With drivers like Ricky Johnson, Tim, Ed and Troy Herbst and Mark Porter, Jessy Jones and Gary & Mark Weyhrich already finding success in the R3 and Jeremy McGrath, Kyle Le Duc and Kevin Davis using Hybrids, it should be a clear choice in these types of vehicles. As Josh Baldwin stated about our competitor’s device, “it (HANS) is just not the right device for these vehicles.”

We are also currently working on seat and belt systems with some of the Pros of this type of racing, to make an even safer occupant safety system. These types of systems are designed to work with your environment and driving styles so drivers don’t have to relearn how to drive because we have instituted our rules on you. We believe that working with you and developing new products, by listening to your special needs, is a much better approach. We were there in the beginning of NASCAR’s safety revolution and have just recently changed over John Force' s Funny Cars with new ideas that were never considered just a few months ago. Now they are mandatory in every Pro Funny Car and Top Fuel Car in both NHRA and IHRA.

We would like to extend an invitation for any racer to call Safety Solutions or one of our dealers such as Parker Pumper / BSR West and PCI for further information.

Trevor Ashline
Restraint Engineer
Safety Solutions, Inc.

[JJ LJR]

I have read and followed this post for a week. I probably read it somewhere around page three, but my question is, I bought a D-Cell and would like to know if there is somewhere in So. Calif. that I could go to, and get it adjusted correctly to fit me. I'm in San Bernardino County and don't have a problem traveling alittle to get the best results.
Thanks in advance.

[ppumper]

Parker pumper/BSR West
3834 Wacker drive
mira loma, ca 91752
800-700-2350

give us a call, we know a little about them and are pretty good at fitting them.


Harold Nicks

[cvc motorsports]

I have read and followed this post for a week. I probably read it somewhere around page three, but my question is, I bought a D-Cell and would like to know if there is somewhere in So. Calif. that I could go to, and get it adjusted correctly to fit me. I'm in San Bernardino County and don't have a problem traveling alittle to get the best results.
Thanks in advance.

Make sure you take your drivers suit with you so you can put it on when fitted.

[patcsg]

I know this is stupid, but hey I'm a Nimrod....Can you use a Hans with an open face helmet?

Thanks

PS. I checked their website and could not come to a definitive answer.

Why in the world would you run an open faced helmet?

[TimG_AZ]

Not necessarily, ask Ernie Irvan, as his throat was crushed in that Michigan accident 12-13 years ago because a sternum strap. The actual buckle I think does more harm than good, but the velcro strap like what you can on Mastercraft seatbelts is definately a must

not sure what the application was in that exact incident but a sternum strap is way better than not. if the belts are not adjusted correctly I can see it possibly having a problem hitting the throat but again not if the belts are adjusted properly. more of a chance of breaking your sternum without it then hitting your throat with one. they are also much more comfortable to wear as well. The ones we use are the TeamTech belts with the velcro closure.

[BANNED4LIFE]

PETE: stop by the shop.

I have dcell, Tucker, (both of those do hardly nothing - they both reduce your head weight by 100 lbs or so, R3/Hans reduce it by 900 lbs) also have the R3 and Hans in stock.

Hans/R3 - no triming seat, look side to side, change tires, anti sub belt and cath are OK, etc. stop by and I will show you the stats on all these devices and you will see why dcell/Tucker dont do much of anything compared to R3/hans, they do cost more and if all someone can afford is dcell/tucker then at least its something. but like someone else said, dont race till you can afford the real one.

seats and seat belts make a huge difference too. people have got to start using racing seats and not recreational seats. belts with stern strap are a must.

no offence tim but i stopped by the shop and you did not have the d-cell, r3, or hans in stock, only the tucker............call when you do

[hbennett]

I can't speak to the availability of the Safety Solutions products but the HANS Device is in stock. Jeff at UPR (he posted a little earlier in this thread) can help you.

Howard Bennett
HANS Performance

[JJ LJR]

Make sure you take your drivers suit with you so you can put it on when fitted.

Thank you. I called ppumper yesterday and they said I don't need to take my suit, but I will take it ayways.
Thanks again for the info.

[cvc motorsports]

Thank you. I called ppumper yesterday and they said I don't need to take my suit, but I will take it ayways.
Thanks again for the info.

Well, I was not going to mention any names but seeing how they specifically said you don't have to take your suit. That is where I had my D-cell fitted without my suit and when I put my suit on it did not fit properly!! I guess if you have a thin single layer suit it might not matter, but a quality suit is usually thicker. I may be the only one in the world that this applies to, but nonetheless my D-cell does not fit!!!!!

[nimrod]

Why in the world would you run an open faced helmet?


For prerunning....We stop a lot to check things out and just plain goof off. I would like to be protected but still have an open face so I can yell stupid things at people when I pull up.:p

Right now I wear a John Deere baseball hat backwards.....I'm sure an open face helmet with an
R3 or leatt brace would be a huge improvement.

[scary fast hummer]

Some of us run open faced helmets because our racers have windscreens. I'm tempted to hook up a fighter pilot type mask to run fresh air into for when the sand starts blowing hard though. Goggles are fine but a bandana doesn't really cut it for fresh air.

[ppumper]

Well, I was not going to mention any names but seeing how they specifically said you don't have to take your suit. That is where I had my D-cell fitted without my suit and when I put my suit on it did not fit properly!! I guess if you have a thin single layer suit it might not matter, but a quality suit is usually thicker. I may be the only one in the world that this applies to, but nonetheless my D-cell does not fit!!!!!

sometimes we forget to ask what what suit you use. our bad.

[TimG_AZ]

sorry Pete, they are on the way, will call you when they arrive.

[Tuf Toy]

Sweet Devil, just received my HJC helmet and race suit , and after reading this thread am in deep contemplation over the purchase of the R-3 . Right now I'm just a fill in co pilot in the Marley racing Truggy , but if the the wife, time and the job and the team permits I would like to race 4 or 5 races a year. It's tough traveling from the East Coast (New England) to desert race in SCORE and SNORE but the Wife has been really good with "man passes" . Making the R-3's available by rent to own on a per race basis would really make financing all this full a little easier, (especially when my right seat position is just a starter one for now) are these in stock and can they be set up by individuals properly ? We'll be racing in the SNORE South Point 250 on the 28th so my time is short, and I know your shop cant be there because of another race that same weekend.
Thanks in advance
The Boston Boys ;-)

[CaptinCrash]

i've have a few questions how far down your back does the Hutchens II go down ypur back and how does it feel agaisnt the seat compared to a d-cell

[CaptinCrash]

why were on the saftey subject have you guys seen this its pretty intresting
http://www.hatsoffusa.com/index.htm

[King Dan]

why were on the saftey subject have you guys seen this its pretty intresting
http://www.hatsoffusa.com/index.htm

that looks like it would take your nose off too

[retroblazer]

Some of us run open faced helmets because our racers have windscreens. I'm tempted to hook up a fighter pilot type mask to run fresh air into for when the sand starts blowing hard though. Goggles are fine but a bandana doesn't really cut it for fresh air.

Take it from someone who got Richard Petty out of his open face helmet and a fighter pilot mask. A good large port, full face helmet, with air, is the way to go. You have the option of running with the shield up in clear sections; glasses or goggles should still be worn if the shield is going to be open. The advantage in running a closed helmet shield, in an enclosed car, is that you can control the direct feed of air to the driver. By isolating the air intake of the driver, one can easily avoid the hot and potentially carbon monoxide ladden air inside the car by getting air from outside of the driver's compartment. Running with the shield down lowers the noise level and improves intercom and radio performance as well as being safer in a fire or a crash.

[Tuf Toy]

I'm wondering (from a right seat perspective) between the R-3 and the Leatt Brace which will allow the most freedom of movement both in and out of the race truck ? The time spent changing a tire can mean winning or losing a race. I would hate to find myself removing safety equipment to speed repair, then in order to save time improperly refit. Time is pretty much everything in this sport, so the quicker and easier it is to properly fit and secure the devices and the amount of work that can be done without removing them would seem paramount.
Trying to follow the old MG addage "Safety Fast"

[ppumper]

I'm wondering (from a right seat perspective) between the R-3 and the Leatt Brace which will allow the most freedom of movement both in and out of the race truck ? The time spent changing a tire can mean winning or losing a race. I would hate to find myself removing safety equipment to speed repair, then in order to save time improperly refit. Time is pretty much everything in this sport, so the quicker and easier it is to properly fit and secure the devices and the amount of work that can be done without removing them would seem paramount.
Trying to follow the old MG addage "Safety Fast"

simply the R3 works

[Tuf Toy]

Oh , I didn't realize the Moto-R Leatt Brace didn't "work"

[BajaFand]

simply the R3 works

What about the same scenario, the R3 vs a D-cell?

[Kartman]

As Hubert Gramling (the engineer behind the current HANS device) stated in a recent ICMS lecture, The Hybrid and HANS produce equal results in the same tests. Given a number of tests, the variation of the HANS will overlap the Hybrid results and vice versa. This was said about our frontal performance in the SFI 38.1 testing. What has not been stated by our competitor, because of its well documented diminishing performance, is the 30 degree frontal numbers that are also required by the SFI 38.1 standard. The 30 degree frontal impacts have been proven to be the most deadly over the past 10 years in all forms of motorsport and especially in NASCAR competition. A recent study by John Melvin, of all crashes in NASCAR has also determined that the 30 degree right frontal impact is the most common frontal impact. I was a part of the Dale Earnhardt investigation while working for Autoliv North America . His fatal impact was in the 30 degree right frontal direction. For this reason I have designed restraints that not only excel in straight frontal impacts, but also work exceptionally well in the 30 degree frontal direction. Our Hybrid restraint actually gets better numbers in its 30 degree frontal SFI test than in the 0 degree Frontal test! No other SFI 38.1 certified device can claim this, we should know, Safety Solutions has 4 of the 6 that are certified. This is a remarkable feat and probably the reason that NASCAR has chosen it for approval. .

Any idea how the D Cel performs in the 30 degree tests?

[BajaDale]

I have allways played down the dangers of off-road racing to my family and friends, but the tragic loss of Eric Morales at Primm has opened many eyes and the number of calls this week with questions on HNR systems warrants the talk on boards like RDC to help people make informed decisions on what device best suits our sport for there safety needs. I have raced with the D-Cell and the only downfall is an occasional kinked catheder tube, for this reason I will be testing with the R3 for the Baja 1000 and will let you know how it goes. The Hans device requires your shoulder belts to be tight to function properly and in off-road racing we tend to run our shoulder belts loose. If any of you have questions on the fit of your Safety Solutions device we are there to help at SCORE, BITD, CORR and select SNORE, MORE, and MDR events.

Hey Scott, I see you mentioned that someone would be at the MDR races to help us set up our d-cells. I am from Canada and my driver and I just bought some d-cells from you guys but we won't be hitting a race until the Nov. MDR race, is there a good way to set these up ourselves so we can do our truck testing with our d-cells on up here in Canada? Any help would be greatfull!

Thanks Dale Nyeste.

[AZ45]

Any idea how the D Cel performs in the 30 degree tests?

I don't think any part of the certification is based on anything but the head-on test.
I think they do a test for the 30 degree, but since I don't beleive there is a spec, the information is not relased in a way that would imply one system being better than another. I'm pretty sure SFI as many others(including me) think that side restraint should be done with seats or vehicle design means...but some reatraints may work better than others for side impact based on their design.

[BANNED4LIFE]

i went with the r3 and used it for the first time saturday in the trophy lite challenge, when the flag dropped i never knew it was there, it will take some practice getting it on and off but i feel safer and thats the main issue

[nimrod]

For the original question about co-drivers who have to get out and change tires etc. Someone earlier in the thread recommended the R-3 for racing activities like this.

[Whitewater]

I'm poor and co-ride only one race a year if I am lucky but that one race and the safety of my neck is important enough that I will finance one of these damd things if I have to.

[nimrod]

I have broken my neck and laid in the Loma Linda trauma center wondering if I was gonna regain full use of my arms....
Weird, the legs worked but the arms didn't
They drilled Bolts into my head and attached a sling to the bolts with weights on the other end (traction, trying to set my neck correctly) In case your wondering, bone does not absorb deadening liquid from a shot. They guy used two ratchets with BIG self tapping bolts. Every time he cranked on the ratchets it was excruciating. A nurse shot painkiller into me as he wrenched on me. Yeah, when he was done I looked just like Frakenstein, they took a picture of me and there was blood all over my pillow.

Finally when the traction didn't work I under went 12 hours of surgery to rebuild my neck. (luckily, while I was under they took out the traction bolts) It took over a year to regain the full strength of my arms..........On top of this I had bruised my heart and had lots of deep cuts all over my body.


It would have been much easier without the broken neck.....YOU CAN AFFORD THE D-CELL OR YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO RACE!

If your on a bike you are crazy to pass up on a Leatt Brace.....

[ppumper]

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wstephens]

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What He Said!

[sweetdevil]

Sweet Devil, just received my HJC helmet and race suit , and after reading this thread am in deep contemplation over the purchase of the R-3 . Right now I'm just a fill in co pilot in the Marley racing Truggy , but if the the wife, time and the job and the team permits I would like to race 4 or 5 races a year. It's tough traveling from the East Coast (New England) to desert race in SCORE and SNORE but the Wife has been really good with "man passes" . Making the R-3's available by rent to own on a per race basis would really make financing all this full a little easier, (especially when my right seat position is just a starter one for now) are these in stock and can they be set up by individuals properly ? We'll be racing in the SNORE South Point 250 on the 28th so my time is short, and I know your shop cant be there because of another race that same weekend.
Thanks in advance
The Boston Boys ;-)

In stock = no. More coming = yes. More orders coming every day = yes.

We can probably pull it off for this weekend, but call Jimmy tomorrow to confirm what orders he has pending.

[sweetdevil]

Hey Scott, I see you mentioned that someone would be at the MDR races to help us set up our d-cells. I am from Canada and my driver and I just bought some d-cells from you guys but we won't be hitting a race until the Nov. MDR race, is there a good way to set these up ourselves so we can do our truck testing with our d-cells on up here in Canada? Any help would be greatfull!

Thanks Dale Nyeste.

PCI won't be at the MDR race in November, we will be heading for Baja or may try to squeeze in the SNORE race. But with 3 in one weekend, the MDR race is near impossible.

The D Cell's come with some very detailed instructions. Call us if you have questions, or if you can come by the shop while you're in So Cal, that will work too! Without traffic, we're only 1 1/2 hours away.

[Cheater]

I have broken my neck and laid in the Loma Linda trauma center wondering if I was gonna regain full use of my arms....
Weird, the legs worked but the arms didn't
They drilled Bolts into my head and attached a sling to the bolts with weights on the other end (traction, trying to set my neck correctly) In case your wondering, bone does not absorb deadening liquid from a shot. They guy used two ratchets with BIG self tapping bolts. Every time he cranked on the ratchets it was excruciating. A nurse shot painkiller into me as he wrenched on me. Yeah, when he was done I looked just like Frakenstein, they took a picture of me and there was blood all over my pillow.

Finally when the traction didn't work I under went 12 hours of surgery to rebuild my neck. (luckily, while I was under they took out the traction bolts) It took over a year to regain the full strength of my arms..........On top of this I had bruised my heart and had lots of deep cuts all over my body.


It would have been much easier without the broken neck.....YOU CAN AFFORD THE D-CELL OR YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO RACE!

If your on a bike you are crazy to pass up on a Leatt Brace.....

After that nimrod you sold me on it. I ordered the R3 like pistol

[AZ1000]

After that nimrod you sold me on it. I ordered the R3 like pistol

Me too, but I've got to go with the D-cel, (thanks Sweetdevil, the wife is thrilled you'll be at the Powder Puff), being a bigger person, it looks like the R3 will push me too far forward in the seat. Any big guys have an opinion?

[ppumper]

I think I qualify as a BIG guy. I don't think it makes any difference. If you can afford a R3 get it.

[AZ1000]

I think I qualify as a BIG guy. I don't think it makes any difference. If you can afford a R3 get it.

It's not the money, it's the space. It looks as though it'll push you forwqard in the seat some, will it?

[BANNED4LIFE]

It's not the money, it's the space. It looks as though it'll push you forwqard in the seat some, will it?

if you use the special pad i would think 3/4 of an inch, less if you dont use the pad................imo

[AZ1000]

if you use the special pad i would think 3/4 of an inch, less if you dont use the pad................imo

I know this was your first try with one, do you think you'll need a pad?

[BANNED4LIFE]

i think it matters what seat you use, hard seat yes, soft seat probably no

[TyBo1001]

If you watch the latest trophy lite video, you can see Pete wearing his. As he is getting into the truck you get a profile of how thick it is. It isn't as thick as I thought it would be. That was a concern of mine as well.

[JJ LJR]

I think I qualify as a BIG guy. I don't think it makes any difference. If you can afford a R3 get it.

Hey ppumper, I was in there yesterday and I had a brand new D-cell. Your guy's at the desk were really helpful and great salesman. They talked me into a R3 so I bought one. They also promised that I would be able to have it by Thursday, is that really possible. I'm racing this weekend at the Lucerne 250 "MDR". If so and you know anyone who needs a brand new D-cell, never been worn, let me know. "size Med." Hopefully I will see you Thursday.

[pciscott]

I like the R3 over the D-Cell. I raced the TrophyLite race as well and did not feel anything touching the seat, I did not even notice it once the green flag dropped. The R3 is a good choice over the D-Cell for a few reasons in my opinion. #1 Once it is adjusted for your car it is more user friendly as it does not need constant attention on adjustments to keep it tight as with the D-cell. #2 The R3 does not go around your crotch playing havoc with the jewels or kinking your catheter kit! #3 The R3 is SFI rated and has higher safety rating. No matter what device you choose or who you are going to order it from the sooner the better as the demand is much higher than the supply at this time. Good luck and race safe!

P.S. PCI is where I buy all my gear:) 800-869-5636

[gbaker]

Any idea how the D Cel performs in the 30 degree tests?

http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/TestGraphs/Chart1.GIF

[ATRacing]

Has anyone actually used the Leatt's brace, either for bike or the new car version? Many seem to be addressing it as the answer for the future, but I havent heard anyone personal experience...unless I missed it in the past 21 pages...

Thanks
Andrea Tomba

[OldStroppeTeam]

Has anyone actually used the Leatt's brace, either for bike or the new car version? Many seem to be addressing it as the answer for the future, but I havent heard anyone personal experience...unless I missed it in the past 21 pages...

Thanks
Andrea Tomba

Check with Chris Blais. I believe he has some very good things to say about the Leatt brace.

[racer951]

Check out this thread for info on the motorcycle version of the Leatt Brace: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28003

As for the 4-wheel version, it doesn't sound like many (or any) have gotten their hands on them yet in the U.S.

[AZ45]

Has anyone actually used the Leatt's brace, either for bike or the new car version? Many seem to be addressing it as the answer for the future, but I havent heard anyone personal experience...unless I missed it in the past 21 pages...

Thanks
Andrea Tomba

The Leatte needs tethers for it to work in a car, or for it to be considered SFI testing. What a DCel, HANS and other devices are primarily trying to do is keep your head from moving after the vehicle stops. What the Leatt seems to be designed to do best is limit your head movement that happens on impact.

[BajaDale]

PCI won't be at the MDR race in November, we will be heading for Baja or may try to squeeze in the SNORE race. But with 3 in one weekend, the MDR race is near impossible.

The D Cell's come with some very detailed instructions. Call us if you have questions, or if you can come by the shop while you're in So Cal, that will work too! Without traffic, we're only 1 1/2 hours away.


Thank you very much for the reply! I will probably give you a call if I have any questions.

The one question I did have for all the racers out there: Does anyone have some pictures of there d-cell helmet teathers on the parker pumper side of the helmet? it looks like it mounts on a bit of an angle due to the parker pumper inlet. my helmet is a Simpson Voyager.

Thanks Dale Nyeste.

[BajaDale]

Someone's gotta have a picture of their Simpson Helmet with the d-cell teathers on it? PLEASE!!

Thanks!

[BajaDale]

Bump?

[nimrod]

The Leatte needs tethers for it to work in a car, or for it to be considered SFI testing. What a DCel, HANS and other devices are primarily trying to do is keep your head from moving after the vehicle stops. What the Leatt seems to be designed to do best is limit your head movement that happens on impact.


It sounds like the tether system for the Leatt is pretty simple. The Leatt website states that it attaches to the chin strap and requires no drilling or special attachment points.

[AZ45]

It sounds like the tether system for the Leatt is pretty simple. The Leatt website states that it attaches to the chin strap and requires no drilling or special attachment points.

Not that it wouldn't work, but what would the point be when you could buy on of the proven systems that are purpose built for auto racing?

Also, if the systems had teathers you wouldn't need the rest of it because your head movemnet in a car crash is usually from the unrestrained velocity of your head, and not typically from physical impact forces.

Good thread, lots of valuable Q&A.

[ATRacing]

Thanks for every bodies input and replies.
I looked at the Leatt's website too, and have to agree with Flying monkey. It looks like one of the benefits to me that the helmet doesn't have to be specifically prepared, and I like the way it guides the seat belts too.
Indeed, there seems to be various good experiences on the bike ones, and we will have to wait till someone gets there hands on the car version to get a tested impression.
And from what I see, it is specifically designed for car racing, as are the others.

Thanks again
Andrea Tomba

[Kbach66]

The Leatte needs tethers for it to work in a car, or for it to be considered SFI testing. What a DCel, HANS and other devices are primarily trying to do is keep your head from moving after the vehicle stops. What the Leatt seems to be designed to do best is limit your head movement that happens on impact.

From my talks with the Leatt guys, I was under the impression that the tethers are not needed to meet SFI certification.



Not that it wouldn't work, but what would the point be when you could buy on of the proven systems that are purpose built for auto racing?



While it's true that it's not proven in a large scale, the Leatt WAS designed for auto racing.
Maybe you're getting the bike and the car brace confused?

I friend of mine wore the car version in a 9 car at the Lucerne race a few weeks ago and was extremely happy and impressed with it's performance (not crash protection, but general comfort). He said that he was much less beat up due to the fact that the brace spreads the loads of the shoulder pads through the brace to a larger surface area of the body.

[nimrod]

The leatt R or car version is attractive to me for pre-running. I can wear an open face helmet. It is not too restrictive and is easily removed. I know some guys who are using the bike version and they seem to like it. They were a little bit limited in how high they could raise their arms, ( they said that they felt like Frankenstein putting on their goggles) but overall were very satisfied. If I can buy something that is affordable AND easy to get in and out of that works, I'm stoked. I am very grateful for all the info on this thread and the debate has been very helpful. Thank you.

[AZ45]

Maybe I am confused, they say it's SFI certified on their website. It's a bunch differant than the bike version, I think I saw it a year or so ago at the PRI show.
It's odd that they call it the Moto-R and it's for cars.

Either way, I think i'm going to buy a bike version for myself.

[MNotary]

Dan Jr Van den H and Hinz use Leatt. Hintz has a good in car of his being used in a roll over.

Teamtech is another to check out.

[BajaDale]

The one question I did have for all the racers out there: Does anyone have some pictures of there d-cell helmet teathers on the parker pumper side of the helmet? it looks like it mounts on a bit of an angle due to the parker pumper inlet. my helmet is a Simpson Voyager.

Thanks Dale Nyeste.[/QUOTE]

Wow! out of all the desert racers out there I can't believe nobody runs a Simpson Voyager helmet with a d-cell.... ??

[Robin Hood]

I have a Simpson Voyager, installed by BSR with the D-Cell. Really like it and it works great with the Simpson. We adjusted it ourselves the first time and it worked good (I think the instructions were translated from another language). I had it adjusted by BSR and it felt loose but worked even better.

However, I have not crash tested it yet.

If you really need photos, send your email.

Rowbin Hood

[BajaDale]

Thanks! If you could snap a few shot of the air inlet side that would be very appriciated!

bajadale@telus.net

Thanks again!

[BrianG]

Will there be anyone selling device's at the upcoming off-road expo?

Thanks

[IvanDan]

I never heard of it until Harold Nicks talked about it to me. Not a hard sell talk. More a talk between old friends. Then I had a talk with myself.

The first things that ran through my mind were very similar to the comments we see from Mike Doherty. Then the other voice between my ears spoke up. "The reason you did fine all those years without this thing is that it did not exist!" The more I thought about it the more reasons I came up with that made it mandatory to spend the $$. The money was a factor for me. I don't have a ton of it, and I'm cheap. Yet, it was the right thing to do.

Doug fitted it to me and showed me how to get it on and hook in and out. I did not like the feel from the very first time it was on. Then I sat in the Donahoe Super-Duty's right seat and tried to look over and see the drivers seat. Couldn't do it. I tried to look over my shoulder like you do when looking back at a turn to see who might be following. Couldn't do it. I tried to look down at my lap to see the buckle in my seat belt harness. Couldn't do it. By now I was grumbling.

First race comes, I wear the D-Cell. I learn how to see my driver's feet and hands. I learn how to look back at turns. I learn how to deal with the buckle in my seat belt harness. I learn that the damn D-Cell does nothing to hinder me in my job in the right seat.

OK... The race is over and off comes the D-Cell. Everything seems normal so I'm good to go. Then the 2nd and 3rd day after the race comes around. I'm all ready to take my big doses of Ibuprofen in anticipation of the sore neck and shoulders like I always do. But my neck never gets sore. My shoulders don't get sore. I ask myself... "Weren't you just in the Baja 1000?" "Shouldn't you feel something?! You know, like a few aches or pains?" Well... Nada. I feel fine.
Comfort? Oh Yeah. In the seat I don't know it's there.
Manuverability? Not the same, but good enough. We ran the BITD Terribles Town 250 start to finish. Did 4 tire changes in the desert. Changed a steering box too. I left my helmet on and latched the whole time. Never took it off. I think a fella can move around just fine after getting used to the device. Hell, if I can do it, most anyone can.

My experience is that I can feel it working almost all the time. The Stock Full Super-Duty is big. It's tall too. There are times when the paint shaker goes nuts in the cockpit and blurs your vision. I feel the D-Cell working. Working to my comfort and benefit.

So... Put my name on the long list of those who agree that a good H&N device makes sense.

Get into a race car now without it?... Couldn't do it.

BB

As some of you may know I co-drive with Craig Turner in a class 7 truck. My first race riding with Craig was the 2004 Primm 300. We all know that race is super rough and a neck/back killer in a class 7 truck. Then I rode the first 516 miles of the Baja 1000 that year as well. Both of these races I didn't wear a HNR and I was sore for 3-5 days afterwards. We then got the D-Cel's set up for the 2005 season and I had the same response as BB above. I wasn't 1/10th as sore as I was without it. After hearing about some of your crashes and success stories I wouldn't be caught riding in any race car without it.

Also, thanks again to Doug at Parker Pumper for helping us get the d-cel's adjusted properly.

[sweetdevil]

Will there be anyone selling device's at the upcoming off-road expo?

Thanks

PCI will have D Cell's and the R3's at the Off Road Expo. We are in hall 4, Booth 4201.

[J Caster]

Thanks to PCI I got my D-cell yesterday at Corr. Got to try it today testing down in Plaster City and man I wish I had one of these a long time ago! It is so nice.

[AZ1000]

Thanks to PCI I got my D-cell yesterday at Corr. Got to try it today testing down in Plaster City and man I wish I had one of these a long time ago! It is so nice.

Go ahead and rub the test in Josh, some of us had to just watch and wish, lol.

I too have to give a shout out to Jimmy from PCI, he is making sure my wife has her R3 all ready to go for the Powder Puff next week. Thanks Rhiannon, for your help, and good luck at the PP too.

[SPROCKET]

What system is being used in this picture?
thanks

[Kartman]

Looks like the D Cel

[J.COLEMAN]

Me too, but I've got to go with the D-cel, (thanks Sweetdevil, the wife is thrilled you'll be at the Powder Puff), being a bigger person, it looks like the R3 will push me too far forward in the seat. Any big guys have an opinion?


My driver Mark Hutchins just got an R3 for the SNORE race this last weekend - He is a really big guy... Didn't notice it at all!
If you need numbers he is about 6'-4" around 250 ... He fit just fine in our Kreger 10 car with Mastercraft seats and says he didn't notice it at all. Before that we had dcells.

[Justin]

Thanks! If you could snap a few shot of the air inlet side that would be very appriciated!

bajadale@telus.net

Thanks again!

Simpson Voyager

[Desert Empire Racing]

I use the Teamtech Tucker. Since it does not have a “Crotch Strap” I did something a little creative. To keep the tucker from riding up I had a local upholstery shop triple stitch the built in Kidney belt directly to my diving suit. It sounds a little rigged but I never forget to put on my tucker and it never rides up on my. After I did this I noticed about 5 others who did the same thing. To me it’s been the best so far and I don’t use my Hans anymore because the bulk.

[Tuf Toy]

"local upholstery shop triple stitch the built in Kidney belt directly to my diving suit"
That sounds like a great idea , I'd like to get that done. Thought I would be spitting blood after the SNORE 250 ;-) any one ever install a device to help keep feet planted in the right seat? (like bicycle clips).

[BajaDale]

Simpson Voyager
Thank you very much! I did my short course helmet already, do'in my Simpson this weekend!

[J. Avila]

I just got my d-cell today from race ready in chula vista, they set up the hardware on my helment and I'm ready to go, I tryed it today and it feel comfortable, I'll let you know how it feels in the race car after the 1000.

Juan Avila
#1003 B1k 2007

[Old School 8]

Mike! For crying out loud! Old School does not mean you can ignore change. Your comments don't sound like a guy who has been racing as long as you have. Instead, they sound stupid. Period. This is not funny stuff.
BB



So I'm standing at a buddy's booth at the Expo over the weekend, and who walk's by ? Ivan Stuart. We both say hello, and then enjoy a little small talk. I then ask Ivan, "say Ivan, If you were racing today, would you wear some type of neck restraint" ? I told him that there had been a big discussion on the internet about it, right after the un-timely death of the class 1 racer at Primm.

He said he had never worn one, and didnt think he would wear one today. I did point out that the main body of the discussion, was about SCORE "REQUIRING" the use of one in the future. He said, (and pointing to a class one car in the diplay next to us) Off Road racing is Very Dangerous. Very Dangerous. But, he did said, if an Off Road racer was comfortable wearing one, then that person should wear one. He said if HE wasnt comfortable wearing one, that he didnt think the promoter should require him to use it.

I think a few people here got on my case about my comments that I didnt think that in the future, the promoter should "REQUIRE" a competitor to use a neck brace. I did not say I would or would not use one, the next time I was in a race car, but I am smart enough to say (like Ivan) that I if I was racing, that I might try one out.

By the way, I always wanted to ask Ivan if he ever reads any public forums about Off Road Racing, on the internet. He rolled his eye's and said "heck no !" He said he doesnt have enough time in a day to do what he has to, and wonder where all those people that do spend their time on it, find the time to do so !

[450grl]

I met him at Parker - really nice guy!!!!

[AZ45]

OPINION UPDATE FROM UPR-

If you read my posts, none of them have really referred to the R3 because we had never had any experience with it; if we don’t have experience with a product we won’t sell it.

My opinion has been that the Dcel works well if it’s adjusted properly in a suspension seat, and the HANS is the way to go in a shell style(Sparco and others).

Last weekend I had some firsthand experience with R3 and think it’s the only way to go for suspension seats if it’s within your means.

It’s design keeps it adjusted properly, it’s easy to put on and it’s far more comfortable than you would expect by looking at the design. Unlike the HANS, the R3 is not completely dependent on the seatbelt harnesses so if they come slightly loose as they do, it seems like the R3 would still work and be comfortable.

I know Harold(PPumper) has said all of this about the R3, I’m just saying I’m a now believer too.

[GROVERACING]

I used the R3 in th LV300 last weekend. I agree with AZ45 and I have to say I am very happy with it. I have used the d-cel for years and the R3 is different but better in my opinion. It takes a little getting used. The R3 feels alot more positive than the d-cel, as the d-cel has a little give to it and the R3 is very stout when you reach the tether limit. Just wanted to pass on my experience with them. The rest of our team uses the d-cel and because of the R3 price they will probably keep the d-cel for a while.

[pdailey]

I used the R3 in th LV300 last weekend. I agree with AZ45 and I have to say I am very happy with it. I have used the d-cel for years and the R3 is different but better in my opinion. It takes a little getting used. The R3 feels alot more positive than the d-cel, as the d-cel has a little give to it and the R3 is very stout when you reach the tether limit. Just wanted to pass on my experience with them. The rest of our team uses the d-cel and because of the R3 price they will probably keep the d-cel for a while.

Good to hear. I just ordered my R3 @ the Expo and was much more comfortable than I though when I tried it on. Can't wait to get it.

[Kritter]

"local upholstery shop triple stitch the built in Kidney belt directly to my diving suit"
That sounds like a great idea , I'd like to get that done. Thought I would be spitting blood after the SNORE 250 ;-) any one ever install a device to help keep feet planted in the right seat? (like bicycle clips).


the old fabtech 7s (previous to that it was the sage council/welchel truck) was shimano sponsored and had toe clips.

[SPROCKET]

I just recieved my r3, if Iam reading the instructions right it looks like a will need to adjust the system when i change cars. class 1 car seat is at a slightly diff angle than my 1600. anybody have any exprience with this.

[sweetdevil]

If you are getting into a different car, most likely you will need to re-adjust the harness. Unscrew the screws before getting into the car, get in and get adjusted with seat belts on and helmet chin strap fastened. The tethers are pretty stiff, but adjust them so you have a maximum of 3/4" straight forward movement before the restraint is felt. Make sure it is felt at the same time on both sides of the helmet.

Read the instructions in the box for more tips on installing and making it comfortable.

[9Iron]

Ok guys lets try and keep this thread a general discussion about the D-Cell/Hans systems.

So who is running what system exactly and how do you like it?

D-cell, my neck isn't all stiff and sore for the three days afterwards.
We've been using those donuts that velcro just under the helmet.
I like the D-cell much better. I had been watching this thread and made
the big step to it.

[AXIS#955]

does anybody have any expreiance with the g-force hnr that they say works only with there helmets. looks kinda shady.

[TUBETECK]

Im still thinking d-cell is the way to go. A buddy of mine bought the r3 to use in mexico in a class one but wasn't sure he was going to keep it or not after the race. Time will only tell as these devices are still kinda new to the off road family and all the kinks still have to be straitened out.