Nitrogen Shocks - suspension q's

[FASTnSPEEDY]

Nitrogen Shocks - suspension q's

Why don't any CORR trucks run the nitrogen gas shocks that are prevalent with most monster trucks running around today?

I've heard it's because with CORR your suspension can only drop 2 inches with all the nitrogen removed from the shocks. (I'm not sure as this is hearsay)

But there are a few top pro-stadium trucks on the east coast that run a custom cut down version of the monster truck shocks, and they do really well. These are 100+k trucks in parts alone, so they aren't running them on budget saving concerns. (They actually cost more than the standard coil/triple bypass setup)

I used to think that the standard coil/triple bypass setup was far superior. But after talking to many monster drivers and teams, and the pro-stadium team that runs them I'm not so sure. Most monster drivers say that the big suspension companies are hard to deal with and just plain unknowledgeable. (To put it in nice words) (I'm not saying I agree with that, but I'm just repeating what they say)

[Triaged]

...I've heard it's because with CORR your suspension can only drop 2 inches with all the nitrogen removed from the shocks. (I'm not sure as this is hearsay)...CORR has all their rules up online. Go read them.

[Kritter]

Air shocks were outlawed when Rob Mac couldnt be beat. Sad.

[FASTnSPEEDY]

Air shocks were outlawed when Rob Mac couldnt be beat. Sad.
That's what brought up this whole question, I saw in the short course section, the thread about the greatest ever driver, and saw that it mentioned rob mac and the banning of his air shocks.


CORR has all their rules up online. Go read them.I've looked through the class specific rules and never noticed a rule banning them, I guess they are in a general section? I'll go read some more.


So I'm guessing, that if CORR hadn't of outlawed them, then most everyone would be running them?
Does anyone know the general reason behind getting rid of them? Just because the drivers didn't like getting beat, and wanted a reason to hurt his advantage? Or was there legitimate cost control concerns behind the decision?

Also, if they are better, why do no desert teams run them? Are they banned by the desert promoters too? Do they fade quicker than normal setups?

[Triaged]

...I've looked through the class specific rules and never noticed a rule banning them, I guess they are in a general section? I'll go read some more....

Read this part on p44 of the '07 rules (this is for Pro2)

SHOCK ABSORBERS AND SPRINGS
A. Maximum of two (2) shocks per corner.
B. One (1) spring stack per corner, maximum of three (3) springs on one shock.
C. External bypass allowed on one (1) shock per corner.
D. Determination of air shock usage will be done in the following manner: Truck will be presented to
CORR Technical, on level ground, at existing ride height. Truck height will be measured from a given
point on the chassis, all canisters will be purged of air, and nitrogen or other charged support. If truck
droops more that one and one-half (1-1/2) inches the truck will be illegal.
E. Bump stops will be allowed on front and rear of the truck. Bump stops will only be legal if they absorb
the last six (6) inches of upward compression.
F. CORR Technical Director must approve all shocks.

[Bulldozer]

why do no desert teams run them? Are they banned by the desert promoters too? Do they fade quicker than normal setups?

I'm gonna guess it's heat issues. I highly doubt they are "banned" by SCORE or any other desert promoter (for unlimited vehicles).

[DailyPedal]

[QUOTE=FASTnSPEEDY;349605]Nitrogen Shocks - suspension q's

(Q) Why don't any CORR trucks run the nitrogen gas shocks that are prevalent with most monster trucks running around today?
My Answer-bypass shocks can be easily fine-tuned to track conditions. Coil springs are linear rate while air shocks get progressively stiffer spring rate. And I may be wrong but I think Rob's shocks were outlawed because he could adjust them from inside the truck...not sure though.

(Q) But there are a few top pro-stadium trucks on the east coast that run a custom cut down version of the monster truck shocks, and they do really well.
My Answer-you guys run short sprint races and don't have the need to truly split hairs in set up.

(Q) I used to think that the standard coil/triple bypass setup was far superior.
My Answer-it is but if you think you can reinvent the wheel or know something that we don't, go for it. That is what makes this stuff fun and challenging. And on a side note, watch the big trucks racing Dakar and see what shocks they use...won't see any cut down air shocks on those guys and they run unlimited budgets.

(Q) Most monster drivers say that the big suspension companies are hard to deal with and just plain unknowledgeable.
My Answer-This is BS, there are very few M/Ts racing compared to off road so for a shock company, that translates into very little saved data. Plus for a long time, there were a lot of different suspension designs. I worked with a shock and suspension guy and he helped a M/T team once in a while. That team compiled data from testing but the data only worked on that particular truck. When any other truck team contacted him, it was like starting all over and most just didn't have the time.

[FASTnSPEEDY]

Read this part on p44 of the '07 rules (this is for Pro2)

Thanks for the link.

Thanks for the reply DailyPedal, I love questioning setups, and learning more from the answers. This was very insightful.


A last question: Many of the East-Coasters (particularly the m/t teams) that have used both have said that the biggest advantage to air shocks is their ability to work like the coil/triple bypass, while sitting much lower, allowing the truck to have a lower ride height with the same travel. (A big deal for m/t's and also a big deal for pro-stadium teams, as our courses are much more tight and technical that yall race on out west.)

[Bulldozer]

Thanks for the link.

Thanks for the reply DailyPedal, I love questioning setups, and learning more from the answers. This was very insightful.


A last question: Many of the East-Coasters (particularly the m/t teams) that have used both have said that the biggest advantage to air shocks is their ability to work like the coil/triple bypass, while sitting much lower, allowing the truck to have a lower ride height with the same travel. (A big deal for m/t's and also a big deal for pro-stadium teams, as our courses are much more tight and technical that yall race on out west.)
Ride height is fully adjustable with a coilover/bypass combo. As you go lower, you gain down travel and lose up travel, I don't see how air shocks could get around that.

[amr126]

It seems that may be answered by the air shocks rising rate vs. spring linear rate. A lower ride height could be considered okay since the end of the stroke would be much stiffer than initial stroke.

[Bulldozer]

It seems that may be answered by the air shocks rising rate vs. spring linear rate. A lower ride height could be considered okay since the end of the stroke would be much stiffer than initial stroke.

A tender spring or progressive coils have the same effect.

[Triaged]

Also the same with an air-bump that can soak up the last 6" of travel in CORR.

[DailyPedal]

And the biggest plus for the MT guys is the fact that it is much, much cheaper (regardless of what you have been told) to build a custom length air shock the size they use versus a huge coil over, custom springs of different rates and huge custom bypass. And the air shocks probably help to control body roll on the MTs too (in addition to the add on sway bar of course).

[mattb]

Also, if they are better, why do no desert teams run them? Are they banned by the desert promoters too? Do they fade quicker than normal setups?

If you look around, you'll still see them on some C1 cars in the desert. Fox supports (or used to) air shocks.

[DailyPedal]

If you look around, you'll still see them on some C1 cars in the desert. Fox supports (or used to) air shocks.
Not many...and not the front runners. And don't get me wrong, air shocks do have a place. If I was trying to build a light, cheap and simple car then air shocks would be the choice but at a cost of ride control and quality.

[Kritter]

Not many...and not the front runners. And don't get me wrong, air shocks do have a place. If I was trying to build a light, cheap and simple car then air shocks would be the choice but at a cost of ride control and quality.

The best 4 seat prerunners out there still use them...ALumicraft. Coilcarrier/airshock aka bump stop. 3 shocks in 2.

[Random Thoughts Racing]

Here are some photos of the monster truck shock manufacturer RPM product at the 2007 Baja 1000 contingency.

[DailyPedal]

The best 4 seat prerunners out there still use them...ALumicraft. Coilcarrier/airshock aka bump stop. 3 shocks in 2.

According to their website, Alumicraft uses a airshock with a bypass on the front and a coilover/coilcarrier with a bypass in the rear on the dual sport and full coilovers w/bypass on the race cars.
Not sure what point you are trying to make Kritter when you say "Coilcarrier/airshock aka bump stop. 3 shocks in 2."