Deaver spring questions

[jgbjgb]

The Camburg coil over front with cut and turned beams, NOT extended beams, will give me 4-6" of lift, lets assume 5".

The '96 Ford F150 4WD comes STOCK with a 2" block.

The Deaver Springs guy agreed with my assessment. If the front is lifted 5" and I order springs with 5" of lift, that I would have to keep the stock block. If I remove the stock block I will only be getting 3" of lift, because I will be starting at -2" from STOCK. If I take the STOCK block out and want to equalize lift with out the block I would need rear springs with about 7" of lift.

He actually recommended the set up WITHOUT the block, less axle wrap mainly.



To me, wouldn't a set of rear leaf springs giving 7" of lift be more STIFFER than a set of rear leaf springs giving 5" of lift?

To me the block allows me to run "less lift" with the springs and possibly have a better ride with less arched softer springs.

Am I wrong in my thinking?

Recommendations, opinions......

[steveG]

Doesn't Camburg have leaves to match the front end kit?

[Polarcub]

Not neccesarily, deaver uses a proggressive setup, basically each spring in the pack has a different spring rate. If you want to lose the block then I would go with their recommendations. One option is to get the front done and then take the truck over to deaver for measurments and have them build you a set that way. Those guys over their are great, they can dial in the rear leaves for you pretty easily. Have you asked deaver this question? I am sure they can explain it to you better than I but I can tell you that they can get the ride you want, it may just take a little tuning.

Steve, camburg uses deaver springs, they only offer whatever deaver offers off the shelf, I ran into a minor issue with mine when I had them do my suspension in the rear leaf setup that I ended up dealing directly with deaver. It also helps that my dad use to bring alot of buisness to them before he retired.

[johnnyweb]

who cares how much lift the springs get. every truck is different. you do not want the back to be lifted as much as the front any way then you will still have the stock rack to the truck. listen to the guys at deaver they know what to do to your rear springs on that truck they have done probably like 1000's of them. i would go with like a 3" spring or so and even that will depend on fuel cell size, spare tires etc. basically how much weight is on the rear axle. and do not use the lift blocks. good luck on your project.

[steveG]

Steve, camburg uses deaver springs, they only offer whatever deaver offers off the shelf, I ran into a minor issue with mine when I had them do my suspension in the rear leaf setup that I ended up dealing directly with deaver. It also helps that my dad use to bring alot of buisness to them before he retired.

See that just doesn't seem right to me. Camburg has been around long enough and worked on these trucks long enough that they should be able to hand you all the parts (or install them) and be done with it.

And yes I know there are a lot of variables and that can make this difficult, but Jim's truck is nothing exotic and should be very straight forward.

[jgbjgb]

Steve, and others;

I found a place in UT to do the install, Mt Logan Off Road, while discussing the project on the phone I asked him about rear lift heights and block versus no block. He said he would build it the way I wanted it.

I talked to Deaver this morning and he said the same thing, he would build the springs the way I wanted them but recommended to NOT use the block.

The problem is I don't know the recommended set up to work best with a LT front.

Camburg says the springs they sell are 2 1/2" lift and do NOT use the block. That would be a 1/2" lift. That does not make sense to me.
With the Camburg rear set up (1/2" lift), my 33's would be stuffed in my wheel wells the minute I hit my first bump. Again this makes no sense to me.

At the moment I have Sky Jacker springs giving me 4" of lift in the rear, with the block, to equal the 4" lift in the front. The truck sits just a tad higher in the rear. I can clear 33" tires easily.

As for weight in the rear, I always have two spares secured in the back by the tail gate.

[jgbjgb]

who cares how much lift the springs get. every truck is different. you do not want the back to be lifted as much as the front any way then you will still have the stock rack to the truck.

Why do you not want the rear to be lifted as much as the front? Does this have anything to do with performance or handling?

What do you mean by stock rack?

I do not know much about LT set ups, that is why I am asking these questions. I want to get it right the first time.

[Triaged]

I think he meant rake (rear normally sits 1-2" higher then the front from the factory).

[steveG]

Now all this makes more sense.

Go with the spring that Camburg recommends. I'm sure it'll work and sit right. My truck has about 4" of lift in the front and I believe the rear springs are 2.5" lift leaves. unloaded the trucks sits a higher in the rear and works great off-road.

BTW: I don't see any reason for your truck to be lifted as much as 6", especially with coil-overs. I would keep front end lift closer to 4" with 33" tires.

[jgbjgb]

Steve,

I am not trying to argue here, I am trying to understand you.

The Camburg LT front says 4-6" of lift, I am assuming about 5". If I go with the Deaver springs that Camburg offers, my truck will sit 4 1/2" LOWER in the rear than the front. A 2 1/2" lift minus the stock 2" block equals 1/2" lift.

The fact that I am running a 4" lift at this time allows me to visualize how that will look. My truck would then sit 1" higher than it does now in the front and 3 1/2" LOWER than it does now in the rear.

Again, this does not make sense to me, especially when that rear set up is supposed to give me 18" of wheel travel, unless that is about 1" of up travel and 17" of down travel.

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I have read that with dual rate coil overs you can adjust ride height by adjusting the collars. If you lower the ride height, does this decrease suspension travel? Or does it just lessen the up travel and increase the down travel?

[steveG]

I think the confusion here is that you're comparing to what you have now. The advertised lift numbers (4-6" and 2.5") are from stock ride height. In stock form your truck sat a little higher in the rear so you want less lift in the rear or you'll end up with a mega-rake. And yes you'll ditch the block.

Keep in mind that I have never dealt with a spring manufacturer directly. For example the leaves on my truck were built specifically for Autofab to work with their front end kit. I made one call, had everything shipped to me and it all worked great. There was no guess work. I would try to do the same with Camburg. That way if anything goes wrong they can help make it right.

Hope that helps.

[jgbjgb]

That is what is gnawing at me, the advertised lift numbers are from STOCK height, my stock height is with a 2" STOCK block. So a 2 1/2" lift minus the block is a 1/2" lift.

[jgbjgb]

Jeff at Deaver agreed with me, for examle, if I want a 4" lift in the rear WITHOUT the stock blocks I would have to get a 6" lift, to make up the 2" I lose taking out the blocks.

[nobodyspecial]

My guess, is that if Camburg says that it is a 2.5 inch lift and they remove the block, it is actually a 4.5 inch lift spring minus the 2 inch block which nets you a 2.5 inch lift in the rear. just a guess, and it makes sense to me :)

[jgbjgb]

I just talked to the place that is actually going to do the install, they feel, and I agree with them, that the best thing to do would be to do the front, take any measurements that Deaver needs to build the springs such as final height, weight of rear of vehicle, etc, and than order the springs to my needs and specifations.

One thing is that my truck will be kind of a dual sport, open desert driving and trail driving. With an 8' bed that is a lot of rear overhang. With the rear sitting level or preferably bit higher than the front that gives me a better departure angle going through old creek beds.

Plus, looks wise, I would rather have my rear a bit higher than sitting lower.

[johnnyweb]

your truck will perform better with the rear a little lower then the front. better weight transfer and setup for larger hits. think of it in motorcycle setup when you go to hit some thing big on a dirt bike you usually want to wheelie into the ditch etc. know think of your truck hitting a ditch. however you can not wheelie your truck. most true performance suspension systems do not provide much lift as you do not want a tall center of gravity. lower is better. remove bumpers and end of the frame to get better approach and departure angle.

[nobodyspecial]

Cant wheelie a truck? :)

YouTube - Robby Gordon Wheelie

Probably seen it already, but I just had to add it. (I know what you mean, though)

[steveG]

your truck will perform better with the rear a little lower then the front.

Having a full-framed truck lower in the rear than the front means the rear suspension is going to run out of bump travel sooner than the front. That's a bad situation when hitting a big bump or on a hard landing. It is great for the pucker factor though. :D

A better solution would be a traction-aid and proper ride height. This would increase traction and give the needed bump travel.

[johnnyweb]

well of course you are not going to set it up with 1" of up travel or something stupid like that. the guy was worried about having 5" of lift over stock in the rear of instead of like 2" or 3'' which will still leave about 8" or so inches of up travel on an f150. i race a f150 with this set up on it and have tried high & lower ride height and the lower works out better in my set up. also it usually is not the first hit that get the truck out of shape in a series of whoops it will be the second or third one that gets you and by that time the suspension should have rebounded and dropped out. as when you jump the suspension unloads (rebounds) in the air so you are still using the same travel. on my pre runner where there is no rule book i c notched the frame to get the lower ride height. which works great and he could do that as he is not building a race vehicle. im not sure the right formula for up travel verses drop travel but im pretty sure you want like 60/40 or 70/30 with the more being drop travel.

[johnnyweb]

Cant wheelie a truck? :)

YouTube - Robby Gordon Wheelie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJKLfRvLlms)

Probably seen it already, but I just had to add it. (I know what you mean, though)

i stand corrected. that is a cool shoot. yes i have saw it before. what i meant to say was its (hard) to wheelie your truck on command.

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

Long bed, huh? Hope You have 4wd or plenty of friends with shovels! It's REALLY tough to wheelie a long bed!

[nobodyspecial]

I knew what you meant, but I couldnt resist :)