Any Diesel gurus here? Cummins problem.

[HotRod82]

I have an 01 Dodge/Cummins with 82K on it. The turbo seized, I took it to Action Turbo here in SD and they rebuilt it. They told me it was NOT oil related and a turbine wheel had shattered causing the problem. I checked the oil line to the turbo just to be safe, I got a good steady stream of oil by cranking it over so I re-installed the turbo and down the road I went. 25 miles later the turbo seized again. Back to Action Turbo and they said they don't know what happened......anyone have any ideas? I have good oil pressure, the truck is completely stock. I'm thinking I got a bad rebuild.......??

[Dave_G]

Is the oil return line clear? If it is, I think you just got a bad rebuild. I learned years ago to buy nothing rebuilt when it comes to automotive stuff. There is just no quality control in that market and it's a waste of time IMO. I just always buy new OEM parts and never look back. I just sold my 97' Dodge/Cummins with 267K miles on it and never once put anything rebuilt on it. It was the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned in 30 years.

[HotRod82]

Yes, the oil return was clear- there was no coking at all. You are so right about rebuilt stuff!! I never rebuild, always buy new but I let myself be talked into it. I'm going to go with a brand new Holset and see what happens.

[DailyPedal]

Did the truck make good power before it seized or did it feel lazy? If it was lazy, it may be running lean or the exhaust may be plugged and causing the turbo to overheat...a friend had a similar truck and the thing wouldn't get out of its own way, then he changed out the heavy, soot filled stock exhaust and it was like brand new, with over 200k miles on it. Can't remember if it had a type of converter on it or not...

[creynolds]

I've had a few cases where the cartridge seals go bad, creating excessive crank case pressure due to a minimal amount of boost entering and passing through the oil return. This also creates a deficiency in lubrication due to aeration of the oil. Did they do a full rebuild (seals, bearings, pinwheel, balancing) or just simply replace the pinwheel and check to see if the shaft was bent? Could be that just the pinwheel was replaced and the problem is still there.....hence another grenaded turbo.

[HotRod82]

I've had a few cases where the cartridge seals go bad, creating excessive crank case pressure due to a minimal amount of boost entering and passing through the oil return. This also creates a deficiency in lubrication due to aeration of the oil. Did they do a full rebuild (seals, bearings, pinwheel, balancing) or just simply replace the pinwheel and check to see if the shaft was bent? Could be that just the pinwheel was replaced and the problem is still there.....hence another grenaded turbo.

Hmmmm...interesting. They supposedly did a complete rebuild and balance, BUT their rebuild went south in literally 20 miles or so. Normal empty driving, not hauling anything. I am really leaning toward a bad rebuild, but something had to take out the original- was that simply a shattered wheel? What makes this failure so strange is I had a really good running stock truck with absolutely no trouble until this.
Thanks for the input.

[creynolds]

You say turbine wheel so I'm assuming it was the exhaust pinwheel that let go. It's very uncommon for a wheel to actually shatter under normal conditions, specially on a stock truck with stock boost pressures. Usually it takes some form of injested liquid to actually shatter a wheel but that's usually the compressor side taking on a bit of water and shocking the compressor pinwheel. What's more common is bearing failure which leads to the turbo self destructing and usually doing major damage to pinwheels. This bearing failure can be induced by bad cartridge seals and failure will happen much more quickly if the seals are bad on the exhaust side. You get super heated, sooty drive pressure aerating the oil instead of clean boost. Can you give some more information on how exactly it let go (rpm, throttle position, etc). Did the wheel actually shatter or was it just mangled? There's a huge difference to both and what caused the failure.

[HotRod82]

I was cruising home to san diego from albuquerque, EMPTY running about 80 (which is about 2000 rpm with my 3:55 gears.) Going up a decent grade so I was probably half throttle or so, out of nowhere a loud screech under the hood and that was it. The rebuilder said the exhaust side SHATTERED, but the bearing looked fine. The one thing in the back of my mind is how cold it was in Alb when I left that morning...it was about 20 degrees. The truck started fine and all but I was wondering if the oil was too cold. I run valvoline Premium blue 10-40.

The rebuilt unit- I purged the oil line by cranking it over then started it up. I high idled it for about 10 mins to help break it in.....Drove normally into town and about 20 miles later it started screeching again.

I also cut open the oil filter after the second failure and it was completely clean...no debris at all. The truck has had religious oil changes with WIX filters.

Thanks again!

[creynolds]

That screeching sound you mention is usually a sure sign of bearing failure. This has me torn because all the info you've given me points directly to the bearings which then leads to wheel damage.....but the builder says they're good. Bearing failure usually gives you some warning which normally is the screeching sound you heard. While grenading or shattering components usually gives no warning and sounds like someone shot a 12GA under the hood. As far as the temperature goes, as long as you allowed the truck to warm up your fine. You can definately do some damage putting the engine under significant load right on start up, but I don't know anyone dumb enough to do that. I'm very curious to see what the builder has to say about the second failure. When he rebuilt the first time did he use YOUR turbo or provide you with someone elses re-man. If it was your turbo that was rebuilt then personally I don't think he found the source of the problem, hence second failure (bad rebuild). Is he going to warranty the second rebuild?

[HotRod82]

Don't know what he is going to do about it yet. He did rebuild my turbo, he did not outsource it that I know of. I am hoping he has the unit finished tomorrow so we will see.

[Devin J]

Since you've got another on the way, this info is a little late.

If anything engine related happens again, take it directly to Cummins. You'll have excellent knowledge, and parts support. As much as I'd like to think a Cummins rarely breaks, there's always the off chance!

[HardCharger81]

We had a string of rebuilt turbos fail in the forklifts I work on. Just like what was said before, it was a bad batch of parts.

[creynolds]

any news?

[BlackTaco1450]

another thing to think about is if the shop primed the turbo..... that turbo shaft and bearing goes from 65 degrees to 500-600 degrees in less then a minute lol if the mechanic just put the rebuild on and fired her up I bet that was the beginnign problem... on all the turbo cars i work on i remove the spark plugs and crank the engine till i feel oil has reached the turbo, then i put the plugs in and fire her up and let it idle for atleast 5 minutes

[HotRod82]

any news?

Well, the lame rebuild shop basically told me to go elsewhere after I challenged them on a few points. (STAY AWAY FROM ACTION TURBO IN SANTEE!!) I ordered a NEW turbocharger online it will be here tomorrow. I am changing the oil feed line just because, also changing the oil and filter. I am going to leave the drain line off when I start it (after priming it) so I can actually measure how much oil is going through the turbo. Unfortunately it is impossible to tell at this point if the first and second failures were related. The first failure was very sudden, with no warning at all which leads me to believe it was a shattered wheel not anything oil related......Hopefully this saga will end tomorrow!

[WALSHMOTORSPORTS]

The KORE offroad race team races Dodges and are getting ready for Paris Dakar. These guys are pretty sharp with trouble shooting. It might be worth a call to get another opinion.

[amr126]

Did they give the destroyed rebuilt turbo back? Personally I haven't dealt with turbos so I don't know laborious it is to dismantle one, but could you check for bearing discoloration or coking of the oil. Just some ideas...

[creynolds]

Well, the lame rebuild shop basically told me to go elsewhere after I challenged them on a few points. (STAY AWAY FROM ACTION TURBO IN SANTEE!!) I ordered a NEW turbocharger online it will be here tomorrow. I am changing the oil feed line just because, also changing the oil and filter. I am going to leave the drain line off when I start it (after priming it) so I can actually measure how much oil is going through the turbo. Unfortunately it is impossible to tell at this point if the first and second failures were related. The first failure was very sudden, with no warning at all which leads me to believe it was a shattered wheel not anything oil related......Hopefully this saga will end tomorrow!

That's a shame......most shops hate educated customers. The incompetent shops love it when they can blow smoke up the customers butt knowing they won't be challenged technically. In your case being able to challenge them technically obviously made them uneasy very quickly, they couldn't think of any other B/S to give you so they asked you to leave. There's not much you can do with the situation now other than chalk it up to a learning experience. If you decide that you want to rebuild the bad turbo to keep as a spare then I can refer you to a few professional turbo shops that I have extensive experience with.

Cord

[GHAcompanies1596]

redlinediesel1 pm him for ANYTHING diesel... >>>> GURU

[Devin J]

Give your engine serial# to any Cummins dealer, and tell them what you need. You will be much happier in the end. Your list of phone calls should be in this order: Cummins Cal pacific, Bayshore international, or Dio international. Perhaps a kenworth, or freightliner dealer. They can also do the same thing, or feel free to PM me, and i can do this, for a less expensive price.

[HotRod82]

Give your engine serial# to any Cummins dealer, and tell them what you need. You will be much happier in the end. Your list of phone calls should be in this order: Cummins Cal pacific, Bayshore international, or Dio international. Perhaps a kenworth, or freightliner dealer. They can also do the same thing, or feel free to PM me, and i can do this, for a less expensive price.

Turns out I know a guy in the service dept. at Cal Pacific, so they will be at the top of the list from now on. Thanks!

I didn't get it back together this weekend, I will know if I am back on the road tomorrow.

[HotRod82]

To those who PM'd me wondering if I ever got this resolved the answer is yes!! It was definately a BAD REBUILD of my original turbo. It wouldn't be such a big deal except for the fact that the clowns who did it just shrugged their shoulders and didn't care. Oh well...live and learn I guess. After finding out just how many of these Holset's fail, I'm definately going to upgrade to a ball bearing Garrett if there is a next time....hopefully not!