22re engine swap help!

[andyw]

i have a 92 toyota pickup and im putting in a new 22re in it. i bought a 22re out of a 89 becuase i was told that it was complete plug and play. well after i put everything in there is a extra sensor on the block under the intake manifold and i think it could be a crank sensor? but now when i try to start it im not getting a spark. we tried swapping out the dizzy and ignitor but still no spark. maybe the ecu isnt recognizing cyl 1 because that sensor on the block isnt plugged in because my wiring harness doenst have a plug for it..... any suggestions?

[green787]

Get a cheap 12 volt troubleshooting test probe from Kragen. Make sure you are getting voltage to the ignitor and the distributor is triggering the ignitor. Hook up a timing light and make sure you aren't getting spark 180 degrees out or something. Generally, if everything is close, the ECU is going to allow some spark just so the engine will run and you can get home. Might not run right with that sensor unplugged, but it should run. Don't just test for spark by looking for it at a spark plug that is grounded against the engine.

[andyw]

green787, i have a test probe and i am getting voltage to both the ignitor and distributor.. ill check out the timing light idea tomm.

does anybody know if the 22re from a 88 toyota is far different than a 92? ... 92 is obd1 and 88 is pre OBD but does anybody know the main differences?

[green787]

green787, i have a test probe and i am getting voltage to both the ignitor and distributor.. ill check out the timing light idea tomm.

does anybody know if the 22re from a 88 toyota is far different than a 92? ... 92 is obd1 and 88 is pre OBD but does anybody know the main differences?

Also make sure you are getting 12volts to the ignitor during cranking mode... not just when the ignition is on...

[bottlefed98]

Is it the oil pressure sender wire?? I think toyotas have an oil pressure cut off for the fuel pump. do you have a pic of the wire and exact location ill check on my truck

[andyw]

nope not the oil pressure sender wire. its to the left of it. its not on the 93 bottem end but its on the 88. well does anybody know of a good decent shop in south OC that can do good work on offroad toyotas and is good at wiring and touble shooting. i checked it with a timing light and its not 180 degrees out. everything theoretically should be just fine... unless its the crank sensor and it is not regocnizing cyl 1.

so ya help

[BAJASURCHIVATO]

I dont know why, but when we swaped the motor in my 94, the main relay for the fuel injection blew, so check if you can hear your relay click in the fuse box under the hood, and check the grounds, and other relays under the hood.....

[andyw]

maybe thats it. ill have to check it. it turns and turns and wants to start but then just doesnt.

[Co-Dog]

If you are using the '92 ECU with the '88 engine, then the ECU doesn't care about a sensor that you don't have a connector for.

BUT....If you've got connectors that went to sensors on the '92 that don't exist on the '88, you're problem may be there.

If the ECU isn't getting an input that it requires, it won't fire the injectors. It could be a simple as grounding a wire, but don't do that unless you know what the wire originally did on the '92.

Remove the air intake at the throttle body and squirt a little gas in there. It should start and die if its an injector/ECU problem. Be sure to put the air intake back on before you turn on the ignition. If you have a timing issue you may have fire come out of the throttle body. Not a problem unless you forget to put the intake back on. (personal experience)

[andyw]

all the wiring that came from the 92 is plugged in. all of it. is it going to make a differnce though that im using a 92 ecu than a 88? 92 is obd 1 and 88 is pre obd so will that effect it.... i tried sqirting some gas in the throttle body last sunday and it just made it pop loud once and that was it....

[Co-Dog]

OK, thats a start! Now you know that fuel isn't getting to the cylinders either because the injectors aren't firing or because the fuel isn't getting to the injectors. The pop means that your timing is way off. If the pop sounded like it came from the throttle body, that means a cylinder fired while the intake valve was still open. Too much advance on the distributor.

Don't stress, your close to getting it running.

Have you heard the fuel pump run at all? Make sure you have fuel pressure.

I know more about older toyotas than the newer ones, but I will find out what the differences are.

In the mean time, make sure that fuel is getting pumped to the injectors. That will save time chasing an electrical problem that may not exist.

[JasonHutter]

Two easy steps to take are: 1 pull a spark plug (prefferably before checking any fuel issues) plug it back into the plug wire and turn the engine over a couple times with the end of the plug grounded up against the engine. Use a glove or plyers with rubber handles to not get shocked! If you have spark you will see it. Second, put the plug back in the motor and plug everything back in. Then go to the fuel rail and loosen the fuel line on the fuel rail. Don't take it all the way off because it will be under a fair amount of pressure. Turn the truck to the on position and you should get a lot of gas under pressure (watch your eyes and such). If all is well, try to listen to all the injectors. You can always put a pry bar or screw driver against each one and up to your ear while trying to start the engine. It will be a clicking noise if they are working. If everything seems in order we can go from there with wiring,timing, or sensor issues. By the way, I can't remember ever seeing a crank position sensor on a 22re but could be wrong!

Jason

[andyw]

co dog. i tried turning my dizzy 180 degrees to see if the timing was way off and it still just popped.

i have no spark jason. the first thing i did was take off the spark plug ground it and check for spark and my fuel pump is priming and i have pressure through the fuel rail....

[JasonHutter]

When we were racing with the 22r we had problems with the pick-up coil more than once. The two little wires that come out of the distributer go to the pick-up coil. Most of the time it was those two little wires that we had problems with, eventually breaking off. We began siliconing the wires right where they go into the pick-up coil to limit the movement they had and they lasted longer. Its in the distributer right below the rotor when you have the cap off. It is the piece that tells the igniter and coil when to fire so they fire off to the distributer to distribute to which ever cylinder.

Jason

[andyw]

ya we thought that maybe the coil was messed up so we swapped out my friends distributor from his running truck and still we just had a popping noise and no firing...

keep up the advice guys!

[Co-Dog]

You are getting spark. That's what the pop is. No pop, No spark.

You need to adjust the dist. according to where the pop came from.If it sounds like intake pop, turn a little clockwise. If exhaust pop, then a little counterclockwise. But that's not your real problem.

Been busy and haven't had a lot of time to check it out, but there may be an issue with some of connectors that plug in correctly, but the output is different in an '88 compared to '92. I'll try to find the differences today or tomorrow.

Bottom line is that it sounds like the injectors aren't firing. You can check that by pulling the elect. connector from an injector and hooking a test lamp or meter across the 2 wires. When you crank the engine, the lamp should flicker.

[Co-Dog]

As far as your OBD question goes....Here's what I know. '88-'92 use OBD-1. OBD-2 came out in '92, so there is a possiblity that you have OBD-2 and that could be a problem (not sure what part of the year they introduced it). Have you tried to get it to talk to you? Do you know how to do that?

You mentioned swapping distributors and still getting popping noise. Does it pop without putting gas in throttle body?

[JasonHutter]

Is your mass air flow sensor plugged in with air flowing through it. These engines won't run without it!

Jason

[andyw]

thanks everybody for your help. i plugged in a ecu from a 89 and it fired right up and the timing was just a bit off and we dialed it in tonight.... i guess the ecu from a 92 and a 88 is a lil different? can anybody comfirm that? maybe the truck i bought just had a bad ecu? i dunno

[andyw]

alright well now that the trucks running its idling at like 4K rpms once its warm. how do you adjust the idle on these 22re's? help!

[andyw]

could it be the MAF/AFM? the part number on my nippondenso maf/arm is
222-501-6010
197-100-2610

is that correct for a 88 ?

[Co-Dog]

Congrats! Found out today that the injectors have a different resistance on a '92. That's awsome that you got a hold of an earlier ECU.

There is a solenoid resistor that lowers the voltage to the injectors. I know '88 had one, but not sure about '89. May or may not be an issue. Mounts on right fender well and has heat sink fins.

Make sure the throttle stop screw is backed out. It should just barely touch the stop when the throttle plate is closed.

If you've got at toyota repair manual, (even a Chilton should have the info.) The throttle position sensor may need adjustment. You check resistance of the unit with different feeler gauges between the stop.

Be sure all vacuum hoses are on correctly and not cracked. A vacuum leak in the right place can make it idle high. Spraying WD-40, carb cleaner, or even water can help locate a leak. Just listen for a change in idle speed.

[andyw]

co dog my savior. i didnt use a 88 ecu i used another 1992 that i got from a junkyard i think the originol one that i bought with my car was fried! the vacuum hoses are perfect. i coped them from my friends truck and they arnt cracked at all. im gonna try and adjust the TPS tomm but im kinda leaning towards the thought that its a maf/afm problem..oh and when my throttle stop screw is backed out it idles like UNBELIVEABLY high. but when i twist it in then it just goes to about 1800-2000ish (im guessing, no tach) and then goes right back up again

basically i want to know if anybody out there knows if a 22re out of a 88 will work fine in a 92 with a 92 ecu. also should i use a 88 maf/arm or a 92 maf/afm..... hellllp me

[Co-Dog]

Air Flow Meter is the same for all years.

Do you know how to make the ECU give you trouble codes?
I will explain if you don't.
Now that it's running, the codes may tell you exactly what is wrong.

Nobody seems to know whether it is possible to use a '92 ECU with an '88 engine. Apparently its best to match the engine and ECU. Takes the guess work out of the equation.

Turns out that '88 was the last year that used a solenoid resistor, which means that you don't have one, but you do need one. It adds resistance to the injector circuit to lower the voltage. From '89 on they used injectors with a built in higher resistance. If it doesn't fry your ECU, it will eventually fry the injectors. Should be able to find one in a wrecking yard. If you check the injectors with an ohmmeter, 1 or 2 ohm means you need resistor, above 10 ohms means you don't need one.

[Co-Dog]

One more thing, you said you don't have a tach.

Without a tach, you can't really set the timing correctly. Loosen the distributor clamp a little so that it barely moves by hand. Start the engine and move it one way or the other to make the idle speed drop. Your gonna need a tach. Autozone used to carry a tach,volt, ohm, amp meter combo for about 70 bucks.

[andyw]

co dog. can i just rebuild my injectors for my 92 and put them in? or is it the type of thing where i cant wait a month or so on it? .... would the moving the distributor help it if it idles a LIL high when cold but the problem is definently when its hot and after about 20 min of driving?

ya on this obd 1 ecu do i just use a paper clip and connect the leads like on say a honda and count the flashes?also there are no check engine lights when imdriving.

also everytime i start the car i think its resetting my ecu because the clock always starts out at 1:00... ohhhh problems


oh and i also unplugged my tps to see if the problem persisted and it did. is it a problem that im using a 88 intake manifold?

[Co-Dog]

If the '92 injectors will fit, I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work. Toyota says that the resistor is to protect the injectors from electrical surges, so it's hard to say if it's ok to go without it. Since you've still got your old injectors as backups, I say go for it.

Moving the dist. changes idle speed at any temperature, but what your describing sounds like the air bypass valve is staying open. There is a hose that comes off of the throttle body and goes down to a valve mounted on the block. When the engine gets hot, try squeezing that hose shut with some pliers. If the idle drops a lot, then the valve is bad. Make sure the electrical connector is plugged in also.

Yes it a flashing light code, but I don't think the ECU stores anything unless the light is on, so probably won't help.

The ECU should have its own fuse and stay powered all the time.
Hopefully you don't have wiring issues, that could complicate things.

'88 manifold should be ok

[andyw]

well turns out that the throttle cable was getting pinched to my engine cage over bumps beacause it was kinda loose and woul get tied up. i made a bracket and it goes around it now.... hard to explain. still my ecu resets everytime i start the car. it always go back to 1:00 on my clock. any suggestions?

just set the TPS as well and no more idle flutter.

if i could go back and do this again i would definently try an get the EXACT same year motor. but i used a 88 longblock with 92 components and it worked pretty good. it runs real good right now except for my ecu resetting everytime. only sensor that wasnt on 92 that was on the 88 was a knock sensor on the passenger side block of the engine. but since theres no connector for it on my wiring harness i dont have any engine codes and seems to be just fine.

[JasonHutter]

Next time stuff the 3rz 2.7ltr motor in it. It has way more torque than the 22r!

Jason


http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=B0AC73FC-7D2E-4D1B-862D-8

http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=C7604958-08CC-4FA3-A92A-E

This one was with the 22r before.

http://www.vidiLife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=645FB2E8-173F-45AF-B306-8

[Co-Dog]

'92 ECU doesn't know about the knock sensor, so it doesn't care. No problem there.

That's funny about the throttle cable. I thought about that, but figured you would have noticed if that was the case.

The clock resetting may not mean that the ECU is resetting. There should be a white wire with a blue stripe that that goes to the ECU. That wire should have voltage even with the ignition off. It holds the ECU memory. Not sure why your clock is resetting though. You might try checking the voltage across the battery terminals while the engine is cranking. Its possible that the voltage is low enough to cause the clock to reset.

Glad to hear everthing else is working out. Good job!