Dakar 2008 canceled !!

[hlgsms]

The French Government recommends French citizens not to go to Mauritania on the occasion of the rally.

Is the consequence to cancel the Dakar 2008? At this moment not more than rumors ...

[tractoR]

true, it already leaked through some serious mainstream media in France, and is going to be officially announced at 12:00 GMT :(

[PackMule]

Yes. Rally PanAm called from Lisbon -- it's official.

Here's the recorded call from RallyRAIDio:


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http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/RallyDone1.mp3



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http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/DakarDone.mp3





HOLY ****!!!

[alan4s]

Statement from ASO is on Dakar.com too.

Damn!

[Phazer399@hotmail.com]

click here for notice on ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=99&id=3180745)

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Makes Mexico seem tame. I just got a call from Chris Wilson in Scrutennering and people are devastated.

[PackMule]

Check out http://RallyRAIDio.net for calls from Europe as they come in.




This sucks.

[Alliturken]

Incredible.

Al Qaeda.... oh lovely.

:mad:

[CaptinCrash]

its just cause Robby couldn't run full strength

[spalind]

Wow...there goes that...gonna hurt privateers like RG and such the most (amongst the competitors) as why does Monster and other sponsors wanna funnel funds into an effort that doesn't ever take place.....Time to run a HUGE offroad event in Canada!!

[b-makk]

I'm devastated. I don't have words to describe... My next 2 weeks were supposed to be spent tracking online every morning and watching every highlight clip I could... This blows. I can't imagine how bad it must be for all the competitors.

[RGFan]

Wow!!!! What a bummer. WIth that being said, I would much rather see this happen then one or more of our racers end up on Al Jazerra Television in an Al Queda Video or worse

[Stover]

I just got word from my brother in law who is over there right now with VW, He said that they are going to cancel the Dakar ralley this year due to the terror threat and pollicital unrest in Mauritinia.
He mentioned that 4 French travelers were killed in Mauritania last week and that the race officials could not ensure safety for race teams in the area.

What a Bummer!!!

[RBrown]

I just pulled this off of Speed TV's website.....

The 2008 Dakar Rally has been canceled due to terrorist threats made by Al Qaeda to event organizers ASO.

Four French tourists were killed in a terrorist attack in Mauritania last week, and the French government warned the ASO that the risk of new attacks could not be discarded.

The ASO also insisted that the future of the event is not under threat despite the cancellation of the 2008 edition. Below is the organizers’ full statement.

"Based on the current international political tension and the murder of four French tourists last 28th of December linked to a branch of Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, but also and mainly the direct threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organizations, no other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken by ASO.

"ASO's first responsibility is to guarantee the safety of all: that of the populations in the countries visited, of the amateur and professional competitors, of the technical assistance personnel, of the journalists, partners and rally collaborators. ASO therefore reaffirms that the choice of security is not, has never been and will never be a subject of compromise at the heart of the Dakar rally.

"ASO condemns the terrorist menace that annihilates a year of hard work, engagement and passion for all the participants and the different actors of the world's biggest off-road rally.

"Aware of the huge frustration, especially in Portugal, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal, and beyond the general disappointment and the huge economical consequences in terms of direct and indirect repercussions for the countries visited, ASO will continue to defend the major values of great sporting events and will carry on its engagement for a durable development through the Actions Dakar, started 5 years ago in sub-Saharan Africa with SOS Sahel International.

"The Dakar is a symbol and nothing can destroy symbols. The cancellation of the 2008 edition does not endanger the future of the Dakar. To offer for 2009 a new adventure to all the off-road rally passionate is a challenge that ASO will take on in the months to come, faithful to its engagement and its passion for sports."

[fishd00d]

From the front page of www.dakar.com

Lisbon, Friday the 4th of January 2008

A.S.O. cancels the 2008 edition of the Dakar rally
After different exchanges with the French government - in particular the Ministry for Foreign Affairs - , and based on their firm recommendations, the organisers of the Dakar have taken the decision to cancel the 2008 edition of the rally, scheduled from the 5th to the 20th of January between Lisbon and Senegal’s capital.

Based on the current international political tension and the murder of four French tourists last 24th of December linked to a branch of Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, but also and mainly the direct threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organisations, no other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken by A.S.O.

A.S.O.’s first responsibility is to guarantee the safety of all: that of the populations in the countries visited, of the amateur and professional competitors, of the technical assistance personnel, of the journalists, partners and rally collaborators. A.S.O. therefore reaffirms that the choice of security is not, has never been and will never be a subject of compromise at the heart of the Dakar rally.

A.S.O. condemns the terrorist menace that annihilates a year of hard work, engagement and passion for all the participants and the different actors of the world’s biggest off-road rally. Aware of the huge frustration, especially in Portugal, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal, and beyond the general disappointment and the huge economical consequences in terms of direct and indirect repercussions for the countries visited, A.S.O. will continue to defend the major values of great sporting events and will carry on its engagement for a durable development through the Actions Dakar, started 5 years ago in sub-Saharan Africa with SOS Sahel International.

The Dakar is a symbol and nothing can destroy symbols. The cancellation of the 2008 edition does not endanger the future of the Dakar. To offer, for 2009 a new adventure to all the off-road rally passionate is a challenge that A.S.O. will take on in the months to come, faithful to its engagement and its passion for sports.

[xtremedad]

Wow!! I just read the wire news. This is very dissapointing.

I will have to say that I have the greatest respect for ASO and the leaders for making this decision even at what equates to be the last minute. My respect also goes to all the competitors who are hart broken that their quest will be halted this year. Best regards to all of them.

[Total Loss]

Too bad- the terrorists win..
They win when they blow us up, they win when we back down.
The ASO did the right thing though. Safety should always be primary.
At least all the competetitors will go home this year in one piece.

I've got 2 words- smartbombs and waterboarding.
Thank God for our brave soldiers fighting them over there.

[BGRANT]

I feel really bad for the privateers that poured their, heart, soul and lifesavings into just getting there. Life is more important and the ASO is looking out for their competitors and teams. I just hope that someday we can bury all of these terrorist.

[TT#48]

wow....Thats crazy. I cant believe this...Dakar is the worlds largest off road adventure and its being canceled because of terrorist threats....HOLY SHIP

[b-makk]

Team Dakar USA probably would have been a prime target so I'm glad for their sake that it was cancelled (if the threats were true)

[bpthirteen]

Dakar Rally canceled due to terror concerns; 1st time race called off in its 30-year history

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer
January 4, 2008

PARIS (AP) -- The annual Dakar Rally was canceled Friday on the eve of the race because of terror threats and the recent slaying of a French family in Mauritania that was blamed on al-Qaida-linked militants.

It was the first time in the 30-year history of the automobile, motorcycle and truck race across the Sahara Desert that it has been called off. In a statement, organizers blamed international tensions, the tourists' Dec. 24 murders and "threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organizations."

"No other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken," they said.

France, where the race organizers are based, had urged the rally to avoid Mauritania after the family of four was slain in an attack blamed on a terror cell that uses the Mauritanian desert as a hide-out.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner praised the decision.

"In our opinion, in a complicated geographical context -- and above all in a context of insufficient security -- it seems very wise to have chosen security, and I commend them for it," he told France-Info radio.

The race organized by the Amaury Sport Organization, which also runs the Tour de France, had been due to start in Lisbon, Portugal, on Saturday and finish in Dakar, Senegal, on Jan. 20. Eight of the stages had been set to take place in Mauritania. Some 550 car, truck and motorcycle drivers were expected for the 5,760-mile trek.

The race's central appeal -- its course through African deserts, scrubland and savannas -- is also a weak point for security, making it difficult to protect thousands of people as they traverse such remote regions.

Cyril Neveu, a five-time Dakar winner in the motorcycle category, acknowledged that the race could have been targeted by terrorists.

"It is a big caravan of more than 3,000 people," he told French broadcaster I-Tele. He said he respected the organizers' decision but added: "Many are going to be disappointed."

"Providing security from the first to the last competitor is an onerous job," Neveu added. "One cannot say that there was zero risk."

In the past, terrorism fears have forced organizers to cancel individual stages or reroute the race. In 2000, several stages were scrapped after a threat forced organizers to airlift the entire race from Niger to Libya to avoid danger zones. Several stages were also called off in 2004, reportedly because of terror threats in Mali.

French ministers had discussed safety at the rally for the 2008 race at a Cabinet meeting Thursday, and French officials had met with race organizers to discuss the risks.

"The ministry strongly warns all French citizens against going to Mauritania until further orders," government spokesman Laurent Wauquiez said Thursday. "That goes for all French (people), as well as the organization of the Lisbon-Dakar rally."

Only the father of the family survived the Christmas Eve attack in a town 150 miles east of the Mauritanian capital as the family picnicked on a roadside.

That attack was followed by another days later, when three Mauritanian soldiers manning a checkpoint were killed. Mauritania is a largely peaceful Islamic republic that has been rocked by the back-to-back attacks.

Authorities have blamed a terror "sleeper cell" linked to the Algeria-based al-Qaida in Islamic North Africa for the slayings of the family. Al-Qaida in Islamic North Africa claimed responsibility for the killing of the soldiers in an audio tape released to Al-Arabiya TV station.

The Mauritanian government had announced last week that it would mobilize a 3,000-man security force to ensure the race's safety. The country's foreign minister on Friday complained that canceling the race was not justified.

"We have taken every measure to ensure that the rally goes forward without incident," Foreign Minister Babah Sidi Abdallah told RTL television station.

Associated Press writers Ahmed Mohamed in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and John Leicester in Paris contributed to this report.

[RGFan]

Team Dakar USA probably would have been a prime target so I'm glad for their sake that it was cancelled (if the threats were true)

I agree, TDUSA would have definitely have been a top 2 target (and not the second) for sure.

[bpthirteen]

Dakar Rally canceled due to terror concerns; 1st time race called off in its 30-year history

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer
January 4, 2008

PARIS (AP) -- The annual Dakar Rally was canceled Friday on the eve of the race because of terror threats and the recent slaying of a French family in Mauritania that was blamed on al-Qaida-linked militants.

It was the first time in the 30-year history of the automobile, motorcycle and truck race across the Sahara Desert that it has been called off. In a statement, organizers blamed international tensions, the tourists' Dec. 24 murders and "threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organizations."

"No other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken," they said.

France, where the race organizers are based, had urged the rally to avoid Mauritania after the family of four was slain in an attack blamed on a terror cell that uses the Mauritanian desert as a hide-out.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner praised the decision.

"In our opinion, in a complicated geographical context -- and above all in a context of insufficient security -- it seems very wise to have chosen security, and I commend them for it," he told France-Info radio.

The race organized by the Amaury Sport Organization, which also runs the Tour de France, had been due to start in Lisbon, Portugal, on Saturday and finish in Dakar, Senegal, on Jan. 20. Eight of the stages had been set to take place in Mauritania. Some 550 car, truck and motorcycle drivers were expected for the 5,760-mile trek.

The race's central appeal -- its course through African deserts, scrubland and savannas -- is also a weak point for security, making it difficult to protect thousands of people as they traverse such remote regions.

Cyril Neveu, a five-time Dakar winner in the motorcycle category, acknowledged that the race could have been targeted by terrorists.

"It is a big caravan of more than 3,000 people," he told French broadcaster I-Tele. He said he respected the organizers' decision but added: "Many are going to be disappointed."

"Providing security from the first to the last competitor is an onerous job," Neveu added. "One cannot say that there was zero risk."

In the past, terrorism fears have forced organizers to cancel individual stages or reroute the race. In 2000, several stages were scrapped after a threat forced organizers to airlift the entire race from Niger to Libya to avoid danger zones. Several stages were also called off in 2004, reportedly because of terror threats in Mali.

French ministers had discussed safety at the rally for the 2008 race at a Cabinet meeting Thursday, and French officials had met with race organizers to discuss the risks.

"The ministry strongly warns all French citizens against going to Mauritania until further orders," government spokesman Laurent Wauquiez said Thursday. "That goes for all French (people), as well as the organization of the Lisbon-Dakar rally."

Only the father of the family survived the Christmas Eve attack in a town 150 miles east of the Mauritanian capital as the family picnicked on a roadside.

That attack was followed by another days later, when three Mauritanian soldiers manning a checkpoint were killed. Mauritania is a largely peaceful Islamic republic that has been rocked by the back-to-back attacks.

Authorities have blamed a terror "sleeper cell" linked to the Algeria-based al-Qaida in Islamic North Africa for the slayings of the family. Al-Qaida in Islamic North Africa claimed responsibility for the killing of the soldiers in an audio tape released to Al-Arabiya TV station.

The Mauritanian government had announced last week that it would mobilize a 3,000-man security force to ensure the race's safety. The country's foreign minister on Friday complained that canceling the race was not justified.

"We have taken every measure to ensure that the rally goes forward without incident," Foreign Minister Babah Sidi Abdallah told RTL television station.

Associated Press writers Ahmed Mohamed in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and John Leicester in Paris contributed to this report.

[Alliturken]

Move the whole thing to China/Mongolia for '09, run it across the great Gobi desert. They are looking for more major events, they have money, and you KNOW they aren't going to tolerate threats of any kind, lol. N. African nations/leaders obviously can't/won't handle the situation anymore, so just move it to another desert. Silk-Road Rally.

:mad:

[dfmcse]

I was going to make a crack about at least Robby has another 12 months to get his support vehicles to Lisbon. However, based on what I'm reading and hearing I don't anticipate a 2009 event.

What ever the reason for the cancellation . .. the whole thing has been handled poorly by the ASO. One incident a month earlier, then a month of hand wringing by the French and apparently the ASO's insurance company forces the cancellation one day before the start.

CRAP!

Note: I don't have a problem with the cancellation from a safety(terror attack) perspective.

[spalind]

Move the whole thing to China/Mongolia for '09, run it across the great Gobi desert. They are looking for more major events, they have money, and you KNOW they aren't going to tolerate threats of any kind, lol. N. African nations/leaders obviously can't/won't handle the situation anymore, so just move it to another desert. Silk-Road Rally.

:mad:

Or Australia...or somewhere that the host country/countries have their shiznit together...This was bound to happen and I can't imagine that its going to get better in the near future given the countries involved (outside of Portugal) have barely crawled out of the stone age and are in no condition (financially or organizationally) to stop the influx of Islamic extremists...

[rojodiablo]

Time to get a race from Alaska to the Mexican border. It would solve all the problems. No Mexican bandits, no loons with car bombs to dodge. What the f#*K would the canucks do?? Throw snowballs at us as we drive by???:D Besides, they would love the influx of money and visitors. Sal, if you're listening....

[desertbull]

I talked to Turbo about an hour ago and he said they were in line at scruitineering with the three race trucks at the gate ready to be inspected and the ASO started taking down tents and telling everyone to go home because it was cancelled.

Turbo said they at a pub contemplating...and many people don't really know what's going on.

[Alliturken]

Or Australia...or somewhere that the host country/countries have their shiznit together...This was bound to happen and I can't imagine that its going to get better in the near future given the countries involved (outside of Portugal) have barely crawled out of the stone age and are in no condition (financially or organizationally) to stop the influx of Islamic extremists...

Australia would be great, I agree. But the enviro-land-use laws are now getting pretty out of hand there too, not to mention aboriginal sacred-land agreements and all of that. So, could be tough to run a long enough race there. I have a relative living in Melbourne, but maybe one of the Aussies who read this board can comment more accurately on what they'd be up against.

This also makes me really wonder about the future viability of the Baja races. Mexico is backsliding fast, drug cartels ruling the roost, and I doubt they'll be able to offer much safety in the future. These leaders have no backbone, and/or like the payoffs too much to do anything about it.

[pappawheely]

I say they just outfit the cars rat patrol style and go hunt those bastards down!

[Chris Tobin]

Australia would be great, I agree. But the enviro-land-use laws are now getting pretty out of hand there too, not to mention aboriginal sacred-land agreements and all of that. So, could be tough to run a long enough race there. I have a relative living in Melbourne, but maybe one of the Aussies who read this board can comment more accurately on what they'd be up against.

This also makes me really wonder about the future viability of the Baja races. Mexico is backsliding fast, drug cartels ruling the roost, and I doubt they'll be able to offer much safety in the future. These leaders have no backbone, and/or like the payoffs too much to do anything about it.

But the ASO was willing to cancel for safety/security reasons, SCORE does not at all seem willing to do the same...:confused:

[Tipracer]

Refunds??? or will they roll the entry over for next year(assuming they run next year). This sucks for all involved. This is the type of event that will kill a sanctioning body.

[alan4s]

I was going to make a crack about at least Robby has another 12 months to get his support vehicles to Lisbon. However, based on what I'm reading and hearing I don't anticipate a 2009 event.

What ever the reason for the cancellation . .. the whole thing has been handled poorly by the ASO. One incident a month earlier, then a month of hand wringing by the French and apparently the ASO's insurance company forces the cancellation one day before the start.

CRAP!

Note: I don't have a problem with the cancellation from a safety(terror attack) perspective.


Look, we racing fans don't really know how credible the threat was (and probably never really will). As late as yesterday the ASO was standing firm on running the event (at least that was thier public posturing). It makes me think that some more compelling evidence was presented to them for them to make the decision they did today.

Imagine though that the threat is real and if the terrorist cell in Mauritainia were not the bumblers they appear to be. If they hadn't killed the French family and run across that security checkpoint, they could have gone unnoticed. The range of possibilities of damage they could have achieved is staggering - from sniper attacks on individual vehicles, to a wholesale raid of an overnight bivouac. It could have been a catastrophe.

As disappointing as it is, it seems this may have been the wisest decision at this point. Too bad they hadn't prepared some alternate routes though, so they could have preserved at least some of the race.

[MikeAdams]

By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer
January 4, 2008

...

That attack was followed by another days later, when three Mauritanian soldiers manning a checkpoint were killed. Mauritania is a largely peaceful Islamic republic that has been rocked by the back-to-back attacks.

...

Associated Press writers Ahmed Mohamed in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and John Leicester in Paris contributed to this report.

I like it how the AP says that it is a largely peaceful Islamic republic. This page from the CIA lists the history of Mauritania and just how "peaceful" it really is.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mr.html

What a huge shame for RGM, VW and all the other hopefulls. I couldn't imagine prepping all year to race the 1000 and then have it cancelled due to safety..

[RGFan]

I was going to make a crack about at least Robby has another 12 months to get his support vehicles to Lisbon. However, based on what I'm reading and hearing I don't anticipate a 2009 event.

What ever the reason for the cancellation . .. the whole thing has been handled poorly by the ASO. One incident a month earlier, then a month of hand wringing by the French and apparently the ASO's insurance company forces the cancellation one day before the start.

CRAP!

Note: I don't have a problem with the cancellation from a safety(terror attack)
perspective.

That is what gets me, this was probably just as much political as it was safety. I am all for being safe and if that was 100% of the reason, then I am totally down with what they decided, like I said earlier, we all would much rather have them all come home safe then in a body bag or end up on some terrorist hostage video, doing god only knows what to them, that really goes without being said.

With that being said, did anybody find it odd how the ASO put 9 of the 15 stages in this particular area of Africa, talk about puting all of your eggs in one basket. I am sure logistically, this was a good move. That is alot of people to move around and if you can have a somewhat centralized hub so to speak even for a few days, it cuts out alot of work for the ASO and support staff. But as a result, they had to cancel over half of the race which translates to the cancellation all together under these circumstances. I would think that if a race of this magnitude was to be put on, they would want to keep the ball moving so to speak and not put 9 stages in 1 area and spread it out a bit so when and if a threat/s came in, they could cancel one or maybe two stages and move on with the race.

Am I full of crap or does that make any sense?

[Stover]

The Dakar ASO needs to call Ensanada...Move the race Sal Fish style:D

[RGFan]

I like it how the AP says that it is a largely peaceful Islamic republic. This page from the CIA lists the history of Mauritania and just how "peaceful" it really is.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mr.html

What a huge shame for RGM, VW and all the other hopefulls. I couldn't imagine prepping all year to race the 1000 and then have it cancelled due to safety..

Yeah, most of North Africa is pretty rough, that is no secret. Has been and will be for years to come.

[BajaDale]

Time to get a race from Alaska to the Mexican border. It would solve all the problems. No Mexican bandits, no loons with car bombs to dodge. What the f#*K would the canucks do?? Throw snowballs at us as we drive by???:D Besides, they would love the influx of money and visitors. Sal, if you're listening....

That's a great idea! There ain't too many Canadians in this huge country you could probably race through here and no one would even know!

[randy s]

i wonder how much money has gone down the growler for all the competiters. forget the aso losses. vehicle constuction, shipment, crew accomodations and travel expenses from all over the world. even when they're refunded their entree fees, the losses are staggering. this whole thing is bazaar. wow. maybe the aso should have issued each vehicle turret mount cal.50's. amazing set of circumstances for sure. the thing that gets me is how long have they really known they were gong to do this. this could'nt have been a last minute deal. really too bad. i wonder what would have happened if all the competitors were gathered up, told what the circumstances were, and were asked to vote on whether to race or not?

[HDRA1]

this just sucks now i have no reason to rush home over the next couple of days f%^&

[PAB]

There is danger in every corner of the world, except maybe Canada. So sorry for all those that went to race and couldn't.

I'm sure Sal and SCORE would make a couple Dakar classes if any of the racers wanted to tackle the Baja 500 and 1000. I am not trying to be a d!ck I am just saying they could come race with us for those teams whose location is viable, if any.

[Will_Higman]

Wow I hope this doesn't mean that I have to invent another dream!

We were the first American team to finish the Rally in the T-4 truck class. Hopefully we won't be the last...

THIS RACE IS SO AWESOME... What a shame!

http://www.willhigman.com/gallery/data/544/Picture_646.jpg

:(

[pwcfan]

I talked to Turbo about an hour ago and he said they were in line at scruitineering with the three race trucks at the gate ready to be inspected and the ASO started taking down tents and telling everyone to go home because it was cancelled.

Turbo said they at a pub contemplating...and many people don't really know what's going on.

*** Tim, I'm with Geviss........I'm goin' to the pub too.....I wonder if Neville can get Pacifico over there ???.........this sucks..........Baja keeps shooting (?) itself in the foot, and now this.........ALL WE WANT TO DO IS RACE !!!!!!!!......IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK ????....The bad guys win again........

Tim, how 'bout the DirtNewz Raid Rally, sponsered by So. Cal Concrete & Caltime Metals (the mighty metal !!)......I like the idea of Australia.......that is a good one. The China thing may work......I'm not so sure about the Alaska to Mexico thingy though...too many Liberal/Environmenalist Wacko's over here. Diane Finestein would see it squashed !!!! I have a sneaky suspicion that "DAKAR" may be on borrowed time.

It is a new world we live in.............I'm not sure for the better......God Bless America !

[EdgeHost]

This definately sucks.
If security is enough of an issue to make this call,Then I'm glad they did for everyone involved's safety.
Still sucks for all the people,Their dreams and all the money they have wrapped up in this venture.
But like SDG&E says, Safety First.

Australia could be good.

[R_TAYLOR]

I say they just outfit the cars rat patrol style and go hunt those bastards down!

Im with you on this. Its bad enough we have to be screened at the airport and spend countless dollars on security but to cause a race to be cancelled is not acceptable.

[Chase 2]

Not good, it basically means the terrorist won this one.

[Chase 2]

I can only imagine the disappointment the competitors and their crew must be feeling.

[flyinbronco]

I say they just outfit the cars rat patrol style and go hunt those bastards down!

I second that opinion. We should send over a bunch of Apache gun ships to fly air cover and give each competitor a gunner instead of a navigator. :mad:

[Let's go off roading]

I always enjoy watching Dakar on TV. Bring Dakar here.

[pwcfan]

Chase, yes a complete bummer, but safety first. We all have friends/family over there.

Where in the world would it be safe to put on a show like this? Many stages. Many people. Many countries ?????.........We know we could not pull it off here.

The terrorists are EVERYWHERE. This is a sad day. What is next, Indy/Daytona/Monaco/Super Bowl/World Cup/French Open/Olympics/etc.......damn.

[spalind]

Chase, yes a complete bummer, but safety first. We all have friends/family over there.

Where in the world would it be safe to put on a show like this? Many stages. Many people. Many countries ?????.........We know we could not pull it off here.

The terrorists are EVERYWHERE. This is a sad day. What is next, Indy/Daytona/Monaco/Super Bowl/World Cup/French Open/Olympics/etc.......damn.

The difference between all those events you mention and the Dakar/Baja is that those events all take place in 1st world countries with 1st world infrastructure and government...whereas the Dakar and Baja do not...its part of the allure that Baja and Dakar have but its also a big risk in todays day and age and getting riskier by the day it seems...

[NIKAL]

This sucks big time! Like it was said the Terrorists just won and now they know what to do to keep this race and or anything like this from happening again. Once we give in to the S**t bags on this earth they will feel they have taken control. I was really hoping the ASO would just postpone the start by a day or two until they felt this situation was reviewed or the course could be re-routed. There was so much money and time put into this rally and its all for not. I bet in the future it will be hard to get sponsors to fork over large amounts of money for a race that might not happen.

Well maybe RG and Ronn will race both H3's at Parker insted?

[bufeo]

Bittersweet news, this cancellation. I would not want the competition continue in a hostile environment, but what a disappointment to all the competitors.

Maybe this—"...from Saint-Petersburg [Russia] to Beijing starting June 2008, the Transorientale. "

This was just announced HERE (http://www.raid-live.com/dakar/en/accueil/news1.shtml).

Allen R

[redbaronrace]

Maybe Now All Countries Should Come Togehter And Go Hunt Those Cowardly Alqueda Like The Fungus They Are And Anialate Them Once And For All!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PMAZ7]

Australia would be awesome, but there are some wack-o enviro folks down there. Greenpeace style when it comes to racing. They already struggle with the F1 race and that's just one weekend.

Plus, the French have always been known for making the right decisions. I agree that safety should always be first and foremost, but this smells a bit fish like.

[tractoR]

Plus, the French have always been known for making the right decisions. I agree that safety should always be first and foremost, but this smells a bit fish like.

Yeah right, this is the 2008 conspiracy to prevent RG from winning. :rolleyes:

[pwcfan]

Nikal.....Yeh........Parker sounds great.........I wonder if they can get the spares and what not back here in time..........They have the off-road chase stuff here....they do not the the Dakar support trucks for this race, although I'm sure they would like to.

I'll check with Till to see if what the story is...........Daytona Qualifying does not conflict.

This is a AWESOME idea.......Parker would get a lot of spectators !!!!

[Chase 2]

Give a listen to Rallyradio for a prospective from different bike teams:

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/DavePost2.mp3


and:

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/Robb2way1.mp3


One of the most interesting comments is that if they cant run through Mauratania, the Dakar is dead............for good.

[kaw500]

I can only agree with the sentiments already expressed. What a waste, what a shame.

[Kirk_Babbington]

This is the death of the Dakar race in my opinion. Making threats is how terrorists gain the upper hand. They make a threat and we react by changing our routine. I'm not saying that human lives are not something to worry about, it is number 1 in my book. I think that if these groups see that by killing a few tourists and making threats can shut down a huge event like the Dakar, they will continue on with the same crap.

Unfortunately the Dakar is not a closed course race where everyone is in one area at the same time, so providing security is next to impossible, even with infantry and helicopters patrolling the race course. I think the ASO should issue the warnings to all racers and teams, and give them the choice to race it or not. The best security they could provide would be at the paddocks between stages where the race teams are all in one area.

All in all this is a huge blow to rally raid events, but like it has been said before, these areas have always been dangerous and they will continue to be in the future.

[hlgsms]

I like the idea of Australia.......that is a good one. The China thing may work......

Are there any dunes in Australia? The "China thing" means http://www.transorientale.com/, right?

[Icon 1]

I think someone needs to slow this rumor mill down. There are hundreds or racers and race teams sitting right now ready to race I would let things play out a little more before calling it.

These guys want to race and I am not convinced they will give that up this easly.

As for SCORE and ASO two totally different groups.
Beyond compair.



Informed

[Baja Fool]

A.S.O. cancels the 2008 edition of the Dakar rally




After different exchanges with the French government - in particular the Ministry for Foreign Affairs - , and based on their firm recommendations, the organisers of the Dakar have taken the decision to cancel the 2008 edition of the rally, scheduled from the 5th to the 20th of January between Lisbon and Senegal’s capital.
Based on the current international political tension and the murder of four French tourists last 24th of December linked to a branch of Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, but also and mainly the direct threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organisations, no other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken by A.S.O.

A.S.O.’s first responsibility is to guarantee the safety of all: that of the populations in the countries visited, of the amateur and professional competitors, of the technical assistance personnel, of the journalists, partners and rally collaborators. A.S.O. therefore reaffirms that the choice of security is not, has never been and will never be a subject of compromise at the heart of the Dakar rally.

A.S.O. condemns the terrorist menace that annihilates a year of hard work, engagement and passion for all the participants and the different actors of the world’s biggest off-road rally. Aware of the huge frustration, especially in Portugal, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal, and beyond the general disappointment and the huge economical consequences in terms of direct and indirect repercussions for the countries visited, A.S.O. will continue to defend the major values of great sporting events and will carry on its engagement for a durable development through the Actions Dakar, started 5 years ago in sub-Saharan Africa with SOS Sahel International.

The Dakar is a symbol and nothing can destroy symbols. The cancellation of the 2008 edition does not endanger the future of the Dakar. To offer, for 2009 a new adventure to all the off-road rally passionate is a challenge that A.S.O. will take on in the months to come, faithful to its engagement and its passion for sports.

[Baja Fool]

A.S.O. cancels the 2008 edition of the Dakar rally




After different exchanges with the French government - in particular the Ministry for Foreign Affairs - , and based on their firm recommendations, the organisers of the Dakar have taken the decision to cancel the 2008 edition of the rally, scheduled from the 5th to the 20th of January between Lisbon and Senegal’s capital.
Based on the current international political tension and the murder of four French tourists last 24th of December linked to a branch of Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, but also and mainly the direct threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organisations, no other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken by A.S.O.

A.S.O.’s first responsibility is to guarantee the safety of all: that of the populations in the countries visited, of the amateur and professional competitors, of the technical assistance personnel, of the journalists, partners and rally collaborators. A.S.O. therefore reaffirms that the choice of security is not, has never been and will never be a subject of compromise at the heart of the Dakar rally.

A.S.O. condemns the terrorist menace that annihilates a year of hard work, engagement and passion for all the participants and the different actors of the world’s biggest off-road rally. Aware of the huge frustration, especially in Portugal, Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal, and beyond the general disappointment and the huge economical consequences in terms of direct and indirect repercussions for the countries visited, A.S.O. will continue to defend the major values of great sporting events and will carry on its engagement for a durable development through the Actions Dakar, started 5 years ago in sub-Saharan Africa with SOS Sahel International.

The Dakar is a symbol and nothing can destroy symbols. The cancellation of the 2008 edition does not endanger the future of the Dakar. To offer, for 2009 a new adventure to all the off-road rally passionate is a challenge that A.S.O. will take on in the months to come, faithful to its engagement and its passion for sports.

[Chase 2]

I think someone needs to slow this rumor mill down. There are hundreds or racers and race teams sitting right now ready to race I would let things play out a little more before calling it.

These guys want to race and I am not convinced they will give that up this easly.

As for SCORE and ASO two totally different groups.
Beyond compair.



Informed

Perhaps you should listen to this interview/call from team FrontrowGB who at the time of the call was just leaving to pick up their bikes from ParcFerme (sp?) where their bikes have been in impound waiting the start:

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/StanPost1.mp3


Its not a rumor, it indeed has been canceled. You obviously must be in denial.

[Hog Wild]

I think someone needs to slow this rumor mill down. There are hundreds or racers and race teams sitting right now ready to race I would let things play out a little more before calling it. These guys want to race and I am not convinced they will give that up this easly. As for SCORE and ASO two totally different groups.
Beyond compair.
InformedDude, the race is OFFICIALLY canceled. Teams are already making plans to send their stuff home.

[RGFan]

Perhaps you should listen to this interview/call from team FrontrowGB who at the time of the call was just leaving to pick up their bikes from ParcFerme (sp?) where their bikes have been in impound waiting the start:

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/StanPost1.mp3


Its not a rumor, it indeed has been canceled. You obviously must be in denial.

Nice link Craig.

[Alliturken]

I think someone needs to slow this rumor mill down. There are hundreds or racers and race teams sitting right now ready to race I would let things play out a little more before calling it.

These guys want to race and I am not convinced they will give that up this easly.

As for SCORE and ASO two totally different groups.
Beyond compair.



Informed

This is not a rumor. Every news service in the world has reported it now, (although it's funny that some, like AFP, declined to actually say "Islamists" or "Al Qaeda"), and it was officially announced by the ASO.

Edit: You guys were faster to the trigger, lol.

[scombs]

I second that opinion. We should send over a bunch of Apache gun ships to fly air cover and give each competitor a gunner instead of a navigator. :mad:

ASO should invest in some gun ships or RG could mount a 50 cal to the front of the hummer. This sucks they should turn the terrorists to glass and be done with them.

[derco]

Hello

I was at the starting point yesterday and also today. Yesterday the only thing they have anounced uesterday is that the 1st stage will be shortened a lilte bit not because security but because of the heavy rain of the last few days, and also that the trucks will not race neither the 1st stage, or the second.
But in fact yesterday i've listened one or two peolpe talking about mauritanea

Today there was a very diferent and bigger problem. The warnig from the French goverment make the ASO take this hard decision to cancel the rally. The news spread fast and unofficial to all places, even before the official announcement. But has far has i know, the drivers tryed hard to push the organization to do the race until marocco. Or do a Lisbon-Marocco-Lisbon, but the real fact is that the organization has no solution. Around here everybody understand the huge problem im Mauritânea, but no one understand the fact that the organization has no Plan B. So, in the end the terrorist have won this batle without shooting one single bullet.

It's the end of the rally for this year. I Hope they are able to run it next year.

Regards

[JGunn]

ASO must have caught wind of some stinking crap going down. Glad no one was hurt, maybe they are flushing them out now and hoping for a move so they can squash it and then race!:rolleyes:

[Bricoop]

"Robby Gordon and his sponsors have been pretty vocal and angry." That's our Robby, give them hell RG!

[kaw500]

A response from Mauritania officials

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/04/sports/AF-SPT-CAR-Mauritania-Dakar-Rally.php

[Chongo]

Seen on Yahoo Dakar canceled due to terror threat.

[bajabum]

Mad Max Style!!! (driver, Navigator, Gunner)

[Alliturken]

A response from Mauritania officials

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/01/04/sports/AF-SPT-CAR-Mauritania-Dakar-Rally.php

Ah yes, but of course...they are "shocked" and "don't understand it". Bleh.

[Ferrari333SP]

Well now that it's canceled, is there any way Robby could use his Hummer in any other event this year? Is that Transorientale race at all possible for him? Now he has a full year to refine his operation again I guess.

I'm bummed totally, but safety is safety. Yes it is expensive, yes you can be pissed that the organizers didn't tell you directly, but if they have the guts to actually cancel the rally the day before, there must be some serious s*** going down in terms of terrorist threats.

Bring on 2009. It is going to happen. No doubt about it.

[OffroadExit]

already 4 other threads on RDC about this

[Kartman]

This could have been the overall winner

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/imgs/fav.jpg

[RGFan]

Well now that it's canceled, is there any way Robby could use his Hummer in any other event this year? Is that Transorientale race at all possible for him? Now he has a full year to refine his operation again I guess.

I'm bummed totally, but safety is safety. Yes it is expensive, yes you can be pissed that the organizers didn't tell you directly, but if they have the guts to actually cancel the rally the day before, there must be some serious s*** going down in terms of terrorist threats.

Bring on 2009. It is going to happen. No doubt about it.

Besides for sponsorship, I could not imagine anything on the International front with his Nascar schedule and all. What a bummer, safety aside of course.

[PackMule]

Listen to reaction from the man who is THE voice of the Dakar, Toby Moody at RallyRAIDio (http://rallyraidio.net). There's also reaction from team Rally Pan America and FrontrowGB.


Toby links:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/Toby1.mp3


http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/Toby2.mp3



Enjoy.


Nate

[Offset Photography]

Oh man, Robbys gotta be PISSED! Id hate to be on his crew at this momment.

[NIKAL]

From the AP. It sounds like there were direct threats against the Dakar Rally.

Dakar Rally canceled due to terror concerns in region
First time in 30-year history the race has been called off
By Angela Doland, The Associated Press
January 4, 2008

PARIS -- The annual Dakar Rally was canceled Friday on the eve of the race because of terror threats and the recent slaying of a French family in Mauritania blamed on Al-Qaeda-linked militants.

It was the first time in the 30-year history of the automobile, motorcycle and truck race across the Sahara Desert that it has been called off. In a statement, organizers blamed international tensions, the tourists' Dec. 24 murders and "THREATS LAUNCHED DIRECTLY AGAINST THE RACE BY TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS."

"No other decision but the cancellation of the sporting event could be taken," they said.

NASCAR driver Robby Gordon was scheduled to race in this year's event with Team Dakar USA in what would have been his fourth appearance in the race. In 2005, Gordon won two stages in the event, becoming the first American to win a stage in the off-road event. The past three years, Gordon has won three stages and finished 12th in 2005, was disqualified after radiator issues in 2006 and finished eighth in last year's event.

France, where the race organizers are based, had urged the rally to avoid Mauritania after the slaying of the four family members in an attack blamed on a terror cell that uses the Mauritanian desert as a hideout.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner "hailed the organizers' courage and wisdom" in calling off the rally, said Pascale Andreani, a spokeswoman for his ministry.

The race, organized by the France-based Amaury Sport Organization (ASO), had been due to start in Lisbon, Portugal, on Saturday and finish in Dakar, Senegal, on Jan. 20. Eight of the stages had been set to take place in Mauritania. Some 550 car, truck and motorcycle drivers were expected for the 5,760-mile trek.

The race's central appeal -- its course through African deserts, scrubland and savannas -- is also a weak point for security, making it difficult to protect thousands of people as they traverse such remote regions.

Cyril Neveu, a five-time Dakar winner in the motorcycle category, acknowledged that the race could have been targeted by terrorists.

"It is a big caravan of more than 3,000 people," he told French broadcaster I-Tele. He said he respected the organizers' decision but added: "Many are going to be disappointed."

"Providing security from the first to the last competitor is an onerous job," Neveu added. "One cannot say that there was zero risk."

French ministers had discussed safety of the rally at a Cabinet meeting on Thursday, and French officials had met with race organizers to discuss the risks.

"The ministry strongly warns all French citizens against going to Mauritania until further orders," government spokesman Laurent Wauquiez said Thursday. "That goes for all French [people], as well as the organization of the Lisbon-Dakar rally."

Only the father of the slain family survived the Christmas Eve attack, in a town 150 miles east of the Mauritanian capital as the family picnicked on the side of a road.

That attack was followed up by another four days later, when three Mauritanian soldiers manning a checkpoint were killed. Mauritania is a largely peaceful Islamic republic that has been rocked by the back-to-back attacks.

Authorities have blamed a terror "sleeper cell" linked to the Algeria-based Al-Qaeda in Islamic North Africa for the murders of the family. Al-Qaeda in Islamic North Africa claimed responsibility for the killing of the soldiers.

The Mauritanian government had announced last week that it would mobilize a 3,000-man security force to ensure the race's safety. The country's foreign minister on Friday complained that canceling the race was not justified.

"We have taken every measure to ensure that the rally goes forward without incident," Foreign Minister Babah Sidi Abdallah told RTL television station.

Mauritania's police force has been tracking the killers of the four tourists, recovering the car they used and arresting a woman who allegedly helped them secure a boat to cross into neighboring Senegal.

[NIKAL]

Per Marathonrally.com

They spoke with Ronn Bailey and he was quoted as saying, "Among other preparations for the worst case Ronn Bailey - who is the CEO of Vanguard Integrity Professionals - even obtained bullet proof vests for his team and pre-arranged a possible emergency ground rescue operation in Mauritania to transport the team to the next embassy if the situation had gotten serious".

On Marathonrally.com there are video quotes from RG and Ronn regarding the cancelation of the race. I cant get either video to work though.

[AlaskaBaja]

Time to get a race from Alaska to the Mexican border. It would solve all the problems. No Mexican bandits, no loons with car bombs to dodge. What the f#*K would the canucks do?? Throw snowballs at us as we drive by???:D Besides, they would love the influx of money and visitors. Sal, if you're listening....


Alaska to Mexico. We're game for this one. Finally we won't all have to fly 3000+ miles to go race, YAY!

~Kash

[alan4s]

Oh man, Robbys gotta be PISSED! Id hate to be on his crew at this momment.

MarathonRally.com has a couple of good videos:
Robby's reaction (http://www.marathonrally.com/news/dakar_2008_video_robby_gordon_comments_cancellatio n_of_dakar_rally_2008.8704.0.html)

And this is even more chilling:
Ronn Bailey's secret security plans (http://www.marathonrally.com/news/dakar_2008_video_exclusive_background_report_from_ ronn_bailey.8708.0.html)

Based on Ronn's comments, it sounds like the threats were very real.

Oops, sorry Nikal

[Matt Kross]

Remember this when you go to vote for your next President. G. Bush has been trying to eliminate the terrorist and is getting killed, politically, for it. If the Democrates get office the terrorist will have no one to fear and will then grow. It's not a U.S. problem, it's the world's problem. If you run into a Democrate soon, slap him, and say " quit being a bi%&@ and fight for your freedom". God bless our leaders and soldiers for fighting for what is right and FU** the politics. Godspeed Pat Tillman and all your friends.

This really pisses me off.

[bufeo]

HOLD THE PRESSES!

I have it from a good, reliable (imbedded :confused: ) source that reps from the leading competitors went into a meeting with ASO officials about an hour ago with the idea of making adjustments to the rally's course and Stages and going ahead with an abbreviated version of the 2008 Dakar Rally.

I know that many of you here on RDC have access to individuals on the scene there, so maybe you'll have more details about this meeting.

Allen R

[desertbull]

HOLD THE PRESSES!

I have it from a good, reliable (imbedded :confused: ) source that reps from the leading competitors went into a meeting with ASO officials about an hour ago with the idea of making adjustments to the rally's course and Stages and going ahead with an abbreviated version of the 2008 Dakar Rally.

I know that many of you here on RDC have access to individuals on the scene there, so maybe you'll have more details about this meeting.

Allen R

Ahhhh...Grasshopper!!!

PS...is it raining up there yet or are you in Gonzaga?

[NIKAL]

Found this on a differant site. This report is from Ynetnews in Isreal.

'A total shock'
"There are thousands of people here, hundreds of drivers, crewmen and administrators and they're all is total shock," Dror Cohen, an Israeli driver scheduled to race Saturday, told Ynet.

"We could feel something was wrong when we got here yesterday (Thursday)... there were rumors about the race being cancelled, but we didn't take them seriously at first.

"When we got to the assembly area, the organizers asked us to hold off on all the preparations for the race until they hold a press conference," he added. "They just announced the race is canceled. People here just can't believe it."

Cohen went on to describe how the 570 driving teams were now packing up their gear and returning the equipment they were given on-site.

"Now there are rumors that the (French) Foreign Ministry recommendation to cancel the race is nothing more than a cover for the insurance companies; apparently they pulled out and told the organizers they won't cover the thousands of people here if they'll be entering high-risk countries," said Cohen. The ASO can't run this race without the proper insurance.

The ASO, added the statement, is aware of the financial meaning canceling the race entails. "The Dakar is a symbol and nothing can destroy symbols," it said.

[deleted]

Remember this when you go to vote for your next President. G. Bush has been trying to eliminate the terrorist and is getting killed, politically, for it. If the Democrates get office the terrorist will have no one to fear and will then grow. It's not a U.S. problem, it's the world's problem. If you run into a Democrate soon, slap him, and say " quit being a bi%&@ and fight for your freedom". God bless our leaders and soldiers for fighting for what is right and FU** the politics. Godspeed Pat Tillman and all your friends.

This really pisses me off.

GOOD POST

I don’t want to play politics but I completely agree with what you said. I dont want to turn this into political debate but reason for this are why I completely support the war on Iraq and the war on terrorism. I think it is very sad when these POS ruin something like the Dakar.

I am sure I am going to get some flack over this, but I am tired of listening to all the George Bush haters tell everybody how we are doing to much in Iraq and too much for the war on terrorism. I do not agree with everything that Bush administration has done, but they have done their best to counter act problems like this. We can never to do much until all the terrorist are dead.

I commend the organizers of the Rally for their decision. I think it would be great to see some Apache Helicopters run the Dakar course and destroy any terrorist in their way.

[Alliturken]

Remember this when you go to vote for your next President. G. Bush has been trying to eliminate the terrorist and is getting killed, politically, for it. If the Democrates get office the terrorist will have no one to fear and will then grow. It's not a U.S. problem, it's the world's problem. If you run into a Democrate soon, slap him, and say " quit being a bi%&@ and fight for your freedom". God bless our leaders and soldiers for fighting for what is right and FU** the politics. Godspeed Pat Tillman and all your friends.

This really pisses me off.

Bravo, Matt.

Maybe now even the apologists and pacifists in Europe, (and the similarly mamby-pamby-minded chicken*****$ here in the US and Canada), will get it.

Nah. What am I thinkin.

[alan4s]

More news on the threat, from an Isreali source:


DEBKAfile Exclusive: Five al Qaeda suspects detained in Mauritania admit Dakar Rally targeted, as hundreds of disgruntled teams head home

January 4, 2008, 7:32 PM (GMT+02:00)


Dakar Rally called off by al Qaeda terror

Hundreds of crews gathered in Lisbon heard at the last minute Friday that the organizers, the Amaury Sport Organization, had called off the challenging 9,000-mile Dakar Rally for the first time over terror threats. Five suspects were detained by Mauritanian intelligence over the murders of a French family of four on Dec. 24 and three soldiers. DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources report that the suspects told interrogators in Nouakchott that Al Qaeda’s next target in the series was to be the Dakar Rally.

The jihadist group, they said, had deployed terrorist teams in a wide net across the Sahara, Mauritania and Senegal, poised to kill rally participants and take hostages. Eight of the rally’s stages transit Mauritania.

More than 600 cars, trucks, motor-cycles and their crews were set to start the 30th annual Dakar Rally, known as the Everest of off-road racing, Saturday, Jan. 5 and ending at Dakar on Jan. 20 after driving through harsh Saharan terrain. More than 80 percent of the field had invested a year’s hard work and private funds in preparing for the event.

In 2004, several stages of the Dakar Rally were called off because of terror threats in Mali - but never has al Qaeda succeeded in forcing the cancellation of an entire major sporting event. According to our counter-terror sources, al Qaeda’s No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri, who directs the movement’s Maghreb branch, is responsible for this “success.” It has aroused fears in international sporting circles that al Qaeda, having flexed its muscles in Africa, will now try and force the cancellation of the 2008 Beijing Olympics by intimidation.

It is also a grave setback for AFRICOM which the US established to combat terror Since the tough anti-terrorist Nicolas Sarkozy was elected president, Al Qaeda appears to have set its sights on French targets. Monday, Dec. 31, a French aid worker was shot dead in Burundi and another injured. Five people have been detained in connection with the shooting.

Algeria is being used as the base and jumping of center of al Qaeda in the Maghreb, as well as its victim. Abdelaiz Bouteflika’s intelligence services were unable to thwart recent suicide attacks in the country.

[klaus]

Remember this when you go to vote for your next President. G. Bush has been trying to eliminate the terrorist and is getting killed, politically, for it. If the Democrates get office the terrorist will have no one to fear and will then grow. It's not a U.S. problem, it's the world's problem. If you run into a Democrate soon, slap him, and say " quit being a bi%&@ and fight for your freedom". God bless our leaders and soldiers for fighting for what is right and FU** the politics. Godspeed Pat Tillman and all your friends.

This really pisses me off.

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

[Alliturken]

"al Qaeda’s No. 2, Ayman Zawahiri, who directs the movement’s Maghreb branch, is responsible for this “success.” It has aroused fears in international sporting circles that al Qaeda, having flexed its muscles in Africa, will now try and force the cancellation of the 2008 Beijing Olympics by intimidation."

China won't hesistate to crush these **[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]****[IMG]http://cdn3.race-dezert.com/forum/images/mexico-flag.png[/IMG] [I]¡Ay, caramba![/I]**, like the media-enslaved West is. Good.

[Baja Fool]

This whole things just sucks! This is along the lines of what we are seeing in Baja....SCORE and the Mexican Gov't. need to take a hard look at what happened in Mauretania et al. and implement some concrete changes so we can enjoy this type of racing for years to come. What a tragedy for racing in general.

[NIKAL]

Found this on robbynews.com The Al Qaeda is calling this a "Important Victory"!

Terrorism: Cancellation of Dakar rally praised by al-Qaeda-linked websites

Dubai, 4 Jan. (AKI) - Jihadi websites close to the al-Qaeda terrorist network have praised the cancellation of the annual Dakar Rally across the Sahara desert, which had been due to take place from 5-20 January.

The French-based Amaury Sport Organisation, which organises the 30-year-old automobile, motorcycle and truck race from Lisbon in Portugal to Dakar in Senegal, said on Friday that the rally was cancelled due to international tensions, the murder of four French tourists in December and "threats launched directly against the race by terrorist organisations."

They news of the cancellation was received with joy on the internet forums close to al-Qaeda, which defined it as an "important victory".

In the Jihadi website "al-hebah," Sadiq Ibrahim said that it was "a hellish blow by al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb organisation," referring to al Qaeda’s North African operation.

"Look how, with Allah's permission, the Jihad has succeeded in slowly changing the plans of the great powers, as it has now with France," said Abu Maysara al-Andalusi in a comment.

"A big company with a big organisational machine, is forced to change its plans and in this way we have devastated tourism and economic projects in that country," he said.

The al-Qaeda sympathisers also said that the recent deaths of French tourists in Mauritania had profoundly influenced the decision by the organisers.

The French government had urged the rally to avoid Mauritania after the family of four was slain last week in an attack blamed on the Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb terror group that uses the Mauritanian desert as a hide-out.

The al-Qaeda sympathisers on the Internet called on the terrorist network to continue to carry out such activities.

[Total Loss]

GOOD POST

I don’t want to play politics but I completely agree with what you said. I dont want to turn this into political debate but reason for this are why I completely support the war on Iraq and the war on terrorism. I think it is very sad when these POS ruin something like the Dakar.

I am sure I am going to get some flack over this, but I am tired of listening to all the George Bush haters tell everybody how we are doing to much in Iraq and too much for the war on terrorism. I do not agree with everything that Bush administration has done, but they have done their best to counter act problems like this. We can never to do much until all the terrorist are dead.

I commend the organizers of the Rally for their decision. I think it would be great to see some Apache Helicopters run the Dakar course and destroy any terrorist in their way.

Second that Matt K and Matt S.
I try not to be political on this site but THIS IS POLITICAL!!!
All you "head in the sanders" out there in leftist Amerika- WAKE UP.
The terrorists will be at a town near you if we don't stay vigilant.
I have 2 words for the terrorists- smartbombs and waterboarding.
God Bless our troops!

[Alliturken]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened.

Seriously? OK, I'll start stoning my women to death in the street and they'll like me better then for doing things the way they want it, problem solved, no more terrorists.

[klaus]

We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

[RGFan]

We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.


Well put.

[alan4s]

We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

Thank you Klaus. Well said.

[Shotdsherrif]

I understand where klaus is coming from but you guys are right - THIS IS POLITICAL!

I only going to add that please remember there are people like myself that lean Democratic on social/religious issues but who are not pansies and have no qualms about fighting for what they believe in. Just like there are surely people in Mauritania who look toward the 1st world with hope and ambition. That's the problem with having these types of discussion - especially at times like these - it becomes easy to begin to over-generalize and make truly stupid statements that only make the problem worse.

I know people in places like Dubai, Iran and the UAE who are resolutely (though quietly) BEHIND Western efforts to fight the medieval ignorance that plagues their homes. We should remember that when listening to those spouting medieval ignorance here at home. LET'S NOT GET DIVISIVE!

[pride_in_motion]

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.


LOL Please tell me that is a joke! These types of terrorist are not the type that are looking for the freedom of an oppressed people or the right to vote. They will not be satisfied till they establish an Islamic super power type state. You say give them what they want? Well al qaida started out to get the Russians out of Afghanistan, ok cool! mission accomplished but wait hmmm now I think we need to fight the evil Americans and the Crusaders, drive them out of Holy places. The thought that you give a terrorist what IT wants in order to have them leave you alone is childish and the path to no more freedom, as hardcore Islam is not a very nice way to live (just ask the girl in Saudi Arabia that was nearly beaten by the government after being raped by a gang of men just because she met an ex boyfriend to have him return some pictures). If this give em what they want attitude does take over God help us all!

Oh, and I felt it was ok to respond even though this is not the world peace area because you voiced your oppinion against what Matt had said.

[Total Loss]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

Then fix thaMy take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off?t and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

Klaus,
With all due respect- what they want is your livelihood- your website.
What pisses them off is our western way of life. (like desert racing)
I am not ready to give up mine and give in to them.
Giving in is a win for the terrorists. There is already some grumbling by Al Queda as this being a success for them.
The thread started as "Dakar is cancelled"
Don't you think the reason for the cancellation is relevant to the thread?
This appears to be an Al Queda threat.
Last time I checked- they are public ememy # 1 worldwide.

[Will_Higman]

How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

X2

:)

[uncledirty]

Just fit this littte toy in all the race cars/ trucks, and let the race go on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOiPwkhbS2k&NR=1

[Matt Kross]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

Klaus, My apologies for the language. I here what you say and respect it. I am no way smart enough to solve the worlds issues but this forum is about the CXL of Dakar due to terrorist threats. The CXL of this race is a stratigic move by terrorist in "the war". This sucks that racers are now pawns in the war. As you know, the off-raod industry has "political" organizations to help our goals in the off-road community. Please look at the respones to my post and you will see support for my thaughts and maybe getting the "right shocks" may not be the most important issues a racer may have going forward.

[Kartman]

And this is even more chilling:
Ronn Bailey's secret security plans (http://www.marathonrally.com/news/dakar_2008_video_exclusive_background_report_from_ ronn_bailey.8708.0.html)

Based on Ronn's comments, it sounds like the threats were very real.

Oops, sorry Nikal
Am I missing something? I thought his company did software and computer security not executive protection and blackwater style ops.

[Shanesaw]

tht sucks

[alan4s]

Am I missing something? I thought his company did software and computer security not executive protection and blackwater style ops.

Blackwater style organizations need software and computer security. The man has contacts.

[Combo]

Maybe this will only be delayed for a couple of days and not cancelled. So RG can get his support trucks there!!:D

[Ferrari333SP]

As much as I really want to start talking about the politics of this situation(I don't really agree with anything Bush has done over the years), I don't believe this thread is the best place to talk about the politics behind this situation. I could really respond with all my thoughts, but it would turn into a grudge match, and get bad real quick. I've seen it happen before. I say create a seperate thread for the topic, and vent your political thoughts there. If nothing more can be said about the cancellation of the Dakar itself in this thread, speak your thoughts somewhere else.

Dakar 2009 here we come.

[klaus]

Yes It is political. It is very touchy and our country is politically divided. There are some very extreme opinions on both or all spectrum's. rdc is a racing forum and not a political. We have an area that allows for discussions outside of racing. When racing and politics mix like in this case then the two subjects interlock. However this thread started to get heated up and moved towards politics outside of what is happening in Dakar today.

If its not as serious where people die daily willingly or not it would be funny to joke about. On this forum we simply don't believe in that. For example an inappropriate joke about fat or skinny people will be tolerated in its proper area (whatever forum), but one over killing people not (smart bombs, waterboarding). Bush and Irak are also different subjects.

Lets talk Dakar Racing.

[cancinoj]

Dakar 2009 here we come.

Would love to hear you say,, "2008 BAJA 1000, HERE WE COME" :D

[klaus]

Hey does that mean Robby will race Laughlin ?

[Ferrari333SP]

Would love to hear you say,, "2008 BAJA 1000, HERE WE COME" :D


Well that too. If only the Hummer could be entered in that event as well.

[Kartman]

Hey does that mean Robby will race Laughlin ?

Depends on his starting position probably.

[alan4s]

Robyn Gordon just posted this over on RobbysUpRising:


here is come news straight from Jenna @ Team Dakar USA... Robby is trying to lobby for at least a one day race in Portugal. Cross your fingers. I am sure the other teams and fans would love it....


One day would be better than nothing...

[TyBo1001]

I know there are a lot of upset racers about this from all over the world. But those who are probably impacted the most, are those who live in the small towns and villages that survive the rest of the year on the money they would make when the Dakar came through. This could be financially devastating to an entire town in the middle of nowhere Africa.

[DEZERTBOUND]

Could he nerf...?

[Alliturken]

Here's something more that can be said about the 08 Dakar cancellation, and it is on topic and non-political, just a fact: Unless major actions are taken to get this situation under control in Mauritania and N. Africa at large, they'll be waiting to disrupt it again next year '09, with even more confidence and bravado. YOU decide what that will take, knowing it ain't gonna happen just from asking them nicely.

[klaus]

I agree as it is taken as a victory by who made the threat. Any future race looks so impossible at this point.

Interesting what will happen.

A friend more informed then me told me that some of it may has to do with how much the organizers "bribe" them year after year. How much money gets exchanged guaranties the safety of the event and that this year perhaps they didnt come to terms. Land use fees. I hate to speculate when I know very little about it. Heck I couldn't even spot the nation in question on a map.

[alan4s]

I know there are a lot of upset racers about this from all over the world. But those who are probably impacted the most, are those who live in the small towns and villages that survive the rest of the year on the money they would make when the Dakar came through. This could be financially devastating to an entire town in the middle of nowhere Africa.


Here's something more that can be said about the 08 Dakar cancellation, and it is on topic and non-political, just a fact: Unless unless major actions are taken to get this situation under control in Mauritania and N. Africa at large, they'll be waiting to disrupt it again next year '09, with even more confidence and bravado. YOU decide what that will take, knowing it ain't gonna happen just from asking them nicely.

So who has the real vested interest in letting the race run? The local people and governments, that's who. All the cars, bikes, and trucks can go elsewhere to play in the sand. It's the folks who live there that really suffer the most, so it's thier problem to deal with. If they ask for help to do so, fine, let's help them. But it's not up to France, or Portugal, or the US to barge our way in and clean things up just so we can run a race there.

[BGRANT]

I know there are a lot of upset racers about this from all over the world. But those who are probably impacted the most, are those who live in the small towns and villages that survive the rest of the year on the money they would make when the Dakar came through. This could be financially devastating to an entire town in the middle of nowhere Africa.

Good point, thought about that one earlier. What about the major sponsors? How motivated will they be to pour money into this event in the future knowing that the card could be pulled at the last minute? If I had millions invested, I would want some kind of assurance that my name would be represented. I have heard that it is well over a 100K just for your average garage bike racer to do this one event. That is a huge financial blow to end up doing nothing but taking a couple of nice long plane rides. All in all I agree with the ASO if this was a safety decision, but they are in deep s@#% with the racers if it was an insurance cover up.

[BGRANT]

I agree as it is taken as a victory by who made the threat. Any future race looks so impossible at this point.

Interesting what will happen.

A friend more informed then me told me that some of it may has to do with how much the organizers "bribe" them year after year. How much money gets exchanged guaranties the safety of the event and that this year perhaps they didnt come to terms. Land use fees. I hate to speculate when I know very little about it. Heck I couldn't even spot the nation in question on a map.

Land use fees? Bribes? Sounds like Baja.

[Jack]

So with the event being cancelled there is more media coverage then it would have been if it would have continued. Maybe it will open some new eyes.

[bufeo]

... they'll be waiting to disrupt it again next year '09, with even more confidence and bravado... .

Even before all these events of the past twenty-four hours plans were underway to move the Rally to a safer environs. The name "Dakar Rally" may be a thing of the past, like Mille Miglia or Pan-American Road Race.

Us old-timers remember with nostalgia the old Watkins Glens, the Pebble Beach, the Torrey Pines, the Sebring, and, yes, even the Daytona 500. Ahhhh, those were the days.

Even today's Nürburgring isn't the same. I was there in '64 when Phil Hill set a lap-time record. That feat was monumental. The circuit is much safer now. Sterling Moss called it the "Green Hell". But things change.

Nevertheless, auto racing continues, and I suspect that in a few years (even next year), the "...?... Rally" will still take place. It may have a different locale, have a different name, a different configuration, and certainly different teams, but I'm not writing it off.

Allen R

[Icewalker]

I am surprised along with everyone else that ASO didn't have an alternate route pre-planned in just such an eventuality. So bypassing Mauritania altogether .. say via Algeria and Mali (I'm no expert so these areas could be just as bad).

What happened in 2003? The race ended in Egypt didn't it?

I'm with RG and I'm certain every other competitor - Race as far as you can go and then see what happens prior to hitting Mauritania. Or have an alternate route.

JMHO of course

BTW full list of the routes just in case anyone has forgotten

* 1979–1980: Paris—Dakar
* 1981–1988: Paris—Algiers—Dakar
* 1989: Paris—Tunis—Dakar
* 1990–1991: Paris—Tripoli—Dakar
* 1992: Paris—Cape Town
* 1993: Paris—Dakar
* 1994: Paris—Dakar—Paris
* 1995–1996: Granada—Dakar
* 1997: Dakar—Agadez—Dakar
* 1998: Paris—Granada—Dakar
* 1999: Granada—Dakar
* 2000: Dakar—Cairo
* 2001: Paris—Dakar
* 2002: Arras—Madrid—Dakar
* 2003: Marseille—Sharm el-Sheikh
* 2004: Clermont-Ferrand—Dakar
* 2005: Barcelona—Dakar
* 2006–2007, 2009: Lisbon—Dakar


Maybe it finishes in Dakar ... from a different route.

[Mongo loves hammer]

IM truly sorry the race got cancelled, for everybody involved. The Hard work by all involved, down the drain. what a waste. Having served in the millitary i Never felt safe the whole time i was in africa. I kept reaching over for my R/T hand set to call up Alpha Battery. I really missed my A2 sitting in arms reach. My Passport is stamped The Islamic Republic of Mauritainia.. now i know why.. The terrorists really hurt alot of people in their own countries, the money that race generates for them..I cant imagine. I this the end of racing in Africa i truly hope not.

[alan4s]

I am surprised along with everyone else that ASO didn't have an alternate route pre-planned in just such an eventuality. So bypassing Mauritania altogether .. say via Algeria and Mali (I'm no expert so these areas could be just as bad).

What happened in 2003? The race ended in Egypt didn't it?

I'm with RG and I'm certain every other competitor - Race as far as you can go and then see what happens prior to hitting Mauritania. Or have an alternate route.

JMHO of course

BTW full list of the routes just in case anyone has forgotten

* 1979–1980: Paris—Dakar
* 1981–1988: Paris—Algiers—Dakar
* 1989: Paris—Tunis—Dakar
* 1990–1991: Paris—Tripoli—Dakar
* 1992: Paris—Cape Town
* 1993: Paris—Dakar
* 1994: Paris—Dakar—Paris
* 1995–1996: Granada—Dakar
* 1997: Dakar—Agadez—Dakar
* 1998: Paris—Granada—Dakar
* 1999: Granada—Dakar
* 2000: Dakar—Cairo
* 2001: Paris—Dakar
* 2002: Arras—Madrid—Dakar
* 2003: Marseille—Sharm el-Sheikh
* 2004: Clermont-Ferrand—Dakar
* 2005: Barcelona—Dakar
* 2006–2007, 2009: Lisbon—Dakar


Maybe it finishes in Dakar ... from a different route.

Algieria and Mali are MUCH worse than Mauritainia - that's why they weren't part of the route at all already. As they say here in New England, "Ya cahn't get theya from here."

[ETERNITE]

It made it to the front page of msnbc.com

[Icewalker]

Algieria and Mali are MUCH worse than Mauritainia - that's why they weren't part of the route at all already. As they say here in New England, "Ya cahn't get theya from here."


Thanks .. didn't know that.

[bufeo]

...What happened in 2003? The race ended in Egypt didn't it[?]... 2003: Marseille—Sharm el-Sheikh....

That year the course went down into Spain, across to Tunisia, Libya, and east to Egypt.

Mitsu won again(ho hum) and the Tatras won the truck division...complete with bullet holes. Incidentally, that winning Tatra was a support truck in the 2007 Dakar Rally. I don't know if it's still running or not, but there are some really good stories about it.

Allen R

[Icewalker]

That year the course went down into Spain, across to Tunisia, Libya, and east to Egypt.

Mitsu won again(ho hum) and the Tatras won the truck division...complete with bullet holes. Incidentally, that winning Tatra was a support truck in the 2007 Dakar Rally. I don't know if it's still running or not, but there are some really good stories about it.

Allen R

Thanks Allen ... I didn't know about the bullet holes :eek: Well I guess that idea would be toast as well. Let's hope the St.Pete-Beijing raid is a success ... Hope Versus gets some TV coverage to make up for Dakar

[klaus]

Our friends at Marathonrally.com in Germany took some interviews with Ron and Robby after they learned about the cancellation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-NbS-b1IF8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj3_218C9bw

Word has that lots of the competitors now start to relax and go out of town for the night. No pressure. The bars of Lisbon are the real winners now.

[CDN11]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

Good post Klaus

[bufeo]

Ahhhh...Grasshopper!!!

PS...is it raining up there yet or are you in Gonzaga?

Hey Tim, sorry I missed this earlier. Too many phone calls, e-mails, faxes—you name it.

We're in Idaho enduring the snow on the ground and more on the way. With the DR cancelled, we may head down to the beach (Bufeo, NOT Gonzaga :) ) sooner than later, after a stopover in P'cott.

Depending on how things looked at Stage 11 or so, we were standing by to celebrate in Dakar. :cool:

I do think that this turn of events, e.g. the cancellation of the event, is going to have much wider reverberations than just those in the rally world. Man, as the French say, "Quelle salade!" [I chose that mild expression in keeping with K's wish to maintain decorum in this thread.]

Allen R

[CDN11]

I know there are a lot of upset racers about this from all over the world. But those who are probably impacted the most, are those who live in the small towns and villages that survive the rest of the year on the money they would make when the Dakar came through. This could be financially devastating to an entire town in the middle of nowhere Africa.

ASO has said the aid will still go to Africa Race or no Race

[El Ranas]

Is a Joke?? Damm Im in the middle of the atlantic :eek:

[alan4s]

Is a Joke?? Damm Im in the middle of the atlantic :eek:

Well, if you see the ship with the Team Dakar USA support trucks on it out there, you can tell them to take thier time now. :rolleyes:

[PMAZ7]

Judging from some of the political responses here (and I won't make it too political) I guess back bones are either over rated, or out dated. That's too bad.

[spalind]

Hey does that mean Robby will race Laughlin ?


F Laughlin...RG is better off running a real race like Parker...

[bufeo]

HOLD THE PRESSES!...

Nevermind, the "source" tells me the meeting came to nothing. :(

Allen R

[desertspeed]

I do think that this turn of events, e.g. the cancellation of the event, is going to have much wider reverberations than just those in the rally world. Man, as the French say, "Quelle salade!" [I chose that mild expression in keeping with K's wish to maintain decorum in this thread.]

Allen R[/QUOTE]

I think that this is a VERY important point- and I will try to keep this non-political. The US has long had a national policy of NOT negotiating with any kind of hostage/kidnap/terror situation, regardless of the threat. As an example, some terrorist kidnaps a US soldier and demands the release of prisoners in exchange for the soldier's release. While a policy of not giving in to that demand SUCKS for that soldier and his/her family, in the long run it will prevent more soldiers from being taken hostage if every terrorist organization knows they will never have ANY of their demands met. If we give in everytime we are blackmailed, it only encourages more blackmail.

As a side note, the kidnapping of rich people in Singapore was out of control in the 70's and 80's, because their familes preferred to just pay the ransom and keep it quiet. The police instituted a policy of freezing the kidnapped persons assets, and now there is very little kidnapping. Take away the incentive, and there is no more reason to commit the crime.

So, back to this situation. We now have encouraged terrorist groups to make threats against more events- we have now shown that that will produce results, and I guarantee that we will see an increase in the future. I am not saying that the safety of the race participants shouldn't come first, and I do not believe it is the responsibility of a race organization to stand up to terrorists. However, I do believe that this is a terrible precedent to set. I would have much preferred that the governments of the countries associated with the race come together and provide overwhelming security- this would have been a much better reaction for the long term viability of not only the Daker but other major sporting events around the world.

[PMAZ7]

I do think that this turn of events, e.g. the cancellation of the event, is going to have much wider reverberations than just those in the rally world. Man, as the French say, "Quelle salade!" [I chose that mild expression in keeping with K's wish to maintain decorum in this thread.]

Allen R

I think that this is a VERY important point- and I will try to keep this non-political. The US has long had a national policy of NOT negotiating with any kind of hostage/kidnap/terror situation, regardless of the threat. As an example, some terrorist kidnaps a US soldier and demands the release of prisoners in exchange for the soldier's release. While a policy of not giving in to that demand SUCKS for that soldier and his/her family, in the long run it will prevent more soldiers from being taken hostage if every terrorist organization knows they will never have ANY of their demands met. If we give in everytime we are blackmailed, it only encourages more blackmail.

As a side note, the kidnapping of rich people in Singapore was out of control in the 70's and 80's, because their familes preferred to just pay the ransom and keep it quiet. The police instituted a policy of freezing the kidnapped persons assets, and now there is very little kidnapping. Take away the incentive, and there is no more reason to commit the crime.

So, back to this situation. We now have encouraged terrorist groups to make threats against more events- we have now shown that that will produce results, and I guarantee that we will see an increase in the future. I am not saying that the safety of the race participants shouldn't come first, and I do not believe it is the responsibility of a race organization to stand up to terrorists. However, I do believe that this is a terrible precedent to set. I would have much preferred that the governments of the countries associated with the race come together and provide overwhelming security- this would have been a much better reaction for the long term viability of not only the Daker but other major sporting events around the world.[/QUOTE]

Very well put, and I agree 100%

[Big Hock]

F Laughlin...RG is better off running a real race like Parker...

It would be cool if they ran the Race Hummers at Parker, get a little bit of recognition for all the time and money spent for Dakar.

[Sideways]

Maybe a tangent, but I thought it related to the recent concerns over racing security.

Mexican army disarms police in town near US border
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN28510755

Mexican police killed despite army surge near U.S.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN03239168

[desertspeed]

From an AP article:

"When you are told of direct threats against the event and when the sinister name of al-Qaida is mentioned, you don't ask for details," Patrice Clerc, who heads the company that organizes the rally, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "It was enough for me to hear my government say 'beware, the danger is at a maximum.'"

Experts cautioned — as Western governments have often warned — that bowing to terror threats could encourage more violence. They said al-Qaida's North African wing had scored propaganda points as it seeks to increase its reach in the region.

"They scored a media victory without firing a shot," said Louis Caprioli, a former assistant director at France's counterintelligence agency DST. "Everybody gets the impression that they are very powerful, when they in fact represent a small number of people in this region."

Adam Raisman, senior analyst at the SITE Institute in Washington, said "the jihadist Internet community is quite happy with the closing, seeing it as a victory."

[R_TAYLOR]

Klaus- I dont think we have done anything to offend the islamic wackos except we are considererd infindels. They want you, me and my family either dead or converted to islam. If we beat them down this time, they will regain strentgh and maybe in 10-20-or a 100 years from now we will be up against the same thing.. History tells us that

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Well put.


Brown noser! :mad:

[_deleted_]

that is problly the best idea i have ever heard, a whole new terrian, with snow, mud, all kinds of weather conditions. that would be a serious race.






Wow...there goes that...gonna hurt privateers like RG and such the most (amongst the competitors) as why does Monster and other sponsors wanna funnel funds into an effort that doesn't ever take place.....Time to run a HUGE offroad event in Canada!!

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Ok I got the real low down...

I spoke to the Monster Boys and here's the deal.

RG's Hummer was next in line for tech... The ASO took one quick look at it. They all went into a back room in the tent with the head of VW and Mitsubishi a few minutes later they all came out with the overall win trophy. They handed the trophy to Robby and started taking down the tents and told everyone to go home. Afterall the ASO didn't want two blood baths on their hands...

[michael_loomis]

Ok I got the real low down...

I spoke to the Monster Boys and here's the deal.

RG's Hummer was next in line for tech... The ASO took one quick look at it. They all went into a back room in the tent with the head of VW and Mitsubishi a few minutes later they all came out with the overall win trophy. They handed the trophy to Robby and started taking down the tents and told everyone to go home. Afterall the ASO didn't want two blood baths on their hands...

talk about bringing a gun to a knife fight! lol

this really is a bummer. can you even imagine the amount of threats they will be receiving for 09? Dakar as we know it, over with. 09 will be an entirely new kind of race. obviously this is just speculation, but man, how heart breaking. why no airlift like in years past?

I'll bet that if those 4 that got killed werent french, we'd still have ourselves a rally.

[bufeo]

Ok I got the real low down...

I spoke to the Monster Boys and here's the deal...

Dang, Fly. Good to hear from you. I was getting a bit worried. :)

Allen R

[Icewalker]

that is problly the best idea i have ever heard, a whole new terrian, with snow, mud, all kinds of weather conditions. that would be a serious race.

I always thought Edmonton or say Calgary to Tuktoyaktuk during the winter would make a bitching rally raid. Not sure I'd want to be doing it on a bike. But I've done it in my Land Rover :D

[FlyHiFlyLo]

This is what they need to do... They all need to race the first few stages till they get to Mauritainia. All the competitors then drop their pants and take a big dump. Then Race back all the way to France. Then the first team to take a crap on Paris wins....

[Icewalker]

This is what they need to do... They all need to race the first few stages till they get to Mauritainia. All the competitors then drop their pants and take a big dump. Then Race back all the way to France. Then the first team to take a crap on Paris wins....

How to win friends and influence people ;)

[WickedGravityVideo]

Robyn Gordon just posted this over on RobbysUpRising:



One day would be better than nothing...



Yeah, they are all over there in one spot, ready to race -- they would be dumb not to have a week long race in Portugal. When I signed up for Robby'sUprising.com, I signed on to serve and protect RG in difficult situations, not just to celebrate his victory. This is the time for all loyal RG Uprising members to get over to Portugal to help out. I am getting in my car right now and consulting road maps. We will form a human shield around RG, we will serve and protect! We got you covered, too, Ron B! This is the time for the UPRISING! LOCK and LOAD!

[Mongo loves hammer]

Great Idea FLY...Your best yet, Except They would not see much of a diff...But they are however, going to see a big diff in there bottom line... thats just too bad.. get them all where it hurts. they want to habour crimminals let them all starve, let them eat principle... I was really wanted to see a Monster style beat down...

[Icewalker]

Great Idea FLY...Your best yet, Except They would not see much of a diff...But they are however, going to see a big diff in there bottom line... thats just too bad.. get them all where it hurts. they want to habour crimminals let them all starve, let them eat principle... I was really wanted to see a Monster style beat down...

I must be missing the point ... but what exactly is a Monster style beat down :confused:

[DEZERTBOUND]

I wonder if any good stuff for sell at the starting line?:rolleyes:

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I must be missing the point ... but what exactly is a Monster style beat down :confused:

When the last thing 570 racers see is this...

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/flyhiflylo/tailpipe.jpg

[Icewalker]

When the last thing 570 racers see is this...

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/flyhiflylo/tailpipe.jpg

Ahhh yes ... there's this old saying about finishing a race first ... first you have to finish ;)

Ahh hell we've had this discussion before. It just sucks that we didn't get a Dakar this year regardless of who was going to win or lose ... I'm just in it for the racing ... I could care less about national or cultural differences

IMHO it would of been pretty damn cool if Nasser had done it this year in the BMW ... he's pretty damn good if you ask me.

Of course being the underdog supporter I was holding out for a Bowler Nemesis win ... but hey ... stranger things have happened :cool:

[the squirrel]

Terrorism sucks no matter where it is or what the a&$holes are doing that are a part of it.:mad: I look forward to watching Dakar on tv every year and obivously the safety of the competitors, support crews and race organizers as well as making sure all equipment stays with the rightfull owners must come first.

I wish there was a better way to do things sometimes and get these problems and problem people dealt with. I really like to gunship idea someone had.:cool: That was great.

Hopefully Robby can get back to Florida to work on the testing of his cup car now.

[RGFan]

Brown noser! :mad:

Screw you Fly, he said to keep the politics out of it, that is what I was agreeing with. I have served my country, how about you?:mad: :mad: Im the one who wants to get rid of the rules for the military and let them DO THEIR JOBS, instead of having another Vietnam and watch them die. If we are going to kick their arses, then lets go and kick some arses, without having our hands tied. If you would have read all of the posts, the guy said lets keep the Conservative/Liberal BS out of this discussion PERIOD!
If you have a problem with that, then you should go over and hang out with the French......Brown Noser:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Icewalker]

Screw you Fly, he said to keep the politics out of it, that is what I was agreeing with. I have served my country, how about you?:mad: :mad:

Bingo .. There are plenty of forums for us to p1ss and moan about what happened from a political stand point. Don't know about the rest of you but I'm in it for the racing .. If we can't race there then we either figure out a way so the moron pig porking idiots won't be mad with us (that's us, we the collective) or we as competitors, fans, administrators and wacky racers (stop the pidgeon) have to find another place to go.

[Rufrider]

Screw you Fly, he said to keep the politics out of it, that is what I was agreeing with. I have served my country, how about you?:mad: :mad: Im the one who wants to get rid of the rules for the military and let them DO THEIR JOBS, instead of having another Vietnam and watch them die. If we are going to kick their arses, then lets go and kick some arses, without having our hands tied. If you would have read all of the posts, the guy said lets keep the Conservative/Liberal BS out of this discussion PERIOD!
If you have a problem with that, then I question your patriotism. Assholes like you are why he wanted to keep the politics out of it.


Watch out, I think fly thinks he is the only RG fan on the board.

[RGFan]

Sorry for the drama guys, but when somebody call me out on my political beliefs, I am going to defend them every single time.........That is why I agreed with not bringing them up in the first place

[Icewalker]

Sorry for the drama guys, but when somebody call me out on my political beliefs, I am going to defend them every single time.........That is why I agreed with not bringing them up in the first place

No drama .. and for the record I'm no RG fan ... but I do respect the guy as a pretty good racer.

And again I would add that this is the Marathon Rallies thread ... time for everyone to put the ole thinking caps on :cool: Oh alright some of us need more than thinking caps ;)







Hey who mentioned lobotomies :eek:

[R_TAYLOR]

lol- I better just be quiet, some people will never get it. Hint...... do a search on islam wanting us dead. Or go talk to them yourself and and get them to agree to be nice.

[racinkid13]

Truely saddening. I feel for everyone stuck over there. It would be nice if ASO could work something out with the privateers for next year. I tend to agree with the concensus, that while everyone suffers, they seems to have a greater suffering. I wish the best to all and hope to see them on the roster next year.

[R.Green77]

ASO should invest in some gun ships or RG could mount a 50 cal to the front of the hummer. This sucks they should turn the terrorists to glass and be done with them.

AGREED!

[151fab]

I'm truly saddened by this news as well. I hope everyone gets home safe and sound. What the heck am I gonna watch for the next two weeks now!

[RGFan]

lol- I better just be quiet, some people will never get it. Hint...... do a search on islam wanting us dead. Or go talk to them yourself and and get them to agree to be nice.

I think we have all read on why Islamic Militants/Fundamantalists wants us dead, big difference between Islam and the extremists though. I know what you are saying though, and in many minds it is a lost cause. Unfortunately there are several issues keeping us there, some think it is just oil and that just is not it. With that being said, what happened today is a prime example of why we just do not pull out. They will/are using this as a rallying cry (literally). Short of all of us slitting our throats, there is no simple solution to this. I spend several weeks a year in Saudi and the UAE on business. To be honest, they are all very nice and respectful, but then again, I am there because they want something from me. I do not know how it would be if I was there as a tourist. UAE is alot better then Saudi though. And to say I am nervous at time would be an understatement.

[Icewalker]

lol- I better just be quiet, some people will never get it. Hint...... do a search on islam wanting us dead. Or go talk to them yourself and and get them to agree to be nice.

Damn .. so that means that the nice guy down the road that has the Citgo franchise want's me dead? So the next time he invites me and the Mrs round for beers we should tell him to bite us ?

Most folks get the fact that Islam the religion has a bit of a problem. What most folks don't get is that Muslims ... are not always representative of Islam (if that makes any sense).

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Sorry for the drama guys, but when somebody call me out on my political beliefs, I am going to defend them every single time.........That is why I agreed with not bringing them up in the first place

The brown nosed comment wasn't towards the enemey... It was towards you kissing Klaus' butt... :D

[PMAZ7]

I think we have all read on why Islamic Militants/Fundamantalists wants us dead, big difference between Islam and the extremists though. I know what you are saying though, and in many minds it is a lost cause. Unfortunately there are several issues keeping us there, some think it is just oil and that just is not it. With that being said, what happened today is a prime example of why we just do not pull out. They will/are using this as a rallying cry (literally). Short of all of us slitting our throats, there is no simple solution to this. I spend several weeks a year in Saudi and the UAE on business. To be honest, they are all very nice and respectful, but then again, I am there because they want something from me. I do not know how it would be if I was there as a tourist. UAE is alot better then Saudi though. And to say I am nervous at time would be an understatement.

I think it's (the difference between extremists and "islam-ists") closer than most might think, the Koran is an almost "how to" for most Islamic people to live. If you haven't, you should give it a read sometime.

[RGFan]

I think it's (the difference between extremists and "islam-ists") closer than most might think, the Koran is an almost "how to" for most Islamic people to live. If you haven't, you should give it a read sometime.

I actually have read parts, and with my travels have done lots of reading on the topic as well unlike many who get there info from Fox or CNN.You make some good points, but saying the Koran or it's interpretation is the same is like saying the Holy Bible and it's interpretation is the same as well between Catholics, Protestants, Episcopalians, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc. Islam for the most part is a very peaceful religion, but once again, it like many religions are crafted and twisted to suit one's needs. That has been happening for thousands of years.

OK, back to racing

[FlyHiFlyLo]

This is the best interview...

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/Richard1.mp3

[RGFan]

The brown nosed comment wasn't towards the enemey... It was towards you kissing Klaus' butt... :D

Yeah Fly, Klaus was talking about not bringing politics into it, that is what I agreed with him about, that was why I stated the good post comment that you later reffered to. That is not brown nosing......That is agreeing to somebody who wanted to stay on topic, something I have gotten off of in the last hour.;)

[Icewalker]

This is the best interview...

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/Richard1.mp3

You know Richard Kaye do you ? ;) Curious minds want to know :D

[RGFan]

This is the best interview...

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/Richard1.mp3

Is it brown nosing if I tell you good radio clip?;) If so I should just change my name to brown noser. That's what I get for being a nice guy

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Is it brown nosing if I tell you good radio clip?;) If so I should just change my name to brown noser. That's what I get for being a nice guy

Yeah quit kissing my butt...

[FlyHiFlyLo]

You know Richard Kaye do you ? ;) Curious minds want to know :D

No, but I am a huge fan now....:D

[FlyHiFlyLo]

The biggest problem with pulling the plug is.... If they just started many teams would still get paid for racing.

[michael_loomis]

I think we have all read on why Islamic Militants/Fundamantalists wants us dead, big difference between Islam and the extremists though. I know what you are saying though, and in many minds it is a lost cause. Unfortunately there are several issues keeping us there, some think it is just oil and that just is not it. With that being said, what happened today is a prime example of why we just do not pull out. They will/are using this as a rallying cry (literally). Short of all of us slitting our throats, there is no simple solution to this. I spend several weeks a year in Saudi and the UAE on business. To be honest, they are all very nice and respectful, but then again, I am there because they want something from me. I do not know how it would be if I was there as a tourist. UAE is alot better then Saudi though. And to say I am nervous at time would be an understatement.

keep it on track there buddy.. and didnt this brown eye.. errr nose thing come up in the past mini? :P :P

[Icewalker]

No, but I am a huge fan now....:D

He is a pretty damn good driver .. :p

But he along with 99.999% of the folks that actually run the Dakar realize that it has nothing to do with .... Muslims and more to do with a warped ideology that revolved around an archaic religion that is in desperate need of an update ;)

[FlyHiFlyLo]

He is a pretty damn good driver .. :p

But he along with 99.999% of the folks that actually run the Dakar realize that it has nothing to do with .... Muslims and more to do with a warped ideology that revolved around an archaic religion that is in desperate need of an update ;)


We should do what I proposed in 2006...

Go over there with 10 Class one cars and 10 Oshkosh 6x6 in T-4 Two Monster school buses Painted Red, White and Blue, as one team with everyone supporting each other. Then leave a trail of Budwieser beer cans, Wonder Hamburger bun bags and Lay's potato chip bags all the way to Victory in Dakar.

[alan4s]

He is a pretty damn good driver .. :p

But he along with 99.999% of the folks that actually run the Dakar realize that it has nothing to do with .... Muslims and more to do with a warped ideology that revolved around an archaic religion that is in desperate need of an update ;)

Actually, Islam is a "newer" religion than Christianity. It's not the religion that needs updating, it's the heads of some of the radicals who use the religion to inflate thier own egos and power that needs updating. Unfortunately, it's not only the Muslim faith that is tainted by extremists who take advantage of ignorant followers - they just happen to be the most visible at the moment.

If any of you want to get a better understanding of how radical Islam evolved into what it is today, I'd recommend the book "The Looming Towers". It's a recent book, and can be found at most any book store. An interesting read.

[RGFan]

Yeah quit kissing my butt...

Keep dreaming Fly, my wiskers would chafe you anyways

[RGFan]

And in the midst of all this, we are all missing real news..........Like Britany Spears being put on a 36 hour psych admit at an LA area hospital:D

[FlyHiFlyLo]

And in the midst of all this, we are all missing real news..........Like Britany Spears being put on a 36 hour psych admit at an LA area hospital:D


OMG REALLY??? I'll be back in a hour... I have to go to the TMZ message boards for a bit...

[hangten33]

****ING TERRORISTS!!:mad: :mad:

[Doug]

A very sad day indeed. Remember the Nevada 2000? It's time for the Nevada 10,000! Or the USA 10,000. Bring all those Dakar dollars to the USA.

[R_TAYLOR]

Damn .. so that means that the nice guy down the road that has the Citgo franchise want's me dead? So the next time he invites me and the Mrs round for beers we should tell him to bite us ?

Most folks get the fact that Islam the religion has a bit of a problem. What most folks don't get is that Muslims ... are not always representative of Islam (if that makes any sense).

I know all muslims are not nutjobs,my co-rider for 4 years last name was mohamed,great guy.But if I would have had any reason to believe he was an exremist he would have been left in the middle of baja ( after he changed my flat tire of course)

[Icewalker]

I know all muslims are not nutjobs,my co-rider for 4 years last name was mohamed,great guy.But if I would have had any reason to believe he was an exremist he would have been left in the middle of baja ( after he changed my flat tire of course)

:D Sorry I think I just wet myself with laughter :cool:

You are 100% correct of course (.............. I've tipped more than a few beers (bet that pisses you mullahs off) with an islamic guy .. Korush ... :rolleyes: Yeah he normally monitors the same boards I'm on .................. ) definitely one of the folks that I would consider taking a round for :D

[Matt Kross]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.

Sorry for this one Klaus,
Maybe you should ban that Kaye racer and RG for expressing there POLITICAL views on your forum but that Kaye dude said it best. This in a political decision and that is what is wrong about this whole deal. And yes RG FAN, you are a BROWN NOSE'ER and I'll add the HIggman dude to this tage also. I don't hide behind any stupid names, My name is Matt Kross and I am educaited (not in grammer) and I have won major off-road racing events. I'm not here to call anyone out but now this terrriorist thing is effecting my life more then it should. I love that Kaye dude, the Frenchies have been wimps for years (if I need to explaine this, then you should go back to school). Stand up for what you believe in and if you look back far enough, that what the U.S. is all about. Liabillaty and insurance, give me a break, racers lost millions and more then that DREAMS, because of a threat. Innocent poeple being killed and now they CXL the best off-road race in the world (joke). Hit the button Mr. Bush I'll vote for your boyz again. No matter what happens after this are we still friends?

[Racer277]

Well maybe the Euros will quit talking trash about Indy.
They've got their own debacle now...

[Shotdsherrif]

Sorry for this one Klaus,
Maybe you should ban that Kaye racer and RG for expressing there POLITICAL views on your forum but that Kaye dude said it best. This in a political decision and that is what is wrong about this whole deal. And yes RG FAN, you are a BROWN NOSE'ER and I'll add the HIggman dude to this tage also. I don't hide behind any stupid names, My name is Matt Kross and I am educaited (not in grammer) and I have won major off-road racing events. I'm not here to call anyone out but now this terrriorist thing is effecting my life more then it should. I love that Kaye dude, the Frenchies have been wimps for years (if I need to explaine this, then you should go back to school). Stand up for what you believe in and if you look back far enough, that what the U.S. is all about. Liabillaty and insurance, give me a break, racers lost millions and more then that DREAMS, because of a threat. Innocent poeple being killed and now they CXL the best off-road race in the world (joke). Hit the button Mr. Bush I'll vote for your boyz again. No matter what happens after this are we still friends?


That's all fine and well Matt. But just remember that there are people, business owners and regular enthusiasts in Mauritania (and throughout the Islamic world unfortunately) that feel the EXACT same way you do. So whatever it is you're wanting to "hit the button" on, I just hope you stop and actually think about it for a second. What is it exactly, you are trying to say ... ???

You don't sound dumb, bro. So just think about it.

[Matt Kross]

That's all fine and well Matt. But just remember that there are people, business owners and regular enthusiasts in Mauritania (and throughout the Islamic world unfortunately) that feel the EXACT same way you do. So whatever it is you're wanting to "hit the button" on, I just hope you stop and actually think about it for a second. What is it exactly, you are trying to say ... ???

You don't sound dumb, bro. So just think about it.

Listen, when I say "hit the button", I don't mean it. what I really mean is do what ever it takes to rid the world of this terrorist problem now, becasue it is only going to get bigger (like the issues in Mexico) and everyone in this forum should not take things literlly ( i hate spelling). Still friends?

[jamminjeff10]

hmmmmmm. VW came to Baja this year? did they know something we don't??? How many VW's are sold in Mauritania? Do they give a S?@t!

I am sad for this, and the competitors, this is a sad day for Off Road.

We have tree huggers shutting us down, and they have terrorists. Is there a difference?

Maybe green peace and the center for bio diversity is funding Al Queda?

Did France forget to deliver the cash for the oil again?

I think there should be a United Nations investigation!

Sorry, just trying to add some humor. THIS SUCKS!

[pwcfan]

Matt, keep your chin up...........maybe, just maybe, you will see your neighbors from the "keys/Parker" in Parker for the race !!!!......Rob is your neighbor, although there is some people from last years "camping trip" that wont admit to it, would love to see RGM and crew tear it up in Parker.....I for one will bring my "posse" from So.O.C. to parker if it happens......."in the middle of the night, on a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair" etc...

[Shotdsherrif]

"Still friends?" ... That was never in question.

I'm just saying "whatever it takes" might actually be a soft-pedal on the military bravado. I think that's part of what klaus was trying to get across before.

For example in Iran. We (the USA) actually took out their democratically elected president back in 1953. How would you feel if the Iranians had conspired (and succeeded) in having Eisenhower removed from office back then ...??? So the truth about the Iranian people today, is that they do NOT like their government. But they DON'T want the US trying to "help" them get rid of it either. Get it?

[Matt Kross]

"Still friends?" ... That was never in question.

I'm just saying "whatever it takes" might actually be a soft-pedal on the military bravado. I think that's part of what klaus was trying to get across before.

For example in Iran. We (the USA) actually took out their democratically elected president back in 1953. How would you feel if the Iranians had conspired (and succeeded) in having Eisenhower removed from office back then ...??? So the truth about the Iranian people today, is that they do NOT like their government. But they DON'T want the US trying to "help" them get rid of it either. Get it?

Dude, your name is "shot the sherrif". You must agree that violence has it's place in problem solving. Kind of like the time I was playing basketball at the park and some knucklhead kept calling fouls and talking trash (and we couldn't even play) so I KO'ed the fool and the game went on.

[jamminjeff10]

But they DON'T want the US trying to "help" them get rid of it either. Get it?

How do you know?

There is no "real" democratic elections over there. Do the women get to vote? Can you vote if you are gay?

Come on dude, these people (Iran) are suppressed in a "Dictatorship."

Do you think this (terrorism) is going to go away? Oh, maybe diplomacy will work. That's why they drove a couple planes into the Twinn Towers? Oh, yeah, that never happened, it was a conspiracy by George Bush right?

The bottom line is that radical muslims want everyone to think thier way or die. Just like us (Judeo Christian Americans), think our way or die.

Now pick your side.

(by the way, i dont think we are perfect in everything we do in the world, but it is a darn good coincidence that every time we beat the crap out of our enemy we dont hear from them for a while - i.e. WWI, WWII, Germany, Japan, cold war Russia) just to name a few)

[pwcfan]

ahh............too many Pacifico's tonite............."you can check in, but you can never check out" !!!....have you ever driven down Ca. 95 from Blythe to Parker, on a Friday,, Midnite, in Feb, in a minivan, full of 8 to 12 year olds, WHO START SINGING THIS SONG !!!! to see the race the next day !!!!.....Ivan signs a bunch of hats that Rob and his mom have passed out ???.....the early 90's.................Thanx Rob and Ivan......I am alwalys a fan and helper......Rob and his peeps have always been good to me............NO, I do not want to go to dinner in Avalon after the L.B. Grand Prix......I love TRANS AM!!!!.......I have spent time with Joe Walsh also.....I love the smell of race fuel in the AM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's to seeing Rob, and maybe Ronn in Parker..............Love the old times in Laughlin, but is just is'nt the same..............Parker RULES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pwcfan]

Dude, your name is "shot the sherrif". You must agree that violence has it's place in problem solving. Kind of like the time I was playing basketball at the park and some knucklhead kept calling fouls and talking trash (and we couldn't even play) so I KO'ed the fool and the game went on.

Slow Hand ?

[FlyHiFlyLo]

We only need to hit the button once every 40 years... This smart bomb crap has ruined a good old fashion USA azzwhoop'n!

[pwcfan]

FLY, I like you have no life.......like the smell of nitro/racegas/methanol in the am ?
Whoop Ass............

[xjchaser]

All the bologna aside this is a sad day for our world as we know it today. It's so sad that somebodys interpitation of God has to make simple wonderful things get ugly. I pray for us all that someday we can get back to the way it used to be. Let them race and keep all the differences in politics and religon away from this, can't we all just agree to disagree and move on.

[pwcfan]

here here XJCHASER......life on earth is different now....until the U.S. stops medling in everybody elses's stuff and the Religious zelouts in the east stop killin' each other, which has been going on for 1000's of years, it is what it is, and "was"......The Baja peninsula is different now also.......bummer.......not to be the "half empty glass" now, but we have to make do with what we have folks.

Baja has "bad cops" and what not.....alot of carnage this Nov. '07.....

Anybody got any suggetions ?

[Brock_Beeson]

if canceling dakar saved 1 life.. its worth all the money lost.

[pwcfan]

Like everyone else here, I was looking forward to kicking off my 2008 racing season with "Dakar".

I personally have put in alot of blood, sweat and tears in the "Dakar" with RGM. Not as much as some, and more than others. Gladly. For a common cause, to see the US prevail.......maybe not the best of intentions, according to the "bad guys", who HATE the "WEST" !

Very dissapointing.....it is what it is.....a political thing now......and a religious thing....not my cup of tea......I LOVE RACING!!!

I hope the DAKAR lives..........I hope "BAJA" live also.

GAS ON !!!

[Shotdsherrif]

Dude, your name is "shot the sherrif". You must agree that violence has it's place in problem solving. Kind of like the time I was playing basketball at the park and some knucklhead kept calling fouls and talking trash (and we couldn't even play) so I KO'ed the fool and the game went on.

Yeah, I hear you ... believe me, I'm no pacifist. If I thought terrorism could be solved with a blow torch and a pair of pliers, I'd be at Home Depot right now. There's a tongue in cheek in what a lot of us are saying. Like Mr. Don Henley on nitrous up there. What's he smokin? Give me some of that.

I'm just saying, at least in a place like Iran, eventually, their own people will resolve this for their own country in a way that our boys in the service won't be able to. That's all! Not that we shouldn't remind what the unfortunate alternative might be though.

And the sad thing is that a beautiful sport has to suffer. That's what today is about. It is a day of mourning. Lets just leave it at that.

Here's to RG makin it to Parker!

[Hog Wild]

if canceling dakar saved 1 life.. its worth all the money lost.So, should B1K be canceled too?

[Racicali]

So, should B1K be canceled too?

hey hey awebo ke noooo

hell no!!!!!!!!!!

[pwcfan]

Sherrif..............THAT'S A BIG 10-4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they have been killin' each other for centuries.....WE CANT FIX THAT !!...sorry....you pegged it...........but the bad thing is they hold US (U.S.) responsible.....not gonna change any time soon...............love that Henley, except he is a liberal !!!!....I'm gone to Parker........."There's a hole in the world tonight" !!!..."all the fighting over who is annoighted".....hmmmmm...."There is a hole in the world tonight"........listen to DH.....hmmmmm.........."A hole in the world tommorow"....is that what you want ?

[pwcfan]

Damn Hog..........I know alot of guys who will not go down there now.....the place is GONZO !!!!....If they move to RockY Point, or San Felipe, the bad guys will come too....the have & have nots will continue to wrestle.

[dustyhusky]

Sad news.

I think the idea of racing from Europe to Dakar is not going to happen again for several years-if ever. The danger in Algeria, Mali, Mauritania, is now understood. Qaeda in Morocco is also well known. Qaeda will see this a victory. A symbolic throwing the infidel out of muslim lands.

I truly hope ASO is able to pick up the pieces after this and re-invent the rally.

With the right wing government in France, its time to return to Paris.

Paris to Libya to the Pyramids for '09?
Just an idea.

My condolences to all the privateers who worked so hard and then ran into this crap.
Heartbreaking.

[Vtr_Racing]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.
Maybe not a magic bullet, but neither is going after the terrorist with guns and killing people in the way. That is a good formula to create more terrorists. Watch the news over the last x years and that is what has happened. Watch it from different sources to bypass the agenda that comes with news.


We may both disagree on politics but this thread was about the Dakar getting canceled due to threats of violence. How does that affect the competitors? Do they feel safe? Is there a workaround the A.S.O. can find? Lets talk about that.

Solve world peace in the Whatever forum. Thank you.
Respectfully disaggree. Its very relevent to what has happened over there. Directly and indirectly. You just may not see it that way. It blows that the rally has been cancelled.

[RGFan]

Sorry for this one Klaus,
Maybe you should ban that Kaye racer and RG for expressing there POLITICAL views on your forum but that Kaye dude said it best. This in a political decision and that is what is wrong about this whole deal. And yes RG FAN, you are a BROWN NOSE'ER and I'll add the HIggman dude to this tage also. I don't hide behind any stupid names, My name is Matt Kross and I am educaited (not in grammer) and I have won major off-road racing events. I'm not here to call anyone out but now this terrriorist thing is effecting my life more then it should. I love that Kaye dude, the Frenchies have been wimps for years (if I need to explaine this, then you should go back to school). Stand up for what you believe in and if you look back far enough, that what the U.S. is all about. Liabillaty and insurance, give me a break, racers lost millions and more then that DREAMS, because of a threat. Innocent poeple being killed and now they CXL the best off-road race in the world (joke). Hit the button Mr. Bush I'll vote for your boyz again. No matter what happens after this are we still friends?

Holy crap, do people not read? This is a political issue, but should it really be handled in a racing forum? Politics seems to ruin everything everytime in these forums, much like this topic. We all know that Al Queda ruined this race. Why turn it into a left/right thing. That is all I agreed with one more time concerning Klaus. And as far as that Higman guy, he was a member of Team Dakar USA last year.

As far as you being educated, I am educated also (courtesy of my GI Bill, but what the hell does that have to do with anything), I have served my country and have probably been more affected directly by Al Queda then you have in your life. Nobody wants terrorism to be dealt with more harshly then I do. I have done something about terrorism in my life, have you? If I am a brown noser for not wanting to talk about politics on a racing forum, which I have been baited into doing anyways,then you are a hipocrit for talking tough about the issue but not having the nuts to do anything about it, like so many others. And until you do something about it (Like going down to your local recruiter's office) then do not pass judgement on me.

[PackMule]

This is the best interview...

http://cdn.libsyn.com/rallyraidio/Richard1.mp3



Glad you enjoyed it, Fly. :cool:


If you haven't already, you may like these, too: http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/DavePost2.mp3

http://media.libsyn.com/media/rallyraidio/StanPost1.mp3

[Matt Kross]

All right, no more politics but thanks to all who joined in to get my mind working and get me fired up. It's nice to see a great discussion involving racing, war, politics, dead singers, Mexico and contaband. Only on RDC, it helped me deal with the frustration of this hole thing. Dudes, thanks for the laughs and RG FAN much respect to you for standing up for yourself and OUR COUNTRY. When over 200 RDC'iets join in, it's success. Later, I have to go think of ways to get faster.

[OttoTeller]

Right on MK.

RGFan-I salute and yield to you and all service men and women...
its all good here...

Bottom line-as my buddy Marvin Martin said:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=589634

"If it was 4 American or Japanese tourists that were killed in Mauritania over Christmas- we would probably be watching the start of the race."

[desertbull]

Please watch your foul language on this forum.

My take on this is to ask yourself what makes one to be a terrorist in the first place? What did we do to piss them off? Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.

I agree with you that this is not the place for politics, but when the Superbowl of Desert Racing is cancelled because of politics it has to mix to a certain degree and there will be some KROSS over...no pun intended Matt. But IMHO opinion you NAILED it.

Klaus - What I disagree with you about is your terrorist strategy. Plain and simple they need to be eliminated before they eliminate MORE of us.

IMHO you utilized this exact same strategy (ELIMINATION) when RDC dealt with the RDC Terrorist...MO (He was no doubt the most prolific terrorist in the history of RDC coming after you in multiple attacks, both personal and business related.

Did you ask yourself what makes MO to be an RDC terrorist in the first place?

How did we do to piss MO off?

Then fix that and you have no more terrorist.

And the fix that you came up with was ELIMINATION...

Different scales yes...but IMHO its the same-same.

If the terrorist are eliminated and/or THEY realize that WE will fight back and the fight is meaningful, they will retreat and pop up there head another day, but we must be ready to fight again.

And they will think twice about terrorizing..and perhaps the Rally would go on.

They have scored a magnificent VICTORY in their world by the ASO cancelling the Rally.

The magnitude of this tragedy will reverberate through desert racing for many seasons to come.

[Phil@racetheworld.net]

My own opinion for those who think that the terrorists/perpetrators have won something

The terrorists didn't win ****. In their infinately moronic stupidity, they deprived a seriously hurting nation of a very large income from the DAKAR. In a nation who's past concern with Al Queda and their antics might have been next to nill, they've now opened a few eyes and gotten the fence setters to wonder what the hell good the terrorists have done for them. Like any bad road show, the terrorists act will be closed down eventually due to lack of interest, poor performance and inability to perform stated goals.
Phil(also an ex U.S of A. serviceman and dam *&%^$#@ PROUD of it.)

[kenaroo]

Remember this when you go to vote for your next President. G. Bush has been trying to eliminate the terrorist and is getting killed, politically, for it. If the Democrates get office the terrorist will have no one to fear and will then grow. It's not a U.S. problem, it's the world's problem. If you run into a Democrate soon, slap him, and say " quit being a bi%&@ and fight for your freedom". God bless our leaders and soldiers for fighting for what is right and FU** the politics. Godspeed Pat Tillman and all your friends.

This really pisses me off.


Nice.. need to pull your head out of Bush and Cheney's ass. Yes... we need to fight terroist.. but if that's what the Bush admin is doing... why the hell did they go to Iraq?
Look it up, read, and know what your talking about. There was no AQ before we invaded Iraq.. just a sudistic ruler who killed as a means of controlling his country. Remember the reason they went in "weapons of mass distruction" My Ass.. more like helping control the oil production while fighting our enemies.

Now.. look at where most of the AQ is head quarted and training. All this is Politics as usual.. and if you think your going to slap this Democrat upside the head. Just try...

I so tired of Republicans talking **** like this... Get off you high horse of rightiousness.

[Shotdsherrif]

Nice.. need to pull your head out of Bush and Cheney's ass. Yes... we need to fight terroist.. but if that's what the Bush admin is doing... why the hell did they go to Iraq?
Look it up, read, and know what your talking about. There was no AQ before we invaded Iraq.. just a sudistic ruler who killed as a means of controlling his country. Remember the reason they went in "weapons of mass distruction" My Ass.. more like helping control the oil production while fighting our enemies.

Now.. look at where most of the AQ is head quarted and training. All this is Politics as usual.. and if you think your going to slap this Democrat upside the head. Just try...

I so tired of Republicans talking **** like this... Get off you high horse of rightiousness.

I can't say that I agree with you here. I'm neither a Dem or a Rep when it comes to this issue ... I'm just an American. I don't beleive we have any reason to be divided over this.

But I think it bears pointing out that Pat Tillman happened to be VERY much against the war in Iraq and was very vocal about it around his unit in Aphganistan ... He was also killed with 3 quick bullets to the head in what has been ruled as a 'friendly fire incident' by the US Army. The exact circumstances and those responsible have still not been officially verified.

But like I said, I do not believe we should be fighting each other over this.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

Nice.. need to pull your head out of Bush and Cheney's ass. Yes... we need to fight terroist.. but if that's what the Bush admin is doing... why the hell did they go to Iraq?
Look it up, read, and know what your talking about. There was no AQ before we invaded Iraq.. just a sudistic ruler who killed as a means of controlling his country. Remember the reason they went in "weapons of mass distruction" My Ass.. more like helping control the oil production while fighting our enemies.

Now.. look at where most of the AQ is head quarted and training. All this is Politics as usual.. and if you think your going to slap this Democrat upside the head. Just try...

I so tired of Republicans talking **** like this... Get off you high horse of rightiousness.

Yer a donkey. "Terrorists and those who support them" Nuff said

[FlyHiFlyLo]

He was also killed with 3 quick bullets to the head in what has been ruled as a 'friendly fire incident' by the US Army.

Thats what happens when you squeez an M-16... It's called a 3rd burst.

[Matt Kross]

Damit, I tried to leave peacefully now some softy is calling me out. I can't get into a debate about REP and DEMS or Bush's right or wrongs but I do know I can state my opinion and watch the REAL off-road racers back me. I must leave now because a Laughlin Video has turned into a "how to raise your kids not to be homos" discussion on a desert racing thread and maybe if I can bait them, we can turn it into if the Tiger was right in eating that Vegas Sigfreid or Roy dude. Peace out.

[bufeo]

... There was no AQ before we invaded Iraq.....

I think you're incorrect here. I believe AQ was started in '88 or '89, pre-Iraq invasion.

There are many like me who think that the war in Iraq is wasting lives and time. Afghanistan and Pakistan are where are efforts should be right now, and I don't think that makes me a supporter of terrorism. You'd have to know my past to know how far from the truth that would be. Fighting terrorism is far more complicated that black/white, and it most certainly does not mean turning a population to "glass". That knee-jerk reaction is revolting.

I find some hope in Sec. Gates recent approach in Djibouti. If that focus (building hospitals, schools; training regional forces; ensuring safe water supplies) can be applied in places like Afghanistan it will go a long way to drying up the source of manpower in AQ and other terrorist orgs.

DISCLAIMER: Naturally, all the above is just my own opinion.

Wow, this thread has really strayed...or has it? :confused:

BTW, in the "For-What-It's-Worth-Department" (which is probably miniscule), I'm a registered Republican but vote with my brain and not party affiliation.

We (the public) may learn about all the behind-the-scenes deliberations of the ASO in their decision to cancel the DR, but I doubt it. My hunch, based on my former life, is that much of the info will be classified. I don't mean here Top Secret Gov Classified, but cloak-room business type. I've had experience with both types.

We'll learn what we "need to know" and little else.

For right now, I'm disappointed and going through some kind of DR withdrawal. I'll take the maps off the wall, dismantle the two extra PCs in place, and wipe out a few of the hyperlinks.

Wait'l next year.

Allen R

[randy s]

Nice.. need to pull your head out of Bush and Cheney's ass. Yes... we need to fight terroist.. but if that's what the Bush admin is doing... why the hell did they go to Iraq?
Look it up, read, and know what your talking about. There was no AQ before we invaded Iraq.. just a sudistic ruler who killed as a means of controlling his country. Remember the reason they went in "weapons of mass distruction" My Ass.. more like helping control the oil production while fighting our enemies.

Now.. look at where most of the AQ is head quarted and training. All this is Politics as usual.. and if you think your going to slap this Democrat upside the head. Just try...

I so tired of Republicans talking **** like this... Get off you high horse of rightiousness.

i'm not a democrat [ind], but i agree with everything you said. what's it going to take to show folks that this bunch in charge are just plain political mafia. completely without one ounce of morality between them. it's fine to be a republican, but to blindly follow these guys and give them carte blanch because they call themselves republicans or conservatives is moronic. 70% of americans have had enough. you can't fight terror by bombing civilian populations into oblivion. this so called war on terror needs to be directed at the people who do the crimes with small groups of very specialized people. not the wholesale destruction of nations. the jews handled the massacre at the olympics perfectly. hunt em' down. one by one, then ruin their day. this cancellation has everyones emotions running high. unfortunately, there will be no quick fix. but taking an agressive [bomb em' all] approach is the very reason this rally was cancelled to start with. ron paul is right. get the hell out of the region, stay home and tend to our own needs. we have alot of em'. then maybe we can get back to racing abroad.

[dfmcse]

SHUT UP!!!! already with the politics!!! I don't care if you're a DEMOCRAT or a REPUBLICAN. SHUT UP!!!!

I want them to run a 15 day 6000 mile RALLY!!!!

Ron Paul, GW, AG, HC, BO, MH, JM, or even MR are not going to do a thing about Dakar. They don't even know it exist, and don't care to know. And BTW don't think any of those folks are going to improve your situation, cause it's on you. They are only going to make things worse for you and better for themselves.

Yeah . .. I'm sick of politics.

However, don't take the above to mean I'm not involved in the process. I vote and I'm for less government involvement in my life and my business. Anybody that thinks that government is the answer is delusional. GAS ON!!

[JD Durfey]

It Reeeeaaaallllyyyyy Sucks The Big One That They Aren't Racing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bestinaz]

I agree 100% Matt.

Its not rep or dem its right or wrong and Liberalism is a mental disorder

[Alliturken]

I agree 100% Matt.

Its not rep or dem its right or wrong and Liberalism is a mental disorder

Here here.

Reducing it to down party affiliation is moronic....like Hatfields vs. McCoys.

[kenaroo]

All politics aside.

what I think we can all agree on is that we love riding, racing and playing in the desert.

let's all come together as brothers to help protect our sport, and riding areas.

Let's not let these terrorist/drug cartels etc. affect our ablitiy to enjoy our sport.

[Offspring]

Judging from some of the political responses here (and I won't make it too political) I guess back bones are either over rated, or out dated. That's too bad.

I have thought the same for sometime.:mad:

[desertbull]

All politics aside.

what I think we can all agree on is that we love riding, racing and playing in the desert.

let's all come together as brothers to help protect our sport, and riding areas.

Let's not let these terrorist/drug cartels etc. affect our ablitiy to enjoy our sport.

Good post, but here's the enevitable BUT...

The al Qaida Terrorist HAVE severely effected our ability to enjoy our sport by threatening the ASO. Hence, the Superbowl of desert racing is null.

If we (collectively) do not deal with the problem and think its going to go away it will not.

In the New Hamphire Presidential debates televised Saturday night each one of the presidential candidates agreed that the al Qaida Terrorist are "Public Enemey # 1" and they WOULD attack them directly...every single one of the Democrats said they would go after al Qaida in the countries they were operating in.

Anything less than elimination of terrorist is a joke...of course this is only my opinion.. :)

Hopefully Turbo's running the T4 at the Baja 500...gotta love those big azz trucks!

[Offspring]

Screw you Fly, he said to keep the politics out of it, that is what I was agreeing with. I have served my country, how about you?:mad: :mad: Im the one who wants to get rid of the rules for the military and let them DO THEIR JOBS, instead of having another Vietnam and watch them die. If we are going to kick their arses, then lets go and kick some arses, without having our hands tied. If you would have read all of the posts, the guy said lets keep the Conservative/Liberal BS out of this discussion PERIOD!
If you have a problem with that, then you should go over and hang out with the French......Brown Noser:mad: :mad: :mad:

Great another post that turns into a lecture

[Offspring]

if canceling dakar saved 1 life.. its worth all the money lost.

Hey they died last year, the year before and the years before that, guess it should have never started...

[WickedGravityVideo]

GEEZ -- now this is really depressing -- turn on the TV and Dakar 2008 coverage is on VS channel right now! THey are showing the show from last year with a brief subtitle at the start, indicating there is no Dakar 2008. Then there is a nice clip and soundbite of Chris Blais doing what he does -- artistry on a moto! How depressing!

[big oly P.J]

Yeah highlights from last years rally are on this whole week.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

The Punk wrote a story about his deal with RGM...

http://robbygordon.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1646874%3ABlogPost%3A21770

[jamminjeff10]

New Spec class (and the only class) announced for the 2009 Dakar Rally...

All teams will be required to race identically prepared M1 Abrahms Tanks. A true test of man and machine against ALL elements of nature!

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I say for 2009 they add the gunner position... And you get 5 minutes knocked off for every raghead ear strung up to your rearview mirror at the finish of the stage.

[dfmcse]

I say for 2009 they add the gunner position... And you get 5 minutes knocked off for every raghead ear strung up to your rearview mirror at the finish of the stage.

Fly, would it have to be the whole ear, or do you lose points for partials? I'm thinking I'd want to use the mini gun with exploding projectiles.

Several models to chose from at Monty's http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm

[NIKAL]

Interview with RG at the Daytona testing. RG tells it like it is, no B.S. and he is still pissed!

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/cup/01/07/rgordon.dakar.rally.canceled/