Dakar 2008: Destroyed dreams and open questions.

[klaus]

Opinions about the cancellation of the Dakar 2008 cover a wide range from understandable to desaster. While a few usually bigger teams issue polite and politically correct statements of understanding and respect for the A.S.O.'s decision most of the Dakar participants are thrown into very personal fiascos by the current events......[MORE - read the entire article at MarathonRallye.com] (http://www.marathonrally.com/news/dakar_2008_destroyed_dreams_and_open_questions.874 1.0.html)

[Ferrari333SP]

I still agree with what the ASO did.

[klaus]

I find it crazy what the MR article said. At least one team proceeded to run the Dakar on their own as an exhibition run?

"...Even more amazingly some racers left heading on their own wheels to Dakar. In their own private journey and without the help of the official organisation. A motorcycle team from Holland is planning to travel on their own "if the A.S.O. isn't able to do so". ..."

[bufeo]

And Lavigne's response to Robby Gordon's suggestion/question:

"Completely not understood by most of the Rally participants is the reason for the total cancellation instead of fulfilling the promises given to racers, spectators, fans and sponsors by rearranging the event. Robby Gordon from Team Dakar USA spoke out of the heart of everyone when he asked 'I understand that you cannot put peoples' lives at risk but obviously Portugal welcomes us and we don't have any problems here in Lisbon. Why not at least race here on the specials where it is safe. I mean - there is solutions and to cancel it is not a solution.'

Etienne Lavigne's answer to the question why the race did not at least go into Marocco is leaving more questions than it answers. Lavigned stated "Because we organize great events and not fiascos. A course of 4 days in Africa is not our business".

Talk about a non-answer. Maybe Lavigne has been taking lessons from politicians.

Allen R

On edit: I hope everyone interested reads the entire article. It shows the broad impact of the cancellation and the ramifications far below the big factory sponsors.

If there were any improprieties in the deliberations and "Der Spiegel" gets involved, Katie bar the door.

[Kartman]

I find it crazy what the MR article said. At least one team proceeded to run the Dakar on their own as an exhibition run?

"...Even more amazingly some racers left heading on their own wheels to Dakar. In their own private journey and without the help of the official organisation. A motorcycle team from Holland is planning to travel on their own "if the A.S.O. isn't able to do so". ..."

Very ballsy move, those guys are rad, and perhaps a little nutty.

[450grl]

Very interesting article - thanks for posting it!

[dustyhusky]

Destroyed dreams...

In '05 i missed the start of the rally. A last minute logistical hang up kept my bike from getting to Spain in time. It was just crushing.

But ASO was cool about it. They rolled my entry fee into the '07 event. I was actually out very little in terms of money invested. While i lost time and momentum and all that, i didnt fail to reach the start of the rally-it just took longer to realize.

I think it will be the same for nearly all the entries in this situation. Their vehicles, spares, support system and all that will be largely intact. They will loose some hotel and airfare and related costs, but its not that bad.

The hardest part will simply be re-focusing, and that will take some time. Sometime around easter guys will go out in the garage and start kicking the tires...

Its how one rebounds after something like this that best defines character. I imagine most will be at the starting line of whatever the new ASO rally is called.

As for open questions:
The option of a mini-rally in europe and Morocco seems at first like a plausable idea. But how hard would it have been for Qaeda in Mauritania to take a bus up to Morocco and attack it? Its now a 12 hour bus ride on paved roads. Not very hard to do. Also--there have been repeated qaeda attacks in the kingdom recently. Throw in the bombings in Algeria last week...the whole Maghreb/North Africa is off limits.
Running 2 short stages in Portugal just doesnt cut the mustard. Most of the entries are europeans and for them its no big deal to drive thru the Portuguese oak trees for a couple hours.

Klaus not arguing with ya. Just adding some perspective.

[rebel33]

No real sport can take place at places and times where there is no goodwill. This cancellation is very sad, it throws back another time where international events were cancelled - the olympic games that werent in 1940 and 1944.

[michael_loomis]

the problem now as I see it:

no matter where the "Dakar" or "_____" rally races from here on out.. It will always be subject to stern terrorist threat. Rather than work around the hot spots, they just killed the entire rally. You've got to be on a good one to think that the threats will back off now, and I dont see the ASO putting there foot down and overlooking future threats. I still believe they'd be racing today if the tourists who lost there lives werent french. Are they still bitter that its not called Paris-Dakar ??

[spalind]

As for open questions:
The option of a mini-rally in europe and Morocco seems at first like a plausable idea. But how hard would it have been for Qaeda in Mauritania to take a bus up to Morocco and attack it? Its now a 12 hour bus ride on paved roads. Not very hard to do. Also--there have been repeated qaeda attacks in the kingdom recently. Throw in the bombings in Algeria last week...the whole Maghreb/North Africa is off limits.
Running 2 short stages in Portugal just doesnt cut the mustard. Most of the entries are europeans and for them its no big deal to drive thru the Portuguese oak trees for a couple hours.

Klaus not arguing with ya. Just adding some perspective.

I agree completely...even Morocco has had its terrorist attacks in the past few years and the groups in Algeria are no joke--we are talking about people who carve up whole groups of villagers with chainsaws. And don't forget...Spain and Europe in general are not exactly immune to attacks either--Spain train bombings, London subway, assassination of Van Gogh in Belgium (Denmark?), and you can go as far back as the Sarajevo Olympics for examples of Islamic terrorists targeting sporting events in Europe.....Bottom line is...as we've said over here...if they REALLY want to get you, they will...you can make all the precautions you want but you have to be perfect EVERY time while they only have to get it right once...I think a one year hiatus ('08) and then return to the same concept with the race only running through countries that can provide all reasonable security--army/police, etc...This will require a refocus by the ASO on security measures all kinds both internally and externally and may require some changes--I can see it becoming more of a "marked course" of a race like the 1000 to cut down on the size of the land that competitors are spread out over and things of that nature but to CEASE running the race all together sets an EXTREMELY bad example--Are you going to cancel all Olympics? Super Bowls? World Cups? because there is a terrorist threat?? No, you make the necessary preparations /precautions and move forward...'08 can serve as a wake up call that the ASO and host countries need to do more if they are to continue with the race and reap the benefits of business/exposure that the race brings...If they decide to just end the race, throw up their hands and say "Thats it, we can't do it, we give up" then racers are a lot less dogged and resourceful than I would have ever imagined...Someone, or some group of someones like RG, Schlesser and Miller need to step up and say "F the Islamic terrorists, we're gonna get this done..."

[BGRANT]

This just opened the door for the terrorists to threaten the Tour de France. I am interested to see what millions of French men in tight shorts with loaves of French bread will do if the ASO cancels that at the last minute.
All joking aside, as the above post mentioned, where does it stop. The Olympics?

[cmorley]

bgrant that is a good point!!! where does it stop??

[Alliturken]

It won't stop until the perpetrators of the madness are eliminated. Dakar in '09 depends on it.

It's amazing to think that for the relatively small price of a few million dollars, a private security firm could have done what the Mauritanian and Moroccan governments couldn't/wouldn't to solve this problem, and offer adequate security. (By comparision VW for example spends what...something like $400,000,000 on their total Rally Raid program?) Looks like the local Al-Qaeda affiliate behind the threats is a very small one, possibly only a handful, and not so well armed. But it takes the will to make that kind of decision, which apparently the local gov'ts nor the ASO have.

ASO comments are pretty interesting in a lot of ways: "....we don't organize fiascos. That's not our business." The Tour de France which they also run (mentioned above) has also been a pretty big fiasco for the last two years. And at the very least this Dakar fiasco is partially the result of some very incomplete planning. Still, I am somewhat sympathetic, because the root problem are the Al-Qaeda gang and the local gov't failure to control them. I'm guessing they are sitting around having a great laugh right about now.

You've really got to feel for guys like Gache and all the privateers especially. Easy to feel their pain reading the above article. Some will probably go broke from this and lose their sponsors for good. Hopefully some sponsors will hang in there and stick with them, but it's tough on them too. No race, no exposure, no deal.

[Ferrari333SP]

Since when was the ASO going to cancel the rally forever? How about never?? It's going to be back in 2009, no question.

VW's budget being $400,000,000?? Are you joking? Only a few F1 teams spend upwards of that much on their total programs. Maybe overall since the program has started its cost that much, but not every year, with only a few rallies taking place throughout the year. They pretty much need only to refine the race Toureg these days.


Also, since when did the monetary losses of the privateers become more important than their lives, and the lives of the other riders? There is absolutely no way a private security firm could have secured the lives of all the participants and personel associated with this rally. It is simply too large of a rally to be secured. Simple as that. And making an assessement on the size of Al-Queda is unfounded, mainly because we just can't determine the exact size. They blend in so well that it is almost impossible to really tell what their size is. Maybe if those tourists weren't French, we would still have this rally, but who are you to say? You have no idea what goes on in the heads of the "terrorists." They were in Mauritania as well as Morocco, where the majority of the rally was based. Yes they should have had a contingency plan for back up, but when the threats are coming from those countries, what else is there to do? The ASO can't plan and make out a completely new route through different countries in the region year to year; it's just impossible. It takes long enough to plan one route, let alone make a 2nd route.

I feel the privateers pain; wasteful use of money, no race, loss of sponsors, everything. But when the lives of the riders and personel of the rally are threatened, you DO NOT F*** around and go ahead with it, hoping for the best. Stopping to change some tires, Robby Gordon could have been killed. Some of the VW, Mitsu, BMW guys could have been killed. What about them? Don't you feel for them? Everybody was affected by this; of course privateers more so. A super shortened rally in Portugal was simply not possible. Way too short. If I was a privateer, I would be pissed as f*** that I lost all this money and potential sponsors, but hey, I'm still alive, and that is all that matters. You can't assume the ASO didn't think of everything everybody was standing to lose by canceling. They knew it, but messing around with threats was not an option. The ASO was absolutely 100% correct in their decision, and I am all confident there will be a rally in 2009. Count on it.

This rally is just a race. The ASO heads it. Money is on the line, but lives should not be. Their #1 priority is the protect the lives of everybody involved with the rally. End of story. For the future, they will provide a different route through different countries, and will provide adequate security measures, based on what happened this year.

Bring on the Trans Orientale rally this year, and the Dakar in some different form next year.

[derco]

Hello.

Like i told in one of my last post's i was at the starting point in the day 3 and 4. I leaved Lisbon and 12H of friday, so a litle bit earlier of the official announcement of the end of the rally. But wend i was there, the verifications have been allready stoped and i saw angry i lot of faces of drivers and portuguese people of the organization.

I have readed the post's before, and just to correct some ideas. With the eavy rain of the last few days, in Portugal the stages will not be for a couple of hours, but for a couple of days. Portugal, spaind and Marocco have race tracks for a 15 days of race, They don't have many sand, but have great tracks.

Many drivers have sugested many ideas at the organization, and they refused eveything. They say that they organize great events and not fiascos... but what is the 2008? A gigantic offoad show in Lisbon, or the greatest fiasco of ASO story?
Some drivers have sugested that they could go to Marocco and return, or make 4 stages in Portugal, to give some time to the organization to rearrange the race.

In fact, the feeling around here is like a funeral. It appears that we have lost our best friend. The angry, frustration is huge.

All people agree in one point. There should be a plan B.

But now appear that they will leave europe to go south america, and who will pay or compensate the investiments make by all portugese partners? Governement, sponsors, local authorities, parters of the rally, drivers, etc etc...

This dakar , or the cancelation of it, only solves the problems of the organization, and creates many many more to all other people involved.

Sorry for such a long post.

[FlyHiFlyLo]

I'm willing to bet many of the sponsors pay...AFTER the rally... If they would have just started many contracts would have to be honored.

[Ferrari333SP]

From what I understand, there were threats coming from Morocco as well, so going there wasn't possible either. If only they would release the full information behind the threats themselves.

[derco]

Hi

There is a rumor around here that the problem is not threat... i that allready have happened something, but i repeat is only a rumor. So it's very probable that isn't true.
But what the rumor showed up in portugueses foruns is that the organization send's ahead of the rally a group of peolpe to pay "peace taxes" to the bandits groups, and that this group of people have dissapeared.

---

But the problems in magreb are not new. They are very old and very present in all editions of the dakar. So, i repeat my self, they should have a plan B, or must have stoped the rally and the huge investiments much earlier, not at 20hours of the start of the rally.

Regards.

[bufeo]

... .Sorry for such a long post.

Derco,

No need to apologize. I, for one, enjoy reading your posts, no matter the length. It gives us a perspective from Portugal.

That 'rumor' you report is showing up in a couple of other places as well. As you say, it's all rumor at this point. We'll have to wait and see.

Allen R

[Alliturken]

Hi

There is a rumor around here that the problem is not threat... i that allready have happened something, but i repeat is only a rumor. So it's very probable that isn't true.
But what the rumor showed up in portugueses foruns is that the organization send's ahead of the rally a group of peolpe to pay "peace taxes" to the bandits groups, and that this group of people have dissapeared.

---

But the problems in magreb are not new. They are very old and very present in all editions of the dakar. So, i repeat my self, they should have a plan B, or must have stoped the rally and the huge investiments much earlier, not at 20hours of the start of the rally.

Regards.

Interesting post.

"peace taxes" don't work for very long, there or anywhere else.

[randy s]

hey sr. bufeo. where else are these rumors showing up? thanks.

[bufeo]

hey sr. bufeo. where else are these rumors showing up? thanks.

I still have my press access and also another source which is classified (low level). If any of these 'rumors' begin to take on a public face I'll post here. Right now there is so much flack and talk in the international press that it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I did receive one rather curious inquiry from a friend of mine in the Czech Republic who, incidentally, has no connection whatsoever to rally racing or motor racing of any kind, in which he asks if I have any connection to the ASO. I replied in the negative and asked for his reason. Haven't heard back. It's 2300h there.

Allen R

[FlyHiFlyLo]

So that is a pretty interesting rumor.

The ASO sent a group down to Africa to pay off the local tribes to "Allow" safe passage for the rally and now they are missing?

And maybe they held them at ransome... "stop the rally or we kill them" type of deal?

And in typical French soft underbelly the pulled the plug?

Is that what the rumor is???

[gasit2win]

And then you have people that think Mexico is so bad and don't want to race down there anymore. Crime hijacking murder terrorist do we sit at home and stop doing everything i don't think so, we put are heads down and charge and keep fighting for are dreams because life is a one lap race and we are all racing to the finish.

PEACE
BILLY G.

[RacerX1]

Chris & I heard the news on Friday morning on our way out to Parker. We were shocked but not completely. About 4 months ago, Chris & I were told that this Dakar Rally may have been the last one held in Africa. Sounds like the org had already been looking into other alternatives. There had already been talks of moving the event to possibly another continent, maybe for the '09 rally, before all this other crap started happening.

It is such a bummer all around that these third world countries are starting to scare us and back us up against the wall with their threats and acts of violence. It's sad, sickening, and beyond angering. I could go on and on about how I feel but I won't.

I'm so sorry to all the teams, crews, families that you won't be able to race however, the org has to do what it has to do for everyone's sake I guess. I know people are ticked and very understandably so.

We hope everyone makes it home safely! Some are already home.

[RacingOne]

Story by RGM - Rob Harris

Team USA Strives Forward After the Dissapointing Ruining of the 2008 Dakar Rally


Orange, CA -- I've had a day to get over my 'Dakar' hangover. Personally for me I wanted to connect the world with our passion to race. The months preceding the 2008 'Dakar' Rally the media team was planning a first-of-kind effort that was going to bring the behind the scenes of the Dakar Rally to everybody. For us it is a bitter disappointment.

On a marketing front the Rally is huge for Robby Gordon Motorports. It is what separates us from 42 others in our largest arena - NASCAR. It would have extended our emerging global fan base. It is amazing the amount of attention Robby gets in just his fourth year in Europe. It was an opportunity for us to showcase some of the best off-road vehicles ever built. Think Formula one if you want to know the technical counterpart. It deprived us from challenging some of the best off-road teams in the world.
Mitsubishi and Volkswagen are two of the best and we wanted to beat them...badly! The lost opportunity is huge!

I know my disapointement is shared by everybody on the team. Each person who put there lives on hold to help make this happene came to race. The logistics were remarkable. The obstacle to making it to Lisbon were extreme.
The team built two unbelievable Hummers - the second one in less than 90 days. 4000 man hours per truck. Yet we were all sharing the same vision of winning in Dakar. It is true that we faced with some issues with our support vehicles. From the time we learned of them being on a boat that lost a propeller we mobilized. When we arrived in Lisbon on the 2nd of January there was a T4 and T6 being prepared to go. Parts were loaded and we were ready. Additional tents and camping equipment was bought. The Hotel Sofitel in Lisbon was a command center as Team Dakar USA Mobilized. Nobody complained.

We had heard about the terrorist activity in Mauritania. So had every team that showed up at scrutineering. Racers came to race. Perhaps some teams did not show up because of the threat but it seemed as if most did. From the information put out by the ASO we were assured that 2000 Mauritanian troops were going to be deployed in the troubled area. In the media center we were told 4000 troops and there was no reason for concern. Those that chose to be in Lisbon understood the risks of the Rally.

Late on January third we had heard that the rally might be contained as far as Morocco. Robby said think Barstow. If that were the case then Team Dakar USA and and Jean-Louis Schleeser would be at an advantage with their longer travel suspension over the factory works teams (Who generally have the advantage in Mauritanian in the dunes with their four wheel drive.) At about 11a.m. on January 4th, about two and half hours before our scrutineering date, we were finalizing a couple of things. Robby checked his brakes. James Linn made the final adjustments on the engine management systems. Ramses and I finished up the installation of the on board cameras. The Hummers were waxed and ready to race.

Jean-Louis Schlesser came to the basement of the Hotel Sofitel to tell us of the ASO's decision to cancel the race. He hung around a while and admired the trucks. Robby insisted that we still go to scrutineering. He wanted everybody to know that we came to race. Ramses and Julie from Toyo, Brian from Jim Beam Global and myself headed to the noon official ASO announcement at the Lisbon Cultural Center. When we arrived it was crowded. We parked illegally and arrived at the buzzing auditorium with several thousand people. Every team was there in uniform ready to race. Although we did not understand the French announcement that the rally was cancelled we were confused by the applause at the end. Why was everybody clapping? Had they decided to race?

If there is a will there is a way. In discussions with others there seemed to by quite a few alternatives to racing to Dakar, Senegal. The race into Morocco and back to Lisbon sounded good. Even just running rally courses in Europe seemed like a better idea to the alternative of not having a race.
Things could be done to increase security on the African routes. They could have mandated that all the teams travel in larger groups. I'm not sure how a couple of guys in pickups could want to pick on a convoy of heavily off-road modified support trucks. If it was insurance that the ASO was concerned about it they should have consulted the with teams. I bet those that came to race would have signed a waiver. In consulting with teams and sharing the know risks they would have come away with some better solutions. The will of the teams was there!

At first I thought about having Robby race Ronn for the Team Dakar USA championship. That would have been fun... although not a real good reason to beat up the equipment. Robby even drove to the government center to try sanction his own event and came pretty close. I think Robby is wishing he would have got up at the announcement and grabbed a microphone. If he did I know somebody would be racing somewhere right now.

After the announcement the team had to handle yet another set of obstacles.
Tickets for people to get back home, arrangements for all the equipment to go back to the States. Preparations for the next race. The big questions that remains is what's next? Do we go back to Dakar?

Races become famous from having history. Think of the Indy 500 without it's past. It's just not the same. The Dakar Rally has become famous from having history. There have been terror threats before. This story just adds to the lore of the race. In a couple of years it will be mentioned as a highlight in some TV show. We hope the Dakar Rally survives and if it does we will go back because there is only one Dakar.

One of our fear is the organizers have opened themselves up to constant threats by conceding. Having a race, any race would have shown some will.

I'm back home now waiting for my luggage. It got lost on the way to Lisbon and on the way back. When it gets here I will unpack and get ready for Laughlin.

[RGFan]

So what is the deal about Ronn Bailey running another rally , the Trans-Oriental Rally Raid. Will this be in the H3 with TDUSA/RGM, or will he be running in a different car. Obviously RG will be running the Nascar Series during that time. What a great way to get some miles and more R&D on the H3

[RacerX1]

Here is what Cyril had to say:
http://webphotos.aol.fr/ap/singleImage.do?pid=36704QBLcCeot8tsL-IdOpAmYkQLu-f5XbqKv4xQp5Fd3Ig%3D

Every year, Cyril donates his Dakar winnings to charity. He is continuing the charity that was started by Fabrizio Meoni to raise money for schools & children who's families cannot afford schooling in Africa. This is what Cyril is speaking about.

[big oly P.J]

Just saw Robby on speed channels preseason thunder. He said he was disapointed that they cancelled the rally completely, and said they should have run some of the stages. Lot of money wasted.

[kaw500]

Here is what Cyril had to say:
Every year, Cyril donates his Dakar winnings to charity. He is continuing the charity that was started by Fabrizio Meoni to raise money for schools & children who's families cannot afford schooling in Africa. This is what Cyril is speaking about.

Cyril Despres a class act all the way around.:)

[PMAZ7]

If I remember correctly, there was a pretty severe terrorist attack in New York in 2001 I think. Better cancel all the sporting events this year, motorsports or otherwise.

But on a serious note, I realize that there were no direct threats made to sporting events in this country, but the idea of completely canceling an event that could have been re-routed, shortened, or changed in someway (even if it meant delaying the start a couple of days) lends itself to irresponsible planning on the ASO's part IMHO.

P.S.- I meant no disrespect, in my statement, to anyone effected by the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 and by no means take that situation lightly. I was born and raised on the east coast and have lost people that I went to high school with.