single buggy boring should be replaced with

[MMS]

I believe this class should be replaced with a full body truck, such as Trophylites and Masons. The fans are more into trucks than rails.

[Steve_Naughton]

shhhh... I told you not to tell anyone.

actually, it was pretty exciting watching Freeman "rob-mac" the field.

[ML8on]

I believe this class should be replaced with a full body truck, such as Trophylites and Masons. The fans are more into trucks than rails.

I think it is kind of funny...on one day everybody is bitching about it being too expendsive to race CORR and there are too many beginners in the way of the professionals...on the next somebody is saying "lets get rid of the most affordable class for people to hone in their short course skills, and replace it with an expendsive class that is similar to a class that already exists."

The single buggy class is great, there shouldn't be any changes made to it as far as performance. (safety always needs to be updated)

[sandfish]

if it wasnt for single buggy many pros would not be were they are today. its the base stepping stone to becoming a pro. just ask rob mac... boring?? did you even watch the race???

[PadsFan]

Some of the best racing takes place in the single buggy class. I think it is the most even playing field out of all the classes. To the first time fan it might not be as exciting but for the true off-road racer or fan it is a great class to watch or be a part of. Plus it’s the most affordable. And a Trophy Lite is quite a bit different from a Pro Lite. I’d like to see the Trophy Lite stick to the desert.

[ryant35]

You can't beat the excitement of watching 30 single buggies trying to fall into line at turn 1 of Chula Vista. It's great, buggies running over each other and running down the inside of the hill over the banners.

[Steve_Naughton]

if it wasnt for single buggy many pros would not be were they are today. its the base stepping stone to becoming a pro.

I agree 100%. And it would be great to see more affordable local and regional series for these guys. More opportunities for people to get involved and drivers to hone their skills. That would only help the sport grow. I also agree with Messer though. CORR could be a really bitchen FULL day of truck racing.

[ryant35]

I agree 100%. And it would be great to see more affordable local and regional series for these guys. More opportunities for people to get involved and drivers to hone their skills. That would only help the sport grow. I also agree with Messer though. CORR could be a really bitchen FULL day of truck racing.

I agree with the full day of truck racing. I loved it last season with the multiple heats per day, but I can imagine the headache for the teams to get the trucks ready for more than one race along with qualifying.

[HUBBARD]

Only real problem I see with buggies is they are hard to market. Personally if it has a motor and its racing part of me is standing up saluting.

[handmethemic]

I'm gonna wait for Notary to chime in on this one...

[harleys dad]

I'm gonna wait for Notary to chime in on this one...
You dont have to waight for Notary, I will give my uncle and his freinds impresion as first time Corr watchers from Oklahoma and Georga, they thought the show was terrible because of all the trucks and how they could not really see a differnce in the 2 big truck classes and the racing was boring on tv. Somthing has to get better because I garruntee you, they were not the only ones. What they as race fans thought was really stupid, was watching the same guys racing in another truck that looked just like the one they were seen racing before, and thought the compatition yellow is the stupidist thing they have ever seen. Being that Baldwin is trying to sell this to average people across the country, if these 6 are any indacation, well you figure it out. My opinion, is close evenly matched buggys put on a better race any day than pro lite does because by the 3rd lap pro lite is so spaced out it is horribly boring. And besides pro lite is a begginers class to hone your skills, single buggy or 1/2 1600 has been around since 1978 and has never been considerd a beginers class like pro lite LOL

[fashionbiff]

Thats the problem with short track someone checks out then it gets hard to figure whats going on or just plain dull. I guess that was the real reason for the comp yellows, well CV had a ton of flats that first year too.

[MORE #911]

This looks pretty wild from last weekend. Ryan is going for it..

[handmethemic]

My opinion, is close evenly matched buggys put on a better race any day than pro lite does because by the 3rd lap pro lite is so spaced out it is horribly boring.

I'm with you 100%.

[bcampbell04]

i believe it would be a HORRIBLE idea to get rid of single buggy. it is a stepping stone/beginner class for drivers wanting to prepare themselves for a career in short-course racing. sure, people with lots of money consider pro-lites as a rookie/beginner class, but i would totally disagree. pro-lite is extremely competitive and the field is packed with talented drivers. every class has intense competition in it and is exciting to watch, even single buggy. i understand the points of that buggies are hard to market, that is absolutely true. sponsors like trucks because they have more body space for advertisements and bodies that fall off and get smashed, attract the crowd's attention. the smashing & bashing of the trucks is why everyone likes them. i'm not bagging on the trucks by any means, they are very exciting to watch and the talent of the fields of drivers is AMAZING.

i say all this as a buggy guy at heart. but sadly, i do think within the next few years, jim baldwin/CORR will not have a class like single buggy. i TRUELY hope it doesn't happen, but from the way things are going, i can see it. i really wish more people would give buggies a chance and the respect they deserve. like it was said before, how is it not exciting to watch 30 single buggies diving into the same turn??? they are just as competitive as every other class, with less parts flying off most of the time.

KEEP SINGLE BUGGY!!!

[OffroadExit]

The grapevine rumor is that the "creators" of trophy lite were turned down by Jim Baldwin to start a class in CORR...however they have done a great job bringing TL racing to the other series.

[1wayne]

Here we go pick on the buggies the grass roots of the sport we all love. Give some love to the buggies!

[racer_dude]

keep the single buggies, keep the super buggies even make a super "super" buggy class.

get rid of the rhino's, and throw in some trophylites. that way, just like the stepping stones of the "buggy" classes, you can step slowly up to the top of the truck class.

the rhino's ARE the most boring part of CORR, at least the trophykarts entertain 5 people in the stands while they work on the track.

[racechick]

How many of you know how Baldwin's got their start racing in the dezert???? Where did there roots start at???????? Think about it... There's a reason why buggies are here to stay.

[superkart]

Dirt Aliiance and our company started the Super-Kart Challenge series as an inexpensive alternative race. Right now we allow 800cc to 1100cc single and two seat sandrail to race together. The cost to enter is only $150.00. We spent about $4.00 on gas, $3.00 for a spark plug and $2.00 to wash our sandrail and we are Ready To Race on May 10th. Next year we will have separate class for Single Seat and Two Seat Sandrails. Our sandrails are capable of 100mph so we can run as fast as some of these very expensive Trophy Trucks, Trophy Lite etc. We have the same horsepower to weight ratio as a Mason Superlite. Why many people think they have to spend a ton of money to race and have a good time does not make much sense to me. While I can appreciate the lure of racing at a CORR event it it not the only place to race. Stop by Lake Elsinore MX Track on May 10th and watch the races. Did I mention we sell a Ready To Race Buggy for less than $10,000.00. You only need to buy gas for $4.00, a helmet at $75.00 and a $100.00 firesuit and your ready to race. I promise no one will be bitching about not being a pro and you will have a great time. It costs $10.00 to get into the race. We brought our own refreshments and they have food available. They did a great job keeping the dust down and I love the new track. Keep the single buggy class. Just my 2 cents

Superkart

[Nukldragger]

My opinion, is close evenly matched buggys put on a better race any day than pro lite does because by the 3rd lap pro lite is so spaced out it is horribly boring. And besides pro lite is a begginers class to hone your skills, single buggy or 1/2 1600 has been around since 1978 and has never been considerd a beginers class like pro lite LOL

Apparently you didn't see Sunday's Pro-Lite race......

The UTV races are a waste of time. Boring as heck and really puts pressure timewise on the pro teams when the cameras are live.

[glamisduneripper]

Apparently you didn't see Sunday's Pro-Lite race......

The UTV races are a waste of time. Boring as heck and really puts pressure timewise on the pro teams when the cameras are live.

true sundays race really was close and very entertaining but that was kinda rare...
as for the utv's they need to have a smaller corse than the full cars but bigger than the trophy karts... they are too slow and boring to run the full track

[harleys dad]

Apparently you didn't see Sunday's Pro-Lite race......

The UTV races are a waste of time. Boring as heck and really puts pressure timewise on the pro teams when the cameras are live.
Like the post ubove said, its kinda rare, and if saturdays tv was any kind of gauge, yawn

[dezerts10]

get rid of the trophy karts and utvs. keep everything else. learn to prep the track faster maybe using more equipment and since there are so many trucks and buggies right now start the racing earlier in the day. Heat races for the main event or qualifying putting x amount of trucks and buggies in each main event and have an LCQ for the last 2 positions

Gregg

[DailyPedal]

Never gonna get rid of TKs because many of the kids are family of racers at the event. And in response to "learn to prep the track faster maybe using more equipment," The track crew is the best in the business and have been doing it since the MT days-it is going as fast as it is going to go.

[MMS]

You can't beat the excitement of watching 30 single buggies trying to fall into line at turn 1 of Chula Vista. It's great, buggies running over each other and running down the inside of the hill over the banners.

I believe 30 Trophylites digging for turn one would be more exciting, with all the body
banging -parts flying-upside down-right side up-bumper to bumper-just a fan saying

[Steve_Naughton]

Never gonna get rid of TKs because many of the kids are family of racers at the event. And in response to "learn to prep the track faster maybe using more equipment," The track crew is the best in the business and have been doing it since the MT days-it is going as fast as it is going to go.

I agree. I don't know the exact numbers, but as it stands now, I would bet that 1/3rd or more of the people in the stands are there because of some relation with either TK, Rhino or Buggy team. So it stands to reason that CORR want's these guys out there (I just realized I used the word "stands" three times in that paragraph ..."as it stands" "people in the stands" and "stands to reason". ...that's crazy)

However, I still think CORR can be a full day of really bitchen truck racing with real pro classes, b mains and possibly trophy lites (or something like it.) And I think ultimately that would draw larger crowds and bigger/better sponsor interest.

Also, I agree about the track crew. CORR builds the best tracks, especially the original Chula with the land rush start.

[450grl]

I knew someone would say UTV's need to go......I for one am glad we are allowed to race, but I would LOVE to have them throw in some killer jumps for us....I heard that the people in the stands for our races really enjoyed them - they were standing up and everything, so apparently SOMEONE likes the UTV's.......we are an entry level class, too - like the buggies. A few UTV racers already moved up to Pro Lite.....

[Chris Tobin]

I knew someone would say UTV's need to go......I for one am glad we are allowed to race, but I would LOVE to have them throw in some killer jumps for us....I heard that the people in the stands for our races really enjoyed them - they were standing up and everything, so apparently SOMEONE likes the UTV's.......we are an entry level class, too - like the buggies. A few UTV racers already moved up to Pro Lite.....

I am sure less people would be complaining if they saw you guys (UTVs) on a course that had bigger jumps and could show off the UTV capabilities like the ones in the video you posted a while ago.

[TCPRacing]

I knew someone would say UTV's need to go......I for one am glad we are allowed to race, but I would LOVE to have them throw in some killer jumps for us....I heard that the people in the stands for our races really enjoyed them - they were standing up and everything, so apparently SOMEONE likes the UTV's.......we are an entry level class, too - like the buggies. A few UTV racers already moved up to Pro Lite.....

Everyone in the stands were standing up in your race because they were trying to look down your driving suit :-)

UTV's do look much better on a smaller track with lots of jumps than they do on the full size track.

[Steve_Naughton]

I am sure less people would be complaining if they saw you guys (UTVs) on a course that had bigger jumps and could show off the UTV capabilities like the ones in the video you posted a while ago.

I agree. I think the Rhinos look bitchen on a motocross course.

Also, I think Trophy Trucks don't look good on the short course, but they're hands down the baddest in the wide open desert. A Pro-4 would look silly running in baja or on a M/T style stadium track. I think it's very important to run in a venue that makes sense for the type of racing you do (except for freestyle moto-x at ceasers palace in las vegas!)

[dezerts10]

Never gonna get rid of TKs because many of the kids are family of racers at the event. And in response to "learn to prep the track faster maybe using more equipment," The track crew is the best in the business and have been doing it since the MT days-it is going as fast as it is going to go.

well corr will never grow if they depend on the stands being filled by family memebers. and I know who the track builders are, some are a friend of mines family.

Im looking at corr as an event to go to for the day and be damn im gonna spend more money cause that stuff was rad. I think its rad but i also tend to think its boring watching most of the filler classes. My group of friends go and we get board so we leave. The youth of america has A.D.D. i think some times we need none stop action.

Gregg

[450grl]

LOL!! :) Alright....I feel better.... :)

[handmethemic]

The youth of america has A.D.D. i think some times we need none stop action.

If off-road races were one right after another the crowd wouldn't be able to keep up. Like it or not, track grooming pauses and other delays are when the folks have time to stop at the blue shack, then grab a beer and sit back down in their seat. Without a short break (short meaning five to ten minutes, not twenty to thirty) the crowd would be exhausted, dehydrated and starved by the end of the day.

I took your quote out of context, sorry... but I saw it and it got me thinking. I guess my brain just works in mysterious ways sometimes.

[blacksheep]

the baldwins roots start with making money, if thier were enough pro 2 and pro4 to fill the program thier wouldnt be any of the other classes racing. if corr grows to that point thats what the tv marketers would rather see,then goodbye all buggies ,utv and possibly pro lites.

[racechick]

actually the Baldwins started racing buggies in the dezert.

[handmethemic]

One thing that concerns me about this discussion is that everything is geared toward the final product ending up on TV.

I think TV is fantastic for the sport, but I don't believe in reducing the quality of the live, in-person show in favor of better TV. Granted, TV can reach the masses, but everybody knows that short course off road racing (like every other motorsport) is better in person.

Eliminate the "lesser classes" (for the record that's not how I feel about them) and you're left with two hours of racing at the most. The way it is now, there's almost a carnival atmosphere at the track. In between races you get to go meet the drivers, there's give-aways, and other attractions like live music and freestyle motocross and all other sorts of stuff.

I guess what I mean to say is if everyone pushes for a Pro-only series for the sake of the TV, the quality of the live experience is going to decline.

I think it'd be really damn cool if short course racing (all the classes) could become part of an even larger carnival setting, hook up with a freestyle motocross tour and land a big musical act for Saturday night. Become something so big that nobody would ever want to miss it.

[DailyPedal]

Look at some of the premier oval races-not cup, Nationwide or truck but others. Gates open at 4 or 5, racing starts at 7 and show over by 10. That is what a pro only event would look like without the day filled with the other classes. Maybe this would work for the "regular" fans with families or other commitments, you know the types, those with lives, but the hardcore fans are in it for every minute and would probably feel cheated in a pro-only race day.

[desertchick]

I think that the single buggies are here to stay I mean they are the steeping stone to a lot of drivers. I mean a lot of drivers started in buggies.. Such as Travis Coyne he was racing buggies way back in the Mikey Thompson days.. So the buggies are here to stay..

[racer_dude]

I agree. I think the Rhinos look bitchen on a motocross course.



uhh, i still dont agree.

as far as entry level racing goes, im pretty sure about 50% of the rhino's cost more to build and get "race ready" than a single buggy does. and they actually look halfway decent as a race vehicle.

[desertchick]

uhh, i still dont agree.

as far as entry level racing goes, im pretty sure about 50% of the rhino's cost more to build and get "race ready" than a single buggy does. and they actually look halfway decent as a race vehicle.

I don't think so I think that single buggies are a great class. I mean they are the only class that has an even playing field. Not like the other classes were it is all a matter of money.

[WickedGravityVideo]

What CORR needs is to have Trophy Lites running, and Rhinos running, and Trophy Karts, and Class1 Lites, all on concentric tracks at the same time. AND IN THE VERY MIDDLE, (where media scum used to be able to hang) will be.....(drum roll)....

Girls in bikinis jumping on trampolines!!!!!

[450grl]

ooooo! Like CORR Juggies! HAHA!

[henry]

I believe this class should be replaced with a full body truck, such as Trophylites and Masons. The fans are more into trucks than rails.

Absolutely not! This class has proven over time (since I don't know the old SODA days through the entire history of CORR and possibly the old Riverside short course races, you west coast guys will have to educate me on that one) to have viability, in this class especially you know w/out a doubt who the great drivers are. With very little differences between the cars and an awesome turnout, a driver knows just how good he/she is. Plus, why fix something that isn't broken? This class has awesome turnout. What CORR doesn't need is another truck class, frankly. There are already a couple of truck classes that those fans not in the know can't tell apart anyway. Why add to the confusion?

[harleys dad]

The soda days single buggy was 1 and 2 seat cars, 98 percent were 2 seaters that could race 3 times in a weekend. 1/1600, 2/1600 and the limmited championship. The class was huge with about a 50-65 dollor entry fee for each race. A lot of Corrs past champions in pro 2 and pro 4 as well as pro lite have come from soda and 1600. After watching a pro 2 race at chula vista a couple of years ago pro lite looked absolutly rediculas as the next race. Scott Taylor came from buggys and I was hugely impressed with the speed. My buddy Steve Federico who came from buggys was racing pro lite that weekend and got me in for free. It is the only time I have been to a corr race, and I have to say pro 2 was forsure the fastest thing on the track that weekend. Trophy lites would look foolish on a track that had pro 2 or 4 on it the same weekend. people become overdosed with trucks after a while. pro lites in themselfs are the begginers truck class that some have turned it into a class of money and think it is the holey grail class. What makes me laugh even more, is every race car that people call trucks, are really buggys made to look like a truck, weather front or mid engine HA HA

[Steve_Naughton]

The soda days single buggy was 1 and 2 seat cars, 98 percent were 2 seaters that could race 3 times in a weekend. 1/1600, 2/1600 and the limmited championship. The class was huge with about a 50-65 dollor entry fee for each race. A lot of Corrs past champions in pro 2 and pro 4 as well as pro lite have come from soda and 1600. After watching a pro 2 race at chula vista a couple of years ago pro lite looked absolutly rediculas as the next race. Scott Taylor came from buggys and I was hugely impressed with the speed. My buddy Steve Federico who came from buggys was racing pro lite that weekend and got me in for free. It is the only time I have been to a corr race, and I have to say pro 2 was forsure the fastest thing on the track that weekend. Trophy lites would look foolish on a track that had pro 2 or 4 on it the same weekend. people become overdosed with trucks after a while. pro lites in themselfs are the begginers truck class that some have turned it into a class of money and think it is the holey grail class. What makes me laugh even more, is every race car that people call trucks, are really buggys made to look like a truck, weather front or mid engine HA HA


harleys dad,

Can you educate us about the caveman too? I mean I wasn't around back then and don't know much about them. Didn't they live in caves and hunt for food with clubs or something like that?

[gmmvp42]

were you around when class 1 was the main event at a mickey thompson production? Too many truck classes is BORING. What made off road racing the coolest was the different vehicles you could trick out and race. I am spoiled cuz I was fortunate enough to witness Riverside multiple times. As a fan I am glad somebody is financing the racers, but I for one will not be fired up about a CORR race until they take the same approach SCORE did at Riverside(no Terribles Cup references needed). Respect history, you might learn something.

[dezerts10]

All the mteg references do not have any value to what CORR is today imo. i would love to see buggies in a stadium venue but buggies on a long new skool CORR track where they are high speed tracks is lame. Id love to see pro lite and pro 2 only everyday. heats, semis and main events per day.

[Aflac]

I believe this class should be replaced with a full body truck, such as Trophylites and Masons. The fans are more into trucks than rails.

So you and your son went from 5/1600 to 1600 and now to a trophylite so you want to ditch the buggies? As Tim Cecil would say and I quote "Shut your mouth!".
I could see dithing the UTVs but not the buggies. But then again some of the UTVs would give the trophylites a run for their money.
I would put my money on a 1600 any day!
-Dana T.-

[KLS Motorsports]

IF CORR WOULD LOSE THE RESRICTOR PLATE (OR AT LEAST 28mm TO MATCH THE VENTURI)AND LET US ACTUALLY RUN OUR MOTORS IT WOULD BE A GREAT SHOW.MY LAWNMOWER HAS A BIGGER INTAKE THAN MY BUGGY.THATS SAD.AND ANOTHER THING .STEVE I REALLY ENJOY YOUR VIDS BUT ALL I SEE IS YOU SITTING AROUND HERE TALKING S**T FROM BEHIND THE SCENES. MY TEENAGE DAUGHTERS SAY YOUR WORSE THAN AN OLD LADY IN A BEAUTY PARLOR.MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET A LIFE OR GET IN THE SEAT AND GRAB A WHEEL OTHERWISE STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW.

[MMS]

So you and your son went from 5/1600 to 1600 and now to a trophylite so you want to ditch the buggies? As Tim Cecil would say and I quote "Shut your mouth!".
I could see dithing the UTVs but not the buggies. But then again some of the UTVs would give the trophylites a run for their money.
I would put my money on a 1600 any day!
-Dana T.- I love the 1600s in the desert, they are tuff and fast, in fact faster than 1200s in some races. Just my opinion that short courses are not for
them.

[DTL]

Amen to the KLS post!

[Steve_Naughton]

STEVE I REALLY ENJOY YOUR VIDS BUT ALL I SEE IS YOU SITTING AROUND HERE TALKING S**T FROM BEHIND THE SCENES.

Randy,

Thanks for the compliments regarding my vids. Also, I realize that my ideas aren't very favorable to a lot of people in the desert racing world. It's only the true pro's AND the small guy who's working toward someday competing at the highest level who tend to agree with me. Which, unfortunately seems few and far between in the desert world. Probably the reason it's never really gone anywhere other than a hobbyist type sport. But I'm optimistic it can become bigger and better, which oddly enough seems like a lot of you don't want.

[harleys dad]

Steve Naughton, well if you ask me, in my cave man time off road racing was a lot more pro than what you are presenting today, in my cave man years people were making a complete living off of factory suport, unlike today, were for the most part it is just a wealthy mans hobby. We had TV in our cave man time, Wide World of sports was covering Baja, I won 3 large races with double your largest entry ever on ESPN in the sports most popular class at the time, wich to me was cool, but really didnt help me much at the time. KLS motorsports has it rite, if the restrictors were removed , the single buggys would be knocking on the back door of pro lites for a hell of a lot less money, and still put on every bit as good a race as pro lite on any day. Any day you want to compare trophy cases, come on by, because it would be very lop sided in my favor when it comes to this type of racing. I pitty you because you did not get to experience the greatest time in off road racing!!! Cave man days were the best, because almost everybody could do it, not a select few like now. And untell all the factorys get behind it like in the past, it is still just going to be a hobby sport with hobby drivers with big money. Thats why I have way more respect for anybody who wins single buggy over anybody who wins pro lite, because single buggys are so even unlike pro lite who can out spend the next to get an advantage. In our sport, the best of the best are forsure not racing in pro lite, they are in pro 2 or 4 and some are sprinckled in single buggy and pro lite and a lot of them do not race short cource at all. I get so tired of reading how superior the truck classes are and you have to learn the ropes in the lower classes, that is all hog wash. To me, racing is racing, i love watching a tt go across the dezert as much as a class 11 and buggy or truck, they are all great to watch, and better to drive. End of story

[1wayne]

I believe this class should be replaced with a full body truck, such as Trophylites and Masons. The fans are more into trucks than rails.


Here you go pick on the the buggys again. The buggys are where this sport came from, give them a little respect after all many of the top drivers learn their skills in a buggy. If know what you are watching there is a lot of talent in that class. There is also very good racing going on. Ya, they may not look all that exciting to watch, you just have look around and find the battles from position. While your at it why not get rid of the trophy carts.:confused:

[Steve_Naughton]

Steve Naughton, well if you ask me, in my cave man time off road racing was a lot more pro than what you are presenting today, in my cave man years people were making a complete living off of factory suport, unlike today, were for the most part it is just a wealthy mans hobby. We had TV in our cave man time, Wide World of sports was covering Baja, I won 3 large races with double your largest entry ever on ESPN in the sports most popular class at the time, wich to me was cool, but really didnt help me much at the time. KLS motorsports has it rite, if the restrictors were removed , the single buggys would be knocking on the back door of pro lites for a hell of a lot less money, and still put on every bit as good a race as pro lite on any day. Any day you want to compare trophy cases, come on by, because it would be very lop sided in my favor when it comes to this type of racing. I pitty you because you did not get to experience the greatest time in off road racing!!! Cave man days were the best, because almost everybody could do it, not a select few like now. And untell all the factorys get behind it like in the past, it is still just going to be a hobby sport with hobby drivers with big money. Thats why I have way more respect for anybody who wins single buggy over anybody who wins pro lite, because single buggys are so even unlike pro lite who can out spend the next to get an advantage. In our sport, the best of the best are forsure not racing in pro lite, they are in pro 2 or 4 and some are sprinckled in single buggy and pro lite and a lot of them do not race short cource at all. I get so tired of reading how superior the truck classes are and you have to learn the ropes in the lower classes, that is all hog wash. To me, racing is racing, i love watching a tt go across the dezert as much as a class 11 and buggy or truck, they are all great to watch, and better to drive. End of story

Harleys Dad, No offense regarding my "caveman" post. You just came off as an old disgruntled ex-has-been buggy racer who seems to really hate pro lite. But I agree with almost everything you wrote in this latest post, especially the part where you write "until all the factorys get behind it like in the past, it is still just going to be a hobby sport with hobby drivers with big money." Also, I totally agree with you that these days the best-of-the-best are sprinkled across the different classes. If you search my past posts, you'll find that I've wrote that exact same thing. Single Buggy definitely has some of the best talent out there.

So what do you think it's going to take for factories to get behind it like in the past? Any constructive ideas?

[nimrod]

Buggies are what it's all about boys...Buggies started the 4 wheel off road revolution and they continue to be the platform of seat time for most racers.

If your favorite hero wasn't born with or married into a bunch of money then I'll bet that he or she came up through the buggy ranks.....

Single buggy,1/2 1600, 5/1600 even 9 and 11 cars teach people how to drive. Anyone can hop in a huge high horsepower truck and outspend people and have a great amount of success.

The back bone of off road racing is buggies.

Oh yeah....Just a thought. If you were to look at just the tube frame of your favorite race truck would it look more like a buggy or a Ford Ranger......HA HA HA HA....Trucks, yeah right!!!

Buggies rule!

Rob Mac in that Red thingy mabob is pretty cool though....

[Steve_Naughton]

Evolution? Or is it?

http://idisk.mac.com/steve_n-Public/buggy-evolution.jpg

[Volkspower Racing]

Evolution? Or is it?

http://idisk.mac.com/steve_n-Public/buggy-evolution.jpg

Thanks Steve, kick me harder when I'm down!

[Pro2-54]

Harley no offense but you are clueless. With half the prolite field changing to Esslinger Fords, how come it is still a battle for the win between 3 or 4 drivers? You say you can only win if you out spend the competition, well If you did a little research you would know I won two races in my rookie season with zero budget and a volunteer crew. Kyle Leduc won a championship in 2004 with a fraction of the budget of the other top teams, these examples were done through hard work, dedication and desire. Not money. We still operate on a 1/4 of the budget of some other prolite teams.
Ask your buddy Federico how easy it is to win in prolite.
I have said this many times on this site but will say it again for you. When I was researching CORR and deciding wether to start in buggy or Prolite (I could not afford P2) I chose the PL over the buggies for one simple reason. At the time they were getting equal TV time as the P2 and P4 for a fraction of the cost. I gambled that if I could do well in PL I could build a self sustaining program and eventually take my program and sponsors with me to Pro 2. After one season of spending money I did not have, my race program paid for itself in 2007 and will again in 2008 even better. I still do not pay myself but I am able to pay my crew and pay all race expenses. With only two season in CORR under my belt, I am more than thrilled with where my program is at and where it is going.
I am confident had I chose one of the buggy classes, the results would have been the same but the budget would be ZERO. I looked at this soley from a marketing standpoint and chose prolite because it gave me the best opportunity at a half affordable price to build a self sustaining race program. It was as simple as that. I can not afford to race if it does not support itself, sorry if that bums you out.
So this is why I chose the beginner truck class (as you would call it).
If you ever come to another race ask around to the guys in P2 or P4 who have raced PL which one is harder to be fast in. You might be surprised.
Not to burst your anti PL bubble, but all the drivers in CORR from single to P4 as well as the Crew Chief's voted a PL driver as Driver of the year, Dirtsports magazine stuck a PL driver as runner up Driver of the year between Rob Mac and Jerry Whelchel, I am sure this happend because they are lame, easy to drive and you can only win if you outspend.
I love buggy's, started in 1600 in the desert and would have started there in CORR if I thought It could be self supporting and my best opportunity to build a P2 program.
I still race 1600's whenever I can and since Dec.2007 raced 1600 Shootout, Battle at Primm, and the Mint 400. I love this class and raced these races to see if I (a beginner prolite racer) could compete with what I consider the toughest most competitive class in the desert. I was happy with my results.
So I agree with you and everyone else who loves buggies, they rock and are fun to drive and race, but from a marketing standpoint they are a tough sell to the average fan and corporate america.
So I tell people to race whatever class they want and can afford, everyones goals, dreams and desire's are different. This is just what worked for me.
Rob

[pdailey]

Evolution? Or is it?

http://idisk.mac.com/steve_n-Public/buggy-evolution.jpg

Whatever dude.

[harleys dad]

Harleys Dad, No offense regarding my "caveman" post. You just came off as an old disgruntled ex-has-been buggy racer who seems to really hate pro lite. But I agree with almost everything you wrote in this latest post, especially the part where you write "until all the factorys get behind it like in the past, it is still just going to be a hobby sport with hobby drivers with big money." Also, I totally agree with you that these days the best-of-the-best are sprinkled across the different classes. If you search my past posts, you'll find that I've wrote that exact same thing. Single Buggy definitely has some of the best talent out there.

So what do you think it's going to take for factories to get behind it like in the past? Any constructive ideas?
The problem is the factorys, all of them are loosing money at a huge rate. I honestly cannot see them comming back like they were. I wish they would because it trulley was a very exciting time when they were fully involved. I think that the factorys have there belts so tight these days, and money invested in other forms of motorsports that off road has maybe seen the last of full factory backing. I think we mite see some kind of factory suport if tv really works out for Corr, but full factory backing is a thing of the past in my opinion. Steve, the last thing I am is disgruntled, and in no way do I hate pro lite, as stated, I love watching a good race no matter what class is racing. Class 11 in big numbers could be a big crowd pleaser, because at the Battle at primm, i guarantee you it was by far the most watched class at the event, with dang near everybody that was there watching the race in huge numbers. Thats one reason 5/1600 was such a crowd pleaser, there was allways door to door banging all the way. One reason I come on here and post what it was like in my cave man days is that it worked and paid very very very well for next to nothing and the promoter was still making money. Big entry fees do nothing but price some good drivers out or just line Baldwins pocket. I in no way can imagin this guy loosing money the way he says he is, if he is then he is a fool. One thing that killed short cource in the past was promoter change, higher entry fee, far less payback. This guy charges for everything under the son now, next he will be charging for the air we breath. Health reasons have kept me from getting back into the short cource seen, but if you have seen thrugh my eyes what was and what is now you would question things also. Trucks are great to watch, but all trucks and nothing but trucks gets most people overdosed. Forsure with somthing like trophy lite anywere near the same track as the pro trucks race. No matter what, i want anybody and everybody to build some sort of off road car and race it, its been the number 1 thing in my life for over 30 years. I use to let this sport consume my life. A person racing a single buggy, or a utv, or class 11 takes it every bit as serious as anybody in pro 2 to pro lite or pro 4. Having sombody sit in an office and say this is our pro?? classes to me sounds silly. I guess that is somthing that bothers me and makes me sound disgruntled, because to say you need to race the lower?? classes as a stepping stone hone your skills to pro lite is also silly. I think that is why I come off as hating Pro lite. What has made pro lite somthing that has to be honed for. I would love to race a pro lite, but my wallet says no, so I have to listen to it.

[harleys dad]

Harley no offense but you are clueless. With half the prolite field changing to Esslinger Fords, how come it is still a battle for the win between 3 or 4 drivers? You say you can only win if you out spend the competition, well If you did a little research you would know I won two races in my rookie season with zero budget and a volunteer crew. Kyle Leduc won a championship in 2004 with a fraction of the budget of the other top teams, these examples were done through hard work, dedication and desire. Not money. We still operate on a 1/4 of the budget of some other prolite teams.
Ask your buddy Federico how easy it is to win in prolite.
I have said this many times on this site but will say it again for you. When I was researching CORR and deciding wether to start in buggy or Prolite (I could not afford P2) I chose the PL over the buggies for one simple reason. At the time they were getting equal TV time as the P2 and P4 for a fraction of the cost. I gambled that if I could do well in PL I could build a self sustaining program and eventually take my program and sponsors with me to Pro 2. After one season of spending money I did not have, my race program paid for itself in 2007 and will again in 2008 even better. I still do not pay myself but I am able to pay my crew and pay all race expenses. With only two season in CORR under my belt, I am more than thrilled with where my program is at and where it is going.
I am confident had I chose one of the buggy classes, the results would have been the same but the budget would be ZERO. I looked at this soley from a marketing standpoint and chose prolite because it gave me the best opportunity at a half affordable price to build a self sustaining race program. It was as simple as that. I can not afford to race if it does not support itself, sorry if that bums you out.
So this is why I chose the beginner truck class (as you would call it).
If you ever come to another race ask around to the guys in P2 or P4 who have raced PL which one is harder to be fast in. You might be surprised.
Not to burst your anti PL bubble, but all the drivers in CORR from single to P4 as well as the Crew Chief's voted a PL driver as Driver of the year, Dirtsports magazine stuck a PL driver as runner up Driver of the year between Rob Mac and Jerry Whelchel, I am sure this happend because they are lame, easy to drive and you can only win if you outspend.
I love buggy's, started in 1600 in the desert and would have started there in CORR if I thought It could be self supporting and my best opportunity to build a P2 program.
I still race 1600's whenever I can and since Dec.2007 raced 1600 Shootout, Battle at Primm, and the Mint 400. I love this class and raced these races to see if I (a beginner prolite racer) could compete with what I consider the toughest most competitive class in the desert. I was happy with my results.
So I agree with you and everyone else who loves buggies, they rock and are fun to drive and race, but from a marketing standpoint they are a tough sell to the average fan and corporate america.
So I tell people to race whatever class they want and can afford, everyones goals, dreams and desire's are different. This is just what worked for me.
Rob
You know Rob, you are a rare exception, good for you. the last thing I am is clue less, How many racers in pro lite can really afford the motor you can, because with out it you are in the back. It was obvios on tv that you had a huge amount of power on most of the trucks they showed, and last I herd it takes very little skill to out power sombody in a straight line And how many are having their way paid by the fact they are racing pro lite. A few yes. Everybody I have spocken to about them say they are very expencive to run. Oh by the way, I did not invent the begginers class for pro lite, Marty Reed did in his Corr brodcasts. You obviosly were able to spend the money needed to be able to run up front in the beggining, and have shown the talent to do well. Good for you and good luck, maybe your 1/4 budget kept you from winning on tv

[Pro2-54]

How many racers in pro lite can really afford the motor you can, because with out it you are in the back. It was obvios on tv that you had a huge amount of power on most of the trucks they showed, and last I herd it takes very little skill to out power sombody in a straight line And how many are having their way paid by the fact they are racing pro lite. A few yes.Good for you and good luck, maybe your 1/4 budget kept you from winning on tv

Everyone with an Esslinger Ford has the same exact motor I do. Its available to everyone turn key off the dyno for $20,500 Knowing this I knew I had better outsmart them with power to the ground, gearing, tranny, suspension, and line selection and thats what we did. Thats the part you can't buy.
And no, it was a brand new clutch with almost one race on it that failed. A part we typically run 2-3 weekends. I blame it on Chinese steel.:)
Rob

[Steve_Naughton]

Harleys Dad...

I see your point and somewhat agree with it. I realize that Single Buggy in CORR and 1600 in desert are the median classes. They're the classes that almost everyone can afford to race. And if Single Buggy was the main prime time show at CORR, then there would probably be 150 of them, and the main event would look something like: Freeman, Greaves, Taylor, Douglas, Mac, Knupp, Boyer, Kincaid, Hord, Renezeder, etc.. It would probably be a really good show.

But the reality of the situation is P2 and P4 are hands down the baddest cars in CORR and those ought to be the main event along with the most talented drivers driving them. But how do we get more of the talented drivers into P2's?

Of course my crazy theory (which some say will never happen) is maybe the successful businessman who loves off road might consider putting the fastest most able driver he can find into his shiny new P2 rather than drive it himself (like what Menzies has done with Rob Mac)

I also said that CORR ought to implement qualifying for the pro classes. The reason I say this is because when the less-talented guy gets tired of not making the main event, he may consider putting a very talented racer in his truck (either that or he would just sell it and get out of the sport ...but hopefully he would keep the truck and put a very talented driver in it, which could potentially be beneficial for him if he knows what he's doing.)

People keep saying things like "as the sport grows it will become more valuable" and "until the public can grasp what it's all about it won't go mainstream." Well I'm saying right now that until CORR better defines it's top ranks ...until they implement qualifying and professional standards in their top pro class, it will not grow, become more valuable or go mainstream.

[harleys dad]

I like the chinese metal statment LOL I know things happen. Do they really have no qualifying in the pro classes????? That to me is the lamest part of the whole thing. How do they determin were you start?? Out of a hat???? I have allways thought Nascar sucked to the high heven because of there top 35 BS. I am a full blooded racer, qualifying is the best way of setting a feild. Drive your butt off if you want front row. That has been my point all along, there are a lot of so so drivers that can look like they are Mario Andreti in the pits with the greatest equipment known to man, haullers that rivel F-1 and run in the back race after race after race. I have allways felt the pro classverces sportsman class thing is lame. I agree with you, some of the owners should be in the stands, not being presented as a pro, and qualyfing will shure show who is who rite away. How does sombody sit on the front row for the first race of the weekend? Most of my short cource races were run with out qualyfing, some did at first like Bajadesadleback and early riverside untell about 1980. I really think Corr has their head in their tail on this, and just because sombody has a name, should not ever be a reason they make a feild. Please give me an answer to some of my questions, WHY NO QUALIFYING???

[Pro2-54]

Actually, practice is timed and used to determine starting position. So yes the fastest drivers start in the front and the slowest at the rear. This is the case in all the classes as far as I know.
Rob

[Steve_Naughton]

Do they really have no qualifying in the pro classes?????

CORR does have qualifying for starting positions. It takes place in the morning and the starting positions for the races are based on the qualifying results. Fastest qualifier gets the poll (except for the Sportsman 2's, I think they started them in the back regardless where they qualify)

When I say CORR ought to implement qualifying and professional standards in their top pro class, what I mean is they ought to define a TRUE HONEST TOP PRO CLASS. The top pro class should be hard to reach, it should require skill, talent, and ability. Only the best-of-the-best should be allowed to compete in the top pro class. That to me is what I would define as a real professional genuine product, the product that you would want to take to the masses. That's the product that fans and sponsors are going to take serious.

And before everyone misinterprets my post for the 100th time, I want to clarify that I'm not saying that there shouldn't be trophy karts, buggies, lites, non-professional drivers, etc... There should MOST DEFINITELY be "b" mains and classes for people to hone their skills. And Harley... I understand your point that some of the best drivers are in Single Buggy. I completely understand that that's a real problem in this type of racing. If I had a spare 10 million lying around, I would build a bunch of Pro-2's and put the best drivers in them. But I'm working on it. I'm drinking milk and saving my pennies.

And if we can't get all the top drivers from buggy, lites, P2 and P4 all competing against each other in one awesome Pro-2 class, then maybe CORR ought to really consider making Single Buggy the main event. MY POINT is to get the top drivers competing against each other. That's THE SHOW that I think will help CORR grow to the mainstream.



Ok... now here's the part where 5 people make posts asking why I think there should only be pro's in CORR (if that's what you think I said, then please read the last paragraph again)

[Dan McMillin]

Scenario: What if I wanted to race Pro-Lite, but didn't want to waste my time in a "B" main and wanted to race with the "pros" in the "A" main?

[Mary Kay]

Scenario: What if I wanted to race Pro-Lite, but didn't want to waste my time in a "B" main and wanted to race with the "pros" in the "A" main?

i can answer this one....qualify on time into the "A" main:)

[michael_loomis]

C'mon Steve, its only been about 98 times!

Dan, thats where the qualifying comes in buddy.. you run fast times, your in the main.. you run slow times, your in the "B" with the rest of the deep pocket racers, until you improve enough to make the "A".

[Pro2-54]

Scenario: What if I wanted to race Pro-Lite, but didn't want to waste my time in a "B" main and wanted to race with the "pros" in the "A" main?

Dan you didn't just ask that question did you (you're not home schooled are you?) In case you hit submit on accident here is your answer.
Qualify in the top 22, you could do that in your desert 1600 on 3 cylinders.

[michael_loomis]

Dan you didn't just ask that question did you (you're not home schooled are you?) In case you hit submit on accident here is your answer.
Qualify in the top 22, you could do that in your desert 1600 on 3 cylinders.

So Rob, your admitting that the single buggies are as fast or faster than Prolites? LOL

Kidding!!

[Steve_Naughton]

Scenario: What if I wanted to race Pro-Lite, but didn't want to waste my time in a "B" main and wanted to race with the "pros" in the "A" main?

1. Hire a good builder to build you a quality Pro Lite

2. Go to the Rob Mac school of driving

3. Put together a good crew and learn everything you can about your truck

4. Rent SpeedWorld and do as much testing as you can

5. Go out to CORR and give it your all. And if you don't qualify for the A main the first time out, don't give up. Keep pushing until you reach the top of the podium in the A main and Ken Stout is saying "that guy is awwwwsome baby!"

[Pro2-54]

So Rob, your admitting that the single buggies are as fast or faster than Prolites? LOL

Kidding!!

No but a lot of the drivers are.

The ultimate race would be the top 5 single buggy drivers, the top 5 prolite, top 5 Pro buggy's, top 5 pro 2's and the top 5 Pro 4 drivers all lined up together in You pick the vehicle. Now that would be a great race to watch.

[Dan McMillin]

Dan you didn't just ask that question did you (you're not home schooled are you?) In case you hit submit on accident here is your answer.
Qualify in the top 22, you could do that in your desert 1600 on 3 cylinders.

Rob, Top 22? What do you mean? I thought the topic was splitting up the class into an A and a B main. I did not know that there were more than 22 Pro-Lite teams racing CORR. If the A main that you guys are talking about consists of 22 racers, then sorry for the post. Your right, my 1600 car could definitely qualify on 3 cylinders. LOL I just thought maybe it would only have the Top 10 fastest Pro-Lite drivers only. I am new the CORR thing, so sorry. And I'm not home schooled. LOL :D

[michael_loomis]

No but a lot of the drivers are.

The ultimate race would be the top 5 single buggy drivers, the top 5 prolite, top 5 Pro buggy's, top 5 pro 2's and the top 5 Pro 4 drivers all lined up together in You pick the vehicle. Now that would be a great race to watch.


Agreed..

and if we could figure out a way to get the economy better and get factory $$ involved again, this could be a reality.

[Pro2-54]

Rob, Top 22? What do you mean? I thought the topic was splitting up the class into an A and a B main. I did not know that there were more than 22 Pro-Lite teams racing CORR. If the A main that you guys are talking about consists of 22 racers, then sorry for the post. Your right, my 1600 car could definitely qualify on 3 cylinders. LOL I just thought maybe it would only have the Top 10 fastest Pro-Lite drivers only. I am new the CORR thing, so sorry. And I'm not home schooled. LOL :D

Originally Corr wanted to have an A and B main with the Top 20 to 22 in the A, With truck counts at 28 to 30 it would make more sense to just split the field and run the two mains.
And as far as the top 5 from each class going head to head, I vote for we race in Trophy Karts.

[Steve_Naughton]

And as far as the top 5 from each class going head to head, I vote for we race in Trophy Karts.

I hope they fly Robby Gordon in for this one.

The top drivers competing head to head in Trophy Karts would probably be the most anticipated, most watched event ever at CORR. Hopefully they do land rush start!

[dan200]

I hope they fly Robby Gordon in for this one.

The top drivers competing head to head in Trophy Karts would probably be the most anticipated, most watched event ever at CORR. Hopefully they do land rush start!


In this case would the top trophy kart kids be eligible too? I would love to see a twelve year old come in a spank a bunch of you guys:rolleyes:

[1wayne]

Buggies are what it's all about boys...Buggies started the 4 wheel off road revolution and they continue to be the platform of seat time for most racers.

If your favorite hero wasn't born with or married into a bunch of money then I'll bet that he or she came up through the buggy ranks.....

Single buggy,1/2 1600, 5/1600 even 9 and 11 cars teach people how to drive. Anyone can hop in a huge high horsepower truck and outspend people and have a great amount of success.

The back bone of off road racing is buggies.

Oh yeah....Just a thought. If you were to look at just the tube frame of your favorite race truck would it look more like a buggy or a Ford Ranger......HA HA HA HA....Trucks, yeah right!!!

Buggies rule!

Rob Mac in that Red thingy mabob is pretty cool though....

Buggies do rule am with you Nimrod!