Some real data on B. Hussein

[pjc]

I know the Obama fans will immediately sling inuendos and veiled arguments against this post but, here goes anywaze.


We are witnessing a political phenomenon with Barack Obama of rare magnitude. His speeches have inspired millions and yet most of his followers have no idea of what he stands for except platitudes of "Change" or that he says he will be a "Uniter".

The power of speech from a charismatic person truly can be a powerful thing. Certainly Billy Graham had charisma and both his manner of speech and particularly the content changed millions.

On the extreme other hand, the charisma of Adolph Hitler inspired millions and the results were catastrophic. Barack Obama certainly is no Hitler or a Billy Graham, but for many Americans out there feeling just like a surfer who might be ecstatic and euphoric while riding a tidal wave, the real story is what happens when it hits shore.

Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

* He voted against banning partial birth abortion.
* He voted No on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
* Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government.
* In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing.
* Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
* Admitted marijuana and cocaine use in high school and in college.
* His religious convictions are very murky.
* He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
* Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with all Muslim nations.
* Opposed the Patriot Act.
* First bill he signed that was passed was campaign finance reform.
* Voted No on prohibiting law suits against gun manufacturers.
* Supports universal health-care.
* Voted Yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
* Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
* Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
* Voted Yes on comprehensive immigration reform.
* Voted Yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
* Wants to make the minimum wage a "living wage".
* Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes.
* Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
* Opposed to any efforts to privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid.
* He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax
* He voted No on repealing the "Death" Tax
* He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax.
* Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded.
* He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in the Senate today and that takes some doing.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

He sounds like a Democrat, what is news here?

[MiSsKuSKiE]

I'm republican, therefore I'm not voting for him. Nor Hilary, they both suck in my personal opinion. All I hear out of their mouths is yadda yadda yadda. I don't like John McCain either, I guess I'm out of luck.

[JrSyko]

I'm not sure how even you PJC you could be unhappy with some of those? Illegal immigration reform? Campaign finance reform? Separation of Church and State? I understand some of your liberal grievences on that list but some of those you should commend him for.

On a separate note, you get so worked up about his religious convictions however the list you just offered up as evidence supporting what a horrible person he is states he is a big believer in the separation of Church and State. So what the hell does it matter then?

[DEZERTSUB]

Illegal Immigration reform:

Fancy words for AMNESTY. Every time you read about a newly proposed "illegal immigration reform", it's amnesty. Nothing short of rewarding bad behavior.

Sorry for speaking for you Pat, but I was sure our answers would be the same!

[Mot51560]

I can't wait for November.

[pjc]

I'm not sure how even you PJC you could be unhappy with some of those? Illegal immigration reform? Campaign finance reform? Separation of Church and State? I understand some of your liberal grievences on that list but some of those you should commend him for.


His idea of Illegal Immigration Reform is detailed in other points, all of which I disagree with. Campaign Finance reform has almost completely backfired where the likes of Billionaires like George Soros pull the strings.



On a separate note, you get so worked up about his religious convictions however the list you just offered up as evidence supporting what a horrible person he is states he is a big believer in the separation of Church and State.


Another lame attempt to twist fact. Travis, Hussien B's church is more about radical racism than Christianity. That's one church that should never be front and center.

[Alex Paterson]

I know you like using his middle name because it has been used by "bad" people, but have you ever looked up the meaning to it?

"Husayn, Hussein, Hossain, Hussain, Husain, Hosein (Arabic:حسین Turkish: Hüseyin), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, after Husayn ibn Ali, although the name is so common it is also given to persons of secular backgrounds. In some Persian sources the form Háosayn is used"


OMG, call the National Guard, it means Handsome! Hide the women and children, board up the windows, its a handsome boy taking over....

I mean, Think about it, the name "John" is a common term used by prostitutes for the men they service, so does this make John McCain a no good prostitute user, it must, its his name?

My name stands for defender of Mankind, that should explain somethings!

Besides, what do I know, I am a no good useless hippie liberal...one of them free speakers....actually, my reply is all in fun, I don't get involved in here anymore, takes all the fun out RDC.

-Alex

[bajafox]

I mean, Think about it, the name "John" is a common term used by prostitutes for the men they service, so does this make John McCain a no good prostitute user, it must, its his name?

-Alex

It also means "toilet":D

[scott-dsms]

Besides, what do I know, I am a no good useless hippie liberal...one of them free speakers....actually, my reply is all in fun, I don't get involved in here anymore, takes all the fun out RDC.

-Alex

Aww C'mon...You don't find this fun? Debate and the free exchange of ideas. All the funny stories, point's of view etc...RDC is a true melting pot and very entertaining. Jump in and join the fray.

[Big Hock]

That's one church that should never be front and center.

NO CHURCH should be front and center. That's the point of America, or at least originally it was...

[JrSyko]

NO CHURCH should be front and center. That's the point of America, or at least originally it was...

Exactly, once again he missed the point.

[JrSyko]

His idea of Illegal Immigration Reform is detailed in other points, all of which I disagree with. Campaign Finance reform has almost completely backfired where the likes of Billionaires like George Soros pull the strings.

You are literally the most cynical and self-centered person I know. Its either your way or the highway because you know all. Moveover, the list you posted in an attempt to show what a bad President BO would make are almost entirely comprised on matters of deep personal conviction, so what you may see as a horrible belief for a President to possess, others might find extremely attractive. It was definitely your weakest attempt yet to discredit the man. You must be running out of mud because you're better than that!

[pjc]

You are literally the most cynical and self-centered person I know. Its either your way or the highway because you know all.


Is that your lame rebuttal?

Jeeze, all I did is refer to the facts about his record.



Moveover[sic], the list you posted in an attempt to show what a bad President BO would make are almost entirely comprised on matters of deep personal conviction, so what you may see as a horrible belief for a President to possess, others might find extremely attractive. It was definitely your weakest attempt yet to discredit the man. You must be running out of mud because you're better than that!

---> "Deep Personal Conviction" is not catalyst for always being right.

Now, let's take two points to see if you can stick to the topics at hand instead of your pathetic and lame diversions steeped in rank arrogance.

As posted, BHO:

* Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
* Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

Do you think both are good ideas?

[DEZERTSUB]

You are literally the most cynical and self-centered person I know. Its either your way or the highway because you know all.

PSSHHHH!!!

Come on man, coming from YOU, that holds as much water as a shattered drinking glass.

[HotRod82]

I am completely disgusted with all of the candidates and will most likely not even vote this time around. One thing I do find amusing is how everyone is whining about the price of fuel yet no one seems to care that ALL of the candidates (ESPECIALLY OBAMA) support global warming legilation that will drive up the price of fuel even further. If the dems get the white house everyone that makes over 100K will see a 15% hike in taxes. If the reps get in, we will see corruption and business as usual in DC...we are screwed either way. And to think I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of person.......oh well, maybe in 2012 we will see a viable third party emerge from the darkness.

[kenaroo]

I am completely disgusted with all of the candidates and will most likely not even vote this time around. One thing I do find amusing is how everyone is whining about the price of fuel yet no one seems to care that ALL of the candidates (ESPECIALLY OBAMA) support global warming legilation that will drive up the price of fuel even further. If the dems get the white house everyone that makes over 100K will see a 15% hike in taxes. If the reps get in, we will see corruption and business as usual in DC...we are screwed either way. And to think I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of person.......oh well, maybe in 2012 we will see a viable third party emerge from the darkness.


I so much agree.. I'm just so bummed out where our goverment is and may be going.

can we just blow it up and start over??? I dought that would work either.

[Alex Paterson]

I am completely disgusted with all of the candidates and will most likely not even vote this time around. One thing I do find amusing is how everyone is whining about the price of fuel yet no one seems to care that ALL of the candidates (ESPECIALLY OBAMA) support global warming legilation that will drive up the price of fuel even further. If the dems get the white house everyone that makes over 100K will see a 15% hike in taxes. If the reps get in, we will see corruption and business as usual in DC...we are screwed either way. And to think I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of person.......oh well, maybe in 2012 we will see a viable third party emerge from the darkness.

You are throwing out your right as an American if you don't vote. If anything can be learned from these threads is the need to get out and vote. I think pjc may even agree with me on this one ;)

Alex

[JrSyko]

Is that your lame rebuttal?

Jeeze, all I did is refer to the facts about his record.



---> "Deep Personal Conviction" is not catalyst for always being right.

Now, let's take two points to see if you can stick to the topics at hand instead of your pathetic and lame diversions steeped in rank arrogance.

As posted, BHO:

* Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
* Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

Do you think both are good ideas?

I support giving driver's licenses to illegals with a caveat. I'd grant them a driver's license (subject to a verification of the information they've provide) however if they did not become a citizen within 2 years from the date of issuance then it gets revoked. At this point we'd have all their information and if they're not a citizen by then we can go deport them. Illegals are going to drive whether they have a license or not, at least by granting them one they are forced to comply with the regulations that go a long with having a license and we have their information.

I do not support granting welfare to illegal immigrants though and am in complete disagreement with BO on that one. You have to draw the line somewhere.

[Vtr_Racing]

So whats "fair" about exposing some individuals about their reason of wanting to become President of our great land? With Barack Hussain Obama there seems to be a number of "dont go there" items. In particular on this message board at least, one being his association with his Church he belongs to. Another being those he associates with. Still another being his wife. (She interjects herself as we have seen) The reason (I think) that those are coming to light is because he doesnt have much of a record so you have to go by those things to try and figure out the guy. Its all fair game in my opinion.
At a recent speech in Oregon, Mr Obama spoke about the Hanford Nuclear waste dump. He said, he didnt know much about it and he would learn more about it on the ride back to the airport. (The Handford Site is being cleaned up and is a old site for Nuclear waste)
He must have had to vote on this clean up issue! I cant belive that he would not know about the place having had to auth some money to pay for the clean up!
A lie of ommission of just forgot about it? I have no idea.
Its ok to question this man and anybody else wanting to lead this country.

[pjc]

You are throwing out your right as an American if you don't vote. If anything can be learned from these threads is the need to get out and vote. I think pjc may even agree with me on this one ;)

Alex

10-4 !!!

[pjc]

I support giving driver's licenses to illegals with a caveat. I'd grant them a driver's license (subject to a verification of the information they've provide) however if they did not become a citizen within 2 years from the date of issuance then it gets revoked. At this point we'd have all their information and if they're not a citizen by then we can go deport them. Illegals are going to drive whether they have a license or not, at least by granting them one they are forced to comply with the regulations that go a long with having a license and we have their information.


I disagree, only green card carrying immigrants (permanent or migratory) should be allowed to posses a license. If they drive without one they are arrested and deported.

Worse, an illegal with a valid DL can vote in states that support the motor-voter laws. That is simply wrong.



I do not support granting welfare to illegal immigrants though and am in complete disagreement with BO on that one. You have to draw the line somewhere.

10-4. What I woudl like to see in order:

1) Secure the borders
2) Write draconian laws that punish employers of illegals
3) Grant amnesty for the hordes that are here and force them into one of the following categories within 6 months or they are deported.
4) Create an accessible but strict migrant worker program with high taxes on the workers and no workman's comp, SS, health care etc etc etc.
5) Create a path to citizenship for migrants free of the extra taxes and burdens mentioned in #4 yet with traditional perks of citizens. Give them 2 years to comply and to renounce their foreign citizenship in total or they are back in #4.

[TreyP]

I disagree, only green card carrying immigrants (permanent or migratory) should be allowed to posses a license. If they drive without one they are arrested and deported.

Worse, an illegal with a valid DL can vote in states that support the motor-voter laws. That is simply wrong.

Agreed



1) Secure the borders

How many more goverment jobs do we need? And at what cost? Have you been to mex lately it is just too big of a pain to come home.



2) Write draconian laws that punish employers of illegals

While I agree with the sentiment, again who's going to pay for it? More taxes maybe?


3) Grant amnesty for the hordes that are here and force them into one of the following categories within 6 months or they are deported.
4) Create an accessible but strict migrant worker program with high taxes on the workers and no workman's comp, SS, health care etc etc etc.

Maybe this is the tax base you are looking at. Sounds like it is another way for people to hide from the system, also who is going to benefit from this system? Employers that will exploit these people? Don't say it won't happen, you know it will.


5) Create a path to citizenship for migrants free of the extra taxes and burdens mentioned in #4 yet with traditional perks of citizens. Give them 2 years to comply and to renounce their foreign citizenship in total or they are back in #4.
This could work, but then you still have the burden of who is worthy. And who is going to pay to watch over them? More government agencies? We all know how efficient they are.


Now my turn and you can answer this in a seperate post if you wish.

From your OP points.


* Admitted marijuana and cocaine use in high school and in college.

About time someone in politics admitted to thier real past. The last two tapdanced around the issue and that really pissed me off. Knew at that point they were both liars.

The question is: Is he doing it know?


* Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

And this is a bad thing how?

I'll go two at a time too just to keep it simple for all.:cool:

[pjc]

How many more goverment jobs do we need? And at what cost? Have you been to mex lately it is just too big of a pain to come home.


Nothing else matters if a fundamental and real barrier is not in place.

We have a problem that is real yet, can become an asset. Our country has always been about immigration. We need to control the borders but open up same for the people that will add to our soceity, economy and culture.

Try to immigrate to New Zealand or Australia and you'll see the same, worthy parameters



Maybe this is the tax base you are looking at. Sounds like it is another way for people to hide from the system, also who is going to benefit from this system? Employers that will exploit these people? Don't say it won't happen, you know it will.


At the base, employers have to hire legal workers. The tax bracket is simply higher for these people if they do not want to be on a track to US citizenship. Right now the migrants send a large if not nearly all of their income back home. The commodity is them, not the work, so I say "tax them" and make them pay for every single service in this country that they use.



This could work, but then you still have the burden of who is worthy. And who is going to pay to watch over them? More government agencies? We all know how efficient they are.


Worthy = those that can fill jobs where we have demand. The US Health care industry has a huge shortfall right now. Those that hire the talent then need from abroad are already working fundamentally to watch over and or mentor these people. This could easily be extended.




About time someone in politics admitted to thier real past. The last two tapdanced around the issue and that really pissed me off. Knew at that point they were both liars.

The question is: Is he doing it know?

And this is a bad thing how?

I'll go two at a time too just to keep it simple for all.:cool:

Any candidate for POTUS is wide open to examination of every thing about them and if their spouses are politically vocal then they too are under the scope.

Those of us with the intelligence to reject his revival tent platitudes can and will only judge him by his record and therefore nothing he says about the future has substance - whatsoever.

Fundamentally, BHO's ties with Rev Wright alone will be his downfall let alone his complete lack of a platform to deal with todays issues past his myopic "Carterisms" - which simply won't fly.

I await the campaign add where he says "I can't disown him....." interspersed with Wright's radical racisms after the fact. This will be pretty damn stark!

[Alex Paterson]

Illigals should be allowed to become citizens and pay into our system just like the rest of us and once this happens then give them the ability to legally drive and vote. Not that cart in front of the horse.

Alex

[TreyP]

Any candidate for POTUS is wide open to examination of every thing about them and if their spouses are politically vocal then they too are under the scope.

Those of us with the intelligence to reject his revival tent platitudes can and will only judge him by his record and therefore nothing he says about the future has substance - whatsoever.

Fundamentally, BHO's ties with Rev Wright alone will be his downfall let alone his complete lack of a platform to deal with todays issues past his myopic "Carterisms" - which simply won't fly.

I await the campaign add where he says "I can't disown him....." interspersed with Wright's radical racisms after the fact. This will be pretty damn stark!

You totally skirted my questions.

Once again (try to stay on topic and subject)


Quote:* Admitted marijuana and cocaine use in high school and in college.

About time someone in politics admitted to thier real past. The last two tapdanced around the issue and that really pissed me off. Knew at that point they were both liars.

The question is: Is he doing it know?


Quote:* Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

And this is a bad thing how?

[pjc]

You totally skirted my questions.

Once again (try to stay on topic and subject)

You are not bring clear. I am trying to be.

1) I don't give a rats ass about GW's very ancient drug abuse.

2) I do care about BHO's recent track record as a state and US senator.

Now if you are looking for more of what I think please be more distinct on your questions.

[TreyP]

You are not bring clear. I am trying to be.

1) I don't give a rats ass about GW's very ancient drug abuse.

2) I do care about BHO's recent track record as a state and US senator.

Now if you are looking for more of what I think please be more distinct on your questions.

I was being very clear on my post. I was addressing your points in the OP.

Address those points or do you not believe in them? The questions are simple. Or what is is about my questions that you don't understand?

[DEZERTSUB]

Illigals should be allowed to become citizens and pay into our system just like the rest of us and once this happens then give them the ability to legally drive and vote. Not that cart in front of the horse.

Alex

Negative dude. If you GIVE something to someone who began their life in our country by breaking our laws to be here, what kind of message does that send???

It's my opinion that mandantory workplace verification would be the most effective action we can take to discourage people from coming here. Think about it this way....would you still log on to RDC if no one else interacted with you???
That simple, take away what they come for, they won't wanna stay. FINE EMPLOYERS who hire illegals. If they lose their business, home, oh well. Cheating to get ahead in this country is not what it was founded on.

[MattV]

The main problem is that too many people have forgotten what the real role of the federal government is. Only three things, really:

Provide for common defense
Promote (not hinder, regulate into oblivion, etc.) interstate commerce
Provide a single point for dealing with foreign powers

Everything else is our responsibility.

That's it. Nothing else. This means there should be no social security, welfare, department of education and countless other things that have come to be nothing more than a waste of money or a government run ponzi scheme. And still, many people want more. All this does is concentrate power at the federal level and take it away from where it belongs-with us. So much of what I see some people supporting makes no sense to me. We have a government that can't manage its own financial affairs, so naturally we want them in control of our retirement and health care, right?

[pjc]

I was being very clear on my post. I was addressing your points in the OP.

Address those points or do you not believe in them? The questions are simple. Or what is is about my questions that you don't understand?

Again, be more clear.

You ask "Is he doing it now"? Who ???

On "separation of Church and State". Of course I believe in this unfortunately, the left (in lock step) is rushing to establish "Global Warming" as the foundation of an eco-religion as the state religion. BHO is no exception.

[therail]

* Voted No on prohibiting law suits against gun manufacturers.
What a B@$T@RD!

[JrSyko]

1) I don't give a rats ass about GW's very ancient drug abuse.



Trey - He did answer it. He doesn't care about GWB's past drug use so he doesn't care about BO's past drug use either. Funny how he'd include it in a list of things why BO shouldn't be POTUS, seems pretty hypocritical but I've come to expect that from PJC. ;-)

[pjc]

Trey - He did answer it. He doesn't care about GWB's past drug use so he doesn't care about BO's past drug use either. Funny how he'd include it in a list of things why BO shouldn't be POTUS, seems pretty hypocritical but I've come to expect that from PJC. ;-)

I reposted an article Travis. Now lets get back on topic.

I know it's hard to defend BHO and you'd rather spend your time diverting from the situation but, I am open to your attempts to support BHO..

[Vtr_Racing]

Illigals should be allowed to become citizens and pay into our system just like the rest of us and once this happens then give them the ability to legally drive and vote. Not that cart in front of the horse.

Alex

They can. You go stand in line and fill out the forms like everybody else who is not a citizen. Im not understanding why this is such a problem for people to do. Its a process that has to be done. Not a secret.
There are other ways to do it and I think you know what they are.
Is this the "CHANGE" that Mr Obama wants?

[bajafox]

They can. You go stand in line and fill out the forms like everybody else who is not a citizen. Im not understanding why this is such a problem for people to do. Its a process that has to be done. Not a secret.
There are other ways to do it and I think you know what they are.

Have you done this process? I have, it took more than 2 years for it to complete. Of course this was beween 1996-1998, 10 years later with so much technology, I don't think anything has changed.

[pjc]

Have you done this process? I have, it took more than 2 years for it to complete. Of course this was beween 1996-1998, 10 years later with so much technology, I don't think anything has changed.

And that is unfortunate.

I am for streamlining the process for immigrants who can fill professional and technical jobs that are in demand.

[JrSyko]

I reposted an article Travis. Now lets get back on topic.

I know it's hard to defend BHO and you'd rather spend your time diverting from the situation but, I am open to your attempts to support BHO..

So you reposted an article that you don't necessarily believe in just in attempt to slam BO and try and persuade more people from voting for him? Wow, cast some light on all the other BS you post about him.

[pjc]

So you reposted an article that you don't necessarily believe in just in attempt to slam BO and try and persuade more people from voting for him? Wow, cast some light on all the other BS you post about him.

I believe every point is an issue. Some are damning, some not so.

I gotta pack to the MORE night race and to shake down the Jimco for V2R. Hasta.

[miguelitro]

I agree with alot that BO is for and you are against, but I still am not voting for him. Do you know how hard it is for a non liberal democrat to decide who to vote for this election? Well, with hillary and BO its not that hard but it doesn't feel right.
By the way I have been an elementary teacher for nearly a decade and have recently started my own business, so i like to think i can see both sides.

[Vtr_Racing]

Have you done this process? I have, it took more than 2 years for it to complete. Of course this was beween 1996-1998, 10 years later with so much technology, I don't think anything has changed.
No I havent, but, neither of my parents are American citizens. They have been here longer than most peoples age on this message board, legally BTW. You dont like the process? Thats a completly different argument. There is a process nonetheless. So congratulations to you and welcome to the US. Im glad you went about it the right way.

[bajafox]

And that is unfortunate.

I am for streamlining the process for immigrants who can fill professional and technical jobs that are in demand.

And weed out the one's who do the real work like buss your tables, wash your dishes, serve your food, flip your burgers? I don't see anyone else stepping up for that. I was a waiter for 6 years and I've collected many many applications for my managers during that time, I can tell you who's willing to do those jobs and who's not.


No I havent, but, neither of my parents are American citizens. They have been here longer than most peoples age on this message board, legally BTW. You dont like the process? Thats a completly different argument. There is a process nonetheless. So congratulations to you and welcome to the US. Im glad you went about it the right way.

The process has no effect on me now whatsoever, my mom put in the application thinking I could be naturalized since she is a citizen, but two years later it took so long to process that I had become an adult, I had to go through the adult process and take a test. Sounds efficient doesn't it?


So congratulations to you and welcome to the US. Im glad you went about it the right way.

Thank you, I was born in Mexico but was brought here legally via a "green card" before I was even a year old. The funny thing is when my mom told me she had applied for me to become a US Citizen, I objected heavily, I was young and in my mind I thought it wouldn't make me Mexican anymore, something I was and am very proud to be.

[Jeepspeedster]

I am a Republican, father and supportive of two min wage earning collage age kids, and sick of the mess we are in now.
I agree with most of his point of view. and not much value others are offering.
Go Hussain!!!

[Infidel Racing Team]

.......Of course I believe in this unfortunately.......

Why the "Unfortunately" part? .....Arent you convinced?




............. the left (in lock step) is rushing to establish "Global Warming" as the foundation of an eco-religion as the state religion. BHO is no exception.

Pat,

Here I find some common ground with you.....Religion Sucks: You shall be known from today on as Infidel Pat :p

All Religions are poisonous, that be a militant Muslim ,a Bible thumping inquisitor or a pyromaniac tree hugging Hippie ….

I don’t subscribe to any religion, but I am convinced by the evidence there is a change in the climate patterns (you have also admitted to that) with the difference I think we humans are an important contributing factor, (not the only one, but surely an important one)

[Vtr_Racing]

Religion Sucks: You shall be known from today on as Infidel Pat :p

All Religions are poisonous, that be a militant Muslim ,a Bible thumping inquisitor or a pyromaniac tree hugging Hippie ….

I don’t subscribe to any religion,
I hope that someday you would find God, He is always there. Maybe you have I dont know. Thats between you and God.As you say, in your mind, all religion sucks. I guess I agree that in the context of Politics, Religion does suck, but, God does not. However, I look at it as freedom of religion not freedom from religion. You have extremes on both end of the spectrum that cloud the real message. Christianity has been and always will be under scrutiny and I think, always will be. Thats where you have coalitions to put pressure on Politicians, to keep things in check. Just like any other group.

[Infidel Racing Team]

I hope that someday you would find God, He is always there. Maybe you have I dont know.

Marc,

I respect the right everyone has to choose their religion of choice; nevertheless I don’t respect religion itself....just the right every free person has to choose.

I might appear stone cold and spiritually empty when I have such harsh words towards organized religion.....but believe me, I have never been happier in my life and full of humanity. I do not fear nor expect any heavenly favor for my conduct….I am genuinely convinced to be a good person because it is inheritably the right thing to do.

My same words would have scared the heck out of me 5 years ago, when I was intellectually a coward to really explore and analyze with scrutiny the Catholic Church and the Bible…...

I have met the most wonderful, intelligent and altruistic Agnostic / Atheist people in my quest….I have broken my emotional dependency with my imaginary friend and I am proud to be an Agnostic.

I am sure every person has doubts of their faith, even mother Theresa has confessed through her letters she had a lack of faith.
What differentiates us is how we pursue the search for truth; Mother Theresa forced herself to “believe” through mental blocking more deepening the pit of realization that religion was man made.

I chose a different path, a path more familiar with me as an Engineer…..The search of evidence. Although I didn’t find any evidence of the existence of a creator, I also have to admit I didnt found conclusive evidence he doesn’t exist, hence my Agnostic position.

In any rate, without conclusive evidence both ways, the question of the existence of a God then became a question of what is the probability that God exist…..After reading many texts from great minds, you can actually see how our Bible (theoretically the word of God) was actually influenced and blatantly a plagiarist copy of more ancient text from earlier religions and myths. I could attest how “man made” the Yahweh myth was.

To conclude, I have never considered myself 100% Atheist, I am an Agnostic open to new evidence, which happens to think one thing is for certain: Yahweh and Christ are not God.
If I am wrong, I would think a creator would appreciate my honest quest for truth, than a hypocritical stance based on fear and heavenly rewards.

I like to write long detailed answers when it comes to these subjects, because it was an answer like this that sparked 5 years ago my interest in facing all the contradiction in the faith I was brought up. Nothing excites me more than the possibility of sparking that same spark for someone else even through my clumsy philosophical attempts.

I have attached to this a man who is 1000000X more intelligent and fluent than me, he among many other have influenced me over the years. If the quest of truth leads you believe even more in your faith, that would be awesome too….I love to exchange ideas with people who come to different life conclusion than me. I learn from it…..What I think its intolerable is the people who are intellectually lazy and don’t think much about our purpose or lack of it in the universe…..that I can’t respect.

Ok, the video is here:

Thanks in advance to this long and boring response:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs

[JrSyko]

I hope that someday you would find God, He is always there. Maybe you have I dont know. Thats between you and God.As you say, in your mind, all religion sucks. I guess I agree that in the context of Politics, Religion does suck, but, God does not. However, I look at it as freedom of religion not freedom from religion. You have extremes on both end of the spectrum that cloud the real message. Christianity has been and always will be under scrutiny and I think, always will be. Thats where you have coalitions to put pressure on Politicians, to keep things in check. Just like any other group.

Just because you don't subscribe to a particular religion doesn't mean you don't believe in God.

[Roddd]

I know you like using his middle name because it has been used by "bad" people, but have you ever looked up the meaning to it?....................
I mean, Think about it, the name "John" is a common term used by prostitutes for the men they service, so does this make John McCain a no good prostitute user, it must, its his name?



-Alex

"John" never flew an airplane into the Pentagon.

[Roddd]

You are throwing out your right as an American if you don't vote. If anything can be learned from these threads is the need to get out and vote. I think pjc may even agree with me on this one ;)

Alex

Choosing the lesser of two evils is not throwing out your right as an American. Either way, you are still choosing evil.

[Alex Paterson]

"John" never flew an airplane into the Pentagon.

Here are some bad Johns.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS270US270&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=murders+named+john&spell=1


;)

And for the ones who do not vote, that's fine, just realize you have no say it what happens. Also, at the end of the election someone will be in office whether you voted or not...

Alex

[G_Archer]

13 minutes long, but offers some interesting news bites. Worth a look, then decide for yourself.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE

[R_TAYLOR]

That video is revealing.Thankyou

[Infidel Racing Team]

Journalism ala Michael Moore......just in the opposite political spectrum. No one can take seriously such low quality works.

[DEZERTSUB]

Ahhh Sean Hannity is a much more responsible journalist than Micheal Moore. Hannity reports the news and criticizes the loony leftists, while Moore takes a story, distorts facts and smears whoever he has to in order to promote his own radical agenda.

Not many people agree with what Micheal Moore has done, so I think that's an unfair comparison Gus.

And the so called "reverend" Jerimiah Wright deserves to be attacked for the things he's said about our country.......

[Infidel Racing Team]

Ahhh Sean Hannity is a much more responsible journalist than Micheal Moore. Hannity reports the news and criticizes the loony leftists, while Moore takes a story, distorts facts and smears whoever he has to in order to promote his own radical agenda.

Not many people agree with what Micheal Moore has done, so I think that's an unfair comparison Gus.

And the so called "reverend" Jerimiah Wright deserves to be attacked for the things he's said about our country.......


When you deal with trashy journalism I guess this applies:

Ahhh __________________ is a much more responsible journalist than ____________. _____________________reports the news and criticizes the loony ___________, while ____________takes a story, distorts facts and smears whoever he has to in order to promote his own radical agenda.

Not many people agree with what _____________ has done, so I think that's an unfair comparison ______.

Depends on what side you want to believe in....I chose non of them, both seem quite off reality;)

[Alex Paterson]

Ahhh Sean Hannity is a much more responsible journalist than Micheal Moore. Hannity reports the news and criticizes the loony leftists, while Moore takes a story, distorts facts and smears whoever he has to in order to promote his own radical agenda.

Not many people agree with what Micheal Moore has done, so I think that's an unfair comparison Gus.

And the so called "reverend" Jeremiah Wright deserves to be attacked for the things he's said about our country.......

I have enjoyed Michale Moore's movies, always taken with a grain of salt, but have you seen the documentary about Michale Moore done a few years ago. Its very interesting and shows you just what length Michale Moore has gone to, to sell you his point of view and not the truth.

But, like any media, its always hard to believe anyone these days, you just never know what is real and what is memorex!

Alex

[mustafa]

Marc,

I respect the right everyone has to choose their religion of choice; nevertheless I don’t respect religion itself....just the right every free person has to choose.

I might appear stone cold and spiritually empty when I have such harsh words towards organized religion.....but believe me, I have never been happier in my life and full of humanity. I do not fear nor expect any heavenly favor for my conduct….I am genuinely convinced to be a good person because it is inheritably the right thing to do.

My same words would have scared the heck out of me 5 years ago, when I was intellectually a coward to really explore and analyze with scrutiny the Catholic Church and the Bible…...

I have met the most wonderful, intelligent and altruistic Agnostic / Atheist people in my quest….I have broken my emotional dependency with my imaginary friend and I am proud to be an Agnostic.

I am sure every person has doubts of their faith, even mother Theresa has confessed through her letters she had a lack of faith.
What differentiates us is how we pursue the search for truth; Mother Theresa forced herself to “believe” through mental blocking more deepening the pit of realization that religion was man made.

I chose a different path, a path more familiar with me as an Engineer…..The search of evidence. Although I didn’t find any evidence of the existence of a creator, I also have to admit I didnt found conclusive evidence he doesn’t exist, hence my Agnostic position.

In any rate, without conclusive evidence both ways, the question of the existence of a God then became a question of what is the probability that God exist…..After reading many texts from great minds, you can actually see how our Bible (theoretically the word of God) was actually influenced and blatantly a plagiarist copy of more ancient text from earlier religions and myths. I could attest how “man made” the Yahweh myth was.

To conclude, I have never considered myself 100% Atheist, I am an Agnostic open to new evidence, which happens to think one thing is for certain: Yahweh and Christ are not God.
If I am wrong, I would think a creator would appreciate my honest quest for truth, than a hypocritical stance based on fear and heavenly rewards.

I like to write long detailed answers when it comes to these subjects, because it was an answer like this that sparked 5 years ago my interest in facing all the contradiction in the faith I was brought up. Nothing excites me more than the possibility of sparking that same spark for someone else even through my clumsy philosophical attempts.

I have attached to this a man who is 1000000X more intelligent and fluent than me, he among many other have influenced me over the years. If the quest of truth leads you believe even more in your faith, that would be awesome too….I love to exchange ideas with people who come to different life conclusion than me. I learn from it…..What I think its intolerable is the people who are intellectually lazy and don’t think much about our purpose or lack of it in the universe…..that I can’t respect.

Ok, the video is here:

Thanks in advance to this long and boring response:
YouTube - Authors@Google: Christopher Hitchens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs)


Gustavo,
Very well stated! I could not have said it any better. You have captured my thoughts/beliefs as well. So are you the only agnostic Mexican in your country? j/k

[3G RACING]

It also means "toilet":D

haha.
Porta pottie John Mccain!!
it has a distinctive ring to it.,...
I think I'm going to name my new line of porta potties after this!

[dan200]

I have enjoyed Michale Moore's movies, always taken with a grain of salt, but have you seen the documentary about Michale Moore done a few years ago. Its very interesting and shows you just what length Michale Moore has gone to, to sell you his point of view and not the truth.
Alex, What is the name of this movie? Is it "Manufacturing Dissent?" It sounds worth watching.

[Infidel Racing Team]

Gustavo,
Very well stated! I could not have said it any better. You have captured my thoughts/beliefs as well. So are you the only agnostic Mexican in your country? j/k

LOL....I bet there are more agnostics everywhere than people want to admit:D

Thanks for the kind words;)

[TreyP]

LOL....I bet there are more agnostics everywhere than people want to admit:D


Yep, they're called Moderate Republicans. ;)