cold dead hands, letter to an editor

[hyoctane303]

found this floating around the net. (pirate 4x4)

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot.com/2008/05/vanderboegh-now-thats-letter-to-editor.html



TO: Tom Eblen, a Kentuckian who ought to know better.

Dear Tom,

Let me introduce you to the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Sez you:

"If Second Amendment absolutists keep standing up and daring others to pry their guns from their "cold, dead fingers," eventually somebody's going to do it."

Ah, the big, bad gun "confiscation" boogeyman.

It may scare you. It may scare certain weak-kneed "sportsmen" willing to compromise our rights for theirs. And, perhaps, it may scare some poorly educated children under the age of twelve.

It does NOT scare us, the intended target of your editorial missive. The way we see it, "eventually somebody's going to TRY to do it." Liberals' biggest problem (and perhaps yours as well) is that they're always extrapolating from their own cowardice. They think that if the government told them to do something, they would do it, so everybody else will too.

Wrong.

Let's boil down the threat of gun confiscation to its mathematical essence:

1. There are as many guns in this country as there are people, something close to 300 million.

2. No matter what law you pass, some percentage of American gun owners will refuse to give theirs up, even if the penalty for doing so is death. Shall we say 3 percent of 100 million gun owners? That's the same percentage as active combatants in our first Revolution, so let's say that's 3 million "pry it from my cold dead hands" types.

3. Now, I'm sure you will agree (intellectually at least) that a man who is willing to die for his beliefs is most often somebody who is willing to kill for them too. This being the case . . .

4. When the government comes to take these citizens' guns, the citizens -- these 3 percenters -- will do their dead level best to kill the thugs sent to do so. Some of them will realize that killing the bureaucrats who sent the thugs is probably a good idea too, so a number of bureaucrats will die. Some of these citizens will also realize the justice of killing the tyrant politicians who told the bureaucrats to send the thugs, and that's even more dead added to the butcher's bill.

On a more personal note, an even smaller (yet still significant) percentage of these citizens will remember that Bill Clinton expanded the laws of warfare in the 90's to include the news media of your enemy as a legitimate target of war, so a number of reporters, editorial writers (uh, what did you say you do for a living?), anti-gun bloggers, and perceived "traitors to the Republic" will die as well, even if (as I'm sure it is in your case) they don't deserve it. I mean, I'd never shoot an editorial writer myself, I have too much love for the 1st Amendment. However, there are others out there who doubtless lack my scruples, especially when they're being shot at themselves. And since Bubba Bill already said it was OK, they'll think, "Hey, why not?"

All told, gunnies and gun grabbers, the casualties will be at least in the low millions making it the worst war America has ever fought -- indeed, the dead would total more than all of America's wars combined. This is especially true since we "cold dead hands types" intend to make it more than a one-to-one ratio. And, you may remember, we're the ones with the firearms already at hand and the ones more likely to know how to use them effectively.

5. Given that, and we understand it even if you don't, please refrain from trying to scare us "bitter enders" into compromising our God given rights. It can't be done. You can't convince us, you can't intimidate us and we're not going away. You can kill us, but you can't change our minds. Thus, stacking up millions of dead bodies in your proposed civil war seems an odd way to ensure "public safety," especially if one of those bodies is unintentionally yours. Is this really what you had in mind?

Welcome to the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Sometimes, my young editorialist, there IS no principled middle ground and to stand there is to invite being shot at by both sides with equal gusto -- and I don't mean by mere words and phrases.

Thus endeth the lesson. I hope now that I've explained things in the light of day that you'll recover soon from your silly fright at the big, bad, bogus boogeyman of gun confiscation.

Because it ain't happenin' - not without the worst bloody fight you can possibly imagine.

Have a nice day. ;-)

Mike Vanderboegh

[therail]

If the first amendment were as watered down as the second, we'd be reduced to vowels.

3%

[dan200]

If the first amendment were as watered down as the second, we'd be reduced to vowels.

3%

Well Put

[Mike @ pit b]

Well I am an American, and will fight to the death anybody who tries to restrain my rights as an American. On that note I don't believe the target of gun restraint or gun control is your average sportsman. It's the damn gangbangers with drivebys shootings and killing of innoscent people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It is your right to own all the guns you want. But this is about the only amendment that Bush hasn't wipe his ass. (I'm not a dem. I'm independent)

Illegal wiretaps ring a bell.

I'm not bashing guns. I'm pissed that this is the only thing this guy is complaning about. The second amendment is only one of many.

If you want to go ahead and bash me, go ahead, it's not going to change my mind.

These are my thoughts and feelings alone. No one else's.

Mike

P.S.-I've never heard of a driveby knifing.

[therail]

It's the damn gangbangers with drivebys shootings and killing of innoscent people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Absolutely that's the goal. But since they don't follow the laws anyhow, doing drive-by's and all, thus we should arm the public to shoot back; anyone with measurable brain activity would think twice.

[scott-dsms]

On that note I don't believe the target of gun restraint or gun control is your average sportsman. It's the damn gangbangers with drivebys shootings and killing of innoscent people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Exsqueeze me...The anti-gunners claim that it's the gang-bangers, criminals etc...that are the target of gun restraint and IMO that's just not the case. The notion sounds good and feels right..."Yeah were only taking guns from criminals" The problem with that logic is...Criminals don't obey laws, that is why they are criminals. Gun laws - gun restraint only serves to disarm law abiding citizens.

Example, DC has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, yet they also have one of the highest murder rates as well. Go figure. A crook doesn't give a rats ayse about a law or a ban. If you outlaw guns only criminals will have them.

My .02 - Laters and have a great day!

[Stimpy]

The differance between being governed and being ruled? The right to bar arms!


Mexico is an example of how banning guns doesn't work! Mexico has the highest kidnapping rate in the world. The bad guys have guns and use them! The recent problems that we racers have had is a perfect example. A bad guy with a automatic weapon is ultra powerful when the genneral public is un-armed. Arm the public and at least they have a fighting chance.
A bad guy walks into market pulls out his gun and robs the place. Knowing the shop keeper can't stop him. San Diego last week. Bad guy walks into coin shop and pulls out gun and trys to rob it. Shoots bolth clerks. The catch ? The shop keepers pull thier own weapons and shoot robber. They bolth lived. Robber died! It sucks they were shot. However do you think anybodys gonna try to rob them again?

Just my 2 cents.....Stimp

[Laurie]

The day I can complete trust my government to not abuse power is the day I'll turn our guns over to them. And we know that's not going to happen. The only way a government is held accountable is by it's citizens is if they have the power to defend themselves. Did we not learn the lessons of Hitler?

As far as gangbangers having guns. Do we not know a gun can be made in any garage? It's not rocket science. I don't know the satistics but my guess would be that at least 90% of guns being used in crimes by gangbangers are illegal now. Why would that change? Would the criminals not still have them? And only the honest citizens wouldn't be able to defend themselves from them.


Just my two cents.

[Tom_Willis]

Suppose you are a single mother whose only job opportunity was a late shift in a bad part of town. Suppose you had to choose either the "luxury" of owning a car OR being able to afford a two-bedroom apartment when you only make enough for a studio apartment. Would you be more concerned with living long enough to see your kids grow up or following laws voted on by people like Ted Kennedy, (who has armed bodyguards 24/7 and a bullet-proof limo). You know if you are caught carrying a concealed weapon you could lose everything for basically just trying to not be raped or killed on your way home every night. The irony here is that the reason you NEED some sort of protection is that the same people who scream out for gun control refuse to "control" criminals in the first place.

[tkr]

Suppose you are a single mother whose only job opportunity was a late shift in a bad part of town. Suppose you had to choose either the "luxury" of owning a car OR being able to afford a two-bedroom apartment when you only make enough for a studio apartment. Would you be more concerned with living long enough to see your kids grow up or following laws voted on by people like Ted Kennedy, (who has armed bodyguards 24/7 and a bullet-proof limo). You know if you are caught carrying a concealed weapon you could lose everything for basically just trying to not be raped or killed on your way home every night. The irony here is that the reason you NEED some sort of protection is that the same people who scream out for gun control refuse to "control" criminals in the first place.

VERY well said...

[Mike @ pit b]

I'm not bashing guns. I'm pissed that this is the only thing this guy is complaining about. The second amendment is only one of many.


Btw How many people here have had a home invasion? Or been held up at gun point?

Because I was a victim.

New Years day, 1991. MY parents, myself and brother were home when two guys just walked in the house guns DRAWN. Robbed us, threatened us. Scared the living bejeezuz out of us!!!!

Long story short. No one was shot, and they asked if we had any guns. My dad lied and said no.

So I'm not a hypothetical situation. I am a statistic.

And yes I know. "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them."



Now a hypothetical question. What if you just had to get licensed with the NRA?

Would that change your opinion?

[DaveGores]

Illegal wiretaps ring a bell.

Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal.

[woundedyak]

In my neck of the woods,it's just known that everyone owns and carries a firearm. Kind of like how most people in CA have a surfboard or sk8 in there truck. to make a long story short,there is virtually no crime in my neighborhood. Don't get me wrong, It's not the perfect place,We do have they occasional toilet papering or Ding dong ditch but,you don't half to lock your doors or take the keys out of the boat!

[scott-dsms]

Btw How many people here have had a home invasion? Or been held up at gun point?


I have been robbed at gun point - Long Beach Cal about 15 yrs ago. All I had on me was $10 - They(2) took it, gave me my wallet back and said I could go. At least they were polite about it. Yes it scared the bejeebers outta me - It was night and I never saw it coming - They got the proverbial drop on me. I was fortunate it didn't end up differently. Ever since, I'm always on my guard. Some of the faith I have in people died that night. I couldn't imagine having people storm the house though.

[Mike @ pit b]

Just because you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal.

No you're right, but it is illegal when it destroys my right to privacy!:eek::eek::eek:

Amendment XIV
(The proposed amendment was sent to the states June 16, 1866, by the Thirty-ninth Congress. It was ratified July 9, 1868.)

Section 1
[Citizenship defined; privileges of citizens.]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.



Amendment I
(Privacy of Beliefs)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment III
(Privacy of the Home)
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
(Pivacy of the Person and Possessions)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IX
(More General Protection for Privacy?)
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


And Yes I know the second amendment!!!:rolleyes:

But I love the first more.:D:D:D

Mike

[Mike @ pit b]

I have been robbed at gun point - Long Beach Cal about 15 yrs ago. All I had on me was $10 - They(2) took it, gave me my wallet back and said I could go. At least they were polite about it. Yes it scared the bejeebers outta me - It was night and I never saw it coming - They got the proverbial drop on me. I was fortunate it didn't end up differently. Ever since, I'm always on my guard. Some of the faith I have in people died that night. I couldn't imagine having people storm the house though.

I guess we are both very lucky:D:D

And ever since that day the front door has always been locked when we're home. With 2 locks. And we're only blocks from the beach.

Mike

[therail]

I'm shopping for a nice Colt 1911, then it's CCL time for me!

[DaveGores]

No you're right, but it is illegal when it destroys my right to privacy!:eek::eek::eek:

And according to the courts.....it doesn't. Don't phone Osama and no one will be listening. Once again, just because you don't like something, doesn't make it illegal.

In reference to the topic at hand, I can't move out of L.A. County fast enough. Hopefully, in the near future I'll be living in San Bernardino County where I'm likely to be granted a CCW. I also renewed my NRA membership today for another 2 years. If the rest of you aren't members, I would strongly urge you to spend the measly $35 a year to help fund the cause.

[Mike @ pit b]

So you have a problem with gun control (I understand) but not with invasion of privacy, which if I'm right from earlier quotes, is the problem with the gun control??:confused::confused::confused:

Mike

[therail]

I don't really mind the privacy thing so much as I have nothing to hide. The gun control (WTF does that even mean?) bothers me more because it's totally unfounded, IMO. Someone mentioned the D.C. scenario, and that's all I see happening should the .gov decide to completely disarm the people. The fact is that the criminals have always, and will always have the tools they need to cause mayhem. So instead of standing idly by, or cowering in the basement of one's house, I think it makes more sense to give the normal Joe a fighting chance. This isn't to say I'm advocating shootouts in the street, but rather let someone have the tools they need should the situation arise. It's not an uncommon thought in some law enforcement communities that civilians shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm at all. Despite the appalling nature of disregarding the highest law of the land, the Constitution, it leaves ample room for an overwhelming abuse of power via force.



Now a hypothetical question. What if you just had to get licensed with the NRA?

Would that change your opinion?
Not a bit. I'm not sure if I have ever posted my views on that here but I'm all for it. I wouldn't mind at all going to register my guns to my name much like a car, if I could buy the guns I wanted; but that is another topic on it's own.

Wilson, I hope I answered your question in my PM; if not let me know and I'll get you hooked up with some literature.

[Mike @ pit b]

Yeah I got it. Thanx again. And you can call me Mike.

[Young&Fast]

Lets face it. Our forefathers were smart. They gave us the 2nd for a reason. To protect ourselves! If some POS thinks that they can come into my house or shoot at my family, they have another thing coming, and by "another thing" I mean a nice hot chuck or lead.

Also another point brought up, recreation. I enjoy target shooting, I don't see anything wrong with that. I have friends that hunt, whats wrong with that. It is a basic right, not only for self defense but for sport.

Finally, all of the guns in my house combined have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.

[therail]

Finally, all of the guns in my house combined have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.
I don't care how many times I see that, it's still funny.

[hyoctane303]

. I also renewed my NRA membership today for another 2 years. If the rest of you aren't members, I would strongly urge you to spend the measly $35 a year to help fund the cause.

i think there are a few better orgs that are better than the nra. ( will find and post links)

http://www.gunowners.org/

http://www.jpfo.org/


i will find more in the morning

[ASHCRAFT]

I'm shopping for a nice Colt 1911, then it's CCL time for me!

I like my kimber 1911!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/offroadgirl666/adamkimber2Medium.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c120/offroadgirl666/AdamkimberMedium.jpg

[therail]

I do like the Kimbers for sure, that's the backup plan if I can't find a Colt I want.

[Laurie]

ashcraft,
Didn't your mommy teach you, your not supposed to point guns at people?

[hyoctane303]

I do like the Kimbers for sure, that's the backup plan if I can't find a Colt I want.

kimbers quality control hes slipped alot lately, even there custom shop stuff.

but i loves my new sig 1911!!!!

[ASHCRAFT]

ashcraft,
Didn't your mommy teach you, your not supposed to point guns at people?

Yeah I knew this was coming. The pistol was unloaded, no mag, finger off the trigger. the cameraman was about 35 yards away zoomed in. Im aiming off to the side of him. The best part is that it was his idea. Probally not the smartest..... It looks worse than it is. lol

[ASHCRAFT]

kimbers quality control hes slipped alot lately, even there custom shop stuff.

but i loves my new sig 1911!!!!

My only issue has been the Kimber Mags. Bought a couple of Wilsons.

[scottm]

You guys that were held up were lucky. But you also probably would have frozen if you were facing crooks with knives. So being held up is not an example of why gun ownership by law abiding people should be restricted, imo. Also you guys getting ccw's - If you dont need to register all guns, as in az, I suggest taking the ccw with a cheap 22, rather than your best gun. That way, when the libs eventually come to get them, they wont know about your good ones.

[therail]

That way, when the libs eventually come to get them, they wont know about your good ones.

That was all hypothetical, I lost all my guns and ammo in a boating accident.

[Tom_Willis]

That was all hypothetical, I lost all my guns and ammo in a boating accident.


Yeah, I think I'm gonna do that too :) BTW, my friend here had just been to a shooting range for the first time in her life. Seems like she's getting into it.

[therail]

Girls and guns are a funny thing. Some will downright leave when you talk about it. But you actually talk one into going out for a shoot and you can't get them to put it down, haha. Good job on showing her the light!

[hyoctane303]

That was all hypothetical, I lost all my guns and ammo in a boating accident.

thats crazy same thing happened to me!!!!! damd rouge waves

[scott-dsms]

This school is in so. Cal and these guys know their stuff.

I used to film these classes - level 1 Defensive Handgun Training was the scariest class to film - I know these guys and they are a solid class act if anyone is looking to get trained in defensive handgun, shotgun, close quarters etc...

They have a 20/20 video on their home page that speaks directly to this thread - It's a bit long, but very informative.

http://www.civilianarmstraining.com/

[randy s]

i heard once that guns kill people like knives and forks made rosie o donnell fat.

[therail]

i heard once that guns kill people like knives and forks made rosie o donnell fat.I was sitting down minding my own business last night when one of my guns loaded itself and chased me around the house. ;)

[Tom_Willis]

thats crazy same thing happened to me!!!!! damd rouge waves


Really? In my case both guns just jumped up out of the boat and dove in the deepest part of the lake.

I hate when that happens :(

[Laurie]

You know what's sad about this thread is that something that is our right from the founding fathers makes otherwise good law abiding citizens who would never use guns to rob a liquor store or shot someone talk about how they would break the law to defend this right.

[DEZERTSUB]

Exsqueeze me...The anti-gunners claim that it's the gang-bangers, criminals etc...that are the target of gun restraint and IMO that's just not the case. The notion sounds good and feels right..."Yeah were only taking guns from criminals" The problem with that logic is...Criminals don't obey laws, that is why they are criminals. Gun laws - gun restraint only serves to disarm law abiding citizens.

Example, DC has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, yet they also have one of the highest murder rates as well. Go figure. A crook doesn't give a rats ayse about a law or a ban. If you outlaw guns only criminals will have them.

My .02 - Laters and have a great day!

PERRRRRRRRRREFECTLY SAID!!!