Diesel/ Bio

[husky450rider]

Just kinda putting my thoughts out here. With the high cost of fuel, especially diesel has anyone used commercially available Bio diesel? Or have any made or considered making their own. At about 4.90 to 5.25 per gallon, filling up my 2000 F-250 is getting
expensive. I just want to get some opinions.

[dr shaw6]

The last time I checked, Pearson fuels in El Cajon was selling Bio-diesel for about $1 less a gallon than #2 diesel.

[dan200]

My friend buys it a some kind of Co-op place and does a 50/50 mix with reg diesel and says he save tons of money. I say go for it. To hell with big oil, run on french fries!!!

[pjc]

Just kinda putting my thoughts out here. With the high cost of fuel, especially diesel has anyone used commercially available Bio diesel? Or have any made or considered making their own. At about 4.90 to 5.25 per gallon, filling up my 2000 F-250 is getting
expensive. I just want to get some opinions.

I am looking for the "perfect Dodge 12v Cummins pickup" right now to create a proper race support truck. I am looking at the automated WVO system by "www.frybrid.com" that makes it all very simple.

This is different than Bio-Diesel. WVO with water and particulates removed runs very well in many diesel motors. The trick is automating the complexity of the switch over from diesel to WVO and back during normal operation.

If you can get the WVO for free, you can basically drive for free as the normal diesel is only used during run up to operating temp and during shutdown to purge the lines of WVO.

BTW, the truck I am looking for would be (in order):

12v Cummins Diesel
4x4
5-speed
Under 150k miles
Stretch cab
Stock (or near stock)
White

Cash in pocket.

[ikikazz73]

Pjc, do you know of anyone in Vegas making bio diesel privatly?

[pjc]

Pjc, do you know of anyone in Vegas making bio diesel privatly?

Nope, but I plan to do a WVO co-op once I get the chase truck project rolling.

I am leery of the conversion process to refine WVO to bio-diesel as it tends to go "boom" if not handled well.

Check out:

http://www.fillup4free.com/

http://www.frybrid.com/forum/index.php

http://www.goodgrease.com/

[Prerunin554]

Just kinda putting my thoughts out here. With the high cost of fuel, especially diesel has anyone used commercially available Bio diesel? Or have any made or considered making their own. At about 4.90 to 5.25 per gallon, filling up my 2000 F-250 is getting
expensive. I just want to get some opinions.

2000 Ford f250, so you have the 7.3l powerstroke turbo diesel, correct? at this point your navistar warranty should be done (100k miles/5 years). Your engine will run well on the bio diesel, actually, I have had customers say that they love the stuff. The only issue you may come across is the inner liner of your fuel tank degrading at an excellerated speed. I was a ford diesel tech for a couple of years and that was the only issue that I had come across. Now, if someone had a 6.0l or 6.4l powerstroke, i would recommend against it unless the bio-diesel was extremely refined. The injectors in those engines have a smaller opening for the fuel to pass through the nozzle into the combustion chamber and will clog up (resulting in replacing the injectors-not covered under warranty b/c ford says no to bio fuel and red diesel). Another thing you may want to look at or into is the hypertech tuners where you can change the desired power you want. A good buddy of mine actually gained power and increased his fuel economy by using his hypertech! I'll tell you, I was astonished! Alright, back to the fuel tank issue. The only fuel tanks that I had seen deteriorate from the inside were the tanks that are mounted behind the rear axle (usually on a "cut-away" chassis that would be used for a flatbed/ambulance/tow truck). So, if you make the fuel yourself, make sure to watch the particulate count, and possibly try to get it a little better than what is recommended. Here is hypertechs website:
http://www.hypertech.com/Products/

[Prerunin554]

My friend buys it a some kind of Co-op place and does a 50/50 mix with reg diesel and says he save tons of money. I say go for it. To hell with big oil, run on french fries!!!

Its funny too! all the sudden, you are driving down the highway, in the middle of nowhere and you smell McDonalds. Only moments later you realize that the diesel in front of you is running bio.

Oh yea, forgot to add in my last post. If you talk to the managers at fast food places, or better yet, taco shops(real hole in the wall taco shops, not this wanna be taco shop like taco bell) they will give you the grease/oil for free, cause otherwise they have to pay to dispose of it

[dezertchick]

When I worked at a proving ground,
there was a couple of bio-diesel
vehicles...I was made extremely
sick by them, fueling them and
the exhaust was beyond nasty.
It got to the point where I flat
out refused to drive them. I might have been
a test driver but I wasn't going to get sick
everytime I drove.

I wasn't the only one there
who was made sick by these
cars. I don't think it was because
they were "test cars" either.

After I got sick a couple of
separate times, I did some
research on bio-diesel. What I found
was...not much rersearch on the exhaust fumes.
"That more research was needed". Was quoted
in many places on the .gov sites

I'll pay whatever it costs to
fill up my diesel with real diesel.
Bio-diesel isn't
an option, unless I want to puke
while driving... which I don't.

I think it's a way for the "greenies"
to kill off people under the disguise
of "helping the environment".

[ikikazz73]

i'd really like to know where you got this from, if i is from first had or from someone else. it looks to me as if it is from a email or a web site of some sort... if you cant stand being in a french fryer...then umm ill give you my diesel tab too i guess.


When I worked at a proving ground,
there was a couple of bio-diesel
vehicles...I was made extremely
sick by them, fueling them and
the exhaust was beyond nasty.
It got to the point where I flat
out refused to drive them. I might have been
a test driver but I wasn't going to get sick
everytime I drove.

I wasn't the only one there
who was made sick by these
cars. I don't think it was because
they were "test cars" either.

After I got sick a couple of
separate times, I did some
research on bio-diesel. What I found
was...not much rersearch on the exhaust fumes.
"That more research was needed". Was quoted
in many places on the .gov sites

I'll pay whatever it costs to
fill up my diesel with real diesel.
Bio-diesel isn't
an option, unless I want to puke
while driving... which I don't.

I think it's a way for the "greenies"
to kill off people under the disguise
of "helping the environment".

[dezertchick]

No it's my 2 cents, my opinion and my take on it.
That is why I wrote “I think” at the beginning of
my paragraph.




i'd really like to know where you got this from, if i is from first had or from someone else. it looks to me as if it is from a email or a web site of some sort... if you cant stand being in a french fryer...then umm ill give you my diesel tab too i guess.

[hammer down racing]

There is a company here in Havasu that sells bio diesel but it is only $0.25 cheaper than #2. I know that companies need to make money but to pay over $4 a gallon for something that only costs them $0.85 to make is as bad as the big oil companies in my eyes.

[dmcmah0n]

The only issue you may come across is the inner liner of your fuel tank degrading at an excellerated speed. I was a ford diesel tech for a couple of years and that was the only issue that I had come across. Now, if someone had a 6.0l or 6.4l powerstroke, i would recommend against it unless the bio-diesel was extremely refined. The injectors in those engines have a smaller opening for the fuel to pass through the nozzle into the combustion chamber and will clog up (resulting in replacing the injectors-not covered under warranty b/c ford says no to bio fuel and red diesel).

The issues with the fuel tank comes from the solvent effect of the biodiesel cleaning the #2 diesel residue off of the tank walls. You change your fuel filter after the first 1000 miles and then after the next 1500. After that, you go back to standard fuel filter service intervals.

A good resource:
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000456.php

[dan200]

I am looking for the "perfect Dodge 12v Cummins pickup" right now to create a proper race support truck. I am looking at the automated WVO system by "www.frybrid.com" that makes it all very simple.

This is different than Bio-Diesel. WVO with water and particulates removed runs very well in many diesel motors. The trick is automating the complexity of the switch over from diesel to WVO and back during normal operation.

If you can get the WVO for free, you can basically drive for free as the normal diesel is only used during run up to operating temp and during shutdown to purge the lines of WVO.

BTW, the truck I am looking for would be (in order):

12v Cummins Diesel
4x4
5-speed
Under 150k miles
Stretch cab
Stock (or near stock)
White

Cash in pocket.

Pat Please do a build thread of this for us,

[Prerunin554]

The issues with the fuel tank comes from the solvent effect of the biodiesel cleaning the #2 diesel residue off of the tank walls. You change your fuel filter after the first 1000 miles and then after the next 1500. After that, you go back to standard fuel filter service intervals.

A good resource:
http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000456.php

Thats right, but... by the time the residue gets to the fuel filter, its already killed the fuel pump. So, they can put an in-line fuel filter between the tank and the pump to save the expensive fuel pump.

[FABRICATOR]

We looked into using bio where I work. Finding an ample and reliable supply in the greater LA area was the first roadblock. Make sure your source is reliable.

[dadunc205x]

No it's my 2 cents, my opinion and my take on it.
That is why I wrote “I think” at the beginning of
my paragraph.

The closest i have ever come to puking from smelling something was when i was driving behind an old mercedes wagon running bio-diesel(at least it had stickers saying it was running it). It was so bad that i had to pull off to the side of the road and open my door to get fresh air. I don't know what the hell made it so bad, but i seriously felt ill. Im sure it must be cleaner, but my god it just seemed so toxic. i have never felt like that since.

[ikikazz73]

how long ago was this? the 80's?

[Chris Tobin]

I am looking for the "perfect Dodge 12v Cummins pickup" right now to create a proper race support truck. I am looking at the automated WVO system by "www.frybrid.com" that makes it all very simple.

This is different than Bio-Diesel. WVO with water and particulates removed runs very well in many diesel motors. The trick is automating the complexity of the switch over from diesel to WVO and back during normal operation.

If you can get the WVO for free, you can basically drive for free as the normal diesel is only used during run up to operating temp and during shutdown to purge the lines of WVO.

BTW, the truck I am looking for would be (in order):

12v Cummins Diesel
4x4
5-speed
Under 150k miles
Stretch cab
Stock (or near stock)
White

Cash in pocket.


Pat,

Build it and shoot plenty of High Res build photos throughout the process and I'll feature it in DIESEL BUILDER magazine with the main feature and build story if it is truly magazine worthy when completed.:D

[Chris Tobin]

We are looking into running an article on installing a WVO conversion kit and dynoing the results while on #2 and on WVO to see what the losses/gains and possitives/drawbacks might be. If we do it it will show up in one of the end of the year or early 09 issues of DIESEL BUILDER magazine.

[Chris Tobin]

When I worked at a proving ground,
there was a couple of bio-diesel
vehicles...I was made extremely
sick by them, fueling them and
the exhaust was beyond nasty.
It got to the point where I flat
out refused to drive them. I might have been
a test driver but I wasn't going to get sick
everytime I drove.

I wasn't the only one there
who was made sick by these
cars. I don't think it was because
they were "test cars" either.

After I got sick a couple of
separate times, I did some
research on bio-diesel. What I found
was...not much rersearch on the exhaust fumes.
"That more research was needed". Was quoted
in many places on the .gov sites

I'll pay whatever it costs to
fill up my diesel with real diesel.
Bio-diesel isn't
an option, unless I want to puke
while driving... which I don't.

I think it's a way for the "greenies"
to kill off people under the disguise
of "helping the environment".


i'd really like to know where you got this from, if i is from first had or from someone else. it looks to me as if it is from a email or a web site of some sort... if you cant stand being in a french fryer...then umm ill give you my diesel tab too i guess.


No it's my 2 cents, my opinion and my take on it.
That is why I wrote “I think” at the beginning of
my paragraph.


The closest i have ever come to puking from smelling something was when i was driving behind an old mercedes wagon running bio-diesel(at least it had stickers saying it was running it). It was so bad that i had to pull off to the side of the road and open my door to get fresh air. I don't know what the hell made it so bad, but i seriously felt ill. Im sure it must be cleaner, but my god it just seemed so toxic. i have never felt like that since.

Wow, these are the only 2 stories I have heard about foul smelling bio-diesel... I wonder what the situation was that caused it. I think there is a shelf life since it is an organic product (something like 6 months I believe) so maybe it was spoiled???:confused:

I do know that the guys at Domin8er Power Boats refine their own Bio Diesel and use it in their diesel rigs to tow their boats back and forth from their AZ and CA facilities. Last I talked to them it was working great and they were paying around 70-cents a gallon for the chemicals and processing!!!:D

They purchased one of the processing machines that has multiple drums and does everything automatically...

[pjc]

Pat,

Build it and shoot plenty of High Res build photos throughout the process and I'll feature it in DIESEL BUILDER magazine with the main feature and build story if it is truly magazine worthy when completed.:D

Will Do Chris.

This is likely a year off as we are working through the steps to build a new home first.

It will likely be in stages and well documented and photo'd. Got that drill down when we had ORC.

Where can I get your magazine?

[Chris Tobin]

Will Do Chris.

This is likely a year off as we are working through the steps to build a new home first.

It will likely be in stages and well documented and photo'd. Got that drill down when we had ORC.

Where can I get your magazine?

In your mailbox with a subscription is the cheapest and easiest way... :D To buy it locally, try any of the bookstores like Barnes & Noble. Also many grocery stores carry it on their newstand, in SoCal most Ralphs stores carry many of our mags. Recently Autozone added our magazines (selected titles in some stores and all titles in others) to their selection so there are quite a few places to try...

[husky450rider]

Thanks for all the great responses. I have read and understand the cleaning affect of Bio on the first few tank fulls. So time ago I pulled the tank and modded it to lower the fuel pick up and raise the internal vent. In doing that I installed a Racor filter along my frame rail (pre- pump). I may look for a good local source in the LA area and give it a try. It may be about what I'm paying now but it will be a test run to see if my 7.3 has problems. My goal, if running a few test tanks works out will be to home brew a few batches. I am leaning toward WVO of fresh veggie oil. I kinda think hauling waste from a restaurant would be a pain. So thanks again.

[TreyP]

Something everyone should remember about making your own fuel is you have to pay taxes on it just like the gas stations do. As the popularity grows the Government will start going after those that don't pay. It happened in Germany, as they found that they were loosing too much revenue from the bio fuel people.

[dan200]

It seems that the WVO (waste vegetable oil-thanks Pat) here in my area is all locked up. Many of the restaurants are already under contract and their used oil is already spoken for. Considering the obesity problem in the states is huge it was hard to believe. I guess we all need to eat more chicken wings and french fries.

[johnowhite]

You might want to check into a rendering plant.....I found truckloads to be delivered for about $1 per gallon out of LA to Oxnard. Since then canned the idea.....EBay has a bunch of Bio diesel plants, Northern Equipment does too. The bottom line is, you pay a bunch of money to get a semi automatic system and material storage (at least a truckload of pre-processed veg oil, chemicals for processing (readily available) and storage of processed biodiesel..You then need to transport the stuff or use it. Just when you get rolling, they'll figure out a way to tax it to pay for the roads we use when we burn the fuel.....

We used to have to wait in lines to get gas in the early 70's

If fuel were $3.xx when oil was $50 a barrel, why is it only $5 when oil is at $130 a barrel?

[pjc]

Something everyone should remember about making your own fuel is you have to pay taxes on it just like the gas stations do.


Not in the free state of Nevada!



As the popularity grows the Government will start going after those that don't pay. It happened in Germany, as they found that they were loosing too much revenue from the bio fuel people.

California is already screwing with WVO scavengers. You have to have a $2million bond to pick the stuff up. So much for being "the most progressive state" and leading the "green revolution".

[CaptinCrash]

what about green crude