why are europeans such good desert racers?

[randy s]

those guys don't spend nearly as much time fooling around in the desert as we do, but seem to have it figured out pretty well. why is that? even the small teams who are'nt sponsored by mitsu, vw or bmw run around like nobodys business in that soft stuff. maybe they have enough sense to show up with four wheel drive.

[co pilot mclovin]

that is cause they dont mess around in the desert. they take it very serious. there is money to be made in it over there.

[RCJoslin]

lol maybe they cheat... haha jk

[klaus]

I went to the 2008 CER and had a chance to compare vehicles and teams. In my opinion most vehicles are build in a way where they could not compete in a US series. There are top teams that have insane vehicles, teams, logistics and drivers. Those are the few we may see on TV here in the US, but the rest of the field is very low budget. The races are longer in miles and time you spend driving, however the terrain is easier. They may have more routes that require 4wd, but overall its smoother. No Barstow type terrains.

Now what is easier? What takes more skill? No clue. Its like apples and oranges, hard to compare. Go visit the European websites and check it out. http://www.marathonrally.com/ are our friends in Germany.

[Random Thoughts Racing]

Maybe they are not just good desert racers but good drivers in general. With racing being a popular sport, perhaps there is more opportunity for skilled young tallent to be developed into professional drivers in Europe? It may be like asking why are canadians so good at hockey, and the US so good at basketball? Opportunity and popularity combined with natural tallent.

[randy s]

I went to the 2008 CER and had a chance to compare vehicles and teams. In my opinion most vehicles are build in a way where they could not compete in a US series. There are top teams that have insane vehicles, teams, logistics and drivers. Those are the few we may see on TV here in the US, but the rest of the field is very low budget. The races are longer in miles and time you spend driving, however the terrain is easier. They may have more routes that require 4wd, but overall its smoother. No Barstow type terrains.

Now what is easier? What takes more skill? No clue. Its like apples and oranges, hard to compare. Go visit the European websites and check it out. http://www.marathonrally.com/ are our friends in Germany.i went over to lisboa for the rally in 2006 and checked out the cars and i was amazed at how badly some of the cars that ended up finishing were constructed. not the mitsus or vws but the field in general. they would'nt make it past ojos.

[crazyeye]

It seems to me it's because of their experience in rally racing. When you go from racing on a logging road without ever seeing the course to a race where you can actually see the course first it not that hard. except for the rough stuff of course.

[nimrod]

The only reason they seem fast is because they haven't run into me yet. :eek: :rolleyes: :p

[Dezertpilot]

When you come from Rally experience its easy to be a good driver over here. Look at how well Armin Schwartz and co. are doing!

[randy s]

The only reason they seem fast is because they haven't run into me yet. :eek: :rolleyes: :p
into you or over you mike?

[scary fast hummer]

It seems to me it's because of their experience in rally racing. When you go from racing on a logging road without ever seeing the course to a race where you can actually see the course first it not that hard. except for the rough stuff of course.


You hit right on the head. It was a really hard switch for me going to a system where your driving at speed, have no idea where your going and the navigator is calling out distances and turns. For those of us do it as amatures, it also means we are a quite a bit more cautious. I cant afford to wreck my truck or worse, kill somebody because I'm driving faster than I can see.

Oh, and these guys dont know squat about sand! They have pizza cutter tires on land rovers, etc, don't believe that you can air down below 10 psi, and spend a lot of time pushing. A few weeks training at Glamis would cure most of their problems.

4wd makes huge difference. Most of our routes require some 4x4 ability. Europeans don't get the concept of offroading in 2wd (I dont either, to be honest!) but your right, the terrain is never as extreme as Barstow, etc.

[nimrod]

Uhhh, probably over....That Schlesser guy is amazing.......

[derco]

Hi to all.

Well, this is some interesting issue to me.

I follow the european races ( in particular the portuguese, one of the most competitive championships in europe) for almost 20 years.

There are lot's of diferent things in the races bettew the 2 sides of the lake.
In here we have narrow roads, with lot's of curves, lot's of trees, rocks but most important , no sand. The cars here must be short, 4x4, light and the most powerfull regulations allow. Also there are very restricted regulations that impose limits in almost everything and doens't allow one "arms race". The most notorious victim of such regulations where the ZX Rally Raid.

I leave here 1 example of the roads here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vtjhlhg2ek

In one thing you guys from that side of the altantic hare so mutch better then here. The show on the road is huge over there, and here most of the drivers go like on top of rails. No sideways wich is bad.

Regards.
(my english is very rusty by these days so excuse my 1000 errors)

[crazyeye]

Sweet vid I definately would have ended up wrapping my car around a tree. lol

[PMAZ7]

those guys don't spend nearly as much time fooling around in the desert as we do, but seem to have it figured out pretty well. why is that? even the small teams who are'nt sponsored by mitsu, vw or bmw run around like nobodys business in that soft stuff. maybe they have enough sense to show up with four wheel drive.

I think that if you get back to the original question it's kinda easy to answer (in my opinion). You're talking about some of the best of the best from Europe having the opportunity to fly across the world and compete in the desert, much like Robby G being able to attain and retain the money to take his show on the road and hit Europe. It's not that EVERY European driver has it figured out, but that you're seeing some of the best come over and do what they do best. In Europe there has historically been a more serious approach to not only racing, but driving in general. Their license test for the street involves a bit more than just parallel parking and how far away from a stop sign to stop, and I'm guessing that the same guy that "taught" them to drive didn't also teach their dad, and happen to be the football coach (that's my story)!

[derco]

Hi to all

Again i'm returning with a video from Portugal.

This is the same car and driver of the last video, (Filipe Campos driving one Toyota Land Cruiser). This man is the new Champion of offroad here in Portugal, and this year he drives one X-Raid BMW X3 CC (costumer version).

Still even with the video being recorded in the Toyota is amazing the speed in some very narrow sections in the trees more to the final of the video. So if one driver can do this in narrow roads imagine in open spaces...

YouTube - A bordo com Filipe Campos

I just take this post also to invite you guys to remember the 2007 Dakar. Have a look at my site ( www.offroadphoto.com) , because we have uploaded one new colection of almost 1200 photos of that race from stage 1, 2, 14 and also from the verifications pre race, and the last podium in the pink lake (there is image of RG jumping from that)

Regards