Class 8 Chevy questions

[DirtyChick707]

so my uncle is building his first class 8 truck and we want it to be a chevy. We were wondering what year chassis we should start with and what the pros and cons are between the years. We want to use a standard cab short bed with a LS7 and we're thinkin of a truck in the late 90's.
I have a 2006 score rule book and am waiting for a new one so i dont know how much the rules changed from then.
Any help would be great!

Britt:)

[CADTech]

I would run the older frame rails. 73-87. The newer frame rails have the coil buckets and and cross memeber molded into the frame rails. The older ones are straight foward and dont have all the b.s. on them. If you need any plates cut out or some deisgn help let me know. I have it all in solidworks.

[DirtyChick707]

Sweet! Thanks we'll be in touch. I believe he just got that solidworks program as well.
Any ideas on who makes a good looking glass kit? If the rules allow it (i believe they do) we want a full glass truck, no steel cab.
Thanks!
Britt

[Gearhead2185]

I don't think you can run an LS7 in Class 8 being it is an aluminum engine. Pretty sure you have to run an iron block. Either way good luck with the build. Hate to throw it off topic, but I lived in Vallejo for 5 years for school, just down the freeway from Fairfield. I'll soon be living in Union City. I'll have to make it to Prairie City some time.

[Mark Newhan]

You can run an LS engine if you run a 2008 frame. I just went through all of this with ours. PM me your e-mail and I will give you the down low.

[truck poor]

I used to hang out at nelson & nelson racing when they used to build the class 8 chevy thunder truck(awhile ago) If memory serves me I think the only thing you have to have is a metal roof on the cab, the rest can be glass. like I say it was awhile ago so I would double check.

[scottm]

I am nearly finished with a 3+ year build. It is in the rules that you have to use a production iron block, at least until the year an all aluminum engine is available stock. Mine is a 77 chevy, which is perfect for several reasons: Catalytics start in 1/2 ton trucks in 78, so 77 and older will be easier to make street legal (ultimate prerunner). Plus the score rules say you cant remove any material except at the front for improved approach angle. That is usually interpreted to mean cutting out the stock crossmember and coil buckets of the 88 up 2wd frames is not allowed, so again older = better. For glass, Trailer Products makes an update glass set called the Patelli kit. It matches up to the 73-87 cab and uses 88 and up grilles so the whole truck looks newer, and is only about $1200. Lastly mid 70's chevys are available on craigslist all day long for $500 or less, at least in Phoenix.

Here is a pic of mine I took yesterday. It has a 6 inch flair Patelli update kit. I have the bedsides, but they are not mounted yet. The hood is rounded across the front, and when the 88+ grill is on it will look pretty good imo... For door panels, I cut the outer skins off stock doors and dzused em in place. Lighter than fiberglass, fit perfect, and free!

[DirtyChick707]

Thanks for the info so far.
Now what are motor restrictions related to the year of chassis (besides what has already been said). More specifically, we can get a LS7 for 12k or so and we're thinking if we go with the older chassis, we won’t be able to build a motor with comparable hp and reliability as the stock LS7 for the same amount of money. Having said that, now we're trying to balance hp/reliability vs. chassis build. What motor would be best with an older chassis providing the LS7 can only be used in a 08 and up, is the case?
Thoughts???

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Thanks for the info so far.
Now what are motor restrictions related to the year of chassis (besides what has already been said). More specifically, we can get a LS7 for 12k or so and we're thinking if we go with the older chassis, we won’t be able to build a motor with comparable hp and reliability as the stock LS7 for the same amount of money. Having said that, now we're trying to balance hp/reliability vs. chassis build. What motor would be best with an older chassis providing the LS7 can only be used in a 08 and up, is the case?
Thoughts???
Did an LS7 ever come in a Stock Chevy? You don't have to answer, I already know. You will also have to look at the fuel injection issue. The rules are specific about using stock fuel injection and LS7 fuel injection was never stock in a truck.

[scottm]

You can easily build a 500+ hp oldschool or ls1-2 engine for $12k. But you won't be around racing long to realize that huge horespower is not a key factor in winning a race. Finishing with the fewest problems is the key requirement to winning, and overkill horsepower is counterproductive if anything, at least for new or low budget teams.

[Scooterinvegas]

we won’t be able to build a motor with comparable hp and reliability as the stock LS7 for the same amount of money. Having said that, now we're trying to balance hp/reliability vs. chassis build. What motor would be best with an older chassis providing the LS7 can only be used in a 08 and up, is the case?
Thoughts???

Ive have very good luck with long rod, stoked 400's. Good steel crank/rods, aftermarket ported heads (with steam holes matched to block) and solid cam and you will have plenty of motor to push you through the desert.

[BCG1]

You will also have to look at the fuel injection issue. The rules are specific about using stock fuel injection and .

Actually the rules are vague about stock fuel injection. "Stock factory fuel injection may be used." Couple that with the last line of the first paragraph of the Competition Regulations: "This class is an open production class and all components will be considered open unless restricted herein." Since the FI rules state that stock FI MAY be used rather than stating that FI MUST remain stock as delivered, FI is not restriced.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Actually the rules are vague about stock fuel injection. "Stock factory fuel injection may be used." Couple that with the last line of the first paragraph of the Competition Regulations: "This class is an open production class and all components will be considered open unless restricted herein." Since the FI rules state that stock FI MAY be used rather than stating that FI MUST remain stock as delivered, FI is not restriced.You just have to look deeper. Read CR23 on page 30 of the current book. Requires stock manifold and throttle body, injectors and computer are open. This is also what Savage has said.

[Old School 8]

Actually the rules are vague about stock fuel injection. "Stock factory fuel injection may be used." Couple that with the last line of the first paragraph of the Competition Regulations: "This class is an open production class and all components will be considered open unless restricted herein." Since the FI rules state that stock FI MAY be used rather than stating that FI MUST remain stock as delivered, FI is not restriced.


The guy that bought my old class 8, asked me about FI. He wanted to buy / install a factory GM (Marine) FI system, out of the GM Performance catalog. Then he called Bill Savage. Bill told him, that "Boat Fuel Injection, never came stock in a Chevy Truck". I think that it is pretty much is accepted, that only stock FI can be used in class 8. And everyone knows that stock FI, (and computer) will not work on motors above 500 HP.

You can get a good Braswell Carb. for near the same price that you will spend screwing around with FI, and computers.

[BCG1]

You just have to look deeper. Read CR23 on page 30 of the current book. Requires stock manifold and throttle body, injectors and computer are open. This is also what Savage has said.

It only requires stock manifold and throttle body for classes that require stock FI.

Not withstanding what Savage said, the class, according to the rule book, does not require stock fuel injection. It says that stock fuel injection may be used, not must be.

Of course the argument is moot. What Savage says is law regardless of what the rule book says in black and white.

[Chris_Wilson]

What Savage says is law regardless of what the rule book says in black and white.

Perhaps that should be amended to say "What you have in writing from Savage is law". Savage deals with a ton of questions daily and it's best to get significant clarifications in writing since nobodies memory is perfect and it's not really reasonable to expect Savage to remember you or your conversation with him months after the fact.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

It only requires stock manifold and throttle body for classes that require stock FI.

Not withstanding what Savage said, the class, according to the rule book, does not require stock fuel injection. It says that stock fuel injection may be used, not must be.

Of course the argument is moot. What Savage says is law regardless of what the rule book says in black and white.

I understand that it can be read different ways; but the way SCORE interprets this is that stock factory fuel Injection may be used instead of a carburetor, and that stock factory fuel injection is defined by a stock intake manifold and throttle body, but you can use any computer or injectors. In other words; any four-barrel automotive carburetor may be used OR stock factory fuel injection may be used – one or the other.

As has been stated, the best thing to do, if you choose to try a different route, is get it approved in writing from SCORE Tech.

[BCG1]

Perhaps that should be amended to say "What you have in writing from Savage is law". Savage deals with a ton of questions daily and it's best to get significant clarifications in writing since nobodies memory is perfect and it's not really reasonable to expect Savage to remember you or your conversation with him months after the fact.

You are absolutely correct and this just reinforces my original statement: The rules as written are vague. If they were not, Savage wouldn't have to answer a ton of question. A more specific rule would read: "Fuel injection is allowed provided it remains stock as delivered from the factory."

[DirtyChick707]

All very interesting on how one interrupts the rules however, with all that has been said I do agree with BCG1. As the rules read FI will be allowed. The way I see it as of now, (please correct me if im wrong) we CAN use the LS7 along with a 77 chassis.?.?

[jo maoma]

CR23

...Any displacement engine may be used as long as the
original block casting remains the same. Block must be
made of the same type of material as that of the block
that is installed in the vehicle by the manufacturer for
the particular chassis and body series...

[Moss2]

All very interesting on how one interrupts the rules however, with all that has been said I do agree with BCG1. As the rules read FI will be allowed. The way I see it as of now, (please correct me if im wrong) we CAN use the LS7 along with a 77 chassis.?.?

NO.. you cannot. You can certainly build it and probably even run it as long as you want if you are not competitive. Just add your money to the pot. Just build a trophy truck or unlimited class car if you cannot deal with the 'spirit' of the rules.

[BCG1]

The way I see it as of now, (please correct me if im wrong) we CAN use the LS7 along with a 77 chassis.?.?

Not legally. No al blocks in a 77 frame.

[Scooterinvegas]

All very interesting on how one interrupts the rules however, with all that has been said I do agree with BCG1. As the rules read FI will be allowed. The way I see it as of now, (please correct me if im wrong) we CAN use the LS7 along with a 77 chassis.?.?

To be SCORE legal, the block had to be avalable in the truck the year it was sold.

1977 Chevy truck = Inline 6, Small block (iron block), Big block (iron block)

[DirtyChick707]

10-4, got it!

[Mark Newhan]

I went through this last year. You can run a FACTORY aluminum block as long as it is available in the vehicle as delivered by the factory. The 2008 Chevy has an aluminum block option, however you would have to run the frame that matches the engine [2008]. Also you would have to run the throttle body that was delivered on the 2008 Silverado, which is a 75mm. The big LS7 has throttle body is a 90mm. We wanted to run an LS7 but did not want to conform to these stipulations. Anyway, the LS7 really isnt a race engine. You could do a lot better with a Dart block. By the time you prepare an LS7 for competition you will spend the same money, and wont have the same result.

DirtyChick707, I was looking for the email from Savage, cant fid it. The above is the context of the e-mail.

[Steven_Tolbert]

I am nearly finished with a 3+ year build. It is in the rules that you have to use a production iron block, at least until the year an all aluminum engine is available stock. Mine is a 77 chevy, which is perfect for several reasons: Catalytics start in 1/2 ton trucks in 78, so 77 and older will be easier to make street legal (ultimate prerunner). Plus the score rules say you cant remove any material except at the front for improved approach angle. That is usually interpreted to mean cutting out the stock crossmember and coil buckets of the 88 up 2wd frames is not allowed, so again older = better. For glass, Trailer Products makes an update glass set called the Patelli kit. It matches up to the 73-87 cab and uses 88 and up grilles so the whole truck looks newer, and is only about $1200. Lastly mid 70's chevys are available on craigslist all day long for $500 or less, at least in Phoenix.

Here is a pic of mine I took yesterday. It has a 6 inch flair Patelli update kit. I have the bedsides, but they are not mounted yet. The hood is rounded across the front, and when the 88+ grill is on it will look pretty good imo... For door panels, I cut the outer skins off stock doors and dzused em in place. Lighter than fiberglass, fit perfect, and free!
How much wheel travel are you pulling on the front, I ask because I have a F150 but I would love to build a 75 chevy because here in Cali it is smog excempt

[scottm]

Its strapped at 21" but pm me to keep this thread on track.

[Steven_Tolbert]

Its strapped at 21" but pm me to keep this thread on track.
PM sent

[DirtyChick707]

Ok so, i get the motor/chassis combo per the rules. So now whats the best combo? 08 chassis with Ls7 or Older chassis with built small block? And why?

[Steven_Tolbert]

Would go with older frame and built small block because it sounds like you can set the suspension up really well on the older frame and you can make good relibly power out of the cast iron block.

[DirtyChick707]

Not to stray off of my last question in regards to the chassis but, our concern with a carb’ed motor is throttle response. Our driving style is one that needs good response which carb’ed motors aren’t known for. Unless of course you all know a trick to eliminate the lag time in the response???

[Mark Newhan]

You wont have a problem with throttle response with a well set up racing engine with carb.

[DirtyChick707]

Are stepside frames the same as non-stepsides? Im looking at a 74'

[scottm]

The stepside is actually part of the bed, so the frames are the same.

[JEFFRPM]

Use a 1976-87 BLAZER frame unless the tech guy REALLY knows his chevys he will never know the diff. The reason for a blazer frame is the rear rails on a blazer are allready 5 inches higher than a truck frame due to the floor design. This is unless they allow you to notch the frame for the axle now days. Alot of us did this in the 80's never got cought
As a matter of fact dale white won the baja 1000 in 95 with one of these.

[Mark Newhan]

Hey Jeff,

The rules have been opened up as far as channeling frames. Check out the build on my truck in the "show and tell" section. "spy photo's of the new Mark Newhan class 8".

How is Jackson Hole?

[jo maoma]

Hey Jeff,

The rules have been opened up as far as channeling frames. Check out the build on my truck in the "show and tell" section. "spy photo's of the new Mark Newhan class 8".

How is Jackson Hole?

i'm confused, the frame dosen't look notched for axle clearence or am i just missing it...

[DirtyChick707]

Jeff, whats better, 4wd or 2wd chassis? Or does it matter much?

[JEFFRPM]

The 4wd chassis has raised frame rails for the front axel clearance. the 2wd frame is flatter for the a arms. Use the 4wd frame

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

The 4wd chassis has raised frame rails for the front axel clearance. the 2wd frame is flatter for the a arms. Use the 4wd frameThen you would have to use a Live Front Axle (Straight Axle) to be legal.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

i'm confused, the frame dosen't look notched for axle clearence or am i just missing it...
He means channeling the body down over the frame.

[JEFFRPM]

[QUOTE=Ramsey_ElWardani;671747]Then you would have to use a Live Front Axle (Straight Axle) to be legal.[/QUOTE

They "the inspecters" never caught us or alot of people for that matter using a 4wd blazer frame in class 8

[jo maoma]

He means channeling the body down over the frame.

gotcha! still learnin'...

[DirtyChick707]

So, if I understand the old rule book correctly, if I get a 74’, the body must be that of the original as delivered from the manufacture for that year? Mark, what year chassis is yours? The body you have is 05 and newer, right? This may have been changed. I haven’t got the new rule book.

[scottm]

The technicalities are a little confusing, but its also not real critical for most orgs. The fact is you dont need the stock cab at all, as you can run a full fiberglass body. My truck has much of the stock cab still, and I like it. It helps a novice fabricator to locate the roll cage properly, plus it is well sealed against dust and possible exhaust leaks.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

So, if I understand the old rule book correctly, if I get a 74’, the body must be that of the original as delivered from the manufacture for that year? Mark, what year chassis is yours? The body you have is 05 and newer, right? This may have been changed. I haven’t got the new rule book.
Why would you look at an "old rule book" get the new one. There you will see that "Body subject to SCORE approval" allows you to up grade the body style within the same manufacture and model.

[DirtyChick707]

Ramsey, thanks for the info.
FYI, the old book is all I have to reference to, this is partially why I’m here asking what might appear to be dumb questions. My book has been on order since I started this thread. I consider this site to be a good resource cause many of you have the new book and can help. This is why.

[xnoregretsx]

to hell with horsepower id rather have suspension and some good seats

[DirtyChick707]

to hell with horsepower id rather have suspension and some good seats

WEELLLLL..... When you get your balls back from your girlfriend/wife, drive a truck with all three and then comment!

[williamscaw]

Why would you look at an "old rule book" get the new one. There you will see that "Body subject to SCORE approval" allows you to up grade the body style within the same manufacture and model.

Keep listening to Ramsey he is extremely knowledgable in all classes. Funny thing about it, you would think his head would be bigger as smart as he is.