What is T1?

[djblakely]

I had another fabricator tell me about T1 steel he found. He claims that it is half the price of 4130 and has near the same properties. Does anyone know the truth of this? He has actually started building a complete car from this material. I have been a fabricator for several years and never heard of this before.

[CRAIG_HALL]

T-1 is a construction alloy, think heavy equipment. T-1 has a min. yield strength of 100 ksi & a tensile of 110-130. 4130 has a min of 52 ksi & tensile of 90.

think of it as 3 times stronger than mild steel and twice the cost but cheaper than 4130 but not 1/2.

[reddman666]

This is about all I have on it, it's a pretty good way to compare it to more well known alloys. I bought a 4' x 8' sheet of 3/16" T1 about 6 months ago for $460 delivered, I don't know what you are paying for 4130 but that sure seems a lot cheaper.

It has a lower carbon content than 4130, about the same as most mild steels. It's very weldable, very tough, and very abrasion resistant.

Personally I think T1 is the ****, and I'm going to continue to build my buggy with it. :) The pics are the belly section of my rock crawler (all T1), I'm sure I'll get **** around here for that but who cares.

[djblakely]

Welcome to the RDC fab shop Red.
BTW - guys, Red is the other fabricator that told me about T1. That is what started this topic.

I still want to find out more about this stuff. Has anyone else out there used it? What did you think of it?

[Triaged]

You know that it is pre-hardened right (note how close yield and ultimate strength are)? If you were to bump 4130 up to T1 hardness (~26Rc which is almost nothing for 4130) it would be about the same strength and still be more ductile. If you were to bump the 4130 up in strength till the ductility was the same as T1 the 4130 would be much stronger. If you are going to use it you should read up on welding pre-hardened steels.

[151fab]

Something else to consider; you won't pass tech with it...

That might not bother you but it might hurt your resale value when you tell whoever your selling your rig to that it can never be raced.

[Triaged]

They don't even make it in tube do they? I thought we were just talking about plate for tabs, etc. Doesn't SCORE just care about the roll structure material?

[reddman666]

You know that it is pre-hardened right (note how close yield and ultimate strength are)? If you were to bump 4130 up to T1 hardness (~26Rc which is almost nothing for 4130) it would be about the same strength and still be more ductile. If you were to bump the 4130 up in strength till the ductility was the same as T1 the 4130 would be much stronger. If you are going to use it you should read up on welding pre-hardened steels.
Thanks for the good info Triaged. I have read up on everything I can get my hands on. I did a mild pre-heat before all the welding, and in the destructive testing I did before I built this subframe and the other parts of my chassis, the welded T1 (using ER70S GMAW) stood up in a way I'm more than satisfied with.

Something else to consider; you won't pass tech with it...

That might not bother you but it might hurt your resale value when you tell whoever your selling your rig to that it can never be raced.
Pass tech, for my personal rock buggy/occasional rock racer? Tech for rock crawling is uber-easy to pass, and there is nothing in WeRock, UROC, or any other sanctioning bodies rules that specifies what material is used for plate work/tabs. This thing is built to be a damn fast rock crawler, not a desert car.

They don't even make it in tube do they? I thought we were just talking about plate for tabs, etc. Doesn't SCORE just care about the roll structure material?
You are correct from everything I have seen it is only a plate material, no tube at all.

[reddman666]

I probably should have been more clear in my earlier post. Of course, I don't think T1 is the ultimate material, but as far as bang for the buck, I think it's ideal for my vehicle and situation (I am building on a fabrcator's budget, not an unlimited budget).

I have nothing against 4130, I just think that for some applications, especially where material cost is an issue, T1 is a great alternative. My socket head bolt pockets and several other parts of my chassis are 4130. I will update this thread once my buggy is done and report how the material, welds, and structure have held up.

[HardCharger81]

Most construction equipment, I.E. Back Hoes, Forklifts, etc, is made from T1. If it's good enough for John Deere then....?

I've never seen it in tube form, but I have welded alot of it. You should pre-heat it alittle, but I don't think it has to be done everytime. I'm sure there's a rule somewhere about exactly how to weld it. I've welded/fab'd with it and welded it with plain ol' straight wire, dual shield, 7018, 10018, even 6011 for a few quick repairs. I've been told its prone to cracking, if not welded properly, and I have seen it crack here and there.
But again, for what your using it for, I would think it'd be an ideal material.

[rojodiablo]

It sounds as though it would be nice and stiff for plate sections that you don't want a lot of flex in. It reminds me of bed frame material from the description.

[151fab]

So your trying to save money on a build by buying a cheaper material for tabs and plate? Usually your costs regarding fabrication using plate is in the labor not the material. How many square feet of plate would you have to use to save a significant amount of money anyways?

[reddman666]

So your trying to save money on a build by buying a cheaper material for tabs and plate? Usually your costs regarding fabrication using plate is in the labor not the material. How many square feet of plate would you have to use to save a significant amount of money anyways?

Well as I have said a few times in this thread, I am building a section of my vehicle from T1, for myself, so fab time is free, regardless of material. I am using a full 4x8' sheet of .188", and I saved about $500 by doing so (over 4130), which makes the build just that much less expensive for me. No it's not a lot, but it does help keep the cost of my build down. Like I said before, this is a personal recreational rig, not an all out race tagged car. :)

[CRAIG_HALL]

I'm sure part of it is your location but I'd sell a sheet of 4x8 of .190 4130-N for just under 650 $$. (I dont buy that size sheet but if I could)

[151fab]

I'm sure part of it is your location but I'd sell a sheet of 4x8 of .190 4130-N for just under 650 $$. (I dont buy that size sheet but if I could)

I was thinking the same thing. Prices must be steep in UT. Good luck with the build.

[reddman666]

I'm sure part of it is your location but I'd sell a sheet of 4x8 of .190 4130-N for just under 650 $$. (I dont buy that size sheet but if I could)


I was thinking the same thing. Prices must be steep in UT. Good luck with the build.

Damn we are getting screwed! I am trying to make a stock order today to replenish all my 4130 plate and these are the prices I was quoted from EMJ this morning:

24x48" sheet of 3/16" 4130 = $294 each
36x72" sheet of 1/8" 4130 = $341 each

That would work out to around $1200 for a 4x8' of .188" :eek:

Where are you guys getting your plate from? I need to do some shopping around!

[Wild bill]

Just for reference.... .125"x36"x144" 4130n delivered was $553. The last sheet of 4130 I bought was 4x10ft. and it was $990. delivered.

[CRAIG_HALL]

It's not so much where but the quantity. Here's what I'd SELL for .125 (3'x12') 570 $ -- .190 (3'x12') 700$