Vw bus box ?

[SEANY]

I am new to the VW world so I have what could be a dumb question. I was told that a bus box can't handle alot of jumping and whoop section abuse with a long travel type car. Also if I run a ecotec motor will the bus box handle the horsepower???

[TauMau]

There are basically 2 types of bus boxes...002 and 091.

The 091 is the stronger of the two. If it's built (costs around $4000 for top of the line box, but with you motor and smart driving you can get away with less) then you'll be fine with just an Ecotec. If you're in a long travel car going through the whoops, that's actually better then if you were in say a 1600...with 1600s they skip across everything, making them much harder on the trans then a long travel buggy. If you didn't already know, 091s are used in 1/2 1600, 5/1600 and often class 12 (PAB swears by them). 002s are much cheaper, so sometimes you'll find them in budget projects. A built 002 may stand up to an Ecotech if you take it easy. I've seen a built 002 mated to an Acura V6 and last, it just depends on how it's driven.

Jumping you won't have a problem as long as you let off or press the clutch in while in the air. Whenever your rear wheels are off the ground, you NEVER want to hold the throttle down. You'll start spinning the tires so much that when you finally come down on them, you can chip a tooth, snap an axle, etc. Best bet would be to either let off the throttle, hold the clutch in or even better, do both.

[SEANY]

091. seems to be the way I need to go, I will be working with about 250 hp and don't mind spending the money to be sure it's going to be reliable. This car is just going to be for fun, no race, maybe a little pre-run time.

Whats the max on travel for axles that work with the 091.??

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

How wide do you want to make your car? For travel, I'm thinking twenty is plenty if you damp it well.

[TauMau]

Yeah you'll want to run 930 CVs/axles. I'm looking at around 20" travel with 930s and 5x5 rear arms (5" longer, 5" wider).

250 hp? Is it built?

[SEANY]

How wide do you want to make your car? For travel,
I'm thinking twenty is plenty if you damp it well.

Have'nt got that far yet, I just know it's going to be an a-arm car. I was thinking around twenty so it's good to hear it from someone else. I have only ever built trucks so this whole buggy deal is new. Thanks for your input and I will look forward to any help you have on this.


Yeah you'll want to run 930 CVs/axles. I'm looking at around 20" travel with 930s and 5x5 rear arms (5" longer, 5" wider).
250 hp? Is it built?

I am building the car with a bone stock ecotech to start, when I'm all done with the car I want it to be built to withstand up too 250hp if I do anything else to the motor if that makes sense. I am also building my own trailing arms, so your saying from stock 5" wider and longer then stock measurements. Also thank your for your input.

[KitRacer]

I have a built 091/stock ECOTEC in my light weight 4 seater. The stock R&P made it 1000 miles of VERY hard driving at Ocotillo before it cracked. That was about half a season. I just put a new Weddle R&P in and I am waiting to see how long it lasts. I am usually pretty good at making 091's last in 1600 cars, but this combination has not worked great for me. If I could do it over again, I would have put a 2D in. . . .

[TauMau]

Have'nt got that far yet, I just know it's going to be an a-arm car. I was thinking around twenty so it's good to hear it from someone else.


I am also building my own trailing arms, so your saying from stock 5" wider and longer then stock measurements. Also thank your for your input.

We have the same basic idea of what we want from our projects. Initially I was planning on running an Ecotech, but when I found a super cheap Shortstar V6 I couldn't pass it up. I'll be running a built 091. My a-arms which are nearing completion should be running 20" of travel. For wheelbase I'm looking at 110"...would look funny stretching the front end more.

And yes, whenever you see arms mentioned as 3x3, 5x5 etc, that is extra inches compared to stock. The longest/widest arms on a baja I've come across are 6x6.

[SEANY]

I have a built 091/stock ECOTEC in my light weight 4 seater. The stock R&P made it 1000 miles of VERY hard driving at Ocotillo before it cracked. That was about half a season. I just put a new Weddle R&P in and I am waiting to see how long it lasts. I am usually pretty good at making 091's last in 1600 cars, but this combination has not worked great for me. If I could do it over again, I would have put a 2D in. . . .

What's the cost difference from a well built 091 to a 2d? I am in no rush on this car, This will be my first built car for myself so I have no time limit. If I have to wait a couple extra pay periods to get a better tranny I will yea know.

[TauMau]

http://www.mooreparts.com/store/category/6/334/Transmissions/

You may want to call around to some shops like Dave Folts Transmissions or Wright Gearbox to see how much they run with them.

[RWilliams]

I'll probably be in the minority on this,
Ive be running a 2276 with an 002 bus tranny, 930 CV's, 33" paddles on a 4 seat sand car. Ive run the car real hard for 4 seasons, keeping up with v8 cars and had no problems. While in that time 3 of my buddies have had numerous problems with built 091's. To me its all about how you drive, not how hard you drive but how you drive. When you jump let off, when the rear is in the air let off, dont dump the clutch everytime you stop and it will last alot longer. A 2D would definetely be stronger but if you drive crazy you can break it just the same.

[SEANY]

I'll probably be in the minority on this,
Ive be running a 2276 with an 002 bus tranny, 930 CV's, 33" paddles on a 4 seat sand car. Ive run the car real hard for 4 seasons, keeping up with v8 cars and had no problems. While in that time 3 of my buddies have had numerous problems with built 091's. To me its all about how you drive, not how hard you drive but how you drive. When you jump let off, when the rear is in the air let off, dont dump the clutch everytime you stop and it will last alot longer. A 2D would definetely be stronger but if you drive crazy you can break it just the same.

From what I have found a good 091 will cost me $4500 said and done. The 2d will cost about $7500 said and done, If I put the 091 in and everything goes perfect I will be stoked. But if it takes a poop on me depending on how bad I will have to fix it at a cost of at least $1500-$2000.

7500
- 4500
-------
3000

The extra $1000 will be all the headache of loading the car up after the tranny breaks, removing the tranny and so on...

Now I hit a fork in the road. Do I build the ecotech powered bug or a VW powered bug putting the extra cash from the motor twords the better tranny???

Or stay away from the buggy dork thing and build a truck instead???

[Ol' Curmudgeon]

"Or stay away from the buggy dork thing and build a truck instead???"

NO!NO! A thousand times, NO!:eek:

Seriously, it is how you drive it, IMHO, all things being equal. I know people that have made Type 1 boxes live for literally years.

[SEANY]

"Or stay away from the buggy dork thing and build a truck instead???"

NO!NO! A thousand times, NO!:eek:

Seriously, it is how you drive it, IMHO, all things being equal. I know people that have made Type 1 boxes live for literally years.

I know trucks are money pits even after there "done", I am going to stop by wright's today on my way home from work and get some more info.

I was on kartek's website and didn't see any 5x5 trailing arms, I would actually like to buy the trailing arms already done. I was looking on the classifieds but no luck yet.

The price on there uprights isn't to bad either so I might just buy them and build the arms my self.

[TauMau]

Hey Seany I'd agree with everyone in saying stay the course. A buggy gives so much more value for your money.

Many people swear by the arms you can find here:
www.blindchickenracing.com/

Chromolly 5x5s will be $550 shipped to your door. To me, building them wouldn't even be worth it at that price, and I've heard from quite a few people the quality/welds are top notch.

With your trans I'll echo everyone else in saying that it's how you drive. If you're willing to refrain from dumping the clutch and coming down while on the throttle, you wouldn't have a problem running a properly built 091...or even 002 if you drive semi-conservatively. If you want to be able to do that kind of thing, shoot for the 2D. It'd add resale, too.

[D-rek]

I would stay away from a bus box do an econobox or a 2d and you won't regret it.

[SEANY]

These are the trailing arms I'm going with, 930 & 934 Chromoly Trailing Arms:
http://www.kartek.com/Product/Suspension/RearArms.html
I can get this setup with the mounting tube fully tig welded for $1300.

These are the front and rear hub and brake setups, front hubs and rear micro stub:
http://www.kartek.com/Product/Brakes/ProAmHubs.html

These are the spindles, ProAm A-Arm Spindles:
http://www.kartek.com/Product/Suspension/BuggySpindles.html

From what I have heard I can wait a little bit before I have to have the trans and motor, so I can get alot done with the suspension before I need to have a motor and trans mounted. Right?

[TauMau]

You're exactly right Sean. You can finish up the suspension and then move onto drivetrain once that's taken care...in fact it's the preferred method so that you can figure out whether or not you'll be moving the trans from the stock location. Plus who knows what kind of deals will pop up in the classifieds between now and then. Maybe a 2D will come along at a really good price.

You're definitely using top notch stuff. I'm excited to watch the build!

I'm not sure if you're planning on welding up a chromolly rear torsion housing, but if so, you may consider stretching the wheelbase some more by moving the housing back a few inches. I'm considering doing this so that I can get my wheelbase to about 117-124".

[dodger]

Anybody try these transmissions??
http://www.quicksandperformance.com/transmissions.html

[SEANY]

You're exactly right Sean. You can finish up the suspension and then move onto drivetrain once that's taken care...in fact it's the preferred method so that you can figure out whether or not you'll be moving the trans from the stock location. Plus who knows what kind of deals will pop up in the classifieds between now and then. Maybe a 2D will come along at a really good price.

You're definitely using top notch stuff. I'm excited to watch the build!

I'm not sure if you're planning on welding up a chromolly rear torsion housing, but if so, you may consider stretching the wheelbase some more by moving the housing back a few inches. I'm considering doing this so that I can get my wheelbase to about 117-124".

I am going to get rid of the rear torsion housing, the setup from kartek comes with a 2" chromoly tube with the mounts for the trailing arms welded on. I am going to ditch the vw pan and build my own floor, I figure it would be ez to make stuff fit with the pan out of the way. Also I can mount my seats lower with the pan gone. I am 6'5" so I need all the space I can get.:D


Anybody try these transmissions??
http://www.quicksandperformance.com/transmissions.html

That trans seems pretty sweet, I would rather buy a used mendi then the quicksand but if I can't find a used 2d I might check quicksand out a little more. Thanks for the link.

[goofballracer]

Ill tell you guys how a chevy v-6 blows up a built sedan tranny on monday ill get you guys better pictures of my bug with deminsions it will awnser some questions

[TauMau]

Testing Goofball!!! Long awaited :D

My uncle has a Megasand 4E in his 4 seater. He has not had a problem yet, but an upgrade to the 2d is in the plans. The 4E uses Weddle Type 2 gears (the same found in a built 091) but with a larger, 9" R&P. If you'd like, I can inquiry about how much he'd sell it for. For his 3500 lb car making 300 hp to the wheels with 35" tires, it's a weaklink, but for your application I'd say you would have no problems with it.

[SEANY]

Testing Goofball!!! Long awaited :D

My uncle has a Megasand 4E in his 4 seater. He has not had a problem yet, but an upgrade to the 2d is in the plans. The 4E uses Weddle Type 2 gears (the same found in a built 091) but with a larger, 9" R&P. If you'd like, I can inquiry about how much he'd sell it for. For his 3500 lb car making 300 hp to the wheels with 35" tires, it's a weaklink, but for your application I'd say you would have no problems with it.

Sweet, yea look in to it for me. I would be interested foresure if the price is right.:D