thinking about building a 7s truck

[deluxfab]

im thinking about building a 7s beamed ranger for 2010. seems like a pretty kool class to race in and wont cost me nearly as much to build/prep as the 1450 truck i just built. does anybody have any good input/tips as far as building one? is the front suspention just bent beams with heimed/plated radius arms? does anybody know what kind of payback there is for bitd? how competitive is the class? thanks alot

[dislocated1]

If you are concerned about prep cost in 1450... then 7s is definitely not the class to move to IMO

[deluxfab]

im not really concerned with the cost, i just want to race in a class that is competitive with rules. 1450 is kool but im also going to be racing against truck with huge v8's and there is no pay back at all. i just cant justify spending another 10k to be a top truck every race with no payback. i want to race the drivers not there wallets

[DSRacing]

In my experience, the prep costs for 7S truck are comparable to a 1450.

Here are the BITD rules for 7100 / 7S.

Any manufacturer spindles may be used and may be reinforced.
Front and rear suspensions must be of the same manufacturer, shape, size and configuration as originally produced and installed on the chassis to which it is attached. All suspension components except shock absorbers and rear leaf springs will remain in the original stock locations with original stock mounting methods maintained. All components with the exception of the shock absorbers must be original manufacturer’s design.
A-arms, I-beams and front axles must remain stock as delivered on the chassis to which it is attached. Components may be strengthened by adding material but must remain stock dimensions, material and configuration as delivered from the manufacturer. Mounting points may be strengthened. Ball joints may be of any manufacturer. Front springs must retain original stock concept (leaf, coil, torsion, etc.) and remain in stock location. Rates and capacities of springs are open. Maximum front wheel travel is 12 inches. Ford specific: For model years 1998 thru 2002 the upper right two-piece A-arm is being replaced with a one-piece A-arm bearing part number of 2L5Z-3084-BA.

Class 7100
Maximum rear spring length is equal to the longest manufacturer’s stock production rear spring as delivered on a mini or mid-sized pickup. Rear springs must be mounted in the original stock mounting method (under frame, side of frame). Frame may not be modified. Springs may be mounted above or below the axle. Spring rates and capacities are open. Two single point rear differential anti-wrap bars may be used. Rear wheel travel limit is open.
Stock front and rear track width must be retained plus or minus 2 inches as measured from brake backing plate to brake backing plate.
Stock sway bars may be removed.
All suspension components must be retained except those permitted to be removed.

FORD SPECIFIC:
I-beams may not be modified. Cutting, bending, or altering geometry of the beam in any way is prohibited. The use of spherical bearings in I-beams is permitted so long as no modifications are made to the part. You may only press the spherical bearings into the stock end of the beam. You may not cut or change the I-beam in any other way.
Radius arms may be modified to allow the use of a heim joint for the pivot. This modification may only be done to a stock part. You may not fully fabricate the radius arm, and you may not change the part in geometry in any way. The radius arm may be modified only in the minimum amount to allow for the use of the heim joint. The location of the pivot point may not be changed, and no allowance for error in mounting. The placement must be exactly the same as the stock pivot point. The pivot point of the radius arm will be considered the center of the mount where the rubber bushing passes through the stock cross member. This modification will be subject to the approval by Best In The Desert Racing Association on a per vehicle basis.

[deluxfab]

so if you cant bend the beam how do you get any lift? camber adjusters will only allow so much. can you use a 4wd beamed ranger? ds racing do you have any pics of ure truck?

[dislocated1]

In regards to beams.... some have had custom eccentrics made (5-6* +), some 'wedge' their beams and a few just bend 'em .....

[OldGreen]

If I were going to race that class, I'd buy Dixon's truck.

[deluxfab]

In regards to beams.... some have had custom eccentrics made (5-6* +), some 'wedge' their beams and a few just bend 'em .....

so the rules arent enforced 100%?


If I were going to race that class, I'd buy Dixon's truck.

althought it would be nice to buy a truck already built especially with the record it has im more than capable of building it myself.

[Alex Paterson]

7200 :)

-Alex

[DSRacing]

so if you cant bend the beam how do you get any lift? camber adjusters will only allow so much. can you use a 4wd beamed ranger? ds racing do you have any pics of ure truck?

Here are some pics.

[MtTamer]

Seriously, 7S isn't cheaper to run in but to your point of competing with V8's, you do have a more level playing field. Even if you can do your own fab work, right now, you can pick up a good truck with the bugs worked out for just the cost of materials to build your own. Let some more teams build their Class 6 trucks and you might even get into a 7 Open for the cost of a 7S today.

[randy s]

if you run 33's, your front end, drag link and spindels in particular, will stand a better chance of not breaking or twisting up. 35's,not so much. what engine would you chose to use?

[drsnutz]

Here are some pics.
take it from me, the ds knows what he's talking about. in the mdr series the 7s class is very competitive and the trucks are all very fast. between the ds's truck, jc andrews truck and the fantelli truck we race each other very hard. jc has put a lumpin on us all year long and we all race with a very limited budget but the class is a lot of fun for me personally and my friends who run the 1450's seem to spend a lot more money on a race to race basis than we do. granted they're bigger and faster but they also spend a lot more money and given the course sometimes we can run with the big boys. jmo.

[Dezertpilot]

jc has put a lumpin on us all year long

Nice to see them Andrews out racing again and not racing in the slow stuff:)

[DSRacing]

if you run 33's, your front end, drag link and spindels in particular, will stand a better chance of not breaking or twisting up. 35's,not so much. what engine would you chose to use?

For a Ford, the only choice is the 4.0L SOHC.


Nice to see them Andrews out racing again and not racing in the slow stuff:)

JC has been racing out at Plaster City since the beginning of 07. Both our teams have only a few people and we have pitted together for the past year. JC and his team are a class act and fun to be around. At the Dash race last year, his team got our truck unstuck from those nasty slitbeds on three different occasions. I don't know of too many competitors from the same class that would do that.

[BCG1]

If I were going to race that class, I'd buy Dixon's truck.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner with that answer!

[Byrdman]

im thinking about building a 7s beamed ranger for 2010. seems like a pretty kool class to race in and wont cost me nearly as much to build/prep as the 1450 truck i just built. does anybody have any good input/tips as far as building one? is the front suspention just bent beams with heimed/plated radius arms? does anybody know what kind of payback there is for bitd? how competitive is the class? thanks alot

7S is a great class. I've been messing around with this class for over 8 years and love it. They are not the fastest thing in the desert, but very competitive and racey. I've lost a race in Barstow by 43 seconds a few years ago, if that gives you any idea of if they are competitive. I've tried to talk myself into leaving the class, but cannot do it.

The main draw-back to 7S racing is you can't go buy a kit an make it work- like a 1450 class truck. You've got to work around a stock platform and really pay attention to the rules. The best thing going for it is being able to use the big V-6 (stock) motor and run pump gas. It really saves big $$ as compared to a built 4 banger and the savings on race gas alone keep the cost down.

My suggestion to you if decide to build one instead of buying one, is go to a local race, like a MORE or MDR P.C. race and take allot of pictures. See what you like, ask the drivers and crews what works and what lives. Down load the BITD rule book, AND buy a current SCORE rule book.(they are different for 7100 and 7SX)

Go For It!!! It's great to here people getting interested in 7S again!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[deluxfab]

is there a payback difference if you run beams vs a-arms? are there any 4wd beam trucks? so if the rules say no bent or cut beams, but of the trucks are done that way is the rule just not enforced ?

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Here are some pics.
http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48112&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1226120772 You are saying that these beams (in your second picture) fit the BITD rule below and the SCORE rules? They don't look stock shape to me.


FORD SPECIFIC:
I-beams may not be modified. Cutting, bending, or altering geometry of the beam in any way is prohibited. The use of spherical bearings in I-beams is permitted so long as no modifications are made to the part. You may only press the spherical bearings into the stock end of the beam. You may not cut or change the I-beam in any other way.
Radius arms may be modified to allow the use of a heim joint for the pivot. This modification may only be done to a stock part. You may not fully fabricate the radius arm, and you may not change the part in geometry in any way. The radius arm may be modified only in the minimum amount to allow for the use of the heim joint. The location of the pivot point may not be changed, and no allowance for error in mounting. The placement must be exactly the same as the stock pivot point. The pivot point of the radius arm will be considered the center of the mount where the rubber bushing passes through the stock cross member. This modification will be subject to the approval by Best In The Desert Racing Association on a per vehicle basis.

[BajaFand]

is there a payback difference if you run beams vs a-arms? are there any 4wd beam trucks? so if the rules say no bent or cut beams, but of the trucks are done that way is the rule just not enforced ?

Ford gives big paychecks in BITD as they are a title sponsor of the series. There are payback levels for the year of the truck you run. The newer the truck you run, the more money they give you for a podium finish.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=48112&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1226120772 You are saying that these beams (in your second picture) fit the BITD rule below and the SCORE rules? They don't look stock shape to me.

No comment?

[DSRacing]

No comment?

I wasn't really interested in hi-jacking deluxfab's thread but it's obvious that photo has given you heartburn since the moment I posted it. So go take a Zantac and read my response you so desperately need.

Yes, those beams are bent. Mine and nearly every other I-beam Ranger racing in 7S / 7SX / 7100. When I bought my truck from it's previous owner, he raced the truck for at least three years in BITD and at least one year in SCORE. The truck came with two sets of beams which I still use today. I have talked to BITD and Bill Savage at SCORE about the bent beam rule for our class.

The anwser has always been the same, "Useless someone in the class complains, we really don't care." So instead of going out and buying some other beams and getting them plated up and prepped to race on, I use the ones which came with the truck. I have talked to a lot of the other 7S drivers and they generally say this. As long as the front suspension doesn't have more than 12" of travel they are okay with whatever people are running. That includes those trucks which are currently running coil-over shocks. (Also against the rules)

Unless you see a 7S truck with 10+ degrees of positive camber at ride height, then the beams have been bent. Take a look around when you are at contingency for the
B1K you are going to see trucks running negative camber at RH. Hmmm.. how is that possible?

Am I making any excuses, not at all. It is what it is. There are trucks that have raced in BITD recently in clear violation of the engine and aftermarket fuel injection rules and they are allowed to race.

Lastly here are some BITD rules for you to read regarding the questions you posted in your rules thread.

Any manufacturer spindles may be used and may be reinforced

Steering components (tie rods, tie rod ends, idler arms, pitman arms, relay rods and turning arms) may be specially made providing they mount in stock location and operate in the original manner.

I'm done with this hi-jack, have a good night Ramsey. Remember, Don't throw stones in glass houses.:D

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

My point was just confirmed by you. Rules don't matter, really! And I wouldn't call this a hi-jack; the poster was/is thinking about building a 7X and he should know what he is up against. His question specifically asked about bent beams. Several have suggested that he buy an existing truck and again I think he should know what he is looking at. I don't have heartburn about anything. I just thought it interesting that you posted the rules and then pictures of what looked to be a truck in violation of those rules - and now you have confirmed it. Now deluxfab has much better information on which to base his decisions about building a 7X.

[Random Thoughts Racing]

jc has put a lumpin on us all year long and we all race with a very limited budget ...


Nice to see them Andrews out racing again and not racing in the slow stuff:)


...JC has been racing out at Plaster City since the beginning of 07. Both our teams have only a few people and we have pitted together for the past year. JC and his team are a class act and fun to be around...

x2 for the Andrews team being top notch competors on a budget. A good suspension is the kicker in this class (pun intended). This was the differance for JC from the 07 to 08 seasons. Ill see if I can edit up the before and after videos of the Andrews truck and post it. There is an open invitation from Bilstein to help with suspension tuning.

[deluxfab]

definatly not a high jack that is info i would like to have. i just want to make sure i dont spend months of work and thousands of dollars to build a truck then not have it pass tech or if i built the truck according to the rules and get burned by all the trucks who arent following the rules. so there are trucks with after market fuel injection also? coilovers? not trying to stir the pot or anything but how come the rules arent followed or changed to accomadate rules that it seems like nobody follows? my cousin and i are both getting things ready to build 7s trucks to race later this season. i guess we should ask all the drivers which rules its ok not to follow so that we both have competetive trucks?

[Byrdman]

deluxfab, p.m sent...........

[Highdezert7s]

I will have to agree with Joel from Bilstien Shocks. Since they have been setting our shocks up ( which are Bilstein) Our truck has been very competitive. 7s in MORE and BITD has an average of at least 8 trucks per race. It is very competitive and the drivers you race against are first class. So go ahead and finish your truck, I don't care if you bend your beams just so long as you don't go over 12 inches of travel in the front.

Steve Rose 729 MORE and 7129 BITD

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

I don't care if you bend your beams just so long as you don't go over 12 inches of travel in the front.

Steve Rose 729 MORE and 7129 BITD
Why would you advise someone to build an illegal truck? You may not care, but as soon as he enters a REAL race and wins, someone will care and he'll get DQed. You may not care about the rules, really, but someone else will.

It is that attitude that has had 7S and 7SX so screwed up for years as well as many of the other Production Truck classes.

[CamelRace]

Since we are worried about rules. Then tell me how any ford Ranger I-beam truck can run 35's without bending beams. There is no way to make a 6 degree of plus eccentrics. So how do these trucks run 35's and the tires sit straight up? The reason 7s and 7sx dont combine is beacause of the motor rule.

[Lance T]

7200 :)

-Alex

2008 Baja 1000

CLASS 6 (Unlimited production mini trucks) –1. Marc Burnett, Chula Vista, Calif., Ford Ranger, 27:02:31 (23.35 mph)
(3 Starters, 1 Finisher)

CLASS 7 (Open mini trucks)—1. Guillermo Galvan/Ricardo Galvan, Bahia de Los Angeles, Mexico, Ford Ranger, 21:16:25 (29.68 mph); 2. Cesar Belloso/Oscar Belloso/Walter Padilla, Tijuana, Mexico, Ford Ranger, 23:10:02; 3. Jose Canchola Jr./Jose Canchola Sr., Mexicali, Mexico, Ford Ranger, 25:23:56; 4. Jose Gonzalez, Mexicali, Mexico/Roberto Gonzalez, Tijuana, Mexico/Curry Durazo, Calexico, Calif., Ford Ranger, 26:39:41; 5. Dan Chamlee/Tom Chamlee, Carpenteria, Calif., Ford Ranger, 28:38:24
(7 Starters, 5 Finishers)

CLASS 7SX (Stock mini trucks)—1. John Holmes, Olivenhain, Calif./Mark Landersman, Temecula, Calif., Ford Ranger, 20:15:11 (31.17 mph); 2. Heidi Steele/Rene Brugger/Cameron Steele, San Clemente, Calif., Ford Ranger, 20:27:38; 3. Noe Sierra, San Bernardino, Calif./Tony Sierra/Johnathan Sierra, Fontana, Calif., Ford Ranger, 21:45:36; 4. Rich Severson, Tucson, Ariz./Bruce Finchum, Mesa, Ariz./Pat Neveau, Phoenix, Ford Ranger, 22:30:30; 5. Rudy Suarez/Ricardo Garcia, Ensenada, Mexico, Ford Ranger, 25:32:24; 6. Norman Turley/Trevor Turley, Long Beach, Calif., Ford Ranger, 26:38:00; 7. Pepe Rodriguez, Perris, Calif./Jesse Rodriguez, Orange, Calif./A.J. Rodriguez, Perris, Calif., Ford Ranger, 28:16:25
(11 Starters, 7 Finishers)

So let's go across the overall mini trucks...
1. 7sx
2. 7sx
3. 7
4. 7sx
5. 7sx
6. 7
7. 7
8. 7sx
9. 7sx
10. 7
11. 6 or 7200
12. 7sx
13. 7

Alex = Fail ;) :p

[djblakely]

I don't want to leave topic here, but deluxfab did mention a-arm Ranger option also.

With that I pend a question about building the a-arms. I know BITD states no tube arms. So can we stay stock dimentions and build them from plate? The way I understand the rules you can only add metal to the factory part. But, with the mentaliy here "that as long as we don't have more than 12" of travel we are good to go", is it ok to built total new 4130 plate arms. This is ok at SNORE.

I want to hear what the general consinces is here. If I can get everyone on the same page I can take this thread to the tech director and get the rules standardized. We as a group can get the rules to fit what the majority wants. Personally I feel if you mandate travel and track width you've created a level platform. Leave the details open.

[Lance T]

If I were going to race that class, I'd buy Dixon's truck.

Awesome truck...

http://www.race-dezert.com/trader/photo/or-race-carp3858n1.jpg


I don't want to leave topic here, but deluxfab did mention a-arm Ranger option also.

With that I pend a question about building the a-arms. I know BITD states no tube arms. So can we stay stock dimentions and build them from plate? The way I understand the rules you can only add metal to the factory part. But, with the mentaliy here "that as long as we don't have more than 12" of travel we are good to go", is it ok to built total new 4130 plate arms. This is ok at SNORE.

I want to hear what the general consinces is here. If I can get everyone on the same page I can take this thread to the tech director and get the rules standardized. We as a group can get the rules to fit what the majority wants. Personally I feel if you mandate travel and track width you've created a level platform. Leave the details open.

I agree on the travel and track width mandate. But read this below:


Here is my $.02...
When we first got into Off-Road Racing we decided to build a class 7S. My buddy Jason and I went and watched the Baja 1000, I was hooked. It took about 2 years to gather the parts needed to build a "SCORE legal, by the book truck". We went and did a couple of BORE races and then decided to go to Laughlin to see where we stood. Well we soon found out that we were slow as , started looking at what the other racers were doing. We race a Toyota, looked at what some of the other guys were doing, and everyone was "bending the rules" and it was told to us hey you can make some changes here and there but as long as you don't go over 12" of front travel it shouldn't be a problem. So back to the drawing board. We had ATS build us some "7S Legal arms" assured us there would be no problems. Took a couple of years or so to test dial in shocks ect and then we went to Laughlin. Well we won Laughlin on the 1st day, but then we were DQ'ed for illegal upper arms. We talked to Savage and said how come this guy has bent beams and won no DQ, or what about that guy having modified arms ect. he won the SCORE championship last season, no DQ and all Savage said was that it's kind of like a speeding ticket, sometimes you get caught. Go change your upper arms, I don't want to see a tube under there. Did we get protested we asked, he said nope. We had raced several SCORE races before this and even got lucky enough to podium 3rd I think and never had any problems with this set-up. So once again we changed the front suspension on our truck and have less than 12" of travel. Hope this answers some of your Questions.

Paul

I would talk to guys who have built with arms in BITD and SCORE before you build. Talk to the Fire Guys, Aaron Dixon, LBR, Tyler Henn, Horner, etc. Of course, talk to the tech director for each series too.

My truck and it's sister truck had less than 12" of travel. They both ran the same stock arms that had been plated. Both were originally 4x4.

[deluxfab]

I don't want to leave topic here, but deluxfab did mention a-arm Ranger option also.

With that I pend a question about building the a-arms. I know BITD states no tube arms. So can we stay stock dimentions and build them from plate? The way I understand the rules you can only add metal to the factory part. But, with the mentaliy here "that as long as we don't have more than 12" of travel we are good to go", is it ok to built total new 4130 plate arms. This is ok at SNORE.

I want to hear what the general consinces is here. If I can get everyone on the same page I can take this thread to the tech director and get the rules standardized. We as a group can get the rules to fit what the majority wants. Personally I feel if you mandate travel and track width you've created a level platform. Leave the details open.

i think if it got to the point of getting the rule changed for tube or plate a-arms then your going to have the beams guys wanting tube radius arms instead of using the stock ones. then you have to create several new rules limited what can be used for radius arms....

[Goober]

Is 7s the same as 7sx since Score doesn't have a 7s class?

[TRAVISD]

This truck won many 7s championships with the "stock" beams, yes it was 4x4 yes it ran 35" tires. Follow the rules.

[Lance T]

Is 7s the same as 7sx since Score doesn't have a 7s class?

7s is dead. 7s only allowed for engines up to a 3.0L

7sx(SCORE/MDR) allows for engines 4.0L and under and 7100/725 (Drive, MORE) allow anything 4.3L and under.

[Goober]

Oh okay but the same suspension?

[Lance T]

Yes, transmissions are more open in 7sx than 7s too. It's a good class. Chicks dig it!

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Yes, transmissions are more open in 7sx than 7s too. It's a good class. Chicks dig it!
Transmission rules are the same.

[Goober]

Would the closest thing to a 1450 be 7 open or 6?

[DSRacing]

7s is dead. 7s only allowed for engines up to a 3.0L

7sx(SCORE/MDR) allows for engines 4.0L and under and 7100/725 (Drive, MORE) allow anything 4.3L and under.

MDR doesn't have any engine restrictions for it's 725 (7s) class. It's a free for all.

[DSRacing]

Would the closest thing to a 1450 be 7 open or 6?

There are no rules for the 1450 class except functional steel doors. You could take either a Class 6 or a 7, put a V-8 in it and still be legal for 1450.

[drsnutz]

There are no rules for the 1450 class except functional steel doors. You could take either a Class 6 or a 7, put a V-8 in it and still be legal for 1450.
exactly right ds, we're building 2 of them right now and hope to have one of them ready for the new years race, a 7 truck with a 392 stroker motor, whew eeeeee!

[FOURTH STREET]

This thread confirms what Ramsey has pointed out many times. There is an attitude among the 7sx and 7100 racers that rules dont matter. WELL THEY DO! My advice to Deluxfab is to get a rule book (or download BITD rules) and read the rules and most importantly follow them. The rules exist to make the racing competitive.
All the talk of camber problems with non bent I-beams are B.S. We have no issues with camber and run stock beams with off the shelf 2 degree adjusters. I have replaced beams with junk yard replacements 3 times in 4 years. Never had to bend them.
Unfortunately the only enforcement of the rules is if someone complains. Most people are afraid of being labeled a whiner. Our truck is 100% within the rules and our track record speaks for itself.

[Lance T]

This thread confirms what Ramsey has pointed out many times. There is an attitude among the 7sx and 7100 racers that rules dont matter. WELL THEY DO! My advice to Deluxfab is to get a rule book (or download BITD rules) and read the rules and most importantly follow them. The rules exist to make the racing competitive.
All the talk of camber problems with non bent I-beams are B.S. We have no issues with camber and run stock beams with off the shelf 2 degree adjusters. I have replaced beams with junk yard replacements 3 times in 4 years. Never had to bend them.
Unfortunately the only enforcement of the rules is if someone complains. Most people are afraid of being labeled a whiner. Our truck is 100% within the rules and our track record speaks for itself.

Bravo!

[daank]

Hey i need some help.
i have a 91 ranger that i wanna make into a 7 truck.
how would i mount the shock and coil/ or what would i need to do it.
i got beams just dont know what kind of suspension to run.
i wanna run like a coilover but i want it to be legal. so if someone could point me in the right direction, i would really appreciate it!

[mitbroracing]

Hey i need some help.
i have a 91 ranger that i wanna make into a 7 truck.
how would i mount the shock and coil/ or what would i need to do it.
i got beams just dont know what kind of suspension to run.
i wanna run like a coilover but i want it to be legal. so if someone could point me in the right direction, i would really appreciate it!

http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/Project+Prerocker/Project-PreRocker-Ranger-Construction-101/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/199132?contextCategoryId=13357

[MORE #911]

Why are the 7100 trucks so much faster than Jeepspeeds? Same general suspension travel and limitations yes?

[DSRacing]

I wouldn't say 7s is that much faster than the Jeepspeed trucks. Generally they do have comparable suspension and hosepower numbers, though I think the typical Jeepspeed trucks do weigh more than a 7s Ranger or Toyota.

I think it has more to do with the driver and the prep than anything else. Having personal experience with being in the same race with the Jeepspeeds, I have passed a few of them and have been passed by Jeepspeeds like I was standing still. It's like any other class, if they are set up well they are fast.