metal in oil filter

[Wild bill]

What is a tolerable amount of metal fragments in an oil filter? I just cut the filter open and found some shiny metal. The total amount would be a pile about 1/4" square and 1/6" tall. No copper colored fragments only bright shiny metal. Any thoughts on impending problem or not?

[Ziggy]

What is a tolerable amount of metal fragments in an oil filter? I just cut the filter open and found some shiny metal. The total amount would be a pile about 1/4" square and 1/6" tall. No copper colored fragments only bright shiny metal. Any thoughts on impending problem or not?



What did you use to cut the filter open?
Any metal is no good for the motor.Last time I had metal in the filter the outside bolts on a 4 bolt main came loose.Never did find out why but we managed to save the block,heads but not the crank.FYI

[Wild bill]

I used tin snipes. The metal particles are very small glissing pieces, not large fragments.

[Ziggy]

Did u use a magnet to sift?
I had a spoonful and knew I was in major trouble.When was the engine built?
Sometimes the bolts will stretch and tiny particles will break off.Could be any number of things.

[Wild bill]

I didn't use a magnet to sift. The particles are visable in the media. The engine has 300 miles on it.

[JEFFRPM]

Does it have cast rings or moly? is it a roller motor or flat tappet, gear drive or chain.
How clean was the buildup? If its a flat tappet motor what oil was used?

[Wild bill]

The BBF has moly rings and a roller cam. The motor was built at a race engine builder's shop and dyno'ed. I replaced the oil filter after the dyno. The current filter that was removed was a HP1 and has 200 test miles and 100 race miles. The motor was ran hot for about 15 miles @250 f. The oil pressure never was below 50 pounds. The oil used was 20/50 full synthetic LUCAS. It is a chain drive cam.

[John F2000]

The BBF has moly rings and a roller cam. The motor was built at a race engine builder's shop and dyno'ed. I replaced the oil filter after the dyno. The current filter that was removed was a HP1 and has 200 test miles and 100 race miles. The motor was ran hot for about 15 miles @250 f. The oil pressure never was below 50 pounds. The oil used was 20/50 full synthetic LUCAS. It is a chain drive cam.


To view the filter correctly you need to spread the pleats apart. Only look at the metal deep down in the bottom of the pleat, the metal shavings from cutting it open will be on the top portion of the filter.

Re the oil temp, that is not high.

In the end you shouldnt have a 1/4 square pile of metal from the bottom of the pleats.

I would drain the oil in a perfectly clean pan. Look and see what you get. If nothing major, then put new oil in, change the filter, run it for a few miles and check the filter and drain the oil again. If it was from the engine build, you should see significantly less metal or almost none. If you get another pile of metal then you probably have a problem.

[Wild bill]

I am pulling the pan on the motor tonight. Hopefully, it will be clean. On closer inspection, the bulk of the metal are very small fragments imbedded in the media. The oil temp never got above 240f.

[JEFFRPM]

What did you find out?

[Wild bill]

The pan was clean. The overheating problem was due to a roll pin failure on the distributor gear. The timing retarded and caused the overheating. In turn, the bronze gear was worn enough to account for the metal in the filter, at least I hope.

[RGFan]

Any other symptoms????? In my 468 BBC, I would start losing oil pressure above 5200 rpm, along with an elevated oil temp. Pulled the bottom end, and the crank/bearing clearances were to tight for a motor turning 6500 rpm (.0018 -.0020, should have been .0025-.0030).The bearing overlay was completely gone, but the bearing was still intact (not for long). My concerns saved my bottom end though. If I would have ran it, I was a couple of hours from a catastrophic failure.

[Wild bill]

The oil pressure never went below 50 lbs. Oil temp was stable at 240f from start of race til quit. The exhaust temp must of been sky high because the temp melted the delrin motor mounts and the throttle cable. Compression was 190 to 200 lbs. on each cylinder. My plan from here is to put everything back together, test the truck for 50 miles or so and then pull the oil filter. If more metal is found... then motor goes to the machine shop for rebuild.

[Big Oly TT]

The pan was clean. The overheating problem was due to a roll pin failure on the distributor gear. The timing retarded and caused the overheating. In turn, the bronze gear was worn enough to account for the metal in the filter, at least I hope.

The bronze gear concerns me. I had a 420 SBF, and finally got smart and went to a external wet sump system (its like a 1 stage dry sump pump set up), as the regular oil pump (stock wet sump set up) wears those broze gears like crazy=loss of power (timing issues), possible backfiring through the carb (timing issues), and metal going through the whole engine. Either way you look at it, its not good. Get the oil tested for what metals, which will tell you exactly where it is coming from and go through the motor and invest in a dry sump set up or atleast a external wetsump pump set up from Stock Car Products or Peterson Fluid Systems. Good luck.

[JEFFRPM]

You might have to much oil pressure causing the gear wear. i agree on the dry sump/external oil pump.

[Wild bill]

I talked to my motor person and he doesn't remember changing the gear at the last rebuild. If that was the case then the wear could be from the new camshaft on an old gear. Everyone has told me that the gear needs changed often. At least once a season. The new mallory gear has a lot larger roll pin. I'll drill out the distributor shaft and problem fixed.

[RGFan]

I talked to my motor person and he doesn't remember changing the gear at the last rebuild. If that was the case then the wear could be from the new camshaft on an old gear. Everyone has told me that the gear needs changed often. At least once a season. The new mallory gear has a lot larger roll pin. I'll drill out the distributor shaft and problem fixed.

That is a good point, it has always been said that whenever you make a cam change to change the distributor gear. I hope that is it for your sake.;) In the future, you can use a local oil vendor to do your oil samples for you, I am not sure of the price though, very helpful at times. Good luck

[John F2000]

I had the same problem on my 460. However when we installed the hydraulic roller cam, it required a switch to a different dist gear, I forget the material, but replacing the msd gear with a diff material. In doing so, if the hole and pin are not right on, any slack will cause the pin to sheer. With a new gear, installed correctly, we have had no additional problems.

Anyways, I would guess that the metal you found was from the initial build. If you didnt find anything in the oil when you drained it and or in the bottom of the pan, your probably good to go.

[Ziggy]

On the 351w there is a small plug directly across from the distributor gear in the block itself.I have always been concerned about the gear and have used bronze ones for years and have drilled a tiny pin hole in this plug and it shoots a tiny stream of oil directly onto the gear and we have never had a failure.