Class 10 type 1 vs pump gas motor?

[DeanB]

Type 1 2000cc 12 to 1 compression vs 2110cc 9 to 1 compression. With everything else being equal or properly set-up, how would they compare in hp and torq?

[DeanB]

Come on, someone must have an idea.

[Gonzo 5/1600]

Well I don't have any numbers for you but I would imagine the 2000cc with the 12 to 1 compression would be a much more powerful motor across the board. More importantly, what apllication are you intending? The higher comppression ratio motor will require race gas and will be higher maintenance...

[partybarge_pilot]

You lose about 3-4% of your power per compression point. Go 2180, 92's are still pretty reliable.

All things being equal, if your 2L had 200HP the 2110 would have about 185. The longer stroke your make for more torque on the bottom though. 2180 about 192.

[DeanB]

More importantly, what apllication are you intending? The higher comppression ratio motor will require race gas and will be higher maintenance...

Apllication is class 10. The only reasons that I'm looking at this option is pump gas and lower maintenance.

[DeanB]

You lose about 3-4% of your power per compression point. Go 2180, 92's are still pretty reliable.

All things being equal, if your 2L had 200HP the 2110 would have about 185. The longer stroke your make for more torque on the bottom though. 2180 about 192.

Using your numbers a 2000cc at 12 to 1 is 200hp, a 2000cc at 9 to 1 is 188hp-191hp, a 2110 a 9 to 1 is ???hp. The extra 110cc must be worth something? BTW, I'm looking at a 76x94 motor.

[luckyride]

Apllication is class 10. The only reasons that I'm looking at this option is pump gas and lower maintenance.


buying or building something new for 2009. I met the new owners of 999 in mex. they were exicted about the car.

[Gonzo 5/1600]

Apllication is class 10. The only reasons that I'm looking at this option is pump gas and lower maintenance.

If you intend to race class 10 competitively unfortunately you'll have to have the high compression ratio and deal with the expensive fuel.

But if you're less set on getting all the power possible the reliability and affordability of the 9:1 would be much more pleasant.

[DeanB]

buying or building something new for 2009. I met the new owners of 999 in mex. they were exicted about the car.

As you know, Don and I shared the drive last year in my class 9. Don was not happy going nine car speed after racing class 16, 12 and 10 for the 4 years prior; so he told me he did not want to continue racing class 9. I either had to find a new partner or sell the nine and step up in class. Well the nine car sold and now we are putting together Don's Jimco. The one thing that scares us is the cost of engine maintance, so we have been looking for ways to cut the race-to-race cost.

[DeanB]

If you intend to race class 10 competitively unfortunately you'll have to have the high compression ratio and deal with the expensive fuel.

But if you're less set on getting all the power possible the reliability and affordability of the 9:1 would be much more pleasant.

Remember the saying "there is no replacement for displacement". In your opnion, how big does a 9 to 1 motor have to be to compare to a 2000cc at 12 to 1?

[Gonzo 5/1600]

I don't race class 10 but a brief look through the SCORE rulebook shows that the absolute biggest allowable displacment in class 10 is 2000cc so it seems like a moot point.

[partybarge_pilot]

BTW,I'm looking at a 76x94 motor.

Big cylinders=less cooling. Short stroke=no torque high reving motor.

You'd be way better off with 82X90.5

[DeanB]

I don't race class 10 but a brief look through the SCORE rulebook shows that the absolute biggest allowable displacment in class 10 is 2000cc so it seems like a moot point.

I'm not racing SCORE and after a conversation with the owner/president of the organization that I am racing, there is flexibility, as long as everyone agrees before hand. I have no intentions on arguing, I just wanted opnions.

[DeanB]

Big cylinders=less cooling. Short stroke=no torque high reving motor.

You'd be way better off with 82X90.5

So what do you think the extra 110cc is worth?

[partybarge_pilot]

So what do you think the extra 110cc is worth?

Slightly less than the race motor. A 2180 82X92 would be very close on power and still rilable.

[Scooterinvegas]

Slightly less than the race motor. A 2180 82X92 would be very close on power and still rilable.

82X92 would be way better than 76X94. More torque, and cooler cylinders.

[djblakely]

Has Doug shot this past Adam yet? What was his 2 cents on it?

I also have to agree that the longer the stroke the better the torque. I know you were looking at cost of cranks in making your choice, but "TORQUE" is your freind in this application. I would spend the money on stroke!!!

[DeanB]

Has Doug shot this past Adam yet? What was his 2 cents on it?

I also have to agree that the longer the stroke the better the torque. I know you were looking at cost of cranks in making your choice, but "TORQUE" is your freind in this application. I would spend the money on stroke!!!

I have talked with him several times about this motor.

Here is what Doug (one of my brothers) says:
1. The wall of the 94 is the same thickness as the 90.5 because it uses is a bigger cyclinder.
2. Don't go above 76 stroke with a wet sump because the oil splatters or something like that.
3. A 82 stroke will stress the case too much.
4. He claims Adam is the one that recommended this combo.

Feel free to add your input on this combo, but this thread was really just asking opnions about hp and torq compared to class 10 type 1 motor.

[partybarge_pilot]

1. The wall of the 94 is the same thickness as the 90.5 because it uses is a bigger cyclinder.
2. Don't go above 76 stroke with a wet sump because the oil splatters or something like that.
3. A 82 stroke will stress the case too much.
4. He claims Adam is the one that recommended this combo.

1. Cylinder wall thickness yes, air gap between the cylinders for cooling no.

2. Windage tray.

3. VW's have a 2-1 rod ratio stock for a reason. If your running a 82 crank you need 5.7 rods at least. Too low of a rod ratio will put to much side loading on the cylinders and they will move around taking out your head gaskets.

The long rod also have a lot to do with the small ports and valves in the heads......

[DeanB]

1. Cylinder wall thickness yes, air gap between the cylinders for cooling no.

2. Windage tray.

3. VW's have a 2-1 rod ratio stock for a reason. If your running a 82 crank you need 5.7 rods at least. Too low of a rod ratio will put to much side loading on the cylinders and they will move around taking out your head gaskets.

The long rod also have a lot to do with the small ports and valves in the heads......

You bring up some good points and I will ask some more questions.

[DeanB]

After further disscusion we have deceided to stick with the 76x94 combo. The thinking is a little out of the box, but after hearing input from a couple of the big engine builders we want to try this combo out. This is suppose to be a reliable setup and good for the desert. I quess time will tell.

[luckyride]

Get this thing going and I will be sure to beef up my rear bumper:D