whats better 5.4 fully built with the auto or a 351 and c6 and more relaible

[sublimedesert]

i was wondering what is better to build the 5.4 and shiftkit in the auto or do a 351 c or w and use a c6 trans i built alot of 351 before but i cant find anything really on the 5.4. Its going in 99 f150 or if there is any other engine that good hp and tq for around 6 to 7 grande thanks

[Prerunin554]

I would rather go with the 351, as there is a larger aftermarket parts catalog for it (internal parts). The 5.4 (330ci) is a good engine, but they have a tendency of spitting the spark plugs out and stripping the threads in the process....made alot of money off of those repairs....

And the transmissions that are available for the 5.4 from the factory are 4R70W or A4OD.
4 - four speed
R - reverse
70 - dont remeber what this stands for
W - wide ratio gears

A - automatic
4 - four speed
OD - over drive

[partybarge_pilot]

Hands down 351W.

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

Do you need to smog it in Idaho?

[Dirty Dog]

I have a stock 5.4 with bolt ons and a fully built 4r70w and it womps on built motors 302s, 351s and ls1s. But it does hate rain.

[sublimedesert]

no i dont have to smog where i live i was looking at 351 more cause of the parts i cant find anything on the 5.4. is there a good fuel injection system they make for offroad that wont clog up for the 351. i dont want carb cause its a pain offroad ive learned and if possible what cam or is there a site that has all this stuff lifted for a good engine build im going to be running 37's with 4 56

[Alex Paterson]

I have a stock 5.4 with bolt ons and a fully built 4r70w and it womps on built motors 302s, 351s and ls1s. But it does hate rain.

Why does it hate rain and what all have you done to the engine?

-Alex

[Dirty Dog]

Anytime the motor gets wet it tends to misfire a cylinder or two because of the coil and boot system. As far as the motor it has a polished intake elbow, throttle body, intake, no cats and a single magnaflow. I have headers but they won't fit because of the bump placement. I have flexalite elec fans and a diablo tuner. I had it dyno tuned and that is about it. The tranny is a built 4r70w I would rather have put a turbo 400 behind it but this was cheaper to do.

[formerly known as]

I would rather go with the 351, as there is a larger aftermarket parts catalog for it (internal parts). The 5.4 (330ci) is a good engine, but they have a tendency of spitting the spark plugs out and stripping the threads in the process....made alot of money off of those repairs....



had this happen yesterday to a co worker

[Prerunin554]

had this happen yesterday to a co worker

Happened to me twice! Both times i was going home from work, once on a friday:( luckly i was a ford tech at the time :D Guess who's vehicle got priority?

[formerly known as]

Happened to me twice! Both times i was going home from work, once on a friday:( luckly i was a ford tech at the time :D Guess who's vehicle got priority?

Just another reason i drive a Titan

[partybarge_pilot]

Just another reason i drive a Titan


I've seen more than a few of those at a dealer I do work for getting new motors put in. :eek:

[bajaruner11]

IMO 351W over any of your listed options.

[hoeker]

windsor or stroked 302 crate motor and a turbo 400.

[Alex Paterson]

IMO 351W over any of your listed options.

Could that motor be built to work with OBDII ?

-Alex

[partybarge_pilot]

Could that motor be built to work with OBDII ?

-Alex

Possible, but not practical.

[Alex Paterson]

Possible, but not practical.

Just trying to find a way to get more out of my F150 but retain the legal emission aspect of it without going with a blower.

-Alex

[partybarge_pilot]

I don't know about AZ, but in Kali you can't put an older motor in a new car. Any motor swaps the engine must be the same year or newer that the chassis. 351W stopped production in 96, OBD2 97 and up.

[Alex Paterson]

I don't know about AZ, but in Kali you can't put an older motor in a new car. Any motor swaps the engine must be the same year or newer that the chassis. 351W stopped production in 96, OBD2 97 and up.

Correct but in AZ we don't have the visual you guys do so if the engine read correctly in the OBDII port it would pass as all they do is plug the vehicle in and then check the fuel cap. I know I have asked this question a few times in here and have got some good response but I thought I would ask again. Honestly if I could come up with 400 or so HP I would be pretty happy as the truck makes ok power now.

-Alex

[Chris_Wilson]

351W stopped production in 96, OBD2 97 and up.

I think 96 351 with Calif smog had OBD-II.

[David Kennedy]

I have a '96 351W that's OBD II in my '96 Bronco.
Ford also offered the 351W in '97 F-250 and F-350 trucks, but those are from a higher, 8,600lb gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), class of vehicles.

[Alex Paterson]

I have a '96 351W that's OBD II in my '96 Bronco.
Ford also offered the 351W in '97 F-250 and F-350 trucks, but those are from a higher, 8,600lb gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), class of vehicles.

But could they made to work in an 02 Ford F150 in place of the 5.4L V8?

Alex

[Dirty Dog]

Why don't you just do head work and cam it. Then get it tuned. I am sure you could get reliable 400 at the crank from that. Easier than swapping cheaper too. Call the guys at modularmustangs.com.

[f1sleepy]

What cam are you running? I wouldn't mind squeaking a few extra ponies out of my 5.4.

James

[Dirty Dog]

stock. When this motor goes that is what I plan to do. I know comp cams makes one for the 5.4 that is a drop in. They make a few others that might be radical or need timing adj. People under estimate what a modular motor can do. The worst thing about them is the space they take up under the hood.

[Alex Paterson]

I spoke with Modular Mustangs about the 5.4L and they said you could get around an additional 30hp at the rear wheels with their Stage 1 heads and a new cam. I am not running headers or high flow cats or a programmer so I may be able to get 50+ additional at the rear wheels.

Is 50hp noticeable?

It would run about $3000 to do all this work. $2000 for the heads and cam and then the xtra $1000 for the programmer and headers.

Alex

[Dirty Dog]

I think 50 to the wheels would be really noticable. I wonder how much more torque it would have. When I dyno d mine I had a pretty bad exhaust leak on both gaskets but it made 100 more torque than hp.

[f1sleepy]

Thanks for the info.

James

[Alex Paterson]

I think 50 to the wheels would be really noticable. I wonder how much more torque it would have. When I dyno d mine I had a pretty bad exhaust leak on both gaskets but it made 100 more torque than hp.

What did you end up with on the dyno, what are your numbers?

-Alex

[Dirty Dog]

193hp 298 torque

[sublimedesert]

its probably better to just by a crate and change the cam and put fuel injection on the 351 then and i dont have to worry about all the other sensor stuff its 6000 for the crate and my motor needs rebuilt before i go race it and it seems like the 5.4 not the most reliable so i probably just chuck it and the the tranny.

[Alex Paterson]

If you don't have to worry about emissions then yes, I would remove the engine and tranny and all the mess of wire and toss in a 351w of some flavor and mate it up to a TH400. You will then have to rewire the truck as well as new gages and what not.

-Alex

[sublimedesert]

If you don't have to worry about emissions then yes, I would remove the engine and tranny and all the mess of wire and toss in a 351w of some flavor and mate it up to a TH400. You will then have to rewire the truck as well as new gages and what not.

-Alex

probably just easier to put new auto meter gauges and make a dash to prob and sell the old one for some cash do you know anyone that makes the same dash design out of carbor fiber or fiberglass thanks josh

[Alex Paterson]

probably just easier to put new auto meter gauges and make a dash to prob and sell the old one for some cash do you know anyone that makes the same dash design out of carbor fiber or fiberglass thanks josh

Tell what you are trying to do, are you building a race only truck or a daily driver/prerunner?

-Alex

[Alex Paterson]

Anybody have any experience with putting a Lightning motor in a non-Lightning F150? I am seeing these engines with ECU, Wire Harness, Instruments and Transmissions from $4000-$8000 bucks. I was trying to stay away from a blower but this may be the way to go and stay emission legal. There are all kinds of upgrades for these engines so I can pretty much get the HP numbers I would like to have and more if I want.

-Alex

[sublimedesert]

i building a class 8 truck i might drive it on the road a couple times since there not to harsh up here on vehicals but its going to be a race truck for sure i and then race it for a while well i build a tt truck. I figure if i i race this truck for four years and then im ready the tt truck will be almost finished. Whats the most competive fun class to race the 8 or open sportsman

[Alex Paterson]

A lot of people say the most fun and competitive class is 1600 soooo...that's not quite what you are building.

I would say it depends on the amount of entries in Class 8 if you want competition or if you just want to get out and race then it will not really matter. Just make sure you follow the SCORE rule book while building it to keep it in check with 8 rules or you will only be able to run it in Sportsman.

If you are building this to race then I would stay away from the 5.4L or any of the modular engines as they will be costly and difficult to build to the same HP as other Ford based engines, like the 351W.

-Alex

[Prerunin554]

Anybody have any experience with putting a Lightning motor in a non-Lightning F150? I am seeing these engines with ECU, Wire Harness, Instruments and Transmissions from $4000-$8000 bucks. I was trying to stay away from a blower but this may be the way to go and stay emission legal. There are all kinds of upgrades for these engines so I can pretty much get the HP numbers I would like to have and more if I want.

-Alex

Alex, getting a hold of one of these engines would benefit you in the long run. Not per say from the supercharger, but the fact that the shortblock is over-built from ford. The internals are not the same as your standard 5.4, most of which are forged to withstand the higher compression #'s. I don't recall all the facts from them, but it would be wise to start with this engine. The supercharger also has an water to air intercooler, so you have to run an additional radiator and external pump. One thing that is pretty cool about these engines as well is the oil cooler that comes on it, always beneficial.

As for placement in the engine bay; from the standard engine mounting points, the supercharger is somewhat close to the bottom of the cowl (non-modified). If you have the stock placement of the engine, caging this area will require a bit more thought of how to go about it, but then again, you said that your F150 was at H&M for a while, right? :D

Hopefully some of this info helped-

[Alex Paterson]

Alex, getting a hold of one of these engines would benefit you in the long run. Not per say from the supercharger, but the fact that the shortblock is over-built from ford. The internals are not the same as your standard 5.4, most of which are forged to withstand the higher compression #'s. I don't recall all the facts from them, but it would be wise to start with this engine. The supercharger also has an water to air intercooler, so you have to run an additional radiator and external pump. One thing that is pretty cool about these engines as well is the oil cooler that comes on it, always beneficial.

As for placement in the engine bay; from the standard engine mounting points, the supercharger is somewhat close to the bottom of the cowl (non-modified). If you have the stock placement of the engine, caging this area will require a bit more thought of how to go about it, but then again, you said that your F150 was at H&M for a while, right? :D

Hopefully some of this info helped-

Thanks for the reply. I have had the truck back from H&M since June but the work they did, with maybe the exception of the cross brace for the engine bay, should not intrude on the SC. I may have to redo that brace but other then that its should be fine.

I think at a simple cost base going this route will be a pretty good way to go. There are a lot of these trucks on the road (Lightnings) and a lot of them have low miles and then get totalled and sold for salvage so you can get a pretty good deal on one. I am sure I can recoup some money from my factory drive train, I would pull the engine and trans from mine and use the engine and (better) trans from the Lightning. I would freshen up the new engine while it is out and install some go fast(er) stuff on it before putting it in my F150.

So for now I just wait until I find the right time to do it.

Alex

[desertspeed]

Alex,

Check out http://www.f150online.com/ . There are a bunch of threads about people who have done the Lightning swap. Just search for "Lightning sawp" and you will find a bunch of info. I haven't really looked into it much, since I am not at that point yet, but it sounds like it is pretty common.

[Alex Paterson]

Alex,

Check out http://www.f150online.com/ . There are a bunch of threads about people who have done the Lightning swap. Just search for "Lightning swap" and you will find a bunch of info. I haven't really looked into it much, since I am not at that point yet, but it sounds like it is pretty common.

Ya, I joined that site this past weekend just for that reason. I think if you have the donor vehicle it should be pretty straight forward and if not that then have the engine, ecu, harness, instrument cluster and transmission it should be pretty easy. I have seen all of those parts for sale for good prices. I need to play catch up on the money I have spent so far but in the future that is the way I think I will go.

Hows your SC coming along, have you picked it up from H&M yet?

-Alex

[Sites]

For Lightning-specific discussion, checkout www.nloc.net

When my motor was stock, I pieced together some performance upgrades based on info from that site.

[Alex Paterson]

For Lightning-specific discussion, checkout www.nloc.net

When my motor was stock, I pieced together some performance upgrades based on info from that site.

I wish my motor was a simple upgrade like yours, well maybe not simple but a bit easier :)

How is it running?

-Alex

[desertspeed]

Ya, I joined that site this past weekend just for that reason. I think if you have the donor vehicle it should be pretty straight forward and if not that then have the engine, ecu, harness, instrument cluster and transmission it should be pretty easy. I have seen all of those parts for sale for good prices. I need to play catch up on the money I have spent so far but in the future that is the way I think I will go.

Hows your SC coming along, have you picked it up from H&M yet?

-Alex

Yeah- picked it up last Wednesday. It is sitting in my garage- I only have time to work on it in the evenings after my kids go to bed, and on occasional weekends. It took a couple of nights to clean out the interior really well so I don't get covered in metal dust every time I get near it. I have it completely level, and have my fuel cell mocked up into place. I just ordered 48' of 2.0 x.095 DOM to pick up on Fri, and this weekend I will try to get the rear section of the cage completed. I will update my thread with some pics when I can.

Sorry for the hijack

[Sites]

I actually just dropped it off with the dyno guy this afternoon. I hope to have it back by Friday or Saturday so I can drop it off for a short list of finish work (dash, tabs for airboxes, etc., etc.) I really want to take it out for the new years dash race.


I wish my motor was a simple upgrade like yours, well maybe not simple but a bit easier :)

How is it running?

-Alex

[amr126]

That lightning motor is solid as a rock. My brother used to have a GEN 1 lightning with a Vortech S trim blower, AFR 185 heads, ported GT40 intake, mass air conversion and full exhaust with plenty of traction and could muster a best of 12.22. The GEN 2 lightnings were running the same time with a pulley and exhaust with a tune, and some guys were running in the high 10's/ low 11's with the stock heads/ internals. My two cents is that motor in particular is better the the 351W.

[Alex Paterson]

That lightning motor is solid as a rock. My brother used to have a GEN 1 lightning with a Vortech S trim blower, AFR 185 heads, ported GT40 intake, mass air conversion and full exhaust with plenty of traction and could muster a best of 12.22. The GEN 2 lightnings were running the same time with a pulley and exhaust with a tune, and some guys were running in the high 10's/ low 11's with the stock heads/ internals. My two cents is that motor in particular is better the the 351W.

Well I hope to find out here someday, I think it would be the cherry on top of my truck!

-Alex

[sublimedesert]

i have the old chenowith class 10 car to that my dad gave me that has 2085 vw class from the 90s but i think i could bump it into the 1600 class now its got the vw front end i guess its the car right before they went to the coilover set up but i have that car almost back together i went through and have redone everything except build the new engine so i can be in a class i not going to beat by somone with 500 hp even though the motor hauls ass i building the 8 truck now so i can but i am going to race that chenowith car when i get back before i even think about running that truck. i get some pics up of both of them

[sublimedesert]

i wish we still lived down there because no one knows anything up here, i just heard a guy that use to work robby gordon pit crew moved up here and building some 7 trucks but i havent seen or heard of anything yet thanks for you guys help

[sublimedesert]

oh ya am i allowed to move my engine back or will i be good where it sits i got h and m on the front but im just wondering before i cage it.