Good welds????

[Wayside]

Have been practicing mig for a while now. Need to know if i am on the right track or not.

What do you guys think good...bad.... ugly:D

need some reviews

first pic is 1/8 flat bar with .030" wire 75/25 argon/co2 mixs

top,bottom,side

next 3 pics are another one. Please ignore the top weld i know it's bad, not enough penetration:D

top,bottom,side

last 4 pics air 22 gauge sheet metal, same wire and gas. This was what i think u guys call trigger welding (a series of tack welds one after another?? please correct me if i am worng) it was the only way i could do it without bruning through.

top,bottom

another one
top, bottom

also, anyway i can test these welds out for strength?

Thanks for all your help guys:cool:

[Chase 2]

You are waay too hot. Don't but your work right up against each other, so you actually can let the gap help your penetration. You will have a real hard time MIG welding 22 gauge doing anything but trigger welding. Keep at it you'll be a RDC hero in no time!

[atomicjoe23]

Like Chase 2 said you are HOT. . .

. . .also speed up your travel speed, for what you are welding there is WAY too much filler metal there. . .if you weren't so hot it would have ended up being a really tall bead if you had the correct WFS/voltage settings and the same travel speed. . .

. . .Chase is also correct that for the thinner metals trigger welding is generally what is done if MIG welding (this would be for things like bodywork, sheetmetal, etc.). . .better way to go for the thin stuff is TIG. . .

What machine are you using? what settings are you using? your gas flow looks good and the right type of gas as well. . .

. . .settings can vary widely with personal preference and welding style. . .it's more about getting the voltage/WFS ratio correct and varying the travel speed. . .some people like to weld fast and others slower. . .

. . .I settled on a setting of 19.5/235 for welding 1/8"-3/16" with a Millermatic 252 using 0.035 wire and 30 CFH 75/25 at the shop, but I just got a Millermatic 211 for at home and I'm still playing with it to find a setting I like (doesn't help that I don't have a 230V outlet yet and only a 15 amp breaker at the moment though!!!)

[Wayside]

thanks for the help guys, your input is much appreciated. Will definitely turn down the heat and work on the travel speed. As for the machine I am using a Lincoln 175hd 230v with the setting at E (max), and the wire speed at 7.5 out of 10. Basically what the door says. As for leaving a small gap inbetween pieces, i never really thought about that, i will definitely have to try that next time i go to get more bar to practice on. Also, is flat bar a good idea to practice on?? or should i use something else? I eventually want to be able to weld DOM tubing:cool:.

Thanks again

[Chase 2]

Most schools start you off with flat stock, but welded flat, then horizontal, then vertical, then overhead. All of it is easy because you can usually rest your non-trigger hand against something to steady your hand allowing you to keep the tip a constant distance from the weld. You won't be able to do that with tube and especially when you ever do a cage. Most of that work is done in what is known as "out of position". But really tube is tube except that the higher quality stuff welds better that the cheep stuff. DOM is easier to weld than cheap arsed "black pipe" or galvanized.

As far as the gap is concerned, on the real thin stuff but one side together and leave a slight gap at the other end (usually from 1 up to 2 thicknesses of the material being welded). See how your thin stuff is warped? Its because you didn't have gap and the two sides pushed together.

[atomicjoe23]

I can help you out here as well. . .I am finishing up my welding degree now. . .and what Chase said is true. . .I started on plate in the flat position and then went to horizontal, vertical, and overhead (not fun. . .caught my helmet on fire when a big piece of molten metal fell onto it while I was FCAW!!!). . .

. . .you are WAY too high in your settings for what you are welding. . .dial it back. . .both voltage and WFS. . .I don't know what the range of your machine is right off the top of my head, but it's a 230 so it should have enough that you don't need to be anywhere close to topped out on 1/8" material. . .the lower your voltage and WFS the slower you can go so that you can see what is going on. . .

. . .it takes a lot of practice to get where you can concentrate on more than one thing while welding. . .

. . .as far as tubing goes it takes some getting used to. . .what you learn on plate doesn't translate exactly over. . .one thing for sure you need to concentrate on keeping the tip of your electrode (wire) pointed directly into the joint. . . you will get uneven ugly looking beads around your pipe junctions if you do not. . .do not try to weld a piece of tube all the way around in one shot (at least not when you are first learning) and spend a lot of time practicing tying your starts and stops together to where there isn't a blob where you picked up where you left off. . .

on tubing joints the tighter the joint fit-up the better. . .you can fill some pretty large gaps, but it's alot easier to do if it's a tight joint. . .

. . .make sure you have a good quality helmet that you can see out of!!! The Miller Pro Hobby is a GREAT autodarkening helmet with good color without breaking the bank. . .it's about $160 compared to the almost $400 for the next step up in helmets. . .a good helmet makes it way easier to keep track of your joint

. . .here is where I'm gonna disagree with Chase though (sorry. . .just personal preference not saying your wrong Chase). . .when you are practicing on plate what we were taught in school is to use a piece of welding rod (oxy or TIG can't remember the diameter. . .I'll double check) and to place that between the two pieces of plate that you are welding, that will give you the correct distance between the two pieces and then you tack weld the two ends. . .your gap will remain constant that way. . .if you don't tack the end you are working your way toward they will grow apart not together and you will have a gap that is WAY too wide to fill. . .by leaving the slight gap (this is for butt welds) you will ensure complete penetration and fusion. . .for lap welds and tee joints just fit the stuff up nice and tight. . .

. . .I would suggest a lot of practice with tee joints on plate if plate is what yo have and you want to weld tubing. . .that's about as close as you are gonna get. . .this is where you will learn to control the work angle of the torch (angle of the torch in relation to the work. . .not travel angle which is the angle of the torch in relation to the direction you are moving), if you wiggle the torch and change the work angle (even just a little) then your weld bead will look like it wondered up and down the joint instead of being a straight line. . .this takes time and practice so don't get frustrated just keep working on it. . .concentrate on keeping the tip of the wire fed directly into the joint where the two pieces of metal meet. . .

. . .lastly fit-up is the number one thing that will affect your welds aesthetic appearance. . .make sure you are welding on clean metal, with clean filler, and good gas. . .make sure that your cuts are square. . .hit them on the belt sander to make sure. . .you will be amazed how much of a difference having a nice joint to work with can make on your welding. . .

. . .if you have any questions feel free to ask via the thread, PM or email (atomicjoe23@aol.com)

[Chase 2]

The gap will depend on how long the piece is as the larger the length of the weld the more gap you'll need at the far end. Material thickness also plays a large roll in how much you set your gap. Thicker material may actually require a bevel/chamfer (sp?) to obtain proper penetration without having to set a huge gap. It's all kinda "rule of thumb" stuff keep trying different stuff and see that works best for you. With TIG on flat plate I'll use the filler rod to set my gap, but I'll also try to clamp it into a backing plate to purge the backside, but I digress into TIG.

After flat but joints go to lap and then "T" joints in all positions. After you get the "T" down so you have equal penetration on the top and base, then move on to tube/pipe.

With tube/pipe the most difficult thing is to keep your torch angle constant to the puddle as you wrap your way around. Having a good technique for re-starting (after re-positioning the torch) along with tying into where the weld started goes a long way. Additionally with pipe & tube, different parts of the joint weld differently. Around the edge welds much hotter than down in the shoulder/valley.

[atomicjoe23]

The gap will depend on how long the piece. Material thickness also plays a large roll in how much you set your gap.

Very true. . .


Thicker material may actually require a bevel/chamfer (sp?) to obtain proper penetration without having to set a huge gap.

Although you generally won't have to worry about a bevel with the thickness of material that we normally would work with automotive stuff. . .if you get to where you are working on 3/8" then for sure bevel it. . .but you are definitely safe without a bevel up to 3/16" for sure. . .


It's all kinda "rule of thumb" stuff keep trying different stuff and see that works best for you.

practice, practice, practice. . .find what works for you and then fiddle with it until you get it perfected. . .there is no substitue for time behind the torch when it comes to welding. . .


With tube/pipe the most difficult thing is to keep your torch angle constant to the puddle as you wrap your way around.

This was one of my biggest problems when I was learning to weld on tube vs. flat stock!!!


Having a good technique for re-starting (after re-positioning the torch) along with tying into where the weld started goes a long way.

Like I said also. . .practice this a lot. . .what works for me is to start just ahead of where I left off. . .and do a quick stutter step backwards to tie into the previous weld and then move forward. . .don't hesitate too long at your restart or you'll end up with a giant blob of filler metal. . .

[Wayside]

Cool thanks again guys. I got a lot of different stuff to try out, hopefully this weekend. I definitely got to get some more metal now. Also for the spacing would a coat hanger work?

[atomicjoe23]

it will work. . .it's a little wide (try to get a smaller diameter one) but not by much. . .try a quarter, that would be about right for 1/8" plate for a flat butt joint. . .remember to keep the electrode wire pointing directly into the middle of the gap. . .

[DBMETALWORX]

like chase 2 said you are hot. . .

. . .also speed up your travel speed, for what you are welding there is way too much filler metal there. . .if you weren't so hot it would have ended up being a really tall bead if you had the correct wfs/voltage settings and the same travel speed. . .

. . .chase is also correct that for the thinner metals trigger welding is generally what is done if mig welding (this would be for things like bodywork, sheetmetal, etc.). . .better way to go for the thin stuff is tig. . .

What machine are you using? What settings are you using? Your gas flow looks good and the right type of gas as well. . .

. . .settings can vary widely with personal preference and welding style. . .it's more about getting the voltage/wfs ratio correct and varying the travel speed. . .some people like to weld fast and others slower. . .

. . .i settled on a setting of 19.5/235 for welding 1/8"-3/16" with a millermatic 252 using 0.035 wire and 30 cfh 75/25 at the shop, but i just got a millermatic 211 for at home and i'm still playing with it to find a setting i like (doesn't help that i don't have a 230v outlet yet and only a 15 amp breaker at the moment though!!!)

joe check it out..make a cord that plugs into your dryer outlet and your welder on the other end, you can get the stuff @ home depot..just remember that green is ground or common.. Also try your gas pressure lower. You'll find that gas is expensive when you buy your own.. On 1/8"-3/16" with .035" wire you should be able to run 22cfh with a little air movement around you, less in still air.. Outside i use fluxcore only, b-cuz of the effect of too much air movement.. Therefore @ every pit we use a ready welder, BATTERY POWERED WELDER w/fluxcore, .035 dc-. And this works on 4130, as well as any mild steel.
Oh yeah, glad to hear you are true blue!!! Miller is the only way to go!! I've had such TERRIBLE LUCK w/the red ones it's not even funny, new ones, old ones, plasma cutters...DOESN'T MATTER YOU CAN'T SELL ME A RED WELDER, OR PLASMA.. IVE HAD IT ALL...WELDING HOOD TO FUME EXTRACTOR... GAS POWERED "PIPELINER TO 110V MIG".THE PLASMA CUTTERS WERE THE WORST IVE SEEN TO DATE!!!!

[atomicjoe23]

Thanks for the suggestions DBMetalWorx!!!

I thought about the dryer outlet thing. . .and I'm gonna do that for just getting things going, but it's in an inconvenient location and the cord length needed to get it to a convenient location is longer than what is suggested. . .

. . .and yeah Blue all the way!!!

[DBMETALWORX]

thanks for the suggestions dbmetalworx!!!

I thought about the dryer outlet thing. . .and i'm gonna do that for just getting things going, but it's in an inconvenient location and the cord length needed to get it to a convenient location is longer than what is suggested. . .

. . .and yeah blue all the way!!!

what's your distance?

[DBMETALWORX]

Your machine needs 25 amps @ 230v. Try an 8-3 s-o cable.. S-o is what the electricians call extension cord cable, although 10/3 is probably fine.. If you pull too much amperage for your cord the breaker will trip.make sure your breaker is adequate.. Always over do your cord cuz @ a distance, you need more power..ie you will need to crank your machine up more than usual for the same material thickness, the longer your cord is..we often work up to 200" from the truck/power supply.

[atomicjoe23]

When I install the dedicated welder outlet I'm gonna use a double pole 50A breaker. . .I was planning on using 10/3 cable between the breaker and the outlet. . .

. . .the dryer is located in the daylight basement and the "welding area" is upstairs on the opposite side of the house. . .go figure!!!

[DBMETALWORX]

when i install the dedicated welder outlet i'm gonna use a double pole 50a breaker. . .i was planning on using 10/3 cable between the breaker and the outlet. . .

. . .the dryer is located in the daylight basement and the "welding area" is upstairs on the opposite side of the house. . .go figure!!!

that sucks man, looks like 110v it is.

[atomicjoe23]

I can still weld with 230V out of the dryer outlet. . .there is a concret porch right off of the daylight basement. . .it just won't be as convenient as having the dedicated welder outlet because I will have to carry everything down to the welder instead of having it all in one area. . .but hey at least I have a welder to use at home!!!

[Wayside]

Well have been trying the stuff that you guys recommended, and what a difference, especially with a small gap between pieces. A few more welds for you to look at. I’m not really sure if I need more penetration or not. Anything else I need to work on?

[atomicjoe23]

The last two pictures are better, but you still have too much filler metal going into the joint for that thickness of material. . .you need to speed up your travel speed or turn your settings down if you can't go fast yet.

Also it looks like that is probably 1/8" material. . .if it's 1/8" to 3/16" your gap is too large. . .you can shoot for about 1/16"-1/8" (max) of gap between the material for a butt weld like that, a piece of OFW or TIG rod works great as a spacer while you tack your two pieces together. . .you want just enough gap to allow the filler wire to feed inbetween the two pieces of plate. You can tell it's too much gap by looking at the backside of the material. . .you should be fusing the two pieces together, insteady you have a puddle of filler metal on both sides, there is such a thing as too much filler metal. . .you don't need anymore penetration because what you have now is 100% penetration, it's an open root weld. . .and a big one for the GMAW process without a backing plate.

What settings are you at right now, what thickness material are you welding, and what machine do you have. . .I can help you out with a base setting so that you can get a good looking weld and then you can fine tune the setting to your own personal preferences. Keep practicing. . .you'll get it!

[Wayside]

For my settings im at D for heat which is one lower then max. My wire speed is at a 5. Its 1/8 flat bar that I am trying new stuff out on. As for the unit its a lincoln 175hd. Thanks again for your help.

[atomicjoe23]

5 out of?

If you match your voltage and amp settings closer to the same range in the available spread as each other and then turn your voltage down another setting you should be getting close to a useable setting. . .like I said you will have to play with it some to find your own preference, but that should get you closer. . .you should be able to run both setting close to the middle of the dials for 1/8" plate.

Also your wire feed speed is how you control your amperage which is your heat setting and voltage is the electrical pressure. . .think of the voltage as the one that will control how wide you can make your puddle, the amps contol how much heat your putting into the weld. . .if you turn your settings down you can go slower so that you have more time to see what is going on with your puddle, once you can process what you are seeing then you can start going faster. . .

[Wayside]

5 out to 10 for wire speed. I tried again just playing around with the wire speed and heat I got this weld on 4 out of 10 for wire speed and D out of E for heat. Also used some washers to get the spacing in need right. I think I am a lot closer to where I should be. When I was welding it even sounded different. What do you guys think? Am i any Closer?

[atomicjoe23]

Looks quite a bit better. . .you do have a little undercut on the edges of the weld, where the weld looks like it's below grade, the goal is for the weld to be slightly above grade and for the edges of the weld to flow smoothly onto the base metal, but that looks a lot better. . .

. . .you may want to go down one step on both voltage and wirespeed. . .you might be able to slow down slightly without getting the undercut then. . .you are on the right track. . .play with the settings and weld, check your results and then make a small change and see what that change produces.

Always make your changes in only one variable at a time when you are experimenting otherwise you will be chasing yourself in circles. . .change only amps or voltage (not both) and then play, try just changing your travel speed and see what happens.

The great thing already is that your weld is straight and of consistent width all the way across. . .it appears that you are filling your craters which is also good (whether that is intentional or not I don't know but you shouldn't leave weld craters at the end of a weld, that is a stress riser and is inviting a crack to start forming right there), just keep practicing!

[KrAzY-Baja]

this may help a little
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee3/yamaha50/weldingposter004.jpg

[atomicjoe23]

That should get you a start. . .if you want to start getting into the "stack of dimes" look though that is all about finding a setting that you are comfortable with and that you can flow with. . .that takes practice and that's it.

[Wayside]

Thanks again guys for your help. Doing a stack of dimes is something that I would like to try eventually once I get the basics nailed down. Just few a questions about getting the stack of dimes look. How do you get it to have that look? Do you whip the weld back and forth or it there some other way? Also is there any advantage to doing a stack of dimes? Is it stronger then a regular weld at all?

I will post up more pics once I think I am getting closer.

Thanks again for your input. Better go practice some more :cool:

[atomicjoe23]

There are several different ways to achieve the stacked dimes effect. . .none are any better than the other (I am excepting the hotly debated "trigger" or spot welding technique from this discussion.

To achieve the stacked look you do have to do some form of osillation. . .you can whip, you can do C's, J's, or circles. . .that is just personal preference and none are any better than the other. . .I personally like ciricles and the whip, but that is just personal preference.

The stacked dimes is purely an aesthetic finish. . .it is not stronger than a properly run stringer bead, but in the same sentence it is not any weaker (as long as the welding technique used to achieve the look is sound that is).

Feel free to PM me if you want more info on the stacked dimes look.

[Wayside]

Well i have been working at this for a bit now. I find it easier by “whipping” the bead. Also i have been trying T joints as well. Need some reviews, what do you guy think? These are T joints done on 1/8 flat bar.

[matt_helton]

who stacks dimes? stack some quarters! ;)

[BRINGTHERUCKUS]

thats what i was thinking! :D lol

[BajaFand]

Your consistency is pretty good but I think you need to speed up just a little bit and work on keeping your path a little more straight.

[ryno427]

Turn the heat down on the machine for sure.. I taught myself how to weld.. I started off on flat stock. I also used to weld a lot of square tubing together. It helped me learn to fill a gap a flow everything together.. practice makes perfect.. It wont come to you right away. good luck