Starting line for PC races, need suggestions.....

[curt]

Anyone have any ideas on what to do with the start for PC? Unless it's widened and significantly lengthened there's no way we can fit 10 wide and with the points this tight I know nobodys going to lift....

Our idea would be to do qualifying to make a front row of 5 or 6 trucks and a back row for the rest. If you qualify for the front row you stay there for both moto's and if someone from the front row fails to make the secon moto, the next ruck from the back row can move up. This would be the most fair way that I can think of and keep the melee to a minimum. Talk it up and post some opinions or other suggestions so we can get Rich to evaluate them for workability and fairness. Curt

[billymanfroy]

Nad up.

[NORCALf150]

well first off whats the average number of trucks racing at PC, times ive been ive noticed 7 or 8 trucks, could you guys line up side by side in like 3 to 4 rows deep on a straight away maybe near the east turn depending on what direction the track is ran maybe near the flagers box????

[CPaul]

Nobody's gonna lift?
Jeeze...... we sure wouldn't want to have that!!!
That might almost be exciting or something!

Plus, if you alter the start, you are asking for ear loads of opinion and complaints.

But hey, if that's what you want, have fun!

[BRBoudreaux]

Just from my own unbiased, non-racer thinking................................

Qualifying would put some of the racers at an inherit disadvantage. With a combined class of open and limited trucks, a few of the racers would automatically be relegated to the rear with qualification runs.

Could set the field according to the points. Now this would leave the guys that haven't done every race in the rear if going from top to bottom.

Or go with the low point totals up front; but that may leave a faster truck or two trapped in the field. Same thing with doing a lottery for starting positions. Or could hold a drawing, with each driver picking what spot they want. Maybe with this system, a slower driver would be willing to start in the back so he doesn't get bumped and banged beyond belief.

Just had this idea pop up.................Elimination heats.....................................

If there's a minimum of ten trucks running, split the field in half with a drawing or qualifying runs. The fastest 5 run against each other, the slowest 5 run against each other. Run one heat. Second heat take the top three from each heat and throw them into the final heat.

Just some thoughts..................

[billymanfroy]

Run it like it is and we all try harder not to cut across the track until we're clear to do so. Problem solved. They do it with open wheel buggies w/o the kind of carnage we've seen in our class. Racing is tough and this is a great aspect of it. If you are uncomfortable starting side by side, you have the choice of staging behind everyone, which some people have done in the past.

[martininsocal]

Right on!- Isn't it funny how folks in open wheel cars tend to not get into each others rear wheels, but those in closed wheel cars don't hesitate to trade paint? Land rush!!! Maybe everyone needs a spotter to tell them when it is clear.

[curt]

I agree that there are ways to make it work, this is the question I am asking what can or should be done to improve the start at PC?.....It's not worth fighting over, I really don't care that much we'll just keep using the old glass and roll the dice with everyone else.

The reason I'm for a 2 row start is- a start by pairs on the straightaway in the past has proven to remove too much excitement from the start. I am a fan of the land rush start, I believe it was the single biggest improvement in the last 5 years, but until this year we only had half this many trucks on the line, it's not even wide enough to stage without someone starting in the crap on one or both ends let alone 2 truck lengths in front of the line where its already narrowed by what 25%-35%?

Reasonable contact doesn't bother me, Patty does the bodywork anyway, but someones going to get hurt sooner or later and not everyone in our class wants to deal with the carnage every race. We've been responsible for contact and have always apologized for it. Other than small nerfs in the desert to let someone know we were there we have never intentionally touched another vehicle

Remember how long it took us to get to this truck count and how many times we had a very poor count- like last year when we didn't have a class until the 2nd race or this year with no 7s class, and numerous years where the competition was a snoozer cause there weren't any trucks of the same speed, we need to make sure everyone is having a good time and no one goes broke doing this so we can count on a nice large field with great competition, it's hard enough to get some people to run shortcourse and if it continues down the smash up derby path the class will suffer....Curt

[billymanfroy]

Curt,

I think you missed my point a little here. Sorry for that. I am NOT trying to fight over this, I was just giving my opinion like you asked.

I do my bodywork, and when I can't fix it, I have to pay for new stuff. The ONLY damage on our bodywork right now (minus the BITD tunnel episode) is from the 1st two races of the year. When Patty and Fred got tangled up two laps in a row in the east hairpin (which has nothing to do with the start), it turned Fred's bumper into a can opener. Muffler tubing doesn't make a good bumper, but it makes a great weapon! I lost my left front fender and headlight door when he cut over to block one of my many passing attempts.

The damage on my hood came from that cluster f**k start when Patty did a Joey Chitwood impression and bicycled it across 4 lanes and stopped with her tranny on my hood.

The right door and bedside damage came from the 2nd April moto when Patty squeezed me and Oscar into the weeds from the 4th lane entering the first turn. After the right side of my truck started caving in on Oscars truck - who graciously had all 4 wheels in the weeds - I held my line and Patty kept coming and turned herself around on my front bumper. Are you sensing a pattern here?

It doesn't matter how we start if people don't give others room to race. You have to pass someone with the WHOLE truck, not just a fender before you can take over the line they're on. You and I already talked about and looked at the video together. I also worry about the starts, but I'm confident I'm not going to accidentally kill someone because I don't know where the other trucks are. I also am able to hit the brakes when necessary to avoid damaging another competitor's vehicle - even if I think they are in the wrong at the time.

If you think I wouldn't like to go off qualifying times, you are mistaken. I don't think there'd ever be a time where I wouldn't be on the front row unless I broke during qualifying. Hell, I'd be ecstatic to go SINGLE FILE off qualifying times. That said, it's terribly unfair to the guys who don't have the experience or equipment that you and I do. At least they have a fighting chance with everyone lined up together. You want to lose trucks, relegate the "slow" guys (which we all have been at one time or another) to the back and they'll lose interest in a hurry.

Maybe after we do the driver's meeting we can stay after school (again) and talk about it with everyone there all at once. Can't we all just get along?!?

Billy

[Driftin]

If every body goes straight untill their clear to change directions there shouldnt be any problems. Maybe some of the drivers need a spoter to tell them when they are clear... http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Driftin]

PS.... It will all be over by Halloween...... http://www.race-dezert.com/vb3/attachments/old/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[CPaul]

For those of you that have been around for three or more years, you might remember when we started all classes up by the S/F line in rows of two and inverted the feild for the second moto. Now some would say this was better, and some of course would say it was worse. It's a matter of opion I suppose. But just for argument's sake, Curt, would you, (or anyone else for that matter) be interested in trying the old style again?

[billymanfroy]

I drove when it was like that. The land rush is way better and way safer IMHO.

[NORCALf150]

i can see why the land rush start might be safer now, being that if you start side by side in rows and your stuck behind a slower truck that has no offense and all he can do is block you at every turn a crash at speed would be alot more dangerous than a tangle on the start but hey I dont race but from a spectator the land rush looks more exciting

[curt]

No, I wouldn't want to go back to the old way, the land rush is still better. Last year with only 4 or 5 trucks on the line there was more room and time to get the trucks settled before the turn. All I'm trying to get done is either thin out the amount of vehicles a very little bit or better yet make it not neck down so fast or make the wide section 30 or 40 feet longer to create a little more separation.

I rewatched all our videos from both our camera and from the camera on top of the start-finish shack from the first 2 races and looked for anything that we or anyone else could have done different. Looking at the moto where we got rolled over specifically I just don't see it, Patty was starting to go sideways in less than 1 truck length and from the angle and distance I never saw turned her wheels turned left so she didn't crowd anyone and cause that incident.

Previously we did qualifying but it really didn't serve a purpose other than entertainment since we did an inversion between moto's. I was hoping a qualifying session might be a fair way get the trucks on a shorter line in a position to race hard with less potential problems at the start. I don't know if there is a way to widen the starting line area maybe all the way back to the edge of the track which would also lengthen the run up area allowing for more time to get the trucks settled before the first turn.

If thre truck is ready we are going to practice the Sunday before the race, if anyone is interested maybe we should just look at it and see if there is enough space to make some adjustments to the starting area to allow some more racing room. Curt

[WFODAN]

I am thinking about coming up for the october race , if it is at the same place you are talking about . My only concern is that I don't want someone to try and use my truck as a corner barrier . I have raced many desert races for years and yes i do realize that collisions do happen , but it seems to me that some of the drivers in the video clips I've seen from PC don't even try to make a clean pass . I would really like to make the trip up and run with you guys , but like I said , I just don't want to have to replace the whole body when I come home . Any input would be greatly appreciated . Thanks ,

[curt]

Dan it really is a hell of a lot of fun and is our racing of choice. We've been racing PC for 5 years and usually big contact is not a problem. Once the race starts going, there's enough room to run side by side for a fair amount of time and we don't usually have more contact than a little side to side rub.

In the moto Bill was talking about when Patty and Fred coming together during the first 2 laps in the east hairpin was definately our fault, our truck pushed like a dump truck and by the time it turned she was on line to connect with Fred, since she had a 3 truck lead 3/4 of the way through the corner she felt she would clear him but his truck accelerated good and ours scrubbed off too much speed and we both ended up in the same real estate at the same time.

The contact is usually minimal and everyone usually comes off the track with no hard feelings and excited with how good the racing was. We all welcome more people to come have fun with us, be sure to check the SCORE class 7 rules we all try very hard to conform to them.....Curt

[NORCALf150]

id love to see Dan make it up to a race it would be worth your trip

[billymanfroy]

Dan,

PLEASE come up and race with us. It ain't hard "CORR" racing by any means. (I made a funny)

BTW, I saw in another thread your scary motor is for sale for a grand?!? I bet Curt and Patty would be all over that, since they just had LC go through theirs and don't have a back up as far as I know.

Like Curt said, contact is rare and of course you only have seen the highlights. Who wants to watch 8 laps of in car footage when the biggest excitement is us waving at the photographers in the corners??For every clip or pic we've posted, there's 20-30 laps of pure clean racing where everyone's driving smart and comes home happy. All of us are in the same boat with $ and repairs and nobody EVER intentionally hits anyone, so you can rest assured everyone will be on their best behavior with some new guys in the mix. I promise you if you guys make this trip you will have a friggin blast! (Did I mention Centerfolds is a few miles from the track???)

Let me know if you guys need anything to make it happen or have any questions.

Billy

[WFODAN]

All I need is the contact info and such for the race . My truck is 7 legal so it should be no problem for tech purposes . I am really trying to make it happen . My last race of my MDR season isn't until November 22nd I believe , so October is wide open . Ya my motor is for sale cheap , but it does need to be freshened up . Just rings and bearings mostly . Other than that it's good to go . I'll let you know as the time gets closer whether I can make it or not . My next race is in three weeks so I am busy busy trying to make the new V6 fit and run in the truck as it is . Talk to you later .

[billymanfroy]

Dan,

Park Map:
http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=1222

Area map
http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=1223

You may want to email the promoter Rich Klein just to warn him you and Gregg are coming and find out about entry fees, etc. He checks this board, but his email is: bigrich@d-web.com

http://www.vorra.com You can click on this and go to "General Race Info" There's a good hotel nearby also that usually has free drinks for us on Sat night and then you get a full breakfast (not fruit cup) made to order as part of the deal. Or you can sleep in the back of your truck like I do...

Hope you can make it, bro! I promise you're going to dig this!!!

[WFODAN]

Cool cool brother !!

I assume that i can just bring my motorhome in and stay at the track then ?? Thanks for all the info .

[billymanfroy]

Yep. I think it's like $10 to camp at the track which is what 99% of the people do.

[NORCALf150]

this could be an awesome race

[curt]

Broc is also still trying to get his truck together for the last race also, packed field of damn fast trucks....Curt

[billymanfroy]

Curt,

I talked with Steve Sullivan, who "loans" the tractors and operators to Rich for P.C. and he said it would be no problem to widen out the starting area a little bit on each side. He also said they might start us further back to give everyone a chance to get more sorted out before the first turn.

Thought you'd like to know!

Billy

[curt]

WOOOOHOOOOO, that's all I was hoping for, the added length may work even better than the widening or hopefully reduced taper. Just provide a little more time to sort the field so everyone has a better chance to get to the first turn.....Also for the last race if Broc and Dan show, that line should be very full... Curt

[prerunner1499]

I thought it was the CO-Drivers RESPONSABILITY to make sure the vehicle is clear before moving over in ANY passing situation?
I thought that most class 7 rides have 2 people in the cockpit!
Just a couple of random thoughts from a buggy driver