Brake cleaner + welding = BAD!

[Armistice]

Taken from DR

http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm

Send to other fabbers you know

[CMazzulla]

I have done this also, I felt like dying.

[steveG]

Good to know! I've used it but haven't had problems... yet. I guess I'll start using carb cleaner!

[jbarker@banks]

Some scary stuff there

[mikeyfrombc]

sounds like the old RAPID TAP cutting oil from many yrs back it was a clear liquid that felt very cold on your skin if you got it on your fingers ( done it more times then i can remember ) the stuff made tapping SS a breeze , but don,t breathe in the smoke if you used it while threading or powertapping , the stuff would attack the heart and cause you to black out , scary crap they changed the formula 15yrs back or so , actually it,s changed a couple times . the old stuff DON,T USE IT ON CAST IRON !!!! if you ever come across a old jug it,s turns to sicinid gas when in contact with the cast iron .

[Chase 2]

Kind of like working with beryllium-copper, deadly fumes generated from simple machining.

There is more to welding than whipping and weaving!

[WoodyW]

Good to know! I've used it but haven't had problems... yet. I guess I'll start using carb cleaner!


Use denatured alcohol.

[Armistice]

I use acetone/ rubbing alcohol

[mikeyfrombc]

i know on the few sets of Manley Ti valves i,ve modified it states in big letter do not wash parts with BRAKE KLEEN!!!on the inside lid of the box, there,s some kind of chemical reaction bwteen the two

[mikeyfrombc]

was just rereading the article he stated he was welding a diesel tank , i know from the previous shop that anytime we had to work on one they guy bascially wore a hazmat type suit and outside breathing source due to some type of bacteria that can cause all types of health issues .

[randy1123]

Use denatured alcohol.

Why? What is in this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00102.htm

[De Ranged]

Damm! :eek: I"ve been using brake cleaner for yrs when I've been welding hydrolics... its one of the only things that I've found that can get rid of the hydrolic fluid good enough to stop it wicking back in towards the weld and contaminating the weld...
Thats a real wakeup call !!

[1audiohack]

The magic ingredient is clorine. Any clorinated lubricants and or solvents including refrigerants, and halons will breakdown into these extremely hazardous compounds if exposed to glowing metal (welding) or flame, like through a running engine.

Not to minimize the dangers but I would have to guess that guy made more than one puff of it as many of us have done worse and lived to tell. I am way more carefull now!

The clorine Ti issue is widely known in the aircraft and aerospace industry and has been for at least 40 plus years. The prostock guys found out the hard way around 10 or 15 years ago with brakeclean (then made with triclorethylene) contaminated solvent in the wash sinks. It causes stress corrosion in Ti.

Some aftermarket engine oil addatives are clorinated as well, great for your LS7 or Pro2 engine I'm sure. The oil industry decided during WW2 that they would never use it in production automotive engine oils so your safe there.

[WoodyW]

It evaporates extremely well and has better solvent properties than straight rubbing alcohol. Cuts oils better in my experience and goes away really quick. Whether it's methanol or naptha additives that make it work so well I don't know...but it is used as a marine stove fuel so I would hope no crazy carcinogens or poisons other than CO are being given off if you happen to burn it. It works well.



Why? What is in this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem00/chem00102.htm

[Dezertpilot]

Extremely scary schtuff!

[atomicjoe23]

was just rereading the article he stated he was welding a diesel tank , i know from the previous shop that anytime we had to work on one they guy bascially wore a hazmat type suit and outside breathing source due to some type of bacteria that can cause all types of health issues .

While working in the shipyard we had to enter diesel and other fuel tanks fairly often. . .they had to be ventilated for days non-stop before they would even let us enter to tour the space wearing masks. . .diesel is some nasty stuff and I wouldn't want to be one of the guys welding on a diesel storage tanks, that's for sure!


The magic ingredient is clorine. Any clorinated lubricants and or solvents including refrigerants, and halons will breakdown into these extremely hazardous compounds if exposed to glowing metal (welding) or flame, like through a running engine.

Refrigerant decomposes into phosgene gas when exposed to a flame or any other heat source that glows red (heated metal, a cigarette tip, etc.) and that is one of the primary gases that Hitler used in his extermination facilities during WWII (at least that was what I was told while I was in my York 1-ton R-114 unit maintenance classes. . .), that is some scary stuff, the other bad thing about it is that it's heavier than air, so if you breathe it in it's not coming right back out and can take an EXTREMELY long time to be removed from your respiratory system!

EDIT: I hadn't finished reading the article in it's entirety when I posted the phosgene gas tid-bit above, sorry for the redundant information.

All I have to say is SCARY AS HELL!!! I will definitely be double checking warning labels much more carefully and taking them more seriously now. . .I don't want to get hosed like that just because I didn't believe a warning label!

[Dave_G]

Kind of like working with beryllium-copper, deadly fumes generated from simple machining.


Well, not quite. I machine the stuff all day long and it's not a problem. Where you get into trouble is very fine dust particles from grinding or sanding operations without coolant to keep the dust down. And even then you have to be exposed for a very long time. Kind of like black lung that coal miners get except the Beryllium attacks the liver. If your just making chips it's a non issue.

[socalmoto]

Well this sucks. Ive been using brake clean for years now because it cleans into places I cant get to easily with a rag and its so quick to just spray over the weld area. Now im gonna have to wipe stuff before welding and take more time damnit . . . though I guess Id live longer hahah

[Samco Fab]

I had the same thing happen to me with brakleen about 12 years ago, I thought it was just chlorene gas, that is scary.

My experience is that the brakleen that is "extremely flamable" is ok to use for welding cleaning as long as you dont blow yourself up.

The evil brakleen is the non flamable brakleen. If it dont burn, dont use it. I hate being burned, but breathing that gas is worse than being burned.

Take this with a few grains of salt, there is probably some exception.;)

[socalmoto]

My experience is that the brakleen that is "extremely flamable" is ok to use for welding cleaning as long as you dont blow yourself up.

Youre sure on this? Ive only used the flammable kind and really like using brake clean before welding.

[cixelsyd]

[QUOTE=atomicjoe23;876914



Refrigerant decomposes into phosgene gas when exposed to a flame or any other heat source that glows red (heated metal, a cigarette tip, etc.) and that is one of the primary gases that Hitler used in his extermination facilities during WWII (at least that was what I was told while I was in my York 1-ton R-114 unit maintenance classes. . .)[/QUOTE]
I always heard is was Zyklon B (Hydrogen Cyanide with a stabilizer and a warning odorant) that was used in the gas chambers. Phosgene was used alot during WW I though. I could be wrong though.

[atomicjoe23]

I could be wrong as well. . .I'm not super knowledgeable on WWI or WWII stuff. . .just passing on what I was told while I was out a refrigeration unit school and we had to deal with R114. . .I know the decomposing into poisonous phosgene gas part is true though!

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

We used to clean with Brake Cleaners or Carb Cleaners over a trash can in the garage. One time I was welding up some spring plates in the vise and I hear the Woooomp! sound through my helmet, but I didn't see anything - next thing I know my partner is yelling. I pulled my helmet off to find the whole garage covered in burning rags and trash that had blown out of the can. My partner was doing CVs and his hands were covered in secret sauce and he couldn't get the fire extinguisher with his greese hands. The only real damage was a burned couch that was being stored - we got lucky.

[oma979]

I work in the HVAC feild and refrigerant can give off some nasty phosgene gas one puff of that and you'll be seeing stars.