I got my 2.4 Ecotec from Turnkey

[DeanB]

We are putting a 2.4 Ecotec in our class 12 car. The dyno sheets showed about 190hp and 180tq on pump gas.:D I know we don't fit in any class but this was the car we had and the motor we wanted. Racing is expensive and this should help the cost of prep and fuel.

I hope that others will consider this motor in thier 10 or 12 cars and maybe someday even have a class. (I know its a long shot.)

Next time your ready to send in your motor for that 10g to 20g rebuild, maybe you can consider this 5,500$ alternative.

[43mod]

sounds like a 3000 car now.

[DeanB]

sounds like a 3000 car now.

My wheelbase is too long for 3000.

[ScottWisdom]

Keep us posted on how it turns out. We toyed with the idea of putting a 2.2 Ecotec in our 12 car so that we could run the new SCORE Class 4.

CLASS 4 / UNLIMITED 2.2-LITER OPEN WHEEL
DEFINITION - Unlimited 4 wheel, single or two seat vehicles. Limited 2.2-liter sealed engine

[craigincali]

You are NOT class 4 legal, it is a 2.2 ecotec class. Congrats on the motor! I say run sportsman or just say "screw it" and run class 1.

[CRAIG_HALL]

This MECO owned by Kevin Ellis has a 2.4 ecotec. I raced it at the MORE freedom 250 and was a blast.. I can't compare to any other 12 car though as I've never driven one..

[bajaxp]

I spoke with Casey about this (allowing 2.4L Ecotecs in Class 10 or 1000) about three months ago. He said he was interested, because it wouldn't create any new classes...which is something he doesn't want to do. He gave me the pitch on class 3000, but agreed that over a complete season, an Ecotec might be competitive due to reliability. He also said that Class 10 needed something to build entries. If others like the idea call Casey.

[bajatex]

I agree, I think Score & BITD should consider this as an option for class 10.

[racer56]

2.2 & 2.4 Ecotec's should be allowed in class 10, as long as they are sealed stock engines.

[xterra]

2.2 & 2.4 Ecotec's should be allowed in class 10, as long as they are sealed stock engines.

Aren't hondas more HP? Why would you enter a race in a class with an underpowered engine?

[racer56]

Aren't hondas more HP? Why would you enter a race in a class with an underpowered engine?

Honda's do make more horsepower, that's why Ecotec's should be allowed. More cars in class ten will only help the payback for the winners.

[xterra]

I think it's the other way around. BITD, MORE and the other organizations should open wheelbase etc just the way SCORE did, then all the 10 cars could switch engine and race in class 3 or 4. What we need is homologation of rules between organizations on the ecotec class.

[DeanB]

Aren't hondas more HP? Why would you enter a race in a class with an underpowered engine?

We got no expenses spared honda done by WIKS. It had 210HP and only around 100tq±. You have to look at more than just HP.

[craigincali]

I think its a terrible idea to change class 10. If you want a more affordable class then buy a car that is legal in another "afforedable" class. Why should BITD, SNORE, ETC change classes for YOU? If you cant afford class 10 then dont build a class 10 spec car. (This isnt directed at any individual or team) It just kills me when people build a car then insist a class be created for them.

I am building a car for SCORE Class 4 (I cant afford class 10 at all or all the engine rebuilds needed in class 12). However, I dont intend to race SCORE. I will probably race it in sportsman somewhere or class 12 at MDR. Im not gonna go to SNORE or BITD and beg them to make a class for me.

Rumor has it BITD is considering a ecotec class that is open to anything as long as it has a sealed ecotec in it. I dont know how true this is and I dont know if they are considering a 2.2 or 2.4.

[Hollowpoint]

BITD made a controversial change for 7200 and look at their entry numbers. I think it's time for them to lead the way with common sense again. It will be an awkward transition and there will be complaints. However, by 2011 we'll be looking at bigger entry numbers, smaller(slightly) prep bills, ecotec cars with standard wheelbases, smiles on racers' faces, and never look back.

Just for one moment, take a hard look at class 10: they break top 10 overalls. It's such a fast class but it's also been called "the worst bang for your buck". Ecotecs will never be as fast as built b16s, but the good outweighs the bad by far.

[bajaxp]

I think its a terrible idea to change class 10. If you want a more affordable class then buy a car that is legal in another "afforedable" class. Why should BITD, SNORE, ETC change classes for YOU? If you cant afford class 10 then dont build a class 10 spec car. (This isnt directed at any individual or team) It just kills me when people build a car then insist a class be created for them.

I am building a car for SCORE Class 4 (I cant afford class 10 at all or all the engine rebuilds needed in class 12). However, I dont intend to race SCORE. I will probably race it in sportsman somewhere or class 12 at MDR. Im not gonna go to SNORE or BITD and beg them to make a class for me.

Rumor has it BITD is considering a ecotec class that is open to anything as long as it has a sealed ecotec in it. I dont know how true this is and I dont know if they are considering a 2.2 or 2.4.

Well...unless I am missing something, we are not asking BITD to change a class...just allow a sealed Ecotec to race. The rules already allow the larger, lighter, torqueyer VW's to play with the high zoot four valve, liquid cooled Hondas (and yes older Toyotas). So why not allow the 2.4L Ecotecs? They don't have a horsepower advantage...so let them race. Sealed stock engine on pump gas? Seems good to me! :)

[07FJRog]

Well...unless I am missing something, we are not asking BITD to change a class...just allow a sealed Ecotec to race. The rules already allow the larger, lighter, torqueyer VW's to play with the high zoot four valve, liquid cooled Hondas (and yes older Toyotas). So why not allow the 2.4L Ecotecs? They don't have a horsepower advantage...so let them race. Sealed stock engine on pump gas? Seems good to me! :)

so who builds them and seals them?

[craigincali]

BITD has a class for cars that dont belong in any other cvlass...... I am not trying to argue the point, just stating an opinion. SCORE actually made the best descision IMO (I cant believe I just said that!) by making class 4. Air cooled vs water cooled.....more displacement vs more torque.....those are the issues

[DeanB]

so who builds them and seals them?

http://www.turnkeyenginesupply.com/

The 2.4 is not listed but they are selling them. Same package as the 2.2, just a few more c.c.s.

[Sparky]

Well...unless I am missing something, we are not asking BITD to change a class...just allow a sealed Ecotec to race. The rules already allow the larger, lighter, torqueyer VW's to play with the high zoot four valve, liquid cooled Hondas (and yes older Toyotas). So why not allow the 2.4L Ecotecs? They don't have a horsepower advantage...so let them race. Sealed stock engine on pump gas? Seems good to me! :)

Hmmm, 2.2L for the single seat, 2.4L for the two seaters...

[diirk]

CBM also has the 2.4's. The benefit with the 2.4 is the VVT, but you have to have an ECU that supports it, the MEFI5 for instance. You can get a 2.4 with MEFI4, but you loose the benefit if the VVT.

[ScottWisdom]

Dean - How are things coming along with the new powerplant?

[DeanB]

I wish we were that far along. We will get the frame blasted in a week or two and then start bolting stuff on. I dont imagine the buggy will be running for a few months.

[fullthrottle]

Hmmm, 2.2L for the single seat, 2.4L for the two seaters...

I'm ready for a modification to SCORE Class 4 to allow a 2.4L Ecotec for two seaters, since I converted my 12 car with the 2.4L more power and torque in addition to great reliability and the motor was only $500.00! I'm never going to spend over $1,000.00 for a replacement Ecotec unlike the $11,000 I spent for a 1835 VW.

I will continue to race this car in Sportsman and prerun with it before I race my Full Potential F1 Lite Class 3000. Hopefully next season there will be an actual class for the longer wheelbase Ecotec powered cars.:D

[ACME]

As a TL owner who's lumped in with all the other cars at anything other than a TL race I'm curious. If the motors are to be supposedly stock/sealed as from the MFR per the rules of SCORE/BITD etc... as it states here under class 2 (which does not show the 110WB, live axle rule...): http://score-international.com/technotes.aspx how does this ad with a motor with changed internals qualify? http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/trader/atl.cgi?ct=5&md=second&id=1227 Further it also states in the SCORE rule that you must use a "Stock Delphi MEFI ECU"; and after speaking with a few tuners and knowing you can tweak a comp and play the tuning game and have significant effects on HP. How is this going to be regulated? In TL we have constraints however, it's kinda like the wild west and unless it is controlled I can already hear the whining. PS the Term Stock is defined as; As delivered by the manufacturer...

[diirk]

That's a good question. My understanding was that the internals needed to remain stock.

[diirk]

OK, a little more research shows that the stock motor comes with forged pistons. I'm going to assume that the forged "racing" pistons, are the stock ones.

[ACME]

This class raises a lot of questions and as usual I enjoy playing what I know some may view as the a$$ho1e and I'm okay with that... There have been quite a few comments regarding this class in various threads. Some even alluding to "dynoing" engines etc... If the premise is to have a resonably equal playing field from a motor perspective to keep the costs down?; and the theory was stock Ecotech's; initially based on the 2.2L, but then the more powerful 2.4's were added which automatically gives an advantage to the bigger motor? Who/how did that happen, probably a mistake... as the initial theroy was based and proposed with both the Fusion and TL's vehicles running and based around the 2.2L's... And you have to guess based on human nature that someone is going to spend money to dyno and tune their motor and I'm guessing they won't be content with what they have and might be open to looking for more power in what was supposedly a sealed motor and stock ECU configuration. Theoretically the only real tuning to a "stock" motor would be either to the: Header (which I doubt many have had headers changed or are tuning and reworking the headers while dynoing or based on the dyno #'s) or the "Stock ECU" which then raises the question: "Is it stock anymore? of What constitues stock?" I've watched a very competent tuner/builder run a class 1 car on a chassies dyno and tune/play with the ECU/Comp on a pump gas, stroked V8 and watched significant horsepower gains happen just by tweaking the computer... Now you have someone marketing a motor with "Forged Racing Pistons" and people exchanging ECU's/comps looking for that trick combination. Playing the; "Devils Advocate": Based on all this theory; how will this limit the motor budgets and keep costs down as isn't this what happened in all the other classes? The beauty of this sport is how adaptive we are at consistantly looking for an edge, always tweaking... The downside is if hard limits aren't imposed this class will end up like most of the others... Example: History goes that someone in class 11 used race fuel because in Mexico pump gas wasn't good enough and though the rule stated pump gas it was allowed and that somehow ended up evolving into having to have a 11:1+ tweaker motor to even run competitively in that class (believe me the wifes 11 had a very good 9 pump gas 9 car motor and was very dialed and we'd watch lesser cars and IMO drivers go by due solely to the motor differences...). IMO one topic that needs to be universally governed to the same single standard by all of the sanctioning bodies; are limitations on the motors/systems. Just an idea: If they are inspected-certified then sealed with only "stock internal components" by 2-3 legit builders or???, fuel injection kept stock and ECU's/comps set to specific limited std's then locked, the class will flourish. If it's left open, it will be just like any other class and costs will escalate. TL and Protruck both have mandated motor programs and I can tell you our ECU was inspected and motor seal checked to make sure of compliance at the Glen Helen TL event and I was told the same happened at Primm and that levels the field and guarantees the stock Ecotech intent of these classes. Not to be a dick (can't hel myself...) but: Give an inch and "someone" will take a mile, guaranteed; and if there is little or no enforcement and the rules are grey IMO this is set up to fail. Not saying that TL is perfect but after racing in a number of classes over the years and watching the all the changes and the supposed evolution, one thing we looked for when getting into a new class was a level playing field and the theory of the "Ecotech" classes was supposed to be based on that premise...

[bajatex]

This class raises a lot of questions and as usual I enjoy playing what I know some may view as the a$$ho1e and I'm okay with that... There have been quite a few comments regarding this class in various threads. Some even alluding to "dynoing" engines etc... If the premise is to have a resonably equal playing field from a motor perspective to keep the costs down?; and the theory was stock Ecotech's; initially based on the 2.2L, but then the more powerful 2.4's were added which automatically gives an advantage to the bigger motor? Who/how did that happen, probably a mistake... as the initial theroy was based and proposed with both the Fusion and TL's vehicles running and based around the 2.2L's... And you have to guess based on human nature that someone is going to spend money to dyno and tune their motor and I'm guessing they won't be content with what they have and might be open to looking for more power in what was supposedly a sealed motor and stock ECU configuration. Theoretically the only real tuning to a "stock" motor would be either to the: Header (which I doubt many have had headers changed or are tuning and reworking the headers while dynoing or based on the dyno #'s) or the "Stock ECU" which then raises the question: "Is it stock anymore? of What constitues stock?" I've watched a very competent tuner/builder run a class 1 car on a chassies dyno and tune/play with the ECU/Comp on a pump gas, stroked V8 and watched significant horsepower gains happen just by tweaking the computer... Now you have someone marketing a motor with "Forged Racing Pistons" and people exchanging ECU's/comps looking for that trick combination. Playing the; "Devils Advocate": Based on all this theory; how will this limit the motor budgets and keep costs down as isn't this what happened in all the other classes? The beauty of this sport is how adaptive we are at consistantly looking for an edge, always tweaking... The downside is if hard limits aren't imposed this class will end up like most of the others... Example: History goes that someone in class 11 used race fuel because in Mexico pump gas wasn't good enough and though the rule stated pump gas it was allowed and that somehow ended up evolving into having to have a 11:1+ tweaker motor to even run competitively in that class (believe me the wifes 11 had a very good 9 pump gas 9 car motor and was very dialed and we'd watch lesser cars and IMO drivers go by due solely to the motor differences...). IMO one topic that needs to be universally governed to the same single standard by all of the sanctioning bodies; are limitations on the motors/systems. Just an idea: If they are inspected-certified then sealed with only "stock internal components" by 2-3 legit builders or???, fuel injection kept stock and ECU's/comps set to specific limited std's then locked, the class will flourish. If it's left open, it will be just like any other class and costs will escalate. TL and Protruck both have mandated motor programs and I can tell you our ECU was inspected and motor seal checked to make sure of compliance at the Glen Helen TL event and I was told the same happened at Primm and that levels the field and guarantees the stock Ecotech intent of these classes. Not to be a dick (can't hel myself...) but: Give an inch and "someone" will take a mile, guaranteed; and if there is little or no enforcement and the rules are grey IMO this is set up to fail. Not saying that TL is perfect but after racing in a number of classes over the years and watching the all the changes and the supposed evolution, one thing we looked for when getting into a new class was a level playing field and the theory of the "Ecotech" classes was supposed to be based on that premise...


I agree. As much as people complain about the SCORE class 2 rules, I feel like the class 2 rules really make sense as far as controlling the cost. You can't tell me that a car built to those rules would be less fun or less prep friendly. It really is a shame that class 3000 is ending up as a 65K to 80K initial car cost when in reality it could have been a 30K-45k cost.

[CRAIG_HALL]

A car only cost as much as you want it to..

Tig welded, big shocks,"race" quality shock,bypass shocks, 5 speeds, outboard hubs, super light weight microstubs, big expensive custom fuel cells, big GPS, full gauges, lots of switches, mil-spec wiring, HID lights, beadlocked wheels, Full body aluminum, Big power racks. The list goes on..

you want a reputable shop to build it ? One that you can go back to when you need replacement parts ? One that will be willing to support you at races ? Then expect to pay that builder for those services.
Otherwise build it in your garage and see how much you can save..

[ACME]

you want a reputable shop to build it ? One that you can go back to when you need replacement parts ? One that will be willing to support you at races ? Then expect to pay that builder for those services.
Otherwise build it in your garage and see how much you can save..

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.

[fullthrottle]

I couldn't have said it better Craig!:)

[fullthrottle]

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.

I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

Yes, my nine car was inexpensive to buy or build, however the swingaxle would come out after everyother race and would cost $500.00 to $900.00 and the VW race motor cost more than the entire Ecotec package from Turnkey and would not last. The spindles, ball joints, and arms all added up and I punished my body racing it. My 12 Car engine cost three times the amount of a Ecotec package and wouldn't last also.

The Ecotec 2.4L and Mendeola 2D have both proven itself this season with no issues except when I did something stupid to the 2D. These Class 3000 cars kick but and if you look at lap times we are not very far off times with all but the fastest 12's, 1600's, 5's, and many times 7200.:D

[fullthrottle]

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.


I can tell you that Full Potential's Class 3000 parts are great quality, for example their own hubs and suspension pieces and are priced right. Budget Class, YES, is racing affordable, NO! I understand you have to buy parts from Trophylite and this may be the reason you feel this is not a budget class, however if the Class 3000 builder chooses his parts carefully it would be hard for anyother class to be more economical than this one. IMHO

[DeanB]

I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

I hope this holds to be true. I have spent most of my hobby money gambling on this combination.

[ACME]

1) I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

2)Yes, my nine car was inexpensive to buy or build, however the swingaxle would come out after everyother race and would cost $500.00 to $900.00 and the VW race motor cost more than the entire Ecotec package from Turnkey and would not last. The spindles, ball joints, and arms all added up and I punished my body racing it.

3)My 12 Car engine cost three times the amount of a Ecotec package and wouldn't last also.



4) Budget Class, YES, is racing affordable, NO! I understand you have to buy parts from Trophylite and this may be the reason you feel this is not a budget class, however if the Class 3000 builder chooses his parts carefully it would be hard for anyother class to be more economical than this one. IMHO


In order:

1)I believe you on the 12 car but I find it difficult to believe that the 9 cost more per race.

2)Trans bills do cost in 9 but they are relative to how you drive the vehicle. The mendi is much stronger and should last longer however, a Class 9 motor's cost and maintnance should be equal to a $5500.00 Ecotech package from Turnkey and if you are spending money on a red or blue 9 motor is was a waste as there are a lot of hot motors that cost less than $5500.00 in class 9. As far as the parts: Costs are much less on a 9, especially if the set up is correctly. If you compare a new $15K 9 car to a new $40K car you theoretically can spend $25K on parts breakage beofre you change one thing on a $40K car but that's comparing apples and Potatoes... Your comment of the ride is relative: My 16's beat me up as much as my 9's, we were just going faster in the 16 and my 12 was the same despite the travel and I'm guessing both ran @ the same as the faster 3000's. My 10 was plusher but still beat the crap out of you if you drove it fast but then you were just behind 1 car times in it... The bottom line is if you're going fast, they all beat the crap out of you and the speed is relative to the cost. yes there is less edge and snap butif you're going fast they all suck. If you stack up a 12/10/3000 or 16 your repair bills will be in direct proportion to the cost of the vehicle and speed it's capable of. I realize everyone is different however, we've always prepped our: 9's, 11, 16's, 12, 10 and now the TL the same, no corners cut. We'd do the trans, magging, CV's axles, rack etc... the same if it was a local race vs the B1K but that's just us...

3)I hear you on that, our 10 was actually pretty inexpensive comparatively however, there were a few cars it just couldn't run with and budgets played a huge factor. I just couldn't justify a $25-40K motor program (we actually had @ $8-9K in ours)...

4)Budget class is a relative term. You can buy a $4K-9 car, cheap it out on the prep etc... and have a ball for next to nothing or you can IMO "do it right" and that costs more. It's the same in the Ecotech classes: But I wouldn't expect a vehicle with $15-20K in it in parts or to buy to be competitive with a cutting edge vehicle in the class and if you skimp on the prep and parts on a vehicle that is capable of the speeds these are I would suggest the budget will increase as will the potential for failure. Basically you get out of it the game what you put into it... and IMO a $40K (let's say)average price car with realistic $1500-2K prep/race bill is not really what I would consider within the parameters of a budget class. I know we ran pretty competitively in 9 & 11 for less and I would suggest there are a few sportman cars running for less than that.

As far as the TL comments go: We don't have to buy everything from TL, quite the opposite and I'm pleased with the vehicle and the costs after being a confirmed buggy dork since 1988. I don't think the package is competitive with a top shelf 3000 car but it shouldn't be for various reasons: AT vs manual trans, heavier, 2.2L sealed motor, pushes more air etc... however they will surprise you and we wouldn't shy away from racing the 3000's. I know we're pleased with our purchase, the prep is less costly IMO with a live axle/torque converted trans and I don't have CV grease on my shirts anymore: BONUS! I can also tell you the ride in the TL is much plusher than any buggy I've ridden in and the live axle learning curve has been fun and a challenge. Throw in the wife loves it and I'm a happy guy! Given all this I'd still say it's not a budget class. It is less costly then some and I'm guessing should be less than my 10 based on trans, R&P and axle/parts costs, but only time will tell. I just don't understand how; when the trans & suspension are the same, weights similar etc... and the only true difference is the motor, how can it be any cheaper and less work than a 10 (which IMO was easier/cheaper than 12). The labor and cost for; magging, trans, uniballs, tires, wear/tear, cv's, axles, shocks, etc... and the 140-160HP is @ the same. The only difference is the motor cost and fuel...

[mitch mathers]

Jeff, What was the best riding vehicle between the 12/10 or TROPHYLITE you think..
I like you have always had buggy's, but the one we used in the desert for years was just a JSC with a swing axle that was bulletproof and alot of fun...Like you said there is alot of difference in a front engine vehicle, and also a learning curve... Coming from Sprint Karts and the JSC buggy, I Have never been in a 12 or 10 car and just curious about the ride difference...Took a ride in a 16 not to long ago, and being 53 it seems like those could tear us older folks up..Sorry to get off track but saw your post about the different vehicles you've had....

[ACME]

All cars are set up different and we've never set a car up to be squishy soft, they were all set up to attack stuff and be driven hard. With that said our 10 & 12 were both identicle wb/width etc... Lothringer single seaters with the differences being the motor/trans/ft ends. The 12 handled like our 16's, more plush but not soft and rollie like some cars. The 10 had 22"+ ft/rr handled like it was on rails, no body roll and was plush but firm and fast. The TL hands down rides the best and ours is still on the 2.5's... It's no where near as fast but hitting things with the 2700-2800lb package vs our 1800lb 10 car or 1700ish 12, is much smoother and has a diffrerent feel due to the motor/seating location and the live axle. The TL is much more comfortable with less of an edge to the fits and rattles you less than a buggy IMO and my wife and buggy dork friend say it rides like a couch comparatively. But keep in mind the 10 car was very light and fast, and our 12 was set up like a 16 on roids. When we were thinking about the Ecotech classes our first call was to Lothringer and we considered building a buggy and Kent had an awesome plan. We opted for the TL and are way happy with it, despite being a buggy dork at heart and being maligned by my friends and at Lothringer but at 47 I wanted something different, fun and didn't want to go through another build, plus the price was right on the TL, and we liked the consistant rules of a spec class concept. Enough of this Mitch, no one want to hear about our crappy TL's, now back to your regularly schedule programming! PS testing went well and we seemingly cured a few issues we were dealing with that we were talking about. Give me a call and I'll clue you in.

[DeanB]

"Build it and they will come."

It appears our car will be legal in class 10 at BITD and class 4 at SCORE.

[JGOLDEN]

"Build it and they will come."

It appears our car will be legal in class 10 at BITD and class 4 at SCORE.

You are correct!!!!

Did you run into any issues retrofitting the Ecotec into your 12 car?
I heard they are 4" lower, is this true? Did it limit rear wheel travel?

[DeanB]

You are correct!!!!

Did you run into any issues retrofitting the Ecotec into your 12 car?
I heard they are 4" lower, is this true? Did it limit rear wheel travel?

I guess we got lucky then. The only problem we had was one of down tubes on the rear bumper hit a pulley. The oil pan is close to the skid plate but does not touch. The tranny position was fine, so wheel travel will be the same.

[Sparky]

I guess we got lucky then. The only problem we had was one of down tubes on the rear bumper hit a pulley. The oil pan is close to the skid plate but does not touch. The tranny position was fine, so wheel travel will be the same.

I'm worried about pulley clearance also. Could you do me a huge favor and measure from the face of the trans to the front of the crank pulley so I can get an idea of the overall space I need for stuffing one in?

[Fourstroker]

I'm worried about pulley clearance also. Could you do me a huge favor and measure from the face of the trans to the front of the crank pulley so I can get an idea of the overall space I need for stuffing one in?

Check the Class 10 vs Class 4 thread in the desert racing section. Fullthrottle listed out alot of the specs for the 2.4 motor.

[CRAIG_HALL]

I'm worried about pulley clearance also. Could you do me a huge favor and measure from the face of the trans to the front of the crank pulley so I can get an idea of the overall space I need for stuffing one in?

I measured kevin's car (fullthrottle) and it was 22" that was with a doublerow crank pulley (custom thing.)

[DeanB]

I'm worried about pulley clearance also. Could you do me a huge favor and measure from the face of the trans to the front of the crank pulley so I can get an idea of the overall space I need for stuffing one in?

How about this.

[xterra]

wow nice setup! I notice you run the ps pump on the bottom, I have mine in the head attached to the camshaft, any idea if this is a problem and if I can use that pump?

[DeanB]

wow nice setup! I notice you run the ps pump on the bottom, I have mine in the head attached to the camshaft, any idea if this is a problem and if I can use that pump?

No idea if it will be a problem. This is how is came from Turnkey. All we did was bolt it the tranny. What you see is how it came, plus it came with the gas pedal.

On a side note: The class 1 on our team uses a LS motor from Turnkey. During the Henderson race the car started overheating a little before the finish line. Turkey is fully taking care of them on the motor for no charge. How cool of them is that? Most places would tell you to go pound sand.

[craigincali]

a lot of sand guys run the stock PS pump off the cam (stack position). I just dont trust the plastic resivor....not sure what the pressure is on the stock unit.

[racer56]

wow nice setup! I notice you run the ps pump on the bottom, I have mine in the head attached to the camshaft, any idea if this is a problem and if I can use that pump?

It all depends on what steering rack you are going to use. The stock pump will not work with big racks that require high flow & pressure.

[Sparky]

How about this.

Thanks for those!!

Cool header. Is that a Turnkey unit?

[DeanB]

Thanks for those!!

Cool header. Is that a Turnkey unit?

Yes..

[diirk]

It all depends on what steering rack you are going to use. The stock pump will not work with big racks that require high flow & pressure.

I've got the stock pump on mine and it's running a hydro ram steering system, with no issues, but I'm also running 31" tires.

The plastic resevior is a little iffy, but you don't have to use it, it can be removed and a better resevoir fitted remotely.

The cam driven ps pump only came on some of the 2.2's. It doesn't work on a 2.4.

An option is one of the pumps from Revolution Racing Engines (http://www.revolutionracingengines.com/Welcome%20.html). Really nice unit that is driven off the water pump and requires less clearance then the stock belt driven one.

http://www.revolutionracingengines.com/Parts%20and%20Accessories_files/P7010013.jpg

[xterra]

It all depends on what steering rack you are going to use. The stock pump will not work with big racks that require high flow & pressure.

I did some research on the stock pump driven by the camshaft, and some guys here that repair pumps told me that this particular pump has a very weak shaft (the part inserts into the camshaft) and that they've seen lots of broken ones, a problem that does not happen with belt driven ones, so I would recommend for reliability not using them

[Revolution Racing]

Hey Guys - first time poster here. My name is Keith Iaia and I own REVOLUTION RACING ENGINES. I don't know much about desert racing, I've spent most of my life at sprint Car and Midget races. My company is currently producing the 2.4 ECOtec for use in a new sealed engine Midget class sanctioned by ASCS. Our version for Midget racing runs on methanol, it's basically stock internally but we do a fair amount to help it breath and lubricate right. It is an EFI engine running the MEFI5 controller. Our version gets 240HP/230 lbs torque.

Several off-road guys have contacted me and some have tried our stuff - we do make a very low clearance cast pan, and our billet oil remote has also been popular - it allows you to run a larger remote mount oil filter and also plumb an oil cooler.

Anyway, I'm very interested in learning more about what you guys do, and where my stuff might fit in. If any of you have questions feel free to call sometime.

Thanks,

Keith Iaia
Revolution Racing Engines
805-467-3424
http://www.revolutionracingengines.com
"The Revolution Starts NOW!"

[xterra]

Hey Guys - first time poster here. My name is Keith Iaia and I own REVOLUTION RACING ENGINES. I don't know much about desert racing, I've spent most of my life at sprint Car and Midget races. My company is currently producing the 2.4 ECOtec for use in a new sealed engine Midget class sanctioned by ASCS. Our version for Midget racing runs on methanol, it's basically stock internally but we do a fair amount to help it breath and lubricate right. It is an EFI engine running the MEFI5 controller. Our version gets 240HP/230 lbs torque.

Several off-road guys have contacted me and some have tried our stuff - we do make a very low clearance cast pan, and our billet oil remote has also been popular - it allows you to run a larger remote mount oil filter and also plumb an oil cooler.

Anyway, I'm very interested in learning more about what you guys do, and where my stuff might fit in. If any of you have questions feel free to call sometime.

Thanks,

Keith Iaia
Revolution Racing Engines
805-467-3424
http://www.revolutionracingengines.com
"The Revolution Starts NOW!"


Keith, I called you a couple of times and emailed you twice and never received the ps pump quote as you promised. I can't fit turnkey's adapter due to space, so the only option I have right now is run the stock one in the camshaft, I'll let you guys know if it works with my 2.5 tatum rack

Otto Gerhard

[diirk]

I did some research on the stock pump driven by the camshaft, and some guys here that repair pumps told me that this particular pump has a very weak shaft (the part inserts into the camshaft) and that they've seen lots of broken ones, a problem that does not happen with belt driven ones, so I would recommend for reliability not using them

That's the setup we're currently using and haven't had any problems yet....and it's driving our ram assist PS just fine.

With that said, if/when it fails, we're just planning to replace it. When I swap to a 2.4, I'll be switching to the RRE PS Pump pictured above.

[Revolution Racing]

Otto -

Sorry about that! It has been a little crazy around here. I just dropped the ball on this.

We are going through a major shop expansion right now and we have had some other stuff come up that has just made things a little hectic. anyway, I am emailing your quote right now.

Keith Iaia
RRE 805-467-3424

[xterra]

Otto -

Sorry about that! It has been a little crazy around here. I just dropped the ball on this.

We are going through a major shop expansion right now and we have had some other stuff come up that has just made things a little hectic. anyway, I am emailing your quote right now.

Keith Iaia
RRE 805-467-3424

thanks keith, quote received

[DeanB]

Here is a short video of it running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4hjqc9D8IU

[diirk]

Very nice and sounds good too!
Looks like you're running the stock PS Pump.....

[DeanB]

We have about 160 miles on the motor now and we love it. Very happy with our choice. We had no problems pulling the other class 10 motors in our class last weekend.

[DeanB]

Motor mount.