Dry sump info needed

[orvacian]

Man, it is hard to find good info about dry sump setups online. I am looking into doing this to my 7m-gte motor for my engine swap. There are some oil starvation issues with this model engine when used in racing conditions. Is there a cost effective way to do it? I know that the pickup is from the bottom of a shallow oil pan and the return is back into the top of the engine somewhere. Could it be through the the top center of the valve covers or does it have to be through multiple spots to oil the cams correctly? Mabye through the oil filter passages? What regulates the actual oil level inside the engine? I hear that a real dry sump setup has 4 or more gallons of oil in a huge remote tank, is that much oil really needed for a 3.0l straight 6? Any info is greatly appreciated but please don't turn this into a big debate, just the facts, thanks!

[ACID_RAIN28]

On my Dads 392 chrysler the dry sump is run from the oil pan. the pick up is in the side of the pan and the return is fed through the pan into the existing oilpump location, minus the pump. The sump pump is run off of the front of the motor. The tank holds 3 gallons of oil with I think 6-8 quarts in the motor. The oil pan has a lower profile than normal cause it doesn't need to hold the oil just pick it up.

[UndercoverFab]

you can`t just return the oil through the valve covers, your main bearings rod bearings and cam bearings are all pressure fed oil, you can run a simple external single stage pump up to a 6 stage pump, each stage has one scavenge port and one return port, if i were you i`d look into the wet sump system with a baffled pan or maybe just a simple external pump setup. if your hellbent on a dry sump system pm me anymore questions you have.

[hoeker]

dry sumps really aren't that dificult once you think of the system broken down by components. basically the pump is several pumps stacked together. the number of pumps is the stages, typically modern race engines have 3-5 suction stages and 1 preasure. with a drysump system you have almost no oil in the engine because you are pumping it out with 4 pumps, and back in with 1. this is why you need the large tank, you need to get rid of all the air that leaves the engine with the oil. even with a 5 gallon tank you're only running 10-12 quarts of oil.
peterson fluid systems has a great diagram here http://www.petersonfluidsys.com/diagram.html
the easiest way to accomplish your goals may be a single external wet sump like the first diagram. pump the oil out the drain plug and back in where the oil fitler used to be. this gives you lots better oil control than the internal pump at a fraction of the cost of a drysump.

i'd say don't do anything without an experienced engine builder looking at the oiling system of your new engine. good luck!

www.rosshoek.com (http://www.rosshoek.com)

[ntsqd]

I would say that you don't need more than a 3 stage pump unless you want more. Two stages to scavange the pan and one to scavange the head (drain-back ports are usually blocked to keep oil off the crank) and the turbo.

This page: 2.0L dry sump pan (http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/059.pdf) shows a simple yet effective dry sump oil pan design. It's a casting, but a similar aluminum or steel part can be fabricated if you can't find someone that already makes one. Try searching road racing vendors. Those racers use dry sumps when ever they can. Someone has to have made one for the 7M. Pick up a copy of Grassroots Motorsports and check their advertisers. Then check out all of the cool articles.....

[Timmah]

Hey Aaron,
I don't know if it will work for you, but somewhere in one of my roundy round or other racing catalogs I saw an oil accumulator. What it does is store addtl oil (a couple opf qts) and when oil press drops below a certain limit, it purges the pressurized oil into the oil passages. Once the pressure stabilizes, the oil is forced back into the accumulator for when it is needed again. There was also an available valve so that when you shut the engine down you could keep the oil in the accumulator which seemed attractive to me because you could prime the oil galleries with pressure before starting (wear prevention.

I know this isn't a dry sump system, but the one I saw was under $200.00 and it seemed like a good idea. Let me know if you are interested and I will see if I can find the info again.

[desertracer]

I think the thing that you are talking about is made by a company called Accusump(sp) that does exactly what you said. We almost put one in our car when we ran out 4 banger midget motor for the start up reason. Might be something to look into for your application.

[ntsqd]

Accusump (http://www.accusump.com/)

Moroso Accumulators (http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13600)

[orvacian]

Th accusump looks like it would be the best way to solve the problem. The electric valve is cool because it is hands free and automatic. I am sure the factory oil pump is sufficent when not in oil starved conditions. The accusump provides some oil for a short time if the pump pressure drops, hopefully long enough for the pump to regain pressure and then refill the accusump.

[hoeker]

it really depends on the oiling problem. accusumps look great for momentary losses in preasure from starvation, but is that your problem? factory 351 windsor engines have an oiling problem if you spin them too fast. an accusump won't help that.

good luck.

[tkr]

We had a problem on our little 4 cylinder rabbitt motor where it would lose oil pressure when the car was bouncing through the woops. We installed an accumulator with the electric valve and it helped very little. I think the problem was it never really had a chance to "catch back up'....to refill the bottle...before we started bouncing around again. So now you end up with an empty accumulator and 2 or 3 quarts of extra oil in the engine...not a good thing. We have a dry sump now and we never even think about oil pressure anymore.

[ntsqd]

If you go with the Accusump now and it works, you've saved at least 2 grand. If it doesn't work you've lost a couple hundred that you can probably make most of it back by selling the unit. Make sure that you pull your oil pressure reading from the as near to the pump as possible. If you tap in far away you may not see the small or short lived losses in pressure. If you know any Instrumentation Tech's, talk to them about temporarily datalogging the oil pressure. You may not catch that the oil pressure dropped in those 50 mph whoops, but a D/A system will. There is software & hardware available to do this with a Palm Pilot.