Class 5 only

[JRV 511]

Now what about this idea , no sealed engines , but a cc cap on water pumpers , like air cooled is unlimited and water cooled 4 cylinders have a 2.4 liter max , so without a turbo or super charger there is really no way to make huge hp numbers at least not anymore than a good type four

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[M and D MotorSports]

Now what about this idea , no sealed engines , but a cc cap on water pumpers , like air cooled is unlimited and water cooled 4 cylinders have a 2.4 liter max , so without a turbo or super charger there is really no way to make huge hp numbers at least not anymore than a good type four

Thats the best idea yet! Unlimited water cooled 2.4 max.

[wheezy]

Now what about this idea , no sealed engines , but a cc cap on water pumpers , like air cooled is unlimited and water cooled 4 cylinders have a 2.4 liter max , so without a turbo or super charger there is really no way to make huge hp numbers at least not anymore than a good type four

NOW YOUR TALKIN - I love this idea!

[frostbite36]

so without a turbo or super charger there is really no way to make huge hp numbers at least not anymore than a good type four

Not really true with some modern motors...variable/progressive valve-gear timing, computer controlled ignition and fuel injection are big HP/Torque makers! I still don't think there is a huge problem with the unlimited T-4 that will be solved with another unlimited motor of any make or displacement...it will be like the same problem encountered with class-10 before the sealed motor option...exotic motors were killing that class due to both costs and guys being frustrated at not being able to win against the big-money spenders, now look at it! Plus you are still loooking at $7-8 a gallon race fuel with that open set of rules. I hear a lot of the guys screaming about economic issues on this thread...

Jim, I think you might need to trade-in your internals on your T-4 for parts that can use more readily available bearings? Don't know how much displacement or potency will be lost...I'd need to do some research.

[wheezy]

Jim, I think you might need to trade-in your internals on your T-4 for parts that can use more readily available bearings? Don't know how much displacement or potency will be lost...I'd need to do some research.

BWAAHHAAAAHHHAAAA.... that's funny!

[bajabird]

So how many of you are ready to make your own class and start there..... Every organization will let you race it.....
Make your own class rules....... Let's see how many show up at the races.
Show how many of you are really vested in doing an eco type to your car. Club 5-E

Then you can invite the 5-U guys with their t-1's & t-4's to compete against you......
There, that was easy. Let's see how many you get.
Those that then want to convert can..... the purest that want to stay where they are...... stay.

[frostbite36]

BWAAHHAAAAHHHAAAA.... that's funny!

Love ya Wheezy...he does have a custom grind crank which adds cost...price we pay for extreme performance, I guess.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/s...me.php?cat=283

82mm counterweighted forged (non-welded) crankshaft paired with H beam 5.5 - 22 pin and 2" Chevy rod journal connecting rods, $929.95


http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/s...cat=261&page=1

We have just received a HUGE shipment of Mahle main bearings in assorted sizes! We even got a hold of some align bore bearings in STD & .010!

These are the original steel backed bearings. Quantities are limited so get yours today before they're all gone, again!




This appears to be a great resource of links for finding T-4 Parts...

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/links.htm

[wheezy]

I laugh because it's like saying. "Hey, now I know you spent however many years and however many thousands of dollars on research and development to BE KING OF THE HILL, but you should totally give that up and run another overpriced, going the way of the dodo, engine.... with less power"

I'm pretty sure some other classes become more appealing at that point, like class 10. I know 4 guys that OWN and used to race 5u cars that have now gone to C10. Coincidence?

I'm starting to think Tom is on to something as well. New class (even though I fear dilution) with unlimited 2.5L pumpers (yep, I snuck an extra .1 to include the 2013 eco) and ANY T1 or T4 (sorry, still no V6's) - While you may be right, some dbag will spend $60K on some crazy 10,000 RPM 4cyl engine, who cares. Let em, and when they throw a rod into orbit we can all laugh at them when we drive by a few minutes later with our $1,000 "junkyard" engines.

I still believe it should just be a baby step. You know, just get the tip in. Allow the eco and see what happens.

[frostbite36]

You know who we haven't heard from at all is Michelle or Vic Bruckman...they were unreal fast in 2010 and early 2011...with a T-4 in that siLver and purple framed Baja...

[ksmith]

How about a 2.5 Liter max. Just saw an article, the new 2.5 L ecotec is rated at 197HP and 191 TQ stock. Not that the 2.4L eco is going anywhere soon, but the 2.5L numbers are very close to a T1. How much more can you get from a tune, computer and exhaust. Has to be another 10 - 20 HP. http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/03/09...-makes-259-hp/

Personally I don't think the Ecotec is going to be discontinued anytime soon either. Some say what if GM drops the Ecotec? Then What? I say the Ecotec is the Small Block Chevy of our generation. I was at Bonneville salt flats during speed week back in 2004 or 2005 when GM went together with SO-Cal speed shop to test this motor. Their objective was to run the motor as hard as they could till it blew then put in another motor and do it again....for 6 straight days. They had 4 race cars, one fairly stock motor, one was supercharged and a couple turboed. It was so much fun to watch this whole operation. I talked to one of the engineers doing the tuning on one of the cars and he said he just kept adding boost and the motor kept taking it. Very strong motor with very extensive testing. Not to say it's bullet proof, but a very good choice in the 4 cylinder market.
http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature...hop/index.html

By the way I have enjoyed this thread and all the thoughts people have. Some people are asking who has water pumper 5 cars.? I have a 5U with an Ecotec like Zac. I have 1100 hard race miles on the setup and no problems so far. Being that I live a 1000 miles away from southern Cal or Vegas area I don't race down there very often. I stick to the Northern NV races so I don't really have a dog in the fight like you guys down in the South. I do however think a change needs to be made for the class to grow. I like the idea of a limited cc water pumper 2.4 or 2.5L against "open" air cooled. Two things drove me to the water cooled motor, Cost of rebuild/replacement and affordable FUEL INJECTION. I will never race a car without fuel injection again. It runs so sweet ALL of the time!
By the way my name is Kelly Smith and I race VORRA in Northern NV. In the past I have also raced BITD, MDR and MORE