Class 5 only

[rusco]

Baja Racing of Texas has been following this thread very closely and is proud to announce that we are taking the lead and have modified the Class 5 Unlimited engine rules to allow additional H2O options for a two (2) year trial period. This is obviously going to be a work in process and will be for several months to come as more and more Sanctioned bodies hopefully come on board. We will be happy to work with any sanctioned body and/or committee to fine tune these rules as we move forward and continue to grow the class.
As for now we have taken into consideration everyone’s comments and concerns, and have made the rules as follows:

Any manufacturer four cylinder water cooled engine providing:

1. It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5000 units or more and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
2. Engine displacement does not exceed 2500 cc.
3. Engine does not exceed 7500 RPM’s.
4. It does not have more than four (4) cylinders.
5. It is not a rotary piston engine.

These rules are for the 2013/2014 racing season but anyone meeting the engine criteria will be allowed to race the Chupacabra 300 on Oct 4th -7th at the Texana Ranch in Blackwell TX. We are in the process of updating the rules on our website and will have them up as soon as possible. In the meantime anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to send me a email at [email protected].

Thank you and looking forward to a great Class 5 turnout,

Duane McCreary
BRT Tech Director

Perhaps a bit premature, but congrats on putting something to paper. I hope that we can ALL discuss and fine tune at SNORE / MORE night race. I believe that there should be a footnote of approved engines and perhaps # of valves/cams and what mods can be done.

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[ksmith]

Perhaps a bit premature, but congrats on putting something to paper. I hope that we can ALL discuss and fine tune at SNORE / MORE night race. I believe that there should be a footnote of approved engines and perhaps # of valves/cams and what mods can be done.

I don't think it's premature. We've been hashing this idea around for the last 2 1/2 months. I too like the fact that BRT has taken initiative. 2 year trial is perfect let's see how it works. Their rules sound just fine to me. Simple and relatively easy to enforce

Unfortunately I don't think I'm going to make the night race, (Bonneville Speedweek in August is calling my name)but would love to hear what everyone has to say if there is a big group of 5 cars racing.

[frostbite36]

Been away mountain climbing for the last 4 days, so had to catch up on the thread...

Some questions & comments...

I applaud the Texas guys for being aggressive as movement forward, even at a slightly wrong angle, is better than no movement.

Question...how are you going to enforce an RPM limit?

I am also very interested to see if their effort really gets the 5U numbers up...waiting and watching. Obviously bigger sanctioning bodies have to consider very carfully any sweeping changes to the class rules as they affect folks wanting to race multiple series, as we want to be able to do.

Question...How does making another "unlimited" engine option (now just "open" H20) meet BOTH the economic and competitive (HP/Torque) questions that were at the heart of the whole engine discussion?

The worry about an "unlimited" variable timed/multi cam 4 cylinder engine smacking down the T-4 engines is well founded. We definately don't want to make the T-4 obsolete with any rules changes.

Question...Why is the idea of a sealed VW V6 distastful?

I understand the traditional 4 cylinder part of the 5U class, but there in no viable sealed 4 cylinder motor which will make enough HP/Torque to be "equally" competitive with a big T-4. A sealed motor option would be the most economic solution. There is little doubt of that.

Thanks guys for your input.

[jps1145]

I'm curious about how many other Texas 5 racers are on board with the rule change. I'm not a big fan (although I don't race BRT). I'm not as competative with my car compared to some of the others out here, and I don't think swapping a small water pumper for my small type 1 will make a difference. My opinion is that this will make little difference in car counts, especially here in Texas. As far as I know, the competative 5 guys always want to race with either the 10's or 12's anyway. What's the point?

[Matt Mead]

Don't take my word for it start calling some of the race engine builders and start researching it yourself as I have been doing . There are only two ways to make huge naturally aspirated power with 2.5 liters 1) huge compression 2) huge rpm's ,thats really it , big cam shafts , port and polish will only get you so far . As one of those guys that has been playing around in the motorsports industry my whole life, huge compression is a time bomb and will not survive in the desert, its really more of a drag race thing . So at 2.5 liters and a RPM cap I for one am not worried at all about someone coming out with a super crazy thing that will hand us our arss, it's really not possible . The second thing is this , As the Belk family and other long time five racers have stated you are only going to do so much at 105.5 " beam car

Yep! Think of the wheel base as a natural HP cap! Unless you are on a dry lake bed this horsepower arguing doesn't really matter. I think people who don't have much real experience with 5U don't understand this.

Baja Racing of Texas has been following this thread very closely and is proud to announce that we are taking the lead and have modified the Class 5 Unlimited engine rules to allow additional H2O options for a two (2) year trial period. This is obviously going to be a work in process and will be for several months to come as more and more Sanctioned bodies hopefully come on board. We will be happy to work with any sanctioned body and/or committee to fine tune these rules as we move forward and continue to grow the class.
As for now we have taken into consideration everyone’s comments and concerns, and have made the rules as follows:

Any manufacturer four cylinder water cooled engine providing:

1. It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5000 units or more and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
2. Engine displacement does not exceed 2500 cc.
3. Engine does not exceed 7500 RPM’s.
4. It does not have more than four (4) cylinders.
5. It is not a rotary piston engine.

These rules are for the 2013/2014 racing season but anyone meeting the engine criteria will be allowed to race the Chupacabra 300 on Oct 4th -7th at the Texana Ranch in Blackwell TX. We are in the process of updating the rules on our website and will have them up as soon as possible. In the meantime anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to send me a email at [email protected].

Thank you and looking forward to a great Class 5 turnout,

Duane McCreary
BRT Tech Director

Thanks for finally taking the initiative and making something official. Hopefully "MORE" can follow the lead and the other organizations too.

I don't think it's premature. We've been hashing this idea around for the last 2 1/2 months. I too like the fact that BRT has taken initiative. 2 year trial is perfect let's see how it works. Their rules sound just fine to me. Simple and relatively easy to enforce

2 1/2 months!? We started this argument like 5 years ago on class5coalition.com!

I applaud the Texas guys for being aggressive as movement forward, even at a slightly wrong angle, is better than no movement.

Question...how are you going to enforce an RPM limit?

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that it isn't too hard to keep a watch out for RPM limits. I'm an IT guy so I'm the type of person that would want to hook something up to the ignition and check myself, but I don't think that is even necessary. If you have enough 5 unlimited guys (pit crew, etc) standing on the side of the course and you hear a 5U car go by and the motor sounds like it is revving "slightly" higher than the rest of the field (read: screaming), it would be obvious, wouldn't it? More of a gentlemans rule, if you will. With the option to check scientifically, of course. Then again, there is nothing stopping somebody from running two RPM maps in the fuel injection so that when they get out on the course they just flip a nondescript switch to enable the higher RPM limit...

[QurtysLyn]

Baja Racing of Texas has been following this thread very closely and is proud to announce that we are taking the lead and have modified the Class 5 Unlimited engine rules to allow additional H2O options for a two (2) year trial period. This is obviously going to be a work in process and will be for several months to come as more and more Sanctioned bodies hopefully come on board. We will be happy to work with any sanctioned body and/or committee to fine tune these rules as we move forward and continue to grow the class.
As for now we have taken into consideration everyone’s comments and concerns, and have made the rules as follows:

Any manufacturer four cylinder water cooled engine providing:

1. It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5000 units or more and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
2. Engine displacement does not exceed 2500 cc.
3. Engine does not exceed 7500 RPM’s.
4. It does not have more than four (4) cylinders.
5. It is not a rotary piston engine.

These rules are for the 2013/2014 racing season but anyone meeting the engine criteria will be allowed to race the Chupacabra 300 on Oct 4th -7th at the Texana Ranch in Blackwell TX. We are in the process of updating the rules on our website and will have them up as soon as possible. In the meantime anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to send me a email at [email protected].

Thank you and looking forward to a great Class 5 turnout,

Duane McCreary
BRT Tech Director

I'll bring these rules up at the next BOR meeting, and get a discussion going if we have time. I see no reason why BOR wont participate though.

[Bro_Gill]

Ok, so next question- Does it have to have a VW body? Or will it now be just wheelbase and motor restrictions along with 12 car suspension? Or does that even matter? Trailing A-arms going to be legal? If, and this is a big IF, the rules are never going to enforced as written (like some of them aren't now), then why even have them? The Kellogg body should have never been allowed. I am still kinda on the fence about the trailing a-arms, but I think that we are all paying way too much for the arms everyone is buying. Call it market force or just plain old price terrorism, but I am looking at alternatives to the foddrill arm issue. Price does not seem inline with product, sorry if that offends anyone, just my opinion. Gonna finally dust off those side draft Mikunis for the Ford 2.3 motor...and I didn't really want to.

[steve0we]

Ok, so next question- Does it have to have a VW body? Or will it now be just wheelbase and motor restrictions along with 12 car suspension? Or does that even matter? Trailing A-arms going to be legal? If, and this is a big IF, the rules are never going to enforced as written (like some of them aren't now), then why even have them? The Kellogg body should have never been allowed. I am still kinda on the fence about the trailing a-arms, but I think that we are all paying way too much for the arms everyone is buying. Call it market force or just plain old price terrorism, but I am looking at alternatives to the foddrill arm issue. Price does not seem inline with product, sorry if that offends anyone, just my opinion. Gonna finally dust off those side draft Mikunis for the Ford 2.3 motor...and I didn't really want to.

I still havent had a problem with the Foddrill arms. We check for cracks, but they keep running strong. As for the body not being needed, that puts you in class 1, 10, or 3000. thats an easy answer.

[JRV 511]

Baja Racing of Texas has been following this thread very closely and is proud to announce that we are taking the lead and have modified the Class 5 Unlimited engine rules to allow additional H2O options for a two (2) year trial period. This is obviously going to be a work in process and will be for several months to come as more and more Sanctioned bodies hopefully come on board. We will be happy to work with any sanctioned body and/or committee to fine tune these rules as we move forward and continue to grow the class.
As for now we have taken into consideration everyone’s comments and concerns, and have made the rules as follows:

Any manufacturer four cylinder water cooled engine providing:

1. It is a design that has been series produced in quantities of 5000 units or more and is readily available to the general public in the U.S.A.
2. Engine displacement does not exceed 2500 cc.
3. Engine does not exceed 7500 RPM’s.
4. It does not have more than four (4) cylinders.
5. It is not a rotary piston engine.

These rules are for the 2013/2014 racing season but anyone meeting the engine criteria will be allowed to race the Chupacabra 300 on Oct 4th -7th at the Texana Ranch in Blackwell TX. We are in the process of updating the rules on our website and will have them up as soon as possible. In the meantime anyone with questions or concerns please feel free to send me a email at [email protected].

Thank you and looking forward to a great Class 5 turnout,

Duane McCreary
BRT Tech Director

Sounds Great to me !!!!!

[JRV 511]

Perhaps a bit premature, but congrats on putting something to paper. I hope that we can ALL discuss and fine tune at SNORE / MORE night race. I believe that there should be a footnote of approved engines and perhaps # of valves/cams and what mods can be done.

Not premature at all !!!
why in the heck do we want to keep limiting an unlimited class, If by some chance you make more hp than the type 4 , which I dont think you can, you will not beat the torque . If you want to play around with spec engines than race class ten