Class 5 only

[JRV 511]

Ever heard of the "Law of unintended consequences" - they are digging a big hole to push the class into.

Uhhhhh...........................well............. ..........I'm kinda thinking we are already in the big hole and trying to dig out !

but six in one hand and half a dozen in the other

[SPONSOR]

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[Fourstroker]

I don't have SCORE or BITD rules handy but I do believe they state something in regards to no center steer. The single seater thought had crossed my mind years ago.

Criswells car was a center up single seater at some point in time I believe. Steve G??

[frostbite36]

You guys are going to put so many rules in for the engine you can't call it 5-open or 5-unlimited any more. You'll have to call it 5/2500 or something like that. Also you guys think you're saving money---you're going to end up spending more than a Type IV by the time you're done with this thing. People will build it to the max. A race engine (even water cooled) will be very expensive. A sealed eco-tech is not expensive but we've already covered that---too little power....

Wendell, I so agree. Another open motor will do little to further class as a whole. The consequences are going to be the same building war that is already the case for any "unlimited" class and possible unenforceable rules (RPM limit?). This is why an "intake plate/restrictor" is a common method of enforcing power limits as other methods do not work from a tech stand point. If fear if we cannot come up with some sealed option, then the whole debate was for nothing from an economic stand point.

Has SCORE, SNORE, MORE or BITD made any official comments from a tech stand point? SNORE and MORE would need to approve to participate in "5U" at the Midnight race, so Bill Shapley is your man at SNORE...I don't know his stance on this at all. I know MORE and SNORE have traditionally gone with the rules set by SCORE. They normally don't go out on their own and change class rules, but adopt the big bodies' rules.

I can't wait until Lucern to see all these ECOTEC and Subaru cars that are coming out of the wood-work...to run in sportsman!

[JRV 511]

Wendell, I so agree. Another open motor will do little to further class as a whole. The consequences are going to be the same building war that is already the case for any "unlimited" class and possible unenforceable rules (RPM limit?). This is why an "intake plate/restrictor" is a common method of enforcing power limits as other methods do not work from a tech stand point. If fear if we cannot come up with some sealed option, then the whole debate was for nothing from an economic stand point.

Has SCORE, SNORE, MORE or BITD made any official comments from a tech stand point? SNORE and MORE would need to approve to participate in "5U" at the Midnight race, so Bill Shapley is your man at SNORE...I don't know his stance on this at all. I know MORE and SNORE have traditionally gone with the rules set by SCORE. They normally don't go out on their own and change class rules, but adopt the big bodies' rules.

I can't wait until Lucern to see all these ECOTEC and Subaru cars that are coming out of the wood-work...to run in sportsman!

Well you never know , I'll be running the type 4 until one of the sanctioning bodies allows something else , then thats where I will be racing the 5 car .
Question : Do you own a 5 unlimited ? because you're pretty verbal about how you want the rules to be set up

[frostbite36]

Question : Do you own a 5 unlimited ? because you're pretty verbal about how you want the rules to be set up

Jim, I thought you knew the deal with me and my team? We had raced 2009-2011 in 5U in SNORE (we did do one MORE race). We placed 2nd behind Steve Alexander for both 2011 & 2012. At the end of 2011 we wanted to build a more competitive 5U car, so we found a unfinished class-12 chasis, gutted our old 5 car for parts and started building. In the process, so we would not miss any of the 2012 season, we completed the car as a class-12 car (mainly financial reasons)...no need for hanging the fiberglass and we were short for time to make the first race of the season. Also attractive at that very moment in time was the new class-12 engine option, so the stars "aligned" to complete the project as-is for the 2012 season. We will complete this season in class-12 running for the year end SNORE points champonship.

The intention was, and still is, to complete the conversion of the car as a 5U and come back to the class for 2013. So we do have a dog in the fight. If the rules align time wise, we would intend to run the entire 2013 season in the 5U class...if not, I might wait and see how this plays out with the possibility of the engine rules change. During 2010-11 SNORE had OK attendance in 5U...not great of course. This year, with Steve Alexander departing SNORE and me departing the class, there have almost been zero entries in the class....the one exception was Battle at Primm, with one entry. This is a very sad turn of events for the class....

[Zac Reish]

Wendell, I so agree. Another open motor will do little to further class as a whole. The consequences are going to be the same building war that is already the case for any "unlimited" class and possible unenforceable rules (RPM limit?). This is why an "intake plate/restrictor" is a common method of enforcing power limits as other methods do not work from a tech stand point. If fear if we cannot come up with some sealed option, then the whole debate was for nothing from an economic stand point.

Has SCORE, SNORE, MORE or BITD made any official comments from a tech stand point? SNORE and MORE would need to approve to participate in "5U" at the Midnight race, so Bill Shapley is your man at SNORE...I don't know his stance on this at all. I know MORE and SNORE have traditionally gone with the rules set by SCORE. They normally don't go out on their own and change class rules, but adopt the big bodies' rules.

I can't wait until Lucern to see all these ECOTEC and Subaru cars that are coming out of the wood-work...to run in sportsman!

Come on weezy why are going to hold back now!

Frostbite.
1. You dont have a baja bug anymore.

2. You are complaining about a motor option that will run for 2 short years and thats it. If it flops then nothing has changed and were back to where we were which is right here scratching our heads.

3. Baja bugs are the most popular offroad car known to man yet they are the least popular choice for a race vehicle. Ithink thats because of the cost to run a well built type 4 hard.

4. Ironically you want the rule to allow a v6. Only you.

5. This rule change is not going to change things over night.

6. If vw v6's were legal would you be racing a 12 car converted 5 open in september?

Ramsey your post of unintended consequences is valid, However the point of a "Hell Mary" or A shot in the dark" should mean something to you on this subject. If the class was doing fine like 12, 16, 10 then why mess with it? Fact is it's not and it hasnt been for years and doing nothing isnt going to miraculously make that change. I appreciate that you post exactly what you feel but if you dont have a soution dont be a hater on an idea.

[Class5]

Criswells car was a center up single seater at some point in time I believe. Steve G??

They were not Center steer, Close! from what I remember they had a second seat next to the driver, but impossible to sit in!

[JRV 511]

Jim, I thought you knew the deal with me and my team? We had raced 2009-2011 in 5U in SNORE (we did do one MORE race). We placed 2nd behind Steve Alexander for both 2011 & 2012. At the end of 2011 we wanted to build a more competitive 5U car, so we found a unfinished class-12 chasis, gutted our old 5 car for parts and started building. In the process, so we would not miss any of the 2012 season, we completed the car as a class-12 car (mainly financial reasons)...no need for hanging the fiberglass and we were short for time to make the first race of the season. Also attractive at that very moment in time was the new class-12 engine option, so the stars "aligned" to complete the project as-is for the 2012 season. We will complete this season in class-12 running for the year end SNORE points champonship.

The intention was, and still is, to complete the conversion of the car as a 5U and come back to the class for 2013. So we do have a dog in the fight. If the rules align time wise, we would intend to run the entire 2013 season in the 5U class...if not, I might wait and see how this plays out with the possibility of the engine rules change. During 2010-11 SNORE had OK attendance in 5U...not great of course. This year, with Steve Alexander departing SNORE and me departing the class, there have almost been zero entries in the class....the one exception was Battle at Primm, with one entry. This is a very sad turn of events for the class....

Well in that case , I hope you build one soon .

I know we are pals on RDZ now , But if you don't have a dog in the fight than why would you be making such a huge stink about the engine rules . I mean I am willing to scrap the type 4 deal (that I have a ton of bucks into) put it on the shelf and build a new engine package for a two year trial run not knowing that the rules will stay in place but its worth it for the reliability and the cost of maintaining the type 4, way worth it !!!

[frostbite36]

Love Ya Zac....not a hater here, at all! My comments are intended to be constructive and thought provoking, that is all.

1. You dont have a baja bug anymore. TRUE, no secret, but I do have a concern for this class.

4. Ironically you want the rule to allow a v6. Only you. BTW, a sealed V6 only. I am over the V6 thing...I can see I am alone on this...the words V6 and class-5 will not be uttered from me in the near future. I had decided that some time ago.

5. This rule change is not going to change things over night. VERY TRUE! So far, I have not seen any major sanctioning body make any change at this time.

6. If vw v6's were legal would you be racing a 12 car converted 5 open in september?

My car would be ready for 2013 season...that is the goal as stated from long ago in the thread. We still may commit even with the rules as-is, but with the chaos in the class at the moment, the prudent man would wait for the dust to settle before commiting the team resources and finances to something which may change again the following season. I have been able to race a lot the last two years with careful planning and I hope any change in 5U would come about with the same amount of reflection.

[bajabird]

Jim, nice to have you out and about in 5 again.... I've not had the chance to race against you yet, but do look forward to it at the chili cook off... don't I hope to pass you with my 1600cc and end this. Would you of said a word if I had bought your car???? I don't think so, but... since your hear.... I am so happy to hear your opinions. They are real and good.

Wendell and Ramsey! You guys rock! nothing new, we all know it.

Wheezy, I was running the race when you were injured. My heartfelt sentiment to you. I am so happy that you want to be out on the course again....

What fun it is, what fun there will be with us all getting out on the courses and series whichever they be, having fun. Sr. Steve..... He is doing fun... get it, doing his part to race against himself and anyone who wants to pay to play, but he is getting help with his funds. Don't knock him. That is a dream come true, and his smiles proove it. Steve is living the racing life!



I'm not big on free time or.......... I would try to organize..... truthfully, organization will come with friendships and communication. Getting all concerned and every chance will reflect your truths. My cheers to those here who haven't said a word online but are reading.... They want more out there, but darn it..... let the rule live as they live now until a truthful majority agree on something in the grass roots which created the class to begin with.....

It is my joy as an owner/driver of a couple 5 cars to say this...... I look forward to getting to know my competition, as people, as friends as a group that cares about each other.

There aren't many that can group like the VW's can.... the beamer cars, the 1600's, the 5/16's and 5 opens.... wow the 5 opens.... Yah, woo hoo, the 5 opens..... I hear it when I photo races..... I think, wow, those are awesome!!!!!! Live on...... When I race... I wish I could hear through my earbuds and helmut.... knowing that I am making that noise, hanging on, shutting up and racing against my own ability.... same in the dosil 5/16, but at 50+ I still hang on, shut up, smack the co-dog and keep going... I think we all do that.


Back a page or two.... Those who have the opportunity to be in a car, to help are blessed with great friends. A group of VW people.

NOT ECO, NOT SUBARU.... there will always be options...... Take them, go 3000, go 10 or 12,,, just go...... then when you want,...... come back to 11, 5/16 or 5u whichever suits your budget, or to be with your friends in those classes.

Growth will come and shortages will happen... The classes have watered themselves down... Innovation with new arms is on, legal or not, innovation and growth is good "within the class". Keeping my opinion out for now. That's racing, that's development.

I saw the 5/16 coalition come and go, the 5 coalition come and go.... There are other options that some other group starting their click. Get off it please.... or go.... have fun, I wish the best. I don't know a better place than RDC to communicate with all... and all for all race reasons, and for free. Embrace this. Embrace what the class has been and is.

Blah blah, I hope, really hope as my desert friends remind me that it won't. That the fun of baja south races will work themselves north, with friends making the fun happen, not just the promoters....