Class 5 only

[JRV 511]

[QUOTE=tapeworm;1438247]I guess what I wrote did't really come across as what I had hoped. Maybe I don't need to race in this class as I don't have enough "talent" to drive a 5 car.

I'm not trying to discurage you , not at all . You were just coming off as if you Know how it is and a class 5 unlimited can never be considured a budget class in any way shape or form there are a ton of very experienced drivers in this class with some rediculously expensive cars , some well over $100,000.00 , so again don't take me the wrong way either , I hope you do build your car and come out and race with us, we all learned somewhere. My comment about the cost of racing one of these cars verses building one is spot on !! Same as a ten car except for the engine , It adds a whole bunch more !! Just had a conversation this morning with Eric 524 , he was one of the guys that was on the fence so to speak , NOT ANYMORE , Things change when you start looking at #1 the time spent screwing with the air cooled power plants #2 The file of your engine related bills throughout a season . On the conservative side add $1500 to $2000 a race to your budget . See the diffence between playing and racing is you don't back down , you try to watch the head temp and oil temp but more times than not you end up racing the car with the mentality that if she pops she pops and it will run between 5 and 6 thousand rpm's all day thru the big whoops and all . You are welcome to come co-ride with me anytime

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[JRV 511]

I have been quiet and watching the last few days. I am becoming convinced this engine rules conversation has done more damage, at this point, than good for 5U. Potential 5U racers, myself included, just don't know what to do powerplant wise with a new or refreshed 5U build. With all this engine option chaos, how can a team commit to a new effort in the class? The answer is they cannot.

I have talked to the important tech personality at SNORE. I did not offer my opinions (you guys all know I wanted a sealed VW VR6 to help contain costs). I was told that NO rules change was immediately forth-coming at SNORE for 5U by Bill Shapley. Simple. If this is the case, how will "we" combine the "5B-oddities" at the SNORE/MORE KC Highlights Midnight Race "everyone" wants in SEPT? BTW, I am excited to be able to see Jim V's 5U in September with my own eyes.

Keep plugging along guys, it might still turn out to be something positive...what's to be lost at this point?

Dont be discuraged , If you are a diehard VW guy stay with it or if you want to play with something else ,thats cool too, I have sent my dyno #'s out to several engine builders and they can in the ball park but can't beat it at 2500cc's , dont make it more than it is. most of us that are planning motor swaps will do it before next season anyway , The type four is staying in my car until we have something set in stone

[JRV 511]

I also just spoke with Bill Shapley again this morning at his shop. He did tell me that Bill Savage is also against any change in the class, at this time. That makes two big and long-standing organizers waiting and watching.

We know they don't want to change the class yet , thats why we are calling it 5b , we will race in another class unless everyone jumps on board with the idea , which is not going to happen anytime real soon

This leaves one open-ended question: What did Ron at MORE say about the Chili Cookoff/KC Midnight event and this allowance of open 2.5 liter water pumper class-5 cars?

No one , If we do get our class it will be for the start of next year . I'm racing the type 4

[JRV 511]

What if a reliable known engine builder offered a VW Water Cooled package that would perform with the sealed Ecotec, was already class legal, and did not need sealing, would that end the non-VW engine B.S.? Would you be interested?

I wouldn't , 1)nobody wants a sealed engine 2) no VW water pumper engine can even begin to compete with the type 4 in HP , I've been down that road

[JRV 511]

well Intel i see what this motor program has in it and has been put in writing and there is a legit vote on it .i will not cast my vote either way and will still expect the promoters to hold ground on the current rules .the rule change needs to be done in a professional manner not a INTERNET he said she said way .the last 20 pages of this thread has been nothing but stabs at each other so as far as im concered this thread is over .i wont race with a bunch of guys that are pissed at each other i may need your help to save my ass out there and need to count on you to stop .so il see most of you in sept at the cook off .

PM sent

[JRV 511]

good info wheez. Looks like a clean setup.

Ok guys, think about this. Is a mendeola, weddle or fortin a vw trans? Bodies arn't vw's, arms aren't vw. What all is vw? If a rule states any mfg vw style motor the interpretation could be subaru under the "any mfg" rule. Last i checked, most vw engines are 95% aftermarket and vw is not paying a dime to run their motors. Perhaps we should go to score / snore and have them ammend there rulebook for this allowance. I.e. Subaru ej25 boxer style engines are permitted if 2.5 l and max rpm 7500.

The basic issue is that vw has not manufactured these motors for 20-40 years. This is why we are looking into options.

go man go !!!!!

[rusco]

well Intel i see what this motor program has in it and has been put in writing and there is a legit vote on it .i will not cast my vote either way and will still expect the promoters to hold ground on the current rules .the rule change needs to be done in a professional manner not a INTERNET he said she said way .the last 20 pages of this thread has been nothing but stabs at each other so as far as im concered this thread is over .i wont race with a bunch of guys that are pissed at each other i may need your help to save my ass out there and need to count on you to stop .so il see most of you in sept at the cook off .

I agree with the part where you state " in a professional manner". However, here's something for you to think about: Promoters are looking out for there best interest. If they can have 500 cars in 100 classes and it's good for business, they'll let them run. As for rules, most are enforced by other entrants "protest", not the promoter or the tech director. I.E. the RPM 7200 truck at the MINT. Or, hypothetically, if I came in second to Kevin Carr at the Baja 500, I could protest his car for not having rear fenders "measuring no less than 6" at the top". Don't confuse promoter with the technical director.
To your point, yes, we need to approach this in a professional manner. We all agree we need change in order to breath life back into this class. Otherwise entries are going to continue to dwindle and the class will die. Look at the facts, there are only 3 guys running full series in our class. Why is this? The economy? As for using the RDZ thread as the medium, why not? Can you think of a better way? I think we are addressing this as well with wheez and mead getting the coalition going again.

[frostbite36]

Dont be discuraged , If you are a diehard VW guy stay with it or if you want to play with something else ,thats cool too, I have sent my dyno #'s out to several engine builders and they can in the ball park but can't beat it at 2500cc's , dont make it more than it is. most of us that are planning motor swaps will do it before next season anyway , The type four is staying in my car until we have something set in stone

You know I'm sticking with VW and buggies; at least my powerplant is "VW" and air-cooled in Class-12. When things become attractive again, I'll migrate back...shorten the wheel base, hang my fiberglass, and build a big engine again...hopefully it will be a VW of one sort or another.

What we will not do is do half a season in one class and then switch. I am seeing the writing on the wall for 2013 already, is all. We like doing the points chase thing too. Good news is my "new" motor is almost back together and I have a dyno-tune session scheduled for August 10th with Adam Wiks... All will be ready for for the Lucern race...unfortunately not as a Baja.

[JRV 511]

You know I'm sticking with VW and buggies; at least my powerplant is "VW" and air-cooled in Class-12. When things become attractive again, I'll migrate back...shorten the wheel base, hang my fiberglass, and build a big engine again...hopefully it will be a VW of one sort or another.

What we will not do is do half a season in one class and then switch. I am seeing the writing on the wall for 2013 already, is all. We like doing the points chase thing too. Good news is my "new" motor is almost back together and I have a dyno-tune session scheduled for August 10th with Adam Wiks... All will be ready for for the Lucern race...unfortunately not as a Baja.

Sounds good man !! Things will work out one way or another the old school five guys that want to stay that way have my respect , We have backed off and said we will run our own class and leave class 5 the way it is, which in alot of ways makes sence for the time being, we will go and see how the engine option deal works out , then you never know , if it doesn't I have boxes and boxes of type four parts to keep this one going long enough to sell it

[gwconst]

Nope. Not even a little.

I've been thinking about building a 5u car for a while now, but after following this thread I think I'll consider another class.
You people have been letting this idiot bully you into f'n up this class. He's raced 3 races, never finished one and now is dictating the future of this class, not to mention disrespecting someone like Ramsey. You need a new leader.