Vegas to Reno thread

[ProfessionalPitMan]

I'm all about the checkpoint times and shut them down if they can't keep the race. This is a race, not an adventure ride.

We were listening to UTV 1904 on the radio.. They sounded like they were having problems... They were passed by 7200's by pit 4. They were averaging under 10mph.. at that rate, they had about 42 hours left before they finished. They should have been pulled off the course by pit 3. By that point it was already unrealistic that they would be able to finish under the time limit.

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[D Bergstrom]

So since I am a quad guy who has been passed by cars/trucks, I will throw in my two cents. (That and I have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning!) First off, we have as much right to be out there as anyone else. I see alot of if you are off pace, quit. Fat chance on that one, I am a desert racer, my goal is to win, if I can't win, then I am going to finish. As long a I am making the minimum closing times, I am not quiting. What defines "off-pace"? One hour behind the leader, two hours, three hours? Is that behind teh leader of your class, or overall bike leader. I bet there were a few class winners that still were caught by cars. I know one thing, if I have two hours of downtime due to a mechanical issue, you are going to have a hard time pulling me off the course unless the pits are closing. I know BITD used to set pit closing times based on a 25 mph average, car, truck, bike, quad, didn't matter. Yes, pit closing times should be enforced (pretty sure BITD does), but all classes should have the same amount of time to finish. If the closing times are revised, or if a new rule is added that you get pulled off course if you are so far back from either the leader of your class or overall leader, I would expect that same rule to be applied to all, not just bikes/quads.

I have raced four Vegas to Reno's in the past, one in the quad amateur class, three in the quad expert class. First year was 2006, we were caught by the first car around, mile 330 or so. (That was the year it was almost 600 miles.) Yes, it was a little nerve racking, but I didn't really have an issue. I made sure to look over my shoulder often and when I did see a car coming, I got the heck out of the way and didn't get back on course untill the dust cleared. By the time we got caught, the cars were pretty spread out. My teammate and I were iding 60 mile sections or so, and we would only get passed by a couple of cars in each section. By some comments in this thread, I guess we should have been pulled since we were so far behind the OVERALL bike, but we still ened up third in the amateur class. Again I ask, what is considered "off-pace"? I just used my head and hoped all the cars that caught me also used theirs. By the time night fell, it was real easy then, I didn't even have to look over my shoulder anymore, just had to wait for lights. I never once felt unsafe.

Second year we blew the motor by mile 100, cars and trucks weren't even off the line yet. Third year, we had a decent run going, but I am sure we would have been caught by the first cars somewhere around Top Gun, even running the pace we were running. (I believe we were around 4th or 5th in the quad expert class before our downtime.) Downtime was exactly the problem, at around mile 350, we had a mecahnical issue out on the course, had to get parts taken in to us. We were down for about two hours. By the time we got going again, we were well into the cars. They were still pretty spread out though, I rode from Top Gun to the finish, didn't get passed at all before Weeks, but a handfull of cars got me in the last section, but by then, it was dark, so could see lights, didn't have an issue at all.

Last year we raced was 2009, raced over three days. Distance was short enough each day that cars were a non issue. Basically, I told the above stories just to show some of you guys were us handlebar guys are coming from. It is not just as easy to quit if you get caught. I wanted to race this year in the Quad Ironman class, but things just didn't work out for me and I couldn't. I know full well racing by myself, I would have been caught, but I know by using my head and the car guys using theirs, I would have been fine. Already planning on being there next year, hopefully it will work out for me.

I have seen some say race the bikes/quads on a different day, I just don't see that being feasable. All the course workers are volunteers, you really think it will work with them out there for two days? Sure, you can always increase the time between starts, but people will still get caught. Only let "experienced" riders race? How do you gain expereince for a race like Vegas to Reno? By racing Vegas to Reno! There really is nothing else like it. I would like to see GPS removed from cars, think that will help charging through the dust, but I know that will never happen.

I think the biggest help would be education. Maybe BITD can have a short meeting before/after the drivers meeting for all first time racers? Both 2 and 4 wheel guys. Maybe even all amateur class riders? (Shorten up the drivers meeting a little? Anyone who has attended one of these knows what I mean)This is a meeting I think ALL riders on the team should attend, of course that may be difficult to make happen. Drive it into the handlebar guys heads to get out of the way as soon as possible and the car guys to have give them time to move and have a little patience. I don't really know what the exact solution is, but I want the reason for me to not race Vegas to Reno is because of my own reasons, not because I am no longer allowed.

Doug

[GlamisGurlie]

I can see why the separate days wont always happen but doesn't BITD already have separate Bike/Quad races?? Why not just keep them racing those races. OR at LEAST put more of a gap between them and the TT's and then mandate stricter checkpoint times. If they do not make it to a checkpoint by a certain time then they are DONE at that CP when they do get there and they must wait to get picked up by crew. Thats a lot better then being dead. At what cost is it worth it to keep things the way they are?? Like I said put the UTV with the 1600 and those are good to go. They are fast enough to hold their own back in the pack now.

I personally keep a very close eye on those bike/quad/utv checkpoint closure times for this very reason. And I talk with the car/truck teams seeing where their guys are as the slower bikes, etc., are coming in. I go to each bike/quad team and let them know how far out the fast guys are and try to help them make a decision for their safety, as well as the safety for the guys coming. I also talk to the leader car/truck teams and let them know to let their guys know bikes or quads aren't that far out from my pit. But you know how it is when you're in "race mode" - you think you can beat them to the next pit, your bike/quad guy or you are fast enough to do it... "we had a problem, but we can make it up"... etc. I can say that in my personal experience, I've had many more teams than not stay and wait out the fast guys when it gets to that point in this race - and several who say it's not worth it - they are this far behind - to take that chance and call it a day. It's hard for us out there who are objective and looking at the times, and not in "race mode mindframe," to explain to these guys on bikes/quads that if they're this slow or far back and the fast guys are right around the corner, for the sake of all to wait or pack it in here. They don't see the big picture - they only see the moment, if that makes sense - they think they can out run the car/truck leaders. I've even had the conversation that they're done, put it on the trailer, the time limit is passed and they leave the pit anyway. Can't stop stupid LOL, but I do call it in and warn the next pit or C/T teams with me.

[DesertDoll]

I didn't mean to start a pissing match. I admire the kid and was proud to see him take on the challenge. If you look up his records, it appears that he has way more experience than most of the guys out there. He has WORCS championships and plenty of experience all the way back to 9 years old. Driver's license or not, I would have bet money on him. Im sorry that what we all hope doesn't happen, did. It appears that his father may have had #430, a 3 man ATV team, running behind him to keep tabs but that is completely my assumption. Desert racers with that much experience don't make that stupid of decisions and I trust that any parent willing to put their kid out there gave it a lot of thought and did a hell of a lot of planning to maximize his safety. I applaud his efforts. With his long distance desert experience, he is no more dangerous than any other bike out there running. If you dont help your kids set and challenge themselves in goals like this, what do you expect them to accomplish as adults?

As far as the racing dangers, send your issues to Casey. I agree that it sucks. I wish there was more time between the bikes and cars or alter.ate routes that could meet up at the same pits instead of running the same course. Turn it into a positive discussion of solutions rather than calling.g each others morons or acting like any accident is intentional. Come up with solutions.

#675 - you have the support of many desert racers and we hope you have a quick recovery and are back in the dirt soon. Rarely, does a single racers get the scream of support that you did in the drivers meeting. You can only reach the top when you set your goals high. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers, just as you were all race day. Speedy recovery and blessings!

[DesertDoll]

GG - he was hit by a utv, correct? Not a tt or 1500?

[D Bergstrom]

I can see why the separate days wont always happen but doesn't BITD already have separate Bike/Quad races?? Why not just keep them racing those races.

Not really seperate races anymore. There are only four races this year in BITD for quads, three of them are shared dates, Silver State, Vegas to Reno, Henderson. (Bikes have five races, they have an extra seperate race that is for them only.) We already get hosed at Henderson, we have to start way earlier and it only ends up being the Henderson 120 something for us. Don't really like it, but hey, we get to race, so I will take it. I would rather have seperate races, but I still want to participate in races like Vegas to Reno and Silver State, kind of hard to seperate those.

Doug

[GlamisGurlie]

I didn't work the race this year (first time in 8 years!), so I hadn't heard anything about it until this thread. From what I gather, it was a UTV - but I'm only going by what I have read here. I guess I really don't know haha!

[wheezy]

So... rumor that BJ got dq'd? Why????

[TrevorPiggott]

So... rumor that BJ got dq'd? Why????

Put in an unregistered driver at pit 4

[SF@DERTCO]

Just my opinion..

We caught a bike at about MM 160ish In a TT. If you're that far behind.. Come back next year. You started 4 hours ahead. "Finishing" isn't worth dieing over .. Also start the UTVs with 1600s !!! Just my 2 cents