As a Race Promoter how do you run your races?

[QurtysLyn]

How hard would it be to split bikes off onto a different track for a least part of the course? It seems it might not be too hard to find trails near the truck course that are bike accessible.

I have also wondered if a top level sporting organization/sanctioning body would be useful to the off road sport. The promoters should be promoters, and the sporting organization would be responsible for things like setting class rules, licensing, racing rules and meting out punishments for infractions. This sporting organization would also be the goto source for dealing with BLM and course approvals. Having a unified face when dealing with BLM may make things go smoother. They could also help with sourcing insurance coverages and getting the best deals. Promoters would still have their own series, but wouldn't have to deal with a number of techincal issues.

That would be nice. An overall organization that took care of the rules so they were all standard would be nice.

I would be happy with a standard fair set of rules from the BLM to follow. We've put on races in several different BLM districts and everyone has a different standard we have to follow. Heck, we still can't get a race back in Utah because the BLM can't make up their mind.

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[Zambo]

I don't know about separate tracks, seems like too much. But I think that for sportsman bikes/quads you could cut off a few of the loops and cut down the mileage and still have them start and finish at the same place as everyone else. Another option would be to send the sportsmen off at the same time as the first pros, but up ahead at pit 2 or 3. This'll let the lead bikes deal with a little bit of dust like the others.

[Nessy]

Standardized signals to show that you know you're caught are are looking to pull over. A standard arm signal for riders and maybe a switchable light for vehicles.

Real driver's meetings to go over real race stuff with drivers, not a big pep rally with a thousand people present. Hand out wristbands after the meeting. Close the doors at the beginning of the meeting and hand out penalties to late arrivals. Use videos to show the right way to do stuff (and the wrong way).

UTVs back with cars/trucks and a bigger gap between bikes and C/Ts. MUCH bigger. Pull straggling riders off the course in a reasonable timeframe.

Design courses where people can actually pass each other.

To me this is the right and fair solution especially races like VtoR.

[trentk]

I don't envy the promoters, they have a tough job, here is my two cents.

1. Start the Pro Bikes, then the Pro quads, then expert bikes then expert quads then amateurs etc. It is ridiculous that the pro quads have to fight their way through 50 expert motorcycles especially given that we pay the huge pro entry fee. We are faster than most of these experts and they hate to be passed by a quad so badly that many of them try to run. I understand passing a quad sucks but if a pro quad is off the pace it is because they had downtime in a pit so the expert bikes that are fast enough will make their passes in the pits 95% of the time. That is what happened to us last weekend. We were in the pits for an hour combined spread across several pits and we finished off the pro pace BUT we were passed on the course by a grand total of ONE VEHICLE ALL DAY. It was another pro quad who was coming up from the back after wrecking.

2. Start the trucks and buggies a minimum of 4 hours after the LAST handlebar competitor has left the line. Don't start them 3 hours after the FIRST bike has left the line, there is not enough gap.

3. DO NOT start the bikes/quads any sooner, we already start at the a$$ crack of dawn when there is ZERO wind making it very, very hard to see for the first 100 miles. Trucks and buggies are all setup for lights and it isn't a big issue for them if they have to finish in the dark. Running lights on a quad/bike is much more of a hassle and we already wake up at 4am, how early do you want us to get up?

4. Start the UTV's with the cars, in between whatever class their AVERAGE finish time dictates. If that is last then so be it. A UTV is not a bike or quad, they have a co driver, fresh air systems, nice radios, good lighting etc. They should race with the cars. It will be safer for them, safer for the trucks and buggies and easier on the bikes and quads who often times end up having to pass UTV's if we have any downtime in the pits.

That is all I can think of. Thanks.

[QurtysLyn]

We've had a few UTV's run similar times to Class 10s on one of our courses. I'd hate to see them start right behind the 10s based on their size, but most of them will out run the 9's if we start them at the back. We've had this discussion before with BOR, the UTV's are an interesting discussion.

[klaus]

Put in place the Sentinel system or something like it......

IRC has started development of a similar unit but unless a promoter makes it mandatory its not going anywhere. It also only works if 100% or racers uses it.

See IRC tracking units. Its voluntarily being used by bikes but nobody uses it until it is forced. Safety is always an afterthought. Firt money gets spend on go-fast parts.

[GunnSlinger]

Who is going to pay for the 'uniform recovery vehicles'?

Where there is a will there is a way... just have to get creative. I believe it could be done though.

[Weatherman]

I don't envy the promoters, they have a tough job, here is my two cents.

1. Start the Pro Bikes, then the Pro quads, then expert bikes then expert quads then amateurs etc. It is ridiculous that the pro quads have to fight their way through 50 expert motorcycles especially given that we pay the huge pro entry fee. We are faster than most of these experts and they hate to be passed by a quad so badly that many of them try to run. I understand passing a quad sucks but if a pro quad is off the pace it is because they had downtime in a pit so the expert bikes that are fast enough will make their passes in the pits 95% of the time. That is what happened to us last weekend. We were in the pits for an hour combined spread across several pits and we finished off the pro pace BUT we were passed on the course by a grand total of ONE VEHICLE ALL DAY. It was another pro quad who was coming up from the back after wrecking. There are other ideas in this thread that have a lot of merit and I will get more specific on a future post.

2. Start the trucks and buggies a minimum of 4 hours after the LAST handlebar competitor has left the line. Don't start them 3 hours after the FIRST bike has left the line, there is not enough gap.

3. DO NOT start the bikes/quads any sooner, we already start at the a$$ crack of dawn when there is ZERO wind making it very, very hard to see for the first 100 miles. Trucks and buggies are all setup for lights and it isn't a big issue for them if they have to finish in the dark. Running lights on a quad/bike is much more of a hassle and we already wake up at 4am, how early do you want us to get up?

4. Start the UTV's with the cars, in between whatever class their AVERAGE finish time dictates. If that is last then so be it. A UTV is not a bike or quad, they have a co driver, fresh air systems, nice radios, good lighting etc. They should race with the cars. It will be safer for them, safer for the trucks and buggies and easier on the bikes and quads who often times end up having to pass UTV's if we have any downtime in the pits.

That is all I can think of. Thanks.

Some very thought out impressions gleaned from the race he was entered in and I mostly agree! I think the UTV's, with their cages and lights should start with the other steering wheels, wherever their average speed dictates. At SCORE races, I would like to see the sportsmen handlebars start with the other sportsmen entries, based on speed, at the back of the pack. It's mostly the sportsmen bikes that are going to be the accident waiting to happen!

[chicken lips the ocho]

I don't envy the promoters, they have a tough job, here is my two cents.

1. Start the Pro Bikes, then the Pro quads, then expert bikes then expert quads then amateurs etc. It is ridiculous that the pro quads have to fight their way through 50 expert motorcycles especially given that we pay the huge pro entry fee. We are faster than most of these experts and they hate to be passed by a quad so badly that many of them try to run. I understand passing a quad sucks but if a pro quad is off the pace it is because they had downtime in a pit so the expert bikes that are fast enough will make their passes in the pits 95% of the time. That is what happened to us last weekend. We were in the pits for an hour combined spread across several pits and we finished off the pro pace BUT we were passed on the course by a grand total of ONE VEHICLE ALL DAY. It was another pro quad who was coming up from the back after wrecking.

2. Start the trucks and buggies a minimum of 4 hours after the LAST handlebar competitor has left the line. Don't start them 3 hours after the FIRST bike has left the line, there is not enough gap.

3. DO NOT start the bikes/quads any sooner, we already start at the a$$ crack of dawn when there is ZERO wind making it very, very hard to see for the first 100 miles. Trucks and buggies are all setup for lights and it isn't a big issue for them if they have to finish in the dark. Running lights on a quad/bike is much more of a hassle and we already wake up at 4am, how early do you want us to get up?

4. Start the UTV's with the cars, in between whatever class their AVERAGE finish time dictates. If that is last then so be it. A UTV is not a bike or quad, they have a co driver, fresh air systems, nice radios, good lighting etc. They should race with the cars. It will be safer for them, safer for the trucks and buggies and easier on the bikes and quads who often times end up having to pass UTV's if we have any downtime in the pits.

That is all I can think of. Thanks.

^^^Bingo^^^

Where there is a will there is a way... just have to get creative. I believe it could be done though.

That cost money and nobody is gonna pony up that money

[Weatherman]

Roger Norman, Myself and others participated in a 'safety solutions committee', after Roger's unfortunate accident with a handlebar in Baja. Roger spent days with the victem and fortunatly everything turned out allright, including Rogers quest to make racing safer. There was a lot of input, the most of which was a longer delay between handlebars and steering wheels. I was thinking at the time that it was the only real solution to avoiding the 'time bomb'. I have heard all the different opportunites to avoid the disaster, including; a different track, a differant starting place, a longer time lapse and some negative so called solutions that wouldn't fly. What I think is the best solution: Start the amature/sportsman entries with the sportsman vehicles at the back. The checkpoint closing times would be nearly the same. the volunteers would be volunteering the same amount of time and at least at SCORE Races. Finding a lost handlebar would be easier when they were running with the steering wheels that everyone keeps track of. I personnaly think it is safer for a handlebar to pass a steering wheel than visa versa.

This is a great thread! Keep the positive input positive. Solutions, solutions! That will be adhered to by all the promoters and that the BLM will respect