12-car Debate

[Prep by Jake]

Burgess is a kick ass driver and my partner but I unfortunatly have to disagree.

I don't care how many $60-$85k class 12 cars are built the formula is not a winning one, maybe someday you can prove it. The big trannys lightened are not up to the task and still have too much spinning weight. I also think the really light chassis will be the down fall of the new breed class 12 car, solid can perform.

Let me ask you this, why make such a light chassis and put such a big transmission in it? With inferior parts to what is available today old class one cars ran on bus boxes with 35 inch tires.

Plus the class was made for old unlimited cars and the new shinny class specific cars get no karma!

I will bet me/Bean and Pinkie against anyone in any 12 car any day, put your money where your mouth is.

Wow, didn't realize I was so fired up!

Hey buddy give me a break. My car has 228 miles on it and since it hasnt won its built wrong?
Pinkie could not keep a transmission in it before Folts gave you a questek. My reason for not going bus box is that if you dont have a questek you will not have very good luck with the tranny in a class 12. Questek is not in the offroad business so what if they decided they dont want to make them anymore what would you do? Go back to buying a ring and pinion every race and keeping your fingers crossed that it even makes it a race?
My chassis is not as light as you think it is and the Transmission is not as heavy as you think it is.It is 40 pounds heavier than a bus box but you get a 5th gear. Well at BAP I only had 4 gears but that will be fixed. I am pumped up over my car and the speed its going. I just need to work out 2 issues which one is my fault and the other one I have the best guys working on it and they will get to the bottom of it.
You will be eating your words by the end of the season.

Did Jake win primm 07, not a busbox and Tim N. the Championship !!!!

I know how much you love pinkie but has she really won that many races ????

I think more DNF than finishes not trying to fire up anyone just my thoughts

P.S. Just worry about S.F. I think your going to do really good there in the #16 TT buddy !!!!!!

Wow! I am blown away by this conversation and have spent a few days deciding what to say.

The finishing rate of drivers like James Golden, Potter/Worley, Stroud, Tim Noe, Vic Bruckmann, and myself prove you wrong Cameron!

All of us run big, stupid, inferior transmissions. Take a look at the true grit awards for finishing every race mile. 2005 had Watson, Golden, Belk, and myself. 2006 was Noe, Potter, Stroud, and Bruckmann - all running hideously big 5-speed gear boxes. I don't see Pinkie on this list?!? Yes, in the beginning you guys figured out the gear box issues, but having the 4-speed now is forcing you to drive Pinkie harder and is taking a toll on all of the other parts that just don't fail in other 12-cars.

This is not a forum that I would usually choose to comment, but I feel very strongly about the 12-car class. As a difference of opinion, I believe this class was mainly started for outdated 10-cars once the class evolved to a-arms and water-cooled engines. The old air-cooled, beam-front end 10-car got thrown to the side and developed the 12-car class, which I believe to be the "new 1600!" The 12-car class is very competitive, totally reliable, and feels like the good old days of racing fun.

It's a shame I don't have my car anymore to enter into this bet, but if Voyles steps up to enter the dealings, I would be happy to put my money where my mouth is.

JAKE

Apologies to Segal for the hijack! Here is a new thread.

[SPONSOR]

Membership in the largest desert racing community has its advantages - Participate in Forum Discussions - Send and Receive Private Messages - Maintain Public Photo Albums - Access to Groups - User Profile in our Social Network - Increased Access to more Sub Forums - Reduced Online Advertisements Join our community today

[harleys dad]

WOW, I think PAB just got punted threw the feild goal. I havent seen a thrashing like that in a long time. Jake and Clyde, I visulize WWE were the wrestler jumps off the roof onto the guy and lays him out cold. I cant stop laughin

[HDRA1]

our 12 car is so wrong we put the driver on the wrong side i need to put the cheeseburger down when i am putting the steering wheel in next time j/k

i really think it is time for the big trannies out there and it has been time there are exceptions to the rule out there but i will say this we needed a 5th gear this passed weekend. i love alot of the old ways and love the new things i think cars like cheaters, noe and jakes are the top of the line and the old beam 10 cars that were around are getting fewer and fewer so now the guys are building the new breed 12 car are going to take advantage of whats out there and not go with the old relible stuff and go with the best money can buy. i still pull for the old cars i mean i am a VW guy so yeah i pull for the bus box cars but that trans is 40 years old now and 40 year old slim out just like the parts

[Cheater]

I will lay off my buddy PAB for a little since he is out of town and can't defend himself.

[deleted.]

I think you guys are leaving an important factor out of the equation...The driver.

No matter what Class 12 car (provided it is set up somewhat decent) PAB, Burgess etc get into they are going to be fast and running up front. I won't dispute the fact that the PAB & Pinkie combo could take anyone on in a 50 mile dash, but battling at the end of the race is a different story.

This is what makes Class 12 so great, there's a slim area between holding back and going for it the entire day that usually determines the winner as opposed to the 1600 class you are purely going for it and the unlimited classes you are more concerned about trying to make your stuff live the entire day.

[JGunn]

A solid co-driver can be a huge benefit when doing battle...

I think you guys are leaving an important factor out of the equation...The driver.

No matter what Class 12 car (provided it is set up somewhat decent) PAB, Burgess etc get into they are going to be fast and running up front. I won't dispute the fact that the PAB & Pinkie combo could take anyone on in a 50 mile dash, but battling at the end of the race is a different story.

This is what makes Class 12 so great, there's a slim area between holding back and going for it the entire day that usually determines the winner as opposed to the 1600 class you are purely going for it and the unlimited classes you are more concerned about trying to make your stuff live the entire day.

[13stout]

A solid co-driver can be a huge benefit when doing battle...

I think JGunn is looking for a co-dog, nav ride.... I have to say he's on it and never gives up........

[Perfect Race]

I have an updated old Chenowth that is very competitive where I have been racing at MORE. I got tired of the Bus box after breaking it a few times. I am much happier and faster with the 5 speed and confident it won't break. I rebuild it every two races and there is never anything wrong. I never have to worry about pedaling the car like the Bus box days. Now I have to find some money for an 1835 or downsize my two liter now that all you guys are racing BITD.

[Renegade Racing]

I have to say, the bus tranny caused numerous DNF's. I went to the hi dollar tranny and we do not have tranny problems anymore.

I also do not worry about ring and pinion inventory, either.

I am all for hi dollar trannies.

my 2 cents.

[RBrown]

I am a class 1 guy so I have no vested interest in this class other than curosity.

Has there been any discussions as to a minimum weight and/or increasing the motor size??? It was my understanding that this class was created to have a place to run the older class 1 cars where they could be competitive. It sounds like it's getting too close to class 10, (light weight chassis and high strung motors.) I suspect the old class 1 cars will continue to get less competitive in this class.

What about increasing the engine size to 3-3.5L and allowing water cooled V-6's. The big trannies can handle it. Racers would have the flexability to choose smaller lighter cars with high strung little motors, or bigger cars with V-6's. There are alot of production all aluminum V-6 motors that would be reasonablly priced and easy to find.

It would sure make those cars fun to drive (I am sure they are fun now, but who doesnt like more power) I suspect they would also be mixing it up with the 10's and 1's more than they already are. As a class 1 guy, I would certainly welcome it.

Just a thought.................