4130 filler rod...who uses what?

[flatiron]

I am curious as to what type of filler rod everyone is using to GTAW 4130? Lincoln recommends using ER80S-d2 for anything under .120", Jason Campbell(Camburg) is using "super missileweld"(supposedly), which from what i can tell is for welding dissimilar metals.
The obvious choice would be a chromoly rod I would think! So what does everyone use???!

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[Brian Mapes]

Actually in most cases you do not want to use 4130 welding rod when you are welding on 4130 base mat. Normally you would use either ER70s-2 Or what you mentioned ER80s-d2. The 70 and 80 stands for the tensile strength in thousands. Both are a mild steel rod but work well on 4130. Another option that I like to use quite a bit is 312 stainless, basically a high nickel content rod. Some call it supermissle weld, or there is Eutectic 680 i believe which is pretty much all the same. The 312 I use is 120,000 psi tensile, but another advantage to the stainless rod is that it welds much nicer that the mild steel rods because for one it doesnt tend to magnetize and stick to the base metal, and two being stainless the puddle flows nicer because the heat does not dissipate well and stays at the puddle, it does not get sucked out. And the last being rust resistance with the stainless, normally when using 312 your weld will tend not to rust, however the rest of the parent material will. Any more questions.

[flatiron]

so are you choosing the different fillers depending on the piece be welded? If heat treating is to be done how does it affect filler choice? Thanks, that was alot of help. Ive been using the ER80S-d2, but i might have to try the 312.

[FUMMER]

From MillerWelds.com
For Reference

Q. The other day a friend and I had a conversation about TIG welding mild steels and what filler rod to use. At times porosity occurs during welding and the first thing him & I do is grab a piece of stainless steel filler rod instead of the mild steel filler rod (ER70S3). The weld looks a lot better but is it as strong as if we used the mild steel filler rod? Also can you use S.S. filler on 4130 Chrome-moly? What grades of S.S. are stronger and do you know the tensile strengths of the different grades of S.S. filler rod when welding on mild steels? My friend and I are IHRA Drag Racers and both fabricate and weld a lot of 4130 C.M. (Submitted by: Jim Dadas from Vermilion Ohio)



A. When you move to a SS filler, it does look nicer, but the welded area is too strong and in the wrong application, gets brittle along the weld and could crack. The reason is because the SS is much harder than the base metal. The correct filler would have similar strength and elongation characteristics. The ER70S-3 or an ER80S-D2 is great for mild steel. You could use a 312 SS filler for your 4130 if you had to. I prefer the ER70S-2 or ER80S-D2 for roll cage applications because of their ability to flex better under a crash yet have great strength too. You might try a TigTectic 680 rod. It has some great coloring that the SS filler has and boasts better elongation percentages too. You might try and weld a few pieces with different fillers and do a bend test. All of the described fillers have adequate tensile strength but really need to be matched to the application as far as elongation or weld bead ductility. For example, you will want your cages to be strong and flexible in case of impact, but you could weld the rear end brackets or spindles with the higher tensile strength fillers.

[Chase 2]

+1 on the 312 stainless, I like the way it welds.

[Bigger Valves]

ER70s-2. Overall considering all parameters and characteristics inherent to the building of as-welded 4130 structures such as cages it is the best option. I don't feel like typing it all out as I've probably done it over a hundred times on different forums. ER80s-d2 I've used as well with good results. The problem is these other fillers not handled properly create problems ER70s-2 would not.

70 and 80 is MINIMUM tensile strength in thousands of psi that the filler must possess in order to gain the given classification. ER70s-2 normally has a tensile strength over 80,000 psi. Consider that and proper welding methods that create the proper sized weld and you can obviously see the filler is not the weak point. So why use ER80s-d2 and 312 and others when they are more sensitive to contamination, cooling rates, dilution, backside oxidation, etc.??? If you don't have a fundamental or metallurgically correct factual reason to choose something other than ER70s-2, then don't.

If you're fabbing a heat treated part, then the methodology is a bit different.

The best, closest to perfect 4130 welding article on the internet. http://www.netwelding.com/Welding%204130.htm

[Brian Mapes]

So far everyone has put some good input on this subject, however filler metal selection should always be determined by the requirements of the job. There is no " do all " rod. In the course of the next week I will weld up a few coupons with 70s2 and 312 for a comparison. Like was previously a 70s2 filler has to have a minimum of 70 thousand psi tensile, but will most likely have more. Someone earlier mentioned using 70s3 or 70s6 for tiggin, I would suggest not using those unless plans call them out, reason being s3 and espically s6 will work better on dirtier metal, that is why it is used so commonly for MIG. When TIG welding you should always have the cleanest metal possible. I would recomend getting some rod of each type and weld some practice stuff up and see which rod you prefrer. Go to your local welding supply and have them order the kind you want from washington alloy in a 1lb mini pack, because normally for specialty types like 312 you would have to buy 10 lbs. I work at Airgas and you can contact me and I can get you whatever rod you need for a pretty good price. There is a million articles online about 4130 and it seems that everyone of them has a different answer.

[loufish]

We use a lot of 312 SS, also ER70s-2. We have also purchased some "Super missle" welding rod, it is supposed to be about 120K and about 30% elongation to reduce brittilness. Does anybody know what the elongation is on 312 SS?

I used to use a Cronatron 333 rod at my last job, it came in TIG, MIG and stick. I used to do a lot of industrial type repairs which means stick weliding....That 333 layed down so smooth and was for dissimalar metals, so it welded just about anything. That was about 7 yrs ago and that rod was costing about $42 a lb...

BTW The Cronatron 333 we used was good for heat treating up to 40Rc

[Brian Mapes]

I just looked in some of my filler metal books and it says 312 stainless has 20% elongation.

[baja stu]

So is this "Super Missile Rod" ER309L or 312-16