I got my 2.4 Ecotec from Turnkey

[ACME]

you want a reputable shop to build it ? One that you can go back to when you need replacement parts ? One that will be willing to support you at races ? Then expect to pay that builder for those services.
Otherwise build it in your garage and see how much you can save..

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.

[SPONSOR]

Membership in the largest desert racing community has its advantages - Participate in Forum Discussions - Send and Receive Private Messages - Maintain Public Photo Albums - Access to Groups - User Profile in our Social Network - Increased Access to more Sub Forums - Reduced Online Advertisements Join our community today

[fullthrottle]

I couldn't have said it better Craig!

[fullthrottle]

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.

I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

Yes, my nine car was inexpensive to buy or build, however the swingaxle would come out after everyother race and would cost $500.00 to $900.00 and the VW race motor cost more than the entire Ecotec package from Turnkey and would not last. The spindles, ball joints, and arms all added up and I punished my body racing it. My 12 Car engine cost three times the amount of a Ecotec package and wouldn't last also.

The Ecotec 2.4L and Mendeola 2D have both proven itself this season with no issues except when I did something stupid to the 2D. These Class 3000 cars kick but and if you look at lap times we are not very far off times with all but the fastest 12's, 1600's, 5's, and many times 7200.

[fullthrottle]

Words to live by. That's why everytime I see a post for some new B.A., baller team with a cool name and an iron cross in their logo that's having a vehicle built by some no-name, no history shop and then watch all the desktop racers immediatley tout it as the next big thing, I laugh. How many of those B.A. cars have had any success or are even racing today? But, they made quite the splash, virtually speaking... If your racing on a budget, you should consider a budget class and I can tell you based on the cost of the parts and speed that these Ecotech cars are capable of, it is not a budget class.

I can tell you that Full Potential's Class 3000 parts are great quality, for example their own hubs and suspension pieces and are priced right. Budget Class, YES, is racing affordable, NO! I understand you have to buy parts from Trophylite and this may be the reason you feel this is not a budget class, however if the Class 3000 builder chooses his parts carefully it would be hard for anyother class to be more economical than this one. IMHO

[DeanB]

I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

I hope this holds to be true. I have spent most of my hobby money gambling on this combination.

[ACME]

1) I disagree, I have run Class 3000 for a year now and have found that is by far more economical than Class 9 or Class 12, which I have raced in the past.

2)Yes, my nine car was inexpensive to buy or build, however the swingaxle would come out after everyother race and would cost $500.00 to $900.00 and the VW race motor cost more than the entire Ecotec package from Turnkey and would not last. The spindles, ball joints, and arms all added up and I punished my body racing it.

3)My 12 Car engine cost three times the amount of a Ecotec package and wouldn't last also.

4) Budget Class, YES, is racing affordable, NO! I understand you have to buy parts from Trophylite and this may be the reason you feel this is not a budget class, however if the Class 3000 builder chooses his parts carefully it would be hard for anyother class to be more economical than this one. IMHO

In order:

1)I believe you on the 12 car but I find it difficult to believe that the 9 cost more per race.

2)Trans bills do cost in 9 but they are relative to how you drive the vehicle. The mendi is much stronger and should last longer however, a Class 9 motor's cost and maintnance should be equal to a $5500.00 Ecotech package from Turnkey and if you are spending money on a red or blue 9 motor is was a waste as there are a lot of hot motors that cost less than $5500.00 in class 9. As far as the parts: Costs are much less on a 9, especially if the set up is correctly. If you compare a new $15K 9 car to a new $40K car you theoretically can spend $25K on parts breakage beofre you change one thing on a $40K car but that's comparing apples and Potatoes... Your comment of the ride is relative: My 16's beat me up as much as my 9's, we were just going faster in the 16 and my 12 was the same despite the travel and I'm guessing both ran @ the same as the faster 3000's. My 10 was plusher but still beat the crap out of you if you drove it fast but then you were just behind 1 car times in it... The bottom line is if you're going fast, they all beat the crap out of you and the speed is relative to the cost. yes there is less edge and snap butif you're going fast they all suck. If you stack up a 12/10/3000 or 16 your repair bills will be in direct proportion to the cost of the vehicle and speed it's capable of. I realize everyone is different however, we've always prepped our: 9's, 11, 16's, 12, 10 and now the TL the same, no corners cut. We'd do the trans, magging, CV's axles, rack etc... the same if it was a local race vs the B1K but that's just us...

3)I hear you on that, our 10 was actually pretty inexpensive comparatively however, there were a few cars it just couldn't run with and budgets played a huge factor. I just couldn't justify a $25-40K motor program (we actually had @ $8-9K in ours)...

4)Budget class is a relative term. You can buy a $4K-9 car, cheap it out on the prep etc... and have a ball for next to nothing or you can IMO "do it right" and that costs more. It's the same in the Ecotech classes: But I wouldn't expect a vehicle with $15-20K in it in parts or to buy to be competitive with a cutting edge vehicle in the class and if you skimp on the prep and parts on a vehicle that is capable of the speeds these are I would suggest the budget will increase as will the potential for failure. Basically you get out of it the game what you put into it... and IMO a $40K (let's say)average price car with realistic $1500-2K prep/race bill is not really what I would consider within the parameters of a budget class. I know we ran pretty competitively in 9 & 11 for less and I would suggest there are a few sportman cars running for less than that.

As far as the TL comments go: We don't have to buy everything from TL, quite the opposite and I'm pleased with the vehicle and the costs after being a confirmed buggy dork since 1988. I don't think the package is competitive with a top shelf 3000 car but it shouldn't be for various reasons: AT vs manual trans, heavier, 2.2L sealed motor, pushes more air etc... however they will surprise you and we wouldn't shy away from racing the 3000's. I know we're pleased with our purchase, the prep is less costly IMO with a live axle/torque converted trans and I don't have CV grease on my shirts anymore: BONUS! I can also tell you the ride in the TL is much plusher than any buggy I've ridden in and the live axle learning curve has been fun and a challenge. Throw in the wife loves it and I'm a happy guy! Given all this I'd still say it's not a budget class. It is less costly then some and I'm guessing should be less than my 10 based on trans, R&P and axle/parts costs, but only time will tell. I just don't understand how; when the trans & suspension are the same, weights similar etc... and the only true difference is the motor, how can it be any cheaper and less work than a 10 (which IMO was easier/cheaper than 12). The labor and cost for; magging, trans, uniballs, tires, wear/tear, cv's, axles, shocks, etc... and the 140-160HP is @ the same. The only difference is the motor cost and fuel...

[mitch mathers]

Jeff, What was the best riding vehicle between the 12/10 or TROPHYLITE you think..
I like you have always had buggy's, but the one we used in the desert for years was just a JSC with a swing axle that was bulletproof and alot of fun...Like you said there is alot of difference in a front engine vehicle, and also a learning curve... Coming from Sprint Karts and the JSC buggy, I Have never been in a 12 or 10 car and just curious about the ride difference...Took a ride in a 16 not to long ago, and being 53 it seems like those could tear us older folks up..Sorry to get off track but saw your post about the different vehicles you've had....

[ACME]

All cars are set up different and we've never set a car up to be squishy soft, they were all set up to attack stuff and be driven hard. With that said our 10 & 12 were both identicle wb/width etc... Lothringer single seaters with the differences being the motor/trans/ft ends. The 12 handled like our 16's, more plush but not soft and rollie like some cars. The 10 had 22"+ ft/rr handled like it was on rails, no body roll and was plush but firm and fast. The TL hands down rides the best and ours is still on the 2.5's... It's no where near as fast but hitting things with the 2700-2800lb package vs our 1800lb 10 car or 1700ish 12, is much smoother and has a diffrerent feel due to the motor/seating location and the live axle. The TL is much more comfortable with less of an edge to the fits and rattles you less than a buggy IMO and my wife and buggy dork friend say it rides like a couch comparatively. But keep in mind the 10 car was very light and fast, and our 12 was set up like a 16 on roids. When we were thinking about the Ecotech classes our first call was to Lothringer and we considered building a buggy and Kent had an awesome plan. We opted for the TL and are way happy with it, despite being a buggy dork at heart and being maligned by my friends and at Lothringer but at 47 I wanted something different, fun and didn't want to go through another build, plus the price was right on the TL, and we liked the consistant rules of a spec class concept. Enough of this Mitch, no one want to hear about our crappy TL's, now back to your regularly schedule programming! PS testing went well and we seemingly cured a few issues we were dealing with that we were talking about. Give me a call and I'll clue you in.

[DeanB]

"Build it and they will come."

It appears our car will be legal in class 10 at BITD and class 4 at SCORE.

[JGOLDEN]

"Build it and they will come."

It appears our car will be legal in class 10 at BITD and class 4 at SCORE.

You are correct!!!!

Did you run into any issues retrofitting the Ecotec into your 12 car?
I heard they are 4" lower, is this true? Did it limit rear wheel travel?