Tips for vertical MIG welding. . ."stack of dimes" style.

[atomicjoe23]

Anyone have any good tips on how to get good dime sized puddles formed without gravity pulling them down before they solidify?

I welded up some new spring and shackle perches on our '49 Jeep Willy's frame yesterday and I knew from welding school that welding vertical was going to be different (we didn't do vertical MIG welding at schoo. . .MIG was the only process we didn't do vertical in, maybe for good reason, but we did vertical OFW, SMAW, and TIG).

I figured out on the first vertical run that I would have to speed up quite a bit compared to my flat welds, but once I sped up I started to lose the definition of my puddles.

I have seen vertical MIG welds on this forum that look exactly the same all the way around so I know that it can be done (unless all of these welds are done on a bench where the part can be moved around and then put on the frame) and probably is more about practice and experimenting until I get the feel down just right, but I thought some of you might have a tip or two to help me out.

The welds are strong, have good penetration, functional, and they are neat, but they do not look the same as my other welds and I would like for all of my welds to look exactly the same.

Thanks!

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[BajaFand]

A vertical weld is much easier to make look good than a horizontal flat position weld. ALWAYS go downhill with gravity. For me, I don't have to do as much movement, just drop down a little and gravity brings the puddle of the previous dime to you, so you don't have to overlap very much. Once you get good at it you will wonder why you can't make your flat position welds look as nice, hehe. The good thing about welding vertical down is that it does penetrate better than horizontal flat.

[Wild bill]

I agree on the down hill idea with MIG. I do the uphill with TIG so that the lower puddle causes a shelf for the new puddle to rest on.

[atomicjoe23]

I always always taught vertical up. . .creating a shelf just like Wild Bill mentioned, that was for TIG, OFW, and SMAW.

I'll have to give the downhill a try for the MIG process.

[BajaFand]

Yes, you can TIG weld vertical up, but I've still been told it's better to go with gravity whenever possible. With SMAW I know it depends on the rod you use on whether you weld uphill or down. But with MIG you always need to weld down.

[blueeyeddevil]

I was always taught vertical = UP. When you weld down you trap all of the contaminates in the weld, plus you can go a little too fast and not burn in like you should. Granted welding down always produces nice welds.
Loosely speaking, If its too good to be true... If its too easy to stack'em...
Chances are it would hold up to everything but, a UT or an inspector.

[matt_helton]

yeah listen to fandy. top down is how i roll too. top to bottom is very easy to control. imo

here is some of my top to bottom sicknes. ha

[foley]

By the book all vertical welds should be up... TIG, MIG, Stick, not sure about gas, but you get the point.

To get better appearance welding up I find myself needing to do a better job notching the parts to there is more space for parent material to be replaced with weld material. I also find it works better to run a slower wire speed than I typically would when MIG welding flat.



All that being said, if you've got enough machine to get adequate penetration welding vertical down, then it is MUCH MUCH easier to do. For most offroad vehicle fab we're talking about material thicknesses 1/4" or less and the opportunity to weld from both sides. This tends to override a lot of the "textbook" rules as we're not trying to cheat extra penetration out of a maxed out 250 or 300 amp machine.

[blueeyeddevil]

Nice work as always. I was just trying to technically answer the question. I weld down too, as long as I gen get to both sides of the joint. , and burn it in.

[atomicjoe23]

All thank you very much for your input!

Like I said I was always taught to weld vertical up, and even then I've seen welds fail bend testing if the amperage wasn't high enough for the root weld. . .

. . .that being said I realize there is room for common sense here (and all of you guys experience as well!) and that the thinner materials we are welding on in addition to the ability to weld both sides (as foley mentioned) over-rides some classical teaching. . .

. . .here's what sold me though, Matt_Helton posted that he welds top down so I will definitely give it a try.

Thanks for chiming in Matt. . .your welds are the exact look that I am shooting for, I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there. . .all of your welds are so uniform, it's very impressive! How long have you been welding? I get frustrated sometimes because I will space a puddle too far out or too close, or I won't wait long enough in one place and I can see I didn't deposit quite enough filler, but I have to remember that I have only been MIG welding for about 8 months and I've been attempting the puddle style welding for less than half that time (not a MIG technique we were taught at welding school. . .more production/industrial geared curriculum). . .even though I know I haven't been welding that long it's very hard for me to not be super critical of my welds, see every flaw and get a little disappointed in them more often than not!

Thanks again for all the suggestions and especially for more of the inspirational pic's!!!