Serpentine for Type 1

[rfojr]

I'm looking for a serpentine system to eliminate the antiquated V belt setup on a Type 1 motor. My main concern is the alternator belt since that seems to be the one that always gets chucked, although I would prefer to include the power steering pump if possible. All the systems I have found so far look to be alternator only and they seem to have no provision to use the old power steering setup Maybe it's just a matter of a longer crank bolt?. Someone mentioned March to me but their website has nothing for VWs.

Any sugesstions ? Thanks

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[Ramsey_ElWardani]

There is not one available that I know of. There was one designed, built and tested at Laughlin two years ago, but it needed some design mods, which have been done - but I can't get them to build me the new one. ARE YOU LISTENING????

[partybarge_pilot]

There are several company's making serpentine belt set-ups for the T1 motors. Problems is, they explode fans. Even welded ones do not hold up under racing conditions. Belt slip is what is keeping your fan alive.

[prerunner1499]

Ive looked into this before and the belt system is not power steering capable. UNLESS of course you get a new PS pump mount fabbed up made, a new PS pulley fabbed up to mount on the crank,, and,, and,,, and,,, see the point. Just stay with stock for an of road car.

[tcrperformance]

Interesting dilemma pertaining to the fan assem. failing when it reaches critical speed. Relatively easy to see why the fan would fail based on its original intended operating intentions and general construction. Either style of belt would satisfy the requirements of driving a alternator and P/S pump if proper set-up is maintained, but the Serp. belt would be over-kill for the required load and would state it would consume some additional H.P. The downside of the Serp. belt is primarily cost and the general lack of availabilty during a race event in comparison to the V-belt. What is the "rules" regarding the fan assem and drive / driven pulleys. I'd assume it must remain mechanical ? Does have to remain steel ? Does it have to be direct ?

[Ramsey_ElWardani]

The system I am referring to included that P/S pump and in fact has less drag than a V-belt. Why do you think auto manufactures switched to Serpentine belts - their quest to increase fuel efficiency.

[tcrperformance]

The switch to a Serp. belt had zero to do with parasitic power losses, the switch has everything to do with one belt capable of operating multiple independent loads simultaneously and providing longer service life in a typical transportation application, the efficiency gain is due to accessory packaging. So your view is a serp belt requires less crankshaft power to drive a component than a V-belt in a desert racing application.
Per our last different viewpoints ( torque verses H.P in relation to competitive motor sports racing) again we agree to disagree.

[DailyPedal]

And why do you feel the need to get rid of the V-belt system that worked for so many decades? And survived so many races...when set up properly with quality parts, the factory system works fine. Biggest problem with the set up is cheap Chinese pulleys, not enough shims, not put together properly and not adjusted properly.

[rfojr]

And why do you feel the need to get rid of the V-belt system that worked for so many decades? And survived so many races...when set up properly with quality parts, the factory system works fine. Biggest problem with the set up is cheap Chinese pulleys, not enough shims, not put together properly and not adjusted properly.

No doubt you're correct DP. There is a very fine line with V belt setup and there in lies the problem. Change belt manufacturers or a slight change in size and bingo, problems. I have had T1 mechanics get it wrong so that is proof that the system is too fickle. It's pretty clear V belts are not very reliable otherwise why would every T1 race car or pre-runner have at least 1 spare belt strapped to their chassis and have an alternator warning light? Serpentine belts last much longer, are much easier to install, they don't require a technician to tell you where and how many shims to put on the pulley based on the new belt you just bought, and with their lateral stability they're virtually impossible to throw. Besides if the power steering pump was on the same belt system you would know right away if you lost the belt. It would be instantaneous notification the fan is no longer spinning. Unfortunately the fan overspeed problem is a big problem.

Thanks everyone for their input. It seems a system that includes the PS pump has yet to make it to market.

[DailyPedal]

First off, we run extra belts because when going off road, sand and rocks get kicked up and wedge between the belt and the pulley...causing the belt to get pitched. Happens with all belt drives, v or serpentine...ever watch a Nascar race? Ever hear em say they lost an oil or powersteering belt? Serpentine belts get flung too.
A VW alternator requires an indicator light to work properly...basic VW stuff there and everybody knows.
And if you need a technician to tell you how many shims to put on, you got bigger problems than V-belts. Buy the Idiots Guide to VW repair like the rest of us already have and learn all you can. I would be more than willing to help someone if only asked...
I am seriously not trying to be a di#k here, it is just that myself and many others here have spent many years working on the old VW powerplants and overall, the biggest problem with the crafty German engineering is the mechanic who thinks he is a better/smarter engineer. The system you are messing with has been around and working for 50+ years and in millions upon millions of vehicles. It has successfully raced all over the world in every possible environment and is still going strong...if there was a better system in place on the planet, and many have tried, don't you think we would be using it by now? There are very few VW shops, there are thousands of people working on VWs in shops. Most of the factory trained (air cooled) VW mechanics have long moved on so do yourself a BIG favor, get educated, ask questions, don't think you know anything and learn...learn...learn...