Wheres the next big class 10 race Lets keep together

[DBMETALWORX]

We are going ecotech as soon as we can too. We have been running a VW with low compression for about 10 years, and the yearly cost is enough to buy the whole ecotech package... So after the initial purchase it will save around $5000 a year plus the savings on fuel.. Which equals more races..

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[EVO Racing]

I completely agree with you B-dub. We need all class 10 guys to voice their opinion on the class 10 forum. And for Todd, call one of us. We will be happy to hear you out and get you any information from the group.


Well as far as motors, I run a Honda. And here’s my idea, not to limit the class 10 sealed stock motor manufactures to only GM. I think the class has diehard Nissan, Ford, Toyota, Dodges, Chevy, Honda, VW, etc guys, why not run what you love. But better yet, get support from local (Toyota B-Dub) dealerships with $$$ and parts. What I’m looking for is stability within the class (a 3 year rule with some miner chances as it progresses). Ok guys, this is an idea on how I want to see OUR class move forward. I sure you have some too. My point is this. We need the guys that race class 10 to help with class 10 structure. Get signed up and put your part for the class. You will all be PAID in return with racing big car counts.


Honda supports the stock ridgeline truck. With a national commercial pushing how tuff their ridgeline truck is to finish and win the Baja 1000. This is a perrict time to go after multiple manufactures and not only in motors (tires, fuel, trans, oils, shocks, energy drinks, etc). Goodyear just released a national commercial with Menzis motorsports. GT tires a nation commercial with BJ’s TT…

[B-Dub 1020]

I have no problem with having sealed stock engines from other manufactures that are equal to the eco-tec. Thats why if we have a coalition I think we can get things done that the actual class 10 racers want.

[tcrperformance]

B-dub you can race against Elam at every BITD race, we race for championships. It appears that most of those interested in the Eco-tech are racers that are on the outside looking in. We make every BITD out of pocket. Yes we have many good sponsors, our race fuel is covered, our tires are covered, our transaxle is covered, and many engine parts are discounted as a reward and as development testing. We got to this point from hard work and sacrifices.

Do I understand the reasoning behind a engine change that will allow one to race a few times more during a year, sure I do. I also know that is not going to have any significant impact on the stated organizers goals, is the jury REALLY out on the durability of the eco-tech in stock form over a entire season? What about the teams that race every race and need the flexability to service their engine.

Lets touch on the issue of the ability to maintain a "spec" or "sealed" engine, in practicality that means "you" the owner will NEVER know when your engine is going to spit a bearing or hammer a bunch of valves and seats because your springs took a crap. Am I to assume you are just going to shrug off the expenses of getting to a race and the entrys and then get another used engine or another crate engine, or are you banking on only racing a few races a year, one here and one there. Our do you suggest that those that do race class 10 series just move up to class 1, so you can race!

Many of you are looking for sponsorship and you need to, but look at it another way. NO ONE pays attention to the street stock classes at the locale circle track or the stock classes at the drags, the stands are not filled with the truck series, they all want the good stuff, they are your potential sponsors! You have to produce results, it does not mean you have to win every race, but you have to show up for every race!

Many of you are in the CA area, where do you think most race engine components come from or are machined and processed, every single part on a PRO class vehicle is custom or specific.

I do not believe that "picking" races is going to entice any organizer to offer any significant concessions, only when commit will they consider changes. The bottom line is most are for profit.

Todd Elams car is prepped in-house we are a true grit partnership, the only concessions I provide is all work is done at cost and all race winnings are my reward.

I like Scores new rule package, you get to use current engine technology and increased displacement, it dos'nt matter who or where it came from provided it is produced in quanitity. YOU chose to use EFI and keep it stock or you can really get into it. Power is not mandatory, you HAVE to finish races first and too many have not figured that part out.

Did a eco-tech win Parker, Yes and we got second. We had a flawless race, not a single issue. Our little 1650 back-up engine was no match for Parkers washes compared to ONE eco-tech, and the fact was it had alot more to do with than just a eco-tech, he "spanked" every other eco-tech too!. Do I think my race engine would have made a significant difference in the end at Parker, NO. Do I think a little Honda or Toyota will have a advantage at Silver State, Yes.

In my opinion if class 10 car counts do not double by this yrs end, then I would say the spec rule was a bunch of hype, or a pipe dream at best. I must be the poster child of those against the sealed engine rule and I'm not referring to engine builders, I get just as many calls from class 10 racers and owners that want nothing to due with spec racing. What racer does not want more power! Was'nt class 4 supposed to address the cost issue, and don't tell me its because of Bill Salvage, thats BS.

[redmist]

I like Scores new rule package, you get to use current engine technology and increased displacement, it dos'nt matter who or where it came from provided it is produced in quanitity. YOU chose to use EFI

I think you missed the first line of the new class 10 rules.

"Single seat vehicles may run a unrestricted 2250cc four(4) cylinder water cooled carbureted engine. Maximum of one venturi per cylinder. No fuel injection ,variable timed cams, and no variable left cams. Two seat vehicles may run a unrestricted 2500cc four(4) cylinder water cooled carbureted engine. Maximum of one venturi per cylinder. No fuel injection, variable timed cams, and no variable left cams."

So if by using current vehicle technology, you mean carburators, which haven't been used in unrestricted racing for 20-30 years then yes it's cutting edge. No VVT, no VVTL, no fuel injection, no more than 4 valves, so what about modern engines are you using?
To win in class ten you would be silly not to take something like a Honda F20C, resleeve it, bore it, create custom valve train and cams (to remove VTEC) replace the internals, flow it (more) and create a beautiful flowing carb manifold. Costs... INCREDIBLE...horsepower... CONSIDERABLE..... sponsorship on a carbed modern engine... DOUBTFUL.

The F20C produces the highest specific power output for any naturally-aspirated 2.0L piston engine in a car priced under US$100,000, at 123.5 hp (92.1 kW) per liter

[tcrperformance]

I did not miss anything, you WILL get the choice!!!! Do you know WHY the carb rule is in place, because for many years racers want to go back to simplicity, plus many feel they have to run a Motech management, professional engine builders tend to be more comfortable with their engines equipped with a carb, how many builders do you know that have both engine and chassis dynos under the same roof, how many tuners own a chassis dyno. Score WILL give those the choice, stock internal engine with EFI or build it to your best ability or whatever you can afford and run carbs. The rules are constantly being worked on daily, its a balancing act between the racers, engine builders and Score, at least Score reconizes everyone, thats A LOT more than I can say for BITD!
Production EFI intake conduits are terrible, NO one uses one unless the rules state so. Its not the carb, its WHAT CAN BE DONE TO IT!
This situation has been brewing for several years, class 4 has A LOT to do with the current situation, Class 4 NEVER TOOK OFF. Score has been seriously considering deleting class 10 for years. This is a dire situation for class 10 there is no way to make everyone happy, but the fact is money drives this sport and its not from entry fees, thats only a bonus. Take your 3 big organizers, Score, BITD and Snore, all are excellent organizations. BUT Sal and Casey do not get along, they are competitors, each believes they are the best and number 1, and neither want to follow the other, Snore takes the middle road, they are about the racer and there lies the real issue. Score and BITD work against each intentionally from a rule standpoint, Snore trys to make sense out of what the other two are doing and find some middle ground.
Look at it this way, you are president of a reputable organization and a couple of builders (chassis / engine) and a few potential racers tell you what a great idea they have, you put it into play, your told and believe its cost effective, it will increase car counts etc etc. and it just dos'nt produce. Are YOU going to listen anymore?

Dude I build engines with fully cnc gsr heads, B18 blocks, sleeved, welded decks, de-stroked billet cranks, pauter rods, custom WEB cams, Supertech valve train, it has never seen less than 2 K race miles before a tear-down! Right now everything is on hold until these rules get straighten out. I let most of the other builders assemble cookie cutter combos. I'm not impressed with the F series engine, not from a desert race engine build standpoint! If 2.4 is the magic displacement number then let me use a K24TSX as a platform, if all organisations adopted a universal multi-manufacture engine rule with a displacement limit, This sealed spec rule is going to be a lot more trouble than its worth.

You will never stop those that are constantly developing, its just not in the nature of us. Just look at one current trend in DLC coatings. Ring and pinions, wrist pins and CV's are just one huge antifriction advantage, better than ceramic bearings IF YOU'VE EVER TESTED THEM.

This is just my perspective in regards to class 10 which I have participated in at many levels for the past 16 yrs, I've seen many come and go in that time period.

[redmist]

I'm sorry but I don't understand your argument. You're talking of altering the rules as they read now, which is what we are all trying to do.

I'm also not questioning your dedication to the sport or your credentials. I myself own two Jimcos. One a 2400lb 700hp (detuned) Cosworth twin turbo, the second a 2600lb P72 sleeved Danzio Honda. I've also been involved in the sport for 20 years, a majority of those racing 4age Toyota's until the change to class 1. I've acted at commitee level on the council and as the president of NZ's only sanctioning body. However it's the compeditive nature in me that looks for opportunites in regulations, as we all should. And right now there is a HUGE opportunity to take advantage of the reg changes.

The regulations, as they are currently written, as of today, allow people such as yourself and I to totally and utterly dominate in the class if we choose to build an engine to the regulations. Utterly dominate to the point of making all existing cars in the class look idiotic. Overnight making all car's in class 10 obsolete. You and I both know there isn't a chance for any existing Honda/Toyota/Ecotec against a modern 2250cc/2500cc built with quad carbs. You would also know that if I came to you with checkbook in hand that it would cost substancially more for you to build me a K24 (without i-VTEC, forged internals, quad carbs) than it would ever cost you to develop a B16 or B18 (standard intake, VTEC enabled) Honda. In fact I'd suggest a K24 properly developed would cost close on an average class 1 engine. And it's those costs that are of great concern to any compeditor and should be a concern to a good sanctioning body wanting to create\maintain a limited class.

So we are all in agreement, the rules, as they are written today, need to change.

By the way I find EFI considerably easier to deal with, tune and considerably more stable in an offroad envinronment than carbs. But I guess at the end of the day it's personal preference. I've also never ran one of my EFI Cosworth, Toyota, Nissan, TVR engines on anything other than Chassis dyno's.

[tcrperformance]

If the committees goal is to reconfigure class 10's engine rules to only allow bone stock production engines to compete for what ever reason, then I for one will have no interest in continuing participation in the class.

Help me understand! What was the primary intent in the creation of class 4 then, wasn't class 4 created just for the basic concerns of the current situation.

Maybe I'm totally off, but it seems to me it would be better to revise class 4's small issues with limited ecu and T-body control arguments, than rewrite class 10's original engine rule concept.

I'm personally passionate about Scores new class 10 engine rules, until now for ME there was no immediate reason to race with Score again, only because of the race location logistics of BITD.

My personal gripe really is with BITD, and I would hate to see any other organizer follow!

Maybe when the committees proposed changes is published I will have a different viewpoint.

[Fourstroker]

If the committees goal is to reconfigure class 10's engine rules to only allow bone stock production engines to compete for what ever reason, then I for one will have no interest in continuing participation in the class.

Help me understand! What was the primary intent in the creation of class 4 then, wasn't class 4 created just for the basic concerns of the current situation.

Maybe I'm totally off, but it seems to me it would be better to revise class 4's small issues with limited ecu and T-body control arguments, than rewrite class 10's original engine rule concept.

I'm personally passionate about Scores new class 10 engine rules, until now for ME there was no immediate reason to race with Score again, only because of the race location logistics of BITD.

My personal gripe really is with BITD, and I would hate to see any other organizer follow!

Maybe when the committees proposed changes is published I will have a different viewpoint.

Pretty sure they are trying to keep Class 10 as it is but adding the option for other manufacturer sealed stock 2.5 engines. SCORE started Class 4 because they are SCORE and they do not play well with others. If they would have just added the Ecotec option to Class 10 like ALL other orgs (and in the exact same way) all of this drama could have been avoided and there would be no need for Class 4. This includes muddying the water the way they have with the Throttle Body/Fly by wire/MEFI vs MOTEC issues. All other orgs allow any of the above without issue.

[robertharman]

My .02cents. I would like the rules to stay as they are right now. 1650 built to the hilt or stock sealed motor. The 1650 platform has worked very well for the 21 years i have raced in class10. The sealed motor just gives us more options.