803 fire notes

[ACME]

Halon or FM2000 (Flameout) is worthless in an open cockpit or open engine compartment car. I urge you as well to look at FireCharger or ColdFire AFFF systems.

AGREED! We chose the ESS system for our TL and are adding one to the new car. These guys were open to plenty of conversation and very helpful in giving us facts and info and offer a great product at a good value: http://essfire.com/

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[gotteracing]

I would also like to point out that those of us who are just lowly spectators need to carry equipment for our own vehicles in case of fire but also be prepared to help racers and other spectators in emergencies. extra extinguishers, shovels, drinking water, a well equipped 1st aid kit, cpr training, and the will to go help.
Mike

exactly, i cant count all the times ive seen people with all the equipment they bought at home depot, and just freeze in an emergency. they just lock up and stare. wtf i even had to push people out of the way to give my grandpa cpr once.

[jowoog]

this truly a scary read ,... seat beat release ,.. man i hate fire ,...

[oldman dirt]

Halon or FM2000 (Flameout) is worthless in an open cockpit or open engine compartment car. I urge you as well to look at FireCharger or ColdFire AFFF systems.

My system has Dupont FE36 foam in it, I have seen the systems work in open cockpit cars, but am looking into the COLD FIRE design as well.

[Bro_Gill]

Marxico- For the net, simple box cutter style, not flip, not lock back, just the kind you can smack on anything and it protrudes out. Razor blade will make short work of either style net. Just a little duct tape somewhere within a 3/4s arms reach from where you sit, preferably in your sight line. Don't worry about others seeing it, this is for YOU! I prefer nets that will drop down when the car is upside down. This will be a more panicked escape than a car than lands on it's wheels after a roll. Rod with spring/washer is probably the simplist type to use. For the tangle of tubes/hoses/wires, It is usually easy to have the intercom/radio wire zipped to the pumper hose so it becomes one piece. As far as loose stuff flying around the cab, everything should be tied/bolted down. Especially something like a fire extinguisher that can kill you without any fire after the roll.

[Dirtracer 619]

The somber side of racing glad all were ok lots of thoughts going through my mind right now

some very good advice

Landstromracing maybe a little later now

[MARXICO]

Thanks Bro Gill I have been racing off road for 25 years now and am aware of the duct tape knife within reach, I now am aware of how burning duct tape feels,
ANY duct tape you install on the interior of your car can ignite and drip on you; something to really consider…it is not fire proof!
Our truck passed tec after they inspected the interior all things were fasten down and had no problem of anything coming loose for the past 238 miles it was the endow at 80 mph that created the G Force and momentum to allow things to brake off and fly around, the fire extinguisher stayed in place I was unable to reach it from my seat The pumper hose and radio was zippedtied together the hose came off the radio hook up was the problem, the straps of my Hybred HNR seemed to get hooked on unknown objects as I was trying to get out.
I too generalized what some one should do but an experience like this one educated me on what actually happens.
I have been in many race cars of good quality and considered myself safe; I now have different views from this experience that I will use in the future. Racers have opinions but very few back them up financially so it is easy to tell a car owner what they should do to their car to make it safer but few of the suggestion makers pony up with the money to make that change and expect the car owner to do so.I have raced in this truck 20 years ago I have more than 70 races in it including a couple of B1Ks with no reason to ever consider it unsafe
I have been racing circle track for 9 years and been upside down in those also all of our cars had the window net release at the top of the A post, Nascar requires it at the same location.
I am installing the spring loaded bars top and bottom on my single seater….didn’t find any rules saying I can’t. I don’t expect any rule changes to come from my suggestions I am only sharing mine, so if you want to latch your window net behind the door go for it.
The only thing I forgot to suggest is to mount the IRC tracker with in arms reach so you can activate it, ours was mounted on the dash and was covered in flames, I generalized the IRC trackers ability’s and assumed that it was like a black box that would send an emergency signal if it was upside down or could detect abnormal temperatures over 500* but I was wrong….it offered no protection unless you could manually activate it and have time to relay the problem at hand it would be nice if this update was possible at a future date
Our car was prepared, passed tec, nothing flew around while racing but during our crash we found what need to be improved and hope that others will consider what happened to us can happen to them and take a moment to focuses on what they can do to prevent it from happing to them

[AZ45]

Other tips-
Mount a fire suppression release so they can be accessed from inside and outside of the vehicle.
I identify where the release is with an “E” decal that comes with most systems, we have them separate if needed. Same with the ignition cut off, make it accessible from outside and identify it.
Pull the safety pin out of the release knob before the race! You don’t need one more thing to do when you’re trying to activate your system.
Don’t waste a nozzle on your fuel cell because you’ll never be able to push enough chemical to put a fuel fire out. If you want fire suppression for the fuel cell, use aseparate heat activated system.

A single layer suit will give you about 5 seconds if it’s Nomex. Most single layer suits are treated cotton which can wash out over time which makes them less effective. I can barely get out of my car to buy a Slurpee in 5 seconds(or less).

We have safety knives for cutting beltss and net on the UPR trailer at all events and ESS fire systems on upr.com

[DesertGuy1]

During this incident I first turned off the battery switch before any fire started the first indication of fire came from under the hood at the air cleaner and began to grow, I was still belted in and couldn’t reach the fire extinguisher after I realized that wasn’t going to happen I began to un buckle my belts and that was a struggle because I was hanging horizontal, my body weight loaded the belts making it more difficult to undo than sitting upright..
There was a wave of flames coming from under the rear hood and now thru the driver’s window,
I was unable to open the window net latch ,it was the small seat belt latch style, I normally have to take off my glove to push the button because it is recessed and so small, I don’t know if the internal mechanisms is made of plastic and melted or it was just difficult to trigger.
At some point I saw Art spraying the rear extinguisher thru the front window but it was not enough
The cab is now totally engulfed with flames and the window net now had me trapped, fortunately it was the net style rather than the strap style, I was only able to escape after the window net burned away and I was able to crawl out too escape. If I had to wait for the strap style net to burn away to escape I would not be here to share this with you. Had a knife been located by the window I don’t know if I would of been able to locate it or even open it, fire creates a limited time frame
I was wearing a multi-layer suit that held up incredibly, the only burns that I received were from burning plastic dripping on me mainly the net , my back was burned by the plastic Johnson & Johnson first aid kit that melted to my back.
This is what I learned.
1) A multilayered fire suit is never too expensive, if you can’t afford one wait until you can it was hot out that day but the suit was not uncomfortable.
2) Practice fire drills as mentioned above
3) Buy the proper fire suppression equipment, not a cheap unit just to pass tech.
4) Use a lever or spring loaded rod window net release system rather than the seat belt type for the reasons I mentioned above.
5) Locate the window net release system at the top of the A post area. I believe this should be a mandatory location .If a car rolls over and is upside down it is easier for a course worker to find rather than having to try and locate it by sticking there head thru the front window looking upside down trying to find it behind the door. When you roll and are upside down you are looking at the roof, wearing a head neck restraint system limits how far you can bend your neck to look down and find the release under the window that is now covered in crap that has been flying around the cab
6) My pumper hose and radio hook up along with my HNR system tangled up, I don’t have an answer how to correct that but is defiantly an issue that need more research.Expect that everything you have fastened down in the cockpit to fly around and relocate like the flammable first aid kit box
7) I urge everyone to update your safety program, if money is an issue simply miss a couple of races and use that money to get updated
8) If you have a single layer fire suit at least buy nomex underwear

Recently, I was talking to someone that related a similar situation and reminded me of this thread. They were saying after they rolled multiple times, they felt like that game you spin around a baseball bat and try to walk straight... They knew where everything was but trying to find it upside down (at night) took some thought. That had me thinking, simplicity is best.

As far as the window net rods/brackets go, it is surprising how limited it is... basically, you need to combine two sets to get it similar top to bottom. However, if you have some scrap laying around, it is cheaper to make them rather than cobbling parts together. Buying the handles proved cheaper than making them.

Now even a caveman can remove the nets... thanks.