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affordable transaxle for V8 power??

Discussion in 'Shop - Driveline' started by skinny, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. skinny

    skinny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ft. Worth, TX
    im thinking about putting together a 500-550 hp rear engine class 1 style buggy and my question is this...
    is there any other option other than a $20-30,000 transaxle to get the power to the wheels... i dont want to run a solid rear axle...so no truggy.....im not asking how to do it different, but how to do it without spending that kind of money...im open to all suggestions...... and if there is a cheaper option (10k or less) that can handle a little less hp i would be open to that as well......i dont want something that breaks all the time though.....i want it to last at least 4-5 races

    ps...before everyone starts telling me how much these buggys cost i am well aware....
    im not trying to win a race yet, just trying to have some fun.....

    thanks in advance
    adam
     
  2. HotRod82

    HotRod82 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    I don't know of ANY transaxle (including the high dollar ones) that will last 4-5 races with that kind of horsepower. Go down to 300 HP, bulid it light and baby the gearbox and you may get 1500 miles out of it.....
     
  3. skinny

    skinny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ft. Worth, TX
    thank you for the reply 1500 miles is fine, how much is the cost (ballbark) of the transaxle... and what model of transaxle would handle stock ls1 power (380hp)..... ( i no the expensive ones will, im looking for something a little more affordable)
     
  4. Ryan_P

    Ryan_P Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2004
    Location:
    La Verne, CA
    I guess you "could" run a Mendeola MD4-2D which would be around $7500, I wouldn't recommend it. Don't skimp, save save save and buy an Mendeola S4($12k) or buy a Fortin.

    -Ryan
     
  5. Brad Falin

    Brad Falin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Location:
    Fernley
    Take a turbo 400 and couple it to a nine" and go independent from the nine", Or go with 850 hp and add some geared hubs make it 4wd and go on a c6 for a season and spend 1500- 1800 on a trans, but you will need hummer diffs as well but there reasonable 1200.00 new from the dealer. I do not have 850 hp yet but the drive train will handle it. You can try the geared hub in a two wheel drive appilcation the stuff is extremly well built. I would like to build a new car a little lighter 3500lbs target using this stuff, the current car weighs 5200 race ready off the line.
     
  6. skinny

    skinny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ft. Worth, TX
    cool thanks for the help so far guys......

    so how much power can the mendeola s4 reliably handle.....
    i dont want to blow it up everyrace........
    how much is a prep going to cost on the s4 also

    on the turbo 400 to 9 inch idea that sounds like a good option (where would i get a 9 inch center only... with axle flanges to bolt to cv's)??? and how much would it cost ring and pinion and axles included.....

    how much power (assuming the turbo 400 is built right) would this setup reliably hold up to.......

    also is it possible to run that setup (400 to 9) in a rear engine buggy or does it have to be mid engine because of the length......

    also to directly mount the 400 to the 9 inch what parts are needed and what is the cost of those parts

    sorry for all the questions... i appreciate the help guys
    im stuck in tx for now and theres no one here i can ask
    adam
     
  7. FABRICATOR

    FABRICATOR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Ventura County, CA
    The Ford 9" is relatively inexpensive to work with, but it will end up fairly wide flange-to-flange. This takes a bite out of available wheel travel.
     
  8. HotRod82

    HotRod82 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    The biggest problem with the 9" set up is the width of the third member itself. It is too wide to get a decent axle length, the last thing you want to do is use plunging axles. (from a cost standpoint) Are you sure you dont want to go with a front engine truggy? If cost is a big factor, you can get a crate LS2, th400 and a good rear end for just the cost of a decent transaxle alone. The sky is the limit with this set up...no horsepower limitations and you do not have to sweat tearing up the gearbox. Otherwise, do what Ryan said and save till you can afford the right gearbox because if you skimp up front, you will be spending a fortune trying to keep a cheaper box together- or worse, being parked on the side of the course waiting for the trailer....
     
  9. skinny

    skinny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ft. Worth, TX
    how much wider than the mendeola flange to flange.....
    how much travel will this rob......

    by the time you by the mendi at 12k, then cvs, axles, and hubs that is getting up there in cost.....it appears that maybe a turbo 400 to a solid rear end (truggy) is the most cost effective way to go...if you want to run v8 power.....
    am i wrong???? this setup should also be more reliable right.....

    i mean you can get a sweet tranny for 3-5k and good rearend for 5k...a good driveshaft for 1k....so all those together are cheaper than just the mendi.....
    and it would hold way more power....

    ps i typed this before i read the last reply.....so maybe truggy is the way to go, if your on a budget
     
  10. Brad Falin

    Brad Falin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Location:
    Fernley
    You can get a 9" flange to flange at 11"( it takes some mods) A spool will hold the cv bells on. With a track width of 92-95 inches you should hit the 22" mark with 935s and a midboard or outboard hub. ( dissemenation cars used to run this combo).
    The part to connect the turbo 400 to the 9 inch is availible, I will check on cost, there has been two made to date. Rob Parsons has a car with this combo in it already, he has not " raced it" yet just lots of test miles. The combo is LS1 turbo 400 9" LS1 mid engine. Steve sullivan has this combo also and has raced it a few times ( Laughlin 2006 and Baja 500, not sure on the results,

    If you go the geared hub route the hummer pinion is at least 3.5-4" in diameter and will go several thousand miles. If you like go to www.bradleysraceworks.com and you can see the combo, I have been racing it for two years, and have lots of test miles on stuff. I know you can put together a very reliable car with this drivetrain package for under 8000.00 with a used LS1 engine. you can easily get 20-22" of travel
     
  11. skinny

    skinny Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ft. Worth, TX
    im going truggy so i can run the power i want without spending a fortune......
    thanks for all the help guys, you made the decision easy
    now i just have to decide if i want the buggy look or if im gonna hang a truck body on it
    adam
     
  12. KREGER FAB

    KREGER FAB Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Location:
    ORANGE CA
    Try The Albins Transaxle Or The Xtrac.
     
  13. Dezertpilot

    Dezertpilot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Location:
    Newport Beach, CA
    KREGER FAB I do not know which Xtrac you are referring to but the one I checked out at Laughlin was like almost $40k! Maybe they have a less HP cheaper version....
     
  14. FABRICATOR

    FABRICATOR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Ventura County, CA
    Spools are not friendly to IRS.
    Not to add to the difficulty, but a truggy with much power or speed can work a 9" pretty hard.

    Brad, how much do those Hummer geared hubs weigh?
     
  15. Brad Falin

    Brad Falin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Location:
    Fernley
    Fabricator:

    I think that is why the dissemenation guys went to the albn trans ( not sure)
    I run a detroit locker in the rear of mine and a gleason in the front. I will weigh the geared hub tomorrow, just got finished with a new suspension setup for my car, I will be able to adjust valving and ride control from in the car.

    I think the geared hub weighs around 58 lbs, One of my great fabricator idols was going to machine an aluminum housing for them, and roll them forward, and put them in an arm set up for the rear, The hub is very simple If you broke a spindle during a race and had a spare you can change it in about 4-7 minutes, I have broken two of them but they were fatigue 8000+ race miles, not on my car, Baja2000 flag hummer and a prerunner.
     
  16. BajaFand

    BajaFand Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    San Dimas, CA
    Also, look at new Corvette rear diffs. The Z06 can handle atleast 500hp, probably more.
     
  17. theduece

    theduece Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    orange county,CA
    what about porsche transaxles?
    I'm just thinking aloud here butt they are used on high horsepower high traction machines. if i remember correctly i tink the one to look for is called a g55????
     
  18. FABRICATOR

    FABRICATOR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Ventura County, CA
    Thanks Brad,
    Those hubs look like cast iron. If so, it should be possible to make some for the front just about as strong with high quality aluminum castings. For the rear, billet pieces should not be that hard to make. Major pounds could be cut.
    Too bad they're spur gears. Planetaries could shave another few pounds, and have higher torque capacity.

    The Corvette and Porsche components would brake in no time flat in a dezert Truck/Class 1. There is a lot more than horsepower involved. Big tires and shock loads are really hard on things.
     
  19. theduece

    theduece Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Location:
    orange county,CA
    fabricator regarding the porsche units breaking in no time flat-have you seen someone attempt to use one or is that your opinion? i have contemplated using one in a budget class 10 car, I know the hp numbers are quite a bit lower do you think they can survive in this? what exactly are the weak points?[what grenades in them when you add lots of power?]
     
  20. FABRICATOR

    FABRICATOR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2001
    Location:
    Ventura County, CA
    Yes I have seen it, and many other mistakes. The first 3 things to go is a toss up between the ring & pinion, spider gears, or case itself. It all has to do with large amounts of inertia and traction so you don't need high HP to grenade things.

    A bus trans would be a better choice for the dezert because of the better differential carrier and gears available, and a stronger case.
     

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