Ecotec cheating - what would you do?

Discussion in 'Desert Racing' started by Ramsey_ElWardani, Feb 24, 2012.

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  1. Ramsey_ElWardani

    Ramsey_ElWardani Ironman

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    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    Not looking to call out any suspected cheaters, or speculate on who is or who isn't - here is the question:

    If you were going to build a cheater sealed Ecotec, what would you do and how would you get away with it?
  2. fishd00d

    fishd00d What A Joke

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    San Marcos, CA
    Come on Ramsey you actually expect someone to tell you how they are cheating??? lol

    Personally I would start by moving the fuel pressure regulator into the cab :)
  3. Ramsey_ElWardani

    Ramsey_ElWardani Ironman

    Joined:
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    Yes I do, there are a lot of talented guys on here that don't race Ecotecs and some that do, that might have some great ideas.

    Fuel Pressure Regulators have nothing to do with sealed Ecotec rules, they are open.

    I'm looking for ideas like machine work...

    In the Class 10 forum that are accusations of cheating - just wondering what they would be doing.
  4. pdailey

    pdailey #billsson

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you. :)
  5. B-Dub 1020

    B-Dub 1020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    LakeHavasu City Az
    Are you serious Ramsey. You remove the tag do anything you want and put a tag back on. Oh and yes anyone can buy a taggin tool if they wanted to. Cam grinds , total seal rings , port and polish head etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. The point that was being made was that someone (The racers as a group putting in say $25 each race and hire an inspector or maybe the promoters Tech inspect their rules ) to be able to check an engine if there is a protest. Is that not what post tech is for. No difference than checking 1600 , 12 , 9 , 11 or any other class. I posted on class 10 forum because I heard from aprrox 3 diff people of this being done. Please dont kill the messenger I just think it makes sense. Class 10 used to always have engines inspected when Honda's Toyota's and VW 's were the majority. Its all good and this is just something that could be addressed in the future. An engine with more HP does not win but is does help.
  6. 9rocky

    9rocky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Location:
    Apple Valley/Lake Arrowhead, Ca
    First thing is if it were to be proven that someone responsible for sealing was found to be complicit in any cheating, said persons or company should receive a lifetime ban from the ability to seal and certify motors. Not saying there was any cheating, but if there were...
  7. MIKE S

    MIKE S Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Location:
    East Bay
    Lets see,

    Offset grind crankshaft with custom cast pistons that look the same as stock but are 60 over and pin hight adjusted.
    Custom cam, (regrind stock cams)
    Bigger vavles
    Deck the block and the head



    Oh and the, Get the guy out of the turn kit! Sneaky Pete Nos kit with the bottle in the air filter box! (Easy way ot add 25 hp to a junk yard motor that you don't care about)


    But Ramsey Im sure you thought of all of this, why do you ask?
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  8. M.Harvey1600

    M.Harvey1600 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Location:
    Riverside, Ca and Cal Poly Pomona
    This is what i have heard is happening... getting the engine sealed from the reputable company... bringing the engine back to their shop removing the tag and opening the engine up making the upgraded changes then re-sealing the engine with a tagging tool... making it appear that the engine had never been opened up since it was originally sealed...

    I heard they are doing custom cam grinds, better crank, lightened rods a whole lot of things. our team has agreed that we will file a protest when the people we have heard are cheating have a solid finish.

    we like to beat cheaters heads up. if they have to cheat and still get beat that just proves that we are a solid team.
  9. Ramsey_ElWardani

    Ramsey_ElWardani Ironman

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    Why do I ask?

    Yes I know all of this, but realistically what would you do? How much do you think you can get away with? I'm not suggesting that an approve "Sealer" or supplier would seal an illegal engine, but asking what could be realistically done after the seal to cheat and get away with it. You would have to fake a new seal... How much could you really do and get away with?
  10. Ramsey_ElWardani

    Ramsey_ElWardani Ironman

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    Also, what is the real gain and cost - and would it be worth it, especially if you got caught?
  11. Maxwell_99

    Maxwell_99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    Wrightwood CA
    Sorry to pop your bubble but I'm pretty sure the toyotas and hondas were never teched in class 10. I know this because we always ran a VW and they would want to post tech us because it was easy and not post tech the hondas/toyotas because they were 'harder' to tech. You can argue this all you want but I was a part of this for a while and saw it happen with my own eyes. Cheaters are cheaters and there will be cheaters in every class. Even class 1/TT. If they can't cheat on the car they will find a way to cheat on the track.
  12. B-Dub 1020

    B-Dub 1020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
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    Luv ya rocky, it was never said that engine sealers are sealing modified engines. I was told that racers are removing tags and re taggin. I do agree on the lifetime band for this behavior. I remember a guy telling me how to remove the seal on pro truck engines and put them back on. Kinda the same thing I thought. This is just conversation to maybe bring this to light and dealt with. We dont need anyone getting all pissed off Please
  13. esbyota

    esbyota Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Location:
    Phoenix, az
    I'm pretty sure the real question is what type of games you would have to play if you actually went ahead and opened the motor. Obviously you could do any internal work and have it re-sealed by shady x motors.

    First thing I see pointing you out is basic sound. Can't have a cam that lopes like a old school v8, can't have internals so over worked that the motor wraps out to 10k+ amongst other things that everyone would be able to notice going through tech.

    Second, driving you can't plan on flat out pulling away from competitors on flat wide open sections or off the start.

    Third, if you are smoking people you will automatically draw attention so you better scrub some time and at least make it look fair.

    There is a saying that goes - if you’re not cheating....
  14. B-Dub 1020

    B-Dub 1020 Well-Known Member

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    Its just not me making sheet up that teams have said this. Thanks ,I agree they should be protested like P-Diddy has said. But some dont feel its the promoters post techs job to have the tools to check this. So how does this get done. Now we are getting somehere. Ramsey to me NO. Its not worth getting caught but right now theres no way to get caught. Help us figure it out your smart.
  15. JEFFRPM

    JEFFRPM Non Sugar Coated

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Under the Tetons
    Make it a "claimer" engine class come up with a price for the other guys engine only the top 10 finishers can play at the finish line you want the winners motor pay the cash and the victom has 2 hours to yank it under supervision of the buyer if he refuses the sale he is a DNF sweet and simple this also includes the ECU with the engine.
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  16. B-Dub 1020

    B-Dub 1020 Well-Known Member

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    Your not popping my bubble, we ran a toyota and had it cc'd once at post tech in 4 seasons. But yes for the most part the top 3 and usally a honda in 1st always said lets not check engines is that ok with you. Man we have alot of 2nd and 3rd place plaques LOL!!
  17. esbyota

    esbyota Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2004
    Location:
    Phoenix, az
    I'm pretty sure the real question is what type of games you would have to play if you actually went ahead and opened the motor. Obviously you could do any internal work and have it re-sealed by shady x motors.

    First thing I see pointing you out is basic sound. Can't have a cam that lopes like a old school v8, can't have internals so over worked that the motor wraps out to 10k+ amongst other things that everyone would be able to notice going through tech.

    Second, driving you can't plan on flat out pulling away from competitors on flat wide open sections or off the start.

    Third, if you are smoking people you will automatically draw attention so you better scrub some time and at least make it look fair.

    There is a saying that goes - if you’re not cheating....
  18. pdailey

    pdailey #billsson

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Location:
    Carlsbad, CA
    How much though? Some guys buy a brand new Turnkey engine at $5k and some buy $800 junkyard motors.
  19. B-Dub 1020

    B-Dub 1020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    LakeHavasu City Az
    My opinion, Not cool , motec 5k , Mephi 1200 new engine 3500 vs 600 for used. Promoters are making money after a race is done (with good amount of entries) Why cant their tech dept check an engine if a protest is filed. Or have a person there that has the knowledge and tools if needed this with a rule of banned for life would detur perhaps.
  20. JEFFRPM

    JEFFRPM Non Sugar Coated

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    That is up to the guys that race the class the ones i would worry about are the 800 buck dudes that spend 8k or more building a "stock" wink wink motor and kicking your butts until the guy in 9th place ponys up and buys your motor.
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