Make the punishment fit the crime!

Discussion in 'Desert Racing' started by mawtrophykart, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. mawtrophykart

    mawtrophykart Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    woodland hills ca
    It seems to me that the penalties given away from sanctioning bodies lately seem a little harsh. Jesse Jones,Ox, getting DQ'ed and Esposito who won the race, given a 15 minute penalty for throwing rocks on a sign. Theres about 11 other penalties people have recieved that have devastated their season. I can understand the Safety factor(ie Jones going backwards on the course is very dangerous) but Bitd throwing 15 minute penalties because they hated getting their signs scratched? WTF? I'm all for the penalties but it seems they are a little too severe. Back in the day if you won a race you knew right away, you got a check and a trophy, now you can get Dq'ed from a race all the way up to the Championship banquet and have any podium snatched from you. Ahh the good old days!
  2. chickenlips

    chickenlips Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Location:
    Diamond Bar CA, Havasu
    Yes sir. I long abandoned SCORE and their delightful , along with Savages revolving rules a loooong time ago. LOVE MEXICO, but hate inconsistency. Great fun to pre run though.
  3. ndvalium

    ndvalium Rescue Director

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    Las Vegas / Nevada
    Hey Dave,

    I don't know specfically what penalties you are referring to with BITD however I will speculate that throwing rocks at the sign was not the infraction. Casey typically has signs for road crossings and checkpoints. these areas are all staffed by volunteers for BITD. Therefore the speed of the vehicles is the factor that I would think is the issue that they were penalized for. It is a safety factor. I would guess that the rocks hiting the signs were used as a measurment that they were at a higher speed or accelerating in that area. Again just my speculation based on my 15 years doing races for BITD.

    As far as timeliness, I agree that it would be nice to have quicker results. However the reality is with the sever consequences that have been imposed the last couple of events for violations, I like that it is creating a more equal level for everyone. Through course workers, IRC and now even YouTube, the sanctioning bodies have thousands of eyes that are able to point out things that seem irregular. It means that people that follow the rules established, do their homework, and have a good day in the desert, actually have a chance to win an event. It isnt about who has the most money.

    Sanctioning bodies for these events have an rediculous responsibility to hold a race anywhere in the world. Satisfying a entire group of racers, not just one class or person. Satisfying the general public that supports with there attendance. Satisfyinging communities, as well as land owners. Satisfying and keeping the governing officals happy that they are keeping their commitments to them.

    I know in some instances with BITD and SCORE that the sanction bodies have been made aware of infractions from those that grant them permits. They have no choice but to show a strick inteolerance of the rules being broken and then hopefully, inforce the same peanlities on simiplar infractions even if not "caught" by the same officals.

    Anyway, Just my opinions -

    Dave
  4. WickedGravityVideo

    WickedGravityVideo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Location:
    Grand Junction, CO
    I side with Dave that the penalties are out of line...not only do they lose their place and their draw for the next race, it really screws with a team's plans for season championship points. I am not familiar with the specifics of the JJ incident, but I know it is not too uncommon for racers to pass their pits and have to circle around to get back to them, or to leave their pits and realize they need more pit work and turn back. This whole thing about SCORE apparently seeing posted videos and using this as DQ fuel makes a video guy uncomfortable about posting stuff.... I, for one, do not want to be posting video for entertainment value and see it used against a team. As for RGs DQ, I wonder if the pre-start mini-roost on BJ had anything to do with the decision.

    VIVA BAJA
  5. 4x4nutz

    4x4nutz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    At a time when desert racing is being looked at through a microscope, safety, and respect for those making and enforcing the rules is extremely important. I don't agree with some of the penalties and DQ's given out lately, but I guess it's to show everyone that it doesn't matter how famous you are, or that fact that your driving a .5 million dollars TT, you will still be held accountable for your actions just like everyone else.
    2 people like this.
  6. Zambo

    Zambo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    It seems obvious to me that SCORE is simply trying to send a message that people will actually receive. Its no different than the speeding and short-coursing penalties at the 500 two years ago. Sal can stand up there and tell everybody not to speed or cut the course, but until he actually lowers the hammer NOBODY listens. Now how many people speed on the highway? None, at least on purpose.

    I don't know about the Jones incident but I think Sal started seeing a trend developing with these finish line demos and is trying to nip it in the bud.

    As far as the complaints about timeliness of results, well I'm sure that we would all love to hear some actual workable suggestions on how to do it better, rather than just sitting back and complaining about the way others are doing it. I agree that it can be frustrating with delayed results, so my suggestion would simply be to get rid of the Sunday ceremony (which few people really want to attend anyway), and hand out the trophies at the drivers meeting before the next race.
  7. TRichards

    TRichards Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Location:
    El Cajon, CA
    I think they need the 2 week grace period to see all the videos on you tube before posting "Official Results". there are now thousands of eyes to witness infractions now. Its not just the media covering the race its all the spectators whose camera phones catch infractions now. Example Rob Mac pitting on the highway. Do you think he would have been caught if there wasn't a you tube of it. The key word is "caught" because he was stopping on the highway for some reason involving a tire. So that technically is a penalty. What I don't understand is that apparently you have to be 1/4 mile from the course but doesn't BFG and Baja Pits etc have their pits on the highway? I was with BFG 1 at the 1000 last year and right on the side of the highway was the pit. Is that illegal now?
  8. EBryant

    EBryant Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Location:
    Cave Creek, AZ
    This isnt NASCAR where the penalties are determined by a teams plan for a championship...at least I hope that's not how they are determined.

    As lame as the DQ is for RG, he couldnt care less. He's in it to win it. 5th or last is the same thing.

    Maybe the late decisions have to do with an extra week lounging on the Baja beaches before heading back North to finish working.
  9. randy s

    randy s Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Location:
    el cajon, ca
    for me, i'm miffed at stopping in the middle of the highway for fuel when you must know that it's against the rules. it seems like some of these penalties are due to people not being very smart or they're just arrogant..especially multiple highway infractions for speeding. hey, most of the winners didn't speed on the highway. what part of the rule was it that you didn't understand if you were nailed more than once? was it that you were sure they didn't mean you or what? i guess what i'm trying to say is that to me, some folks were penalized for just being stoopid more than anything else. and i also think score should either refine their reviewing of possible penalties or pre post a date when final results are in instead of having awards ceremonies the day after the race with a possibility that the results were tainted. bottom line is still that rules are rules and you gotta follow em' and not whine if you don't and get popped..like old shakespeare and them used to say, "to thine own self be true".
    1 person likes this.
  10. alloyz

    alloyz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Location:
    Agoura Hills, CA
    Perhaps all racers should consider that everything they do on the race course could be shown to the world, even in the most remote stretches of Baja.
    1 person likes this.
  11. fishd00d

    fishd00d What A Joke

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Location:
    San Marcos, CA
    Someone posted earlier that the truck could not physically move since the tire was wrapped around the axle so much. And from the looks of the video I totally believe it. So give them a break.
  12. mexracer10

    mexracer10 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Location:
    san diego Ca
    if the truck could not move how did it get there in the first place?
    It does not matter deleted post was point less. Carry on
  13. cusico

    cusico Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    Location:
    murrieta, ca
    Checks!

    With the paybacks I see in Offroad versus the money spent to win, I much rather see the sanctioning bodies produce some badash unique trophies.
  14. Tipracer

    Tipracer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Location:
    So. CA
    So WTF ....If you blow a pit how the he## are you supposed to go back and make the pit......Its's a shame, does anyone know the specifics of the DQ's for going backwards, and what information was used as a basis for dqing people for chase vehicles going backwards...was this a video?
  15. chicken lips the ocho

    chicken lips the ocho Most Annoying RDC Poster FTW

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Location:
    in a van down by the river
    yup, it could of been ugly to if the chase truck and bike came together in this spot, the 2x bike ran out of gas on the chase truck went backwards to fill up the bike

    [video=youtube;1e_TzAm3bf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_TzAm3bf4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    [video=youtube;Qaqq8Ivmop0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaqq8Ivmop0&feature=player_embedded[/video]
  16. AZ7000'

    AZ7000' Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Flagstaff, AZ
    BITD driver meetings leave me with the impression that if you spit rock one onto the pavement at any road crossing then there is an issue
  17. Tom_Willis

    Tom_Willis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2001
    Location:
    18th Flr, Wilshire Blvd. L. A.

    First time I've seen a quote from Shakespeare on rdc.
  18. craigincali

    craigincali Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Location:
    A town called Hell
    How about if people just follow the frickin rules!?
  19. Ol' Curmudgeon

    Ol' Curmudgeon RDC's resident crackpot

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Location:
    The Cloud
    Number one rule is "rules are made to be broken."

    Never had this issue when all you needed was a Western union time stamp from Tijuana and a later one from La Paz.
  20. TRichards

    TRichards Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Location:
    El Cajon, CA
    Many years ago I was doing a pit up in the pine forest by Compadre Trail. There was an issue that we had to pit on the east side and the only way in was the race course. We did our pit and when the driver left the last thing he yelled was don't go backwards to get out. Well we were about 1/2 mile in and the brush was thick with no other way out we had to take the course all the way by El Rayo before we found an access road out. This was in the early 90's before GPS that had every road out mapped. We were a moving chicane and at times it was pretty scary but we didnt want to be a cause of a DQ. So this was an ongoing rule even back then and it applied to chasers also.

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