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vorra group T

Discussion in 'VORRA' started by y2kbaja, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. y2kbaja

    y2kbaja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    From Wes on Vorra.net

    "Trucks, Trucks, Trucks


    What do we do with all these TRUCKS????


    We’ve decided not to create a new Truck class. We’d rather create a new Truck RACE!

    VORRA, with the help of Samco Fabrication, would like to introduce the “Group T” Truck Series for the 2009 VORRA Race Season. One-part VORRA, one-part “Truck”, & one-part “Rally” we felt inspired to take a new approach.

    We’ve gone back and forth on what truck class rules to adopt, but the fact is, no one class really fits the diverse group of truck guys and gals out there. We started thinking; when you’re around a campfire working out your biceps, and your buddies all start arguing which limited truck class is King, who’s the best bet? Well, were planning to find out……………

    “Group T” will consist of trucks from a variety of truck disciplines in a shoot-out for bragging rights to the truck that does it all. If you’re not with us so far, let’s explain some ground rules:

    Class 7200 Bring It…..
    Class 1450 Bring It…..
    Class 6 Bring It…….
    Class 8 Bring It……
    Pro Truck Bring It……
    Trophy Lite Bring It……

    But don’t even think about mixing and matching. You only get to register under one category, and you’ll be held to the standard. We think that each one has its’ strengths, but funny thing is, they usually coexist with a weakness that opens the door for the next guys’ power play. Interesting isn’t it??

    Well, Samco thinks it worth 500 bucks to find out who will earn the crown if all the trucks went “head to head”. That being said, here’s the deal: eligible trucks will run under “Group T” and compete for a combined purse as well as have a shot at overall desert money. As an added bonus Samco will post a $500 “Group T” prize for the 2009 Yerington 300. The points series will also be something to see. Who will survive the desert as well as get things done at Prairie City in what could be the largest class, scratch that, I mean “Group” in VORRA?

    I know the Class 7 guys are freaking out right now but listen; Class 7 is still alive and well. The Class 7 trucks that have not outgrown the rulebook should race each other and continue to have a great time doing it. I should mention, Class 7 can jump in with the rest, but we’d like to see the purists have a chance to stick together as long as they like.

    Class 8’s and Trophy lites may also prefer to stick with their own, but hey, the invitation stands. Sorry Trophy Trucks, but this party does have its standards.

    Above is a brief summary of a concept that is still evolving to some extent. VORRA is excited to bring a new idea to the scene. Some skin in the game helps too. Thanks to Samco, now we can get serious. We’ll need to refine things moving forward, and I’m sure there will be questions. Think it over a bit, please help us perfect the concept, but most of all, get those trucks ready."
     
  2. DontHateClass8

    DontHateClass8 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    I cant wait:D... no but seriously:cool:
     
  3. HardCharger81

    HardCharger81 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Location:
    Elk Grove, CA
    I asked this on the vorra.net forum and I didn't get an answer.

    Will the trucks then be raced against eachother on the track (Praire City)
    Or will we all race in our respective classes, and all of this will be just on paper?
     
  4. Samco Fab

    Samco Fab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Reno NV
    I am speaking from my own understanding ( I am not the guy that writes the rules), but all these classes will race against each other. If you have a 7200 truck, you must fit that catagory in tech, but you line up next to say a 1450 truck, and a Protruck might be hunting you down:D

    All the trucks in Group T will be mixed together, once you pass tech, there will be no difference between any of the trucks, you race everyone in the class the same.

    The one thing not yet mentioned, is that I personally felt that the Protrucks should have to fit all the rules that are layed out to be a legal "Protruck", meaning that there are not "Prophy" trucks allowed. At the same time, the Protrucks should be allowed to run any tire manufacturer and wheel manufacturer, as long as the size is the same. Those poor guys have to change tire brands almost every year.
     
  5. y2kbaja

    y2kbaja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    But wouldn't the protrucks changing tires not make them a legal protruck? That is one of the rules in that class that can't be changed. And their rules are so stringent, who is going to enforce them? Not that we have protrucks racing.
     
  6. BCGIrish

    BCGIrish Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    This is going to be cool to watch at Prarie City. :)
     
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  7. Samco Fab

    Samco Fab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Reno NV
    Yes, it would not make them a legal Protruck, but it might make it easier on them, and make them want to race in Group T. It seems that the Protruck sancioning body changes tires every year, and that probably is hard for the guys with those trucks, and they probably have a bunch of last years tires laying around. If they could run any tire, it might make them more likely to race, but not make them really any faster. Everything else should be standard Protruck to keep them limited. I guess we all would have to police each other in the class. I might have to read up on Protrucks.....
     
  8. BFD RACING

    BFD RACING Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Location:
    Clovis Ca
    If you race group t do you still race in your class as well?
     
  9. Samco Fab

    Samco Fab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Reno NV
    No, Group T is the class, the rules for each specific class are just there for tech. You would have to fit the rule catagories in tech, and not mix and match rules for your own benefit.

    The cool thing about the class would be the larger group of trucks racing. Instead of a three truck class 8 group, and two class 6 trucks, and some rogue 1450 trucks running in class 7, you get an easy 10 car class if you get a few trucks from down south coming up north, hell mabye even a Protruck or two. The idea was to draw people to come race, and be able to race in a bigger class.

    If you look at the rules for each one of the classes in the group, there is not one class with a clear cut advantage, you could win with any one of those classes that fit in Group T.

    I think this is all still in the idea stage, and still up for flexibility. We were the brainchild of the idea, and wanted to support the growth of Vorra, but by no means are we the ones that make any sort of decision. We were just offering a few bucks to try to get a big class together and have some good racing, and that racing will probably include a couple of Group T trucks from our shop:D
     
  10. BCGIrish

    BCGIrish Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Something to remember is it is not the Tech Inspectors job to find you a class or ensure you fit into that class. They normally only check safety.

    I completely agree with this. Really if you look at the 1400/1450's in MDR you will see that just because someone has a V8 doesn't mean anything. The 2 races we went to last year were won by smaller trucks, I believe one was a Tacoma and the other was a Ranger. I know at Vorra races we have passed some of the class 8's before so the winners aren't really the ones with the horses, like all desert races it comes down to attrition.
     
  11. y2kbaja

    y2kbaja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    never mind.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2008
    (+1) 1 person likes this.
  12. DontHateClass8

    DontHateClass8 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Troy,
    That edit is killing me!!! Tell us what you really think. I think that everyone here does or should respect your opinion on this matter.

    I think that this is a great way to open VORRA up to guys with allready built trucks that don't fit the SCORE rules to a "T". Hopefully we can talk some folks, who are sick of racing the same tracks in mojave, into driving up north. As everyone knows these classes are growing down south. Also kevin is total right about attrition, any truck that is built and raced well will have as good of a chance as any in this class to win.
     
  13. y2kbaja

    y2kbaja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I've been biting my tongue long enough on this subject.

    Most of the trucks in 2008 (21 of them) are legal. Some of them are illegal in Score class 7. 3 of them are Jeepspeeds including the points champion. 3 of them are Trophy Lites. More than 1/2 of them are front running contenders.

    Changing the Score class 7 rules to make the illegal trucks legal creates a "bastard" class that is no good anywhere but Vorra.

    I do not agree with the Group T the way it's stated and I talked to Samco the other day about why. It's a hodge podge of trucks in a class with no rules. Yes, the group says you have to have a class but with the variety of trucks in the classes there are a set of rules for every truck, even trucks that don't fit a class. Once again, creating a "bastard" class.

    My opinion. Two classes: Heavy metal, includes all trucks with v8's and Mini metal, includes all trucks with v6 or less. Make Group T a side bet. Either $50 additional or take $50 out of the payback and put it into the Group T purse plus the additional monies from Samco and wherever else. With up to 20 trucks at each desert race that could mean an extra $1500.00 in the group T purse ($50 x 20 + $500 from Samco).

    As far as class rules. Vorra shouldn't change anything with any class rules. Score has a rulebook that will fit any and all vehicles (except V8 rangers, sorry). It takes 3 cars to make a class. If you are not legal in class 7 and if there are 3 trucks that aren't you make your own class whether is be Score class 6 (BITD 7200), 1450 or whatever. TL's fit in class 6. If there are not 3 trucks to make up a class then you race either class 1 or sportsman.
     
  14. y2kbaja

    y2kbaja Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    FYI, trucks and racers from down south will NOT drive north for no matter how much money we throw at them. Some 1450 racers don't even own trailers.
     
  15. Samco Fab

    Samco Fab Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Location:
    Reno NV
    You say:

    "I do not agree with the Group T the way it's stated and I talked to Samco the other day about why. It's a hodge podge of trucks in a class with no rules. Yes, the group says you have to have a class but with the variety of trucks in the classes there are a set of rules for every truck, even trucks that don't fit a class. Once again, creating a "bastard" class."



    What is hodge podge about keeping rules the same as all other sancioning bodies, and not making specific rules for Vorra. Having a Heavy Metal class with big V8 vehicles, and a Mini Metal class still leaves the people with legal Class 7 trucks at a disadvantage, and it would make the Class 6/ 7200 trucks have a big advantage.

    Also, you mention the Group T rules allow trucks that dont fit a class, what trucks are those? All the trucks must fit a class in Group T, and not mix and match rules. If there is a problem with one of the specific classes running, and having too much of an advantage, that would be a good discussion. To say that nobody would ever come up and run up North is just the kind of thinking that keeps people from doing just so.

    You told me that you felt that a V8 truck is at a big advantage over any of the V6 trucks. If class 6 / 7200 rules are adopted in any class, the fast guys in that class should be running at the same speed as a fast class 8 truck.

    I understand the fear of running against V8 trucks, but it is all about power to weight ratio. A 7200 truck that weighs 4000 lbs, and has a 500 HP Busch V6 has the same power to weight ratio as a 5600 lb class 8 truck with 700 HP. The 7200 truck does not have a frame and is lower, so it should be faster. Should a truck that could compete for the overall be in Mini Metal?

    What about Pro Trucks? I think the Protruck is the speed standard that a 7200 and a class 8 truck should be aiming at. That is just my opinion. Without saying that a Pro Truck would never ever go to a Vorra race, what is others opinion?

    You want to not change the class 7 rules, but you still want to make them run with 7200 trucks in Mini Metal?? Is Mini Metal another side bet or a class?

    Would Heavy Metal include Trophy Trucks, or Rangers with V8's?
     
  16. HardCharger81

    HardCharger81 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Location:
    Elk Grove, CA

    Awesome....:rolleyes:
     
  17. billymanfroy

    billymanfroy Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2001
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Curt asked me to respond, but I don't really have a lot to add...

    I personally prefer to leave it alone (stick to SCORE rules), but would have no problem running against Class 8, Protrucks, or Trophy Lites.

    That said, IF we fix our truck, it will be strictly 7200/Class 6 with no frame rails except what's under the cab. It'll be 85" wide and a LOT lower and lighter than it used to be. It'll weigh in at ~3,000-3,200 lbs with 500+ hp. I'm not scared of V8, back-halfed 1400/1450-style trucks, I just think that THEY are the ones who chose to build a truck that doesn't fit the rulebook, and it shouldn't penalize those who built within the rules. We've raced my truck (and won) in Class 1 before and have no problem doing it again if the "T" thing doesn't happen.

    I'll happily run whatever class my truck fits in, and if there DOES turn out to be a steadier field (You can't really top last year in 7), and higher paybacks, then we just might go for it.

    I applaud the efforts of Samco and Wes for trying to figure something out that's best for everyone, but I do honestly believe it will tend to alienate and discourage those on a lower budget (7s, 7SX, 7) who are just trying to race in a class somewhat affordable and still be competitive against similar trucks. Only time will tell if it actually kills the guys like Fuhs, KC ,etc., but they were and are IMHO the heart of VORRA's mini-truck class, and the closest thing to the original intent.
     
  18. jackassracing89

    jackassracing89 Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Location:
    Sacramento Ca
    well said Billy.....
     
  19. DontHateClass8

    DontHateClass8 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    What trucks that don't fit in a class??? Are you talking about the Pro-truck thing (tires)??? If so, I think that they should only be able to race in group-t if they stick to the existing rules of the class...all of the rules.

    Now that they might have a class to race in up here... they might be motivated to ask to borrow one from the dude that they hang out with in Glamis. kidding. but seriously.

    I really don't understand how legit class 7 trucks are going to get the short end of the stick. If anything this should only help them weed out those questionably legal trucks that get grouped in with them, as I understand has happend in the past, just because they are a mini truck. So they shouldn't be alienated, they should be more motivated knowing that they are running their trucks against similar trucks.

    If you are down with group T, you know that it is not the size of your truck that matters, it's how you race it!.... I recomend this for the official Group T catch phrase.
     
  20. TMW Racing

    TMW Racing New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Is there a schedule availible for VORRA?
     

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